Uthibitisho wa uwepo wa Mungu kisayansi

Venus Star · May 3, 2023

Kentsuhcy Wrudate said:
Yes naamini. Ila imani hii huwez kufananisha na ya dini. Maana kama kutakua na observation nyingine zlizofanywa ikaonekana kuna hoja nyingine yenye mashiko basi ntaamin hio

Ndugu yangu sidhani kama science unaielewa vizuri.
Hebu nikusaidie kitu kimoja ambacho ukikielewa hutaweza hata kuwa na Tatizo na mtu.
1. Science inatafuta kujibu maswali ya How but not Why questions.

2. Dini inatafuta kujibu maswali ya why but not How questions.

Ukizijua hizi tofauti hutakuwa na shida. Religion inaleta utatuzi wa Moral lakini science haihusiani na hicho.

Ni lazima to apliciate each other.
Nimejaribu kufuatilia comments zako kuona unatuletea solutions lakini nimeambulia malalamiko ukiwalalamikia wengine.

Kama wao wanaamini hivyo kinachokuuma nini? Maana wewe hujaleta mtazamo tofauti ili waufuate. Zaidi sana na wewe umeleta imani nyingine.

tzhosts · May 3, 2023

Venus Star said:
Asante kwa maelezo mazuri sana.
Hatuwezi kuacha kudadisi eti kwamba tu siwezi kuwa na kumbukumbu ya namna nilivyokuwa kwenye tumbo.

Also ukisoma introduction yangu nimeeleza kuwa siyo kwamba naongelea kiumbe anayeitwa Mungu bali naongelea Existence which is a powerful existence beyond our reasoning.

Sasa tunajaribu kuangalia kwenye science which control everything and we don't know. Unakuja kugundua kuwa ni Energy.
Sasa hapo makosa yangu ni nini?

Mkuu,huu ni mjadili na mimi nimeweka ty tone la hoja.Mimi binafsi sitafuta uthibitisho wa kuwepo au kutokuwepo kwa Mungu maana najua kwamba gap ya knowledge iliyopo kati yangu n aliyeniumba ni kubwa sana.So hua nonaga huu mjadala kama mjadala tata kama vile lilivyo hili swali linahusu Uwezo wa Mungu ambalo linauliza hivi "Je Mungu anaweza Kila KITU(Muweza yote/Omnipotent)?Je anaweza kuumba Jiwe ambalo hawezi kulibeba?
Hili na maswali kama haya yanaonesha jinsi ambavyo Upeowa mwanadamu ulivyo mfupi.

Venus Star · May 3, 2023

tzhosts said:
Mkuu,huu ni mjadili na mimi nimeweka ty tone la hoja.Mimi binafsi sitafuta uthibitisho wa kuwepo au kutokuwepo kwa Mungu maana najua kwamba gap ya knowledge iliyopo kati yangu n aliyeniumba ni kubwa sana.So hua nonaga huu mjadala kama mjadala tata kama vile lilivyo hili swali linahusu Uwezo wa Mungu ambalo linauliza hivi "Je Mungu anaweza Kila KITU(Muweza yote/Omnipotent)?Je anaweza kuumba Jiwe ambalo hawezi kulibeba?
Hili na maswali kama haya yanaonesha jinsi ambavyo Upeowa mwanadamu ulivyo mfupi.

Tatizo linakuja katika uelewa tu. Tunataka kuelewa mambo kulingana na matukio tunayoyaona.

Hii idea ya kuumba na kuumbwa ndiyo inayoleta haya yote kiasi cha kufikiria Mungu kuumba jiwe zito asiloliweza kulibeba.

Lakini tungeanza kwanza kwa kufikiria kuwa energy as the thing control our universe tungeanza kubadili namna ya kuwaza na kuondokana na mawazo ya kuumba na kuumbwa.

Inabidi tuanze kujifunza how energy involved in moral things ndipo hapo tutaanza kuelewa how existence is.

Siwapingi wanaoamini uumbaji, lakini tunatakiwa kufanya modification kidogo kutokana na mabadiliko ya science and technology ili kuweza kukaribiana na uhalisia.

Asante.

fazili · May 3, 2023

SatCitAnanda said:
Kwenye ulimwengu ambao mchakato wake ni wa vurugu na usio na mpango wala lengo (kama wakana Mungu wanavyodai), hamna nafasi ya kupata ukweli wala maarifa kwani tunakuwa tumefungwa kwenye mchakato wa visababishi vya kimwili (physical determinism).

Yani kama tuchukue kopo tuweke herufi tatu ndani A,B,C tulitingishe kisha tuangalie all the possible combinations, ambazo zitakuwa ni ABC, ACB, BAC, BCA, CAB, CBA. Mtu ataweza kusema combination sahihi hapo ni ipi? Kwa misingi gani mtu aseme ABC ndo sahihi?

Ndo sawa na Ulimwengu huu, kama kilichopo ni matter, space and time peke yake na hakuna kingine kinachoishi nje ya hivi basi hakuna chochote tunachoweza kusema ni cha maana au kweli, kila kitu kinakuwa kweli au kila kitu kinakuwa uongo.

Mawazo yetu yote, hesabu zetu zote, kanuni zetu za mantiki zote ni batili. Ziwe kweli kwa misingi ipi? Wakati tumeishafungwa kwenye mchakato wa visababishi vya kimwili (physical determinism)?

So hata tuseme Mungu yupo, hayupo, kuua ni sawa sio sawa, kutesa wengine ni sawa sio sawa, useme 1+1 =4 na 1+1=2, useme mama yako ana miaka miwili wakati wewe una miaka 40 n.k vyote vinakuwa ukweli au vyote uongo.

Mpaka hapa, tukubaliane kwanza na mkana Mungu kuwa hatuwezi kupata ukweli wa jambo lolote lile ila kutoka kwa chanzo kingine kilicho nje na ambacho hakitegemei ulimwengu huu wa time, space, and matter, ambacho kinasimama thabiti na milele na hakibadiliki, ambacho ndo chanzo chetu cha ufahamu na hata mioyo yetu wote itashuhudia kuwa viwango vyake ni vya kweli na ndo msingi wetu wa kupimia ukweli wa mambo.

Proof of God

(Usomaji wa dakika 25) PRAISE OUR LORD JEHOVAH!!! PRAISE JESUS!!! Whatever name you have for him (him being a symbol for Order), we all recognize him. It took me being a Mum and going through crap to come to this realization. Ikanibidi nikubaliane na maneno niliyasikia kwa Dr. Jordan...

www.jamiiforums.com

Wewe ni determinist. Mimi naamini ulimwengu unaweza kusomeka na kueleweka but with time. Mambo mengi ya ajabu ya ulimwengu huu ambayo hatukuyajua zamani sasa yanajulikana vizuri. Ipo siku yote yanayotufumba leo yatakuwa wazi.

SatCitAnanda · May 3, 2023

fazili said:
Wewe ni determinist. Mimi naamini ulimwengu unaweza kusomeka na kueleweka but with time. Mambo mengi ya ajabu ya ulimwengu huu ambayo hatukuyajua zamani sasa yanajulikana vizuri. Ipo siku yote yanayotufumba leo yatakuwa wazi.

Soma vizuri mimi sio atheist wala determinist.

Falsafa ya ukana Mungu inajifunga kimwili (physically deterministic) na inajiua yenyewe (self-destructive).

Yoyote anayosema mkana Mungu ni kama mauzauza kutoka kwenye komputya isiyo na programu.

Ukipata muda soma👇🏾

Proof of God

(Usomaji wa dakika 25) PRAISE OUR LORD JEHOVAH!!! PRAISE JESUS!!! Whatever name you have for him (him being a symbol for Order), we all recognize him. It took me being a Mum and going through crap to come to this realization. Ikanibidi nikubaliane na maneno niliyasikia kwa Dr. Jordan...

www.jamiiforums.com

Kentsuhcy Wrudate · May 3, 2023

Venus Star said:
Ndugu yangu sidhani kama science unaielewa vizuri.
Hebu nikusaidie kitu kimoja ambacho ukikielewa hutaweza hata kuwa na Tatizo na mtu.
1. Science inatafuta kujibu maswali ya How but not Why questions.

2. Dini inatafuta kujibu maswali ya why but not How questions.

Ukizijua hizi tofauti hutakuwa na shida. Religion inaleta utatuzi wa Moral lakini science haihusiani na hicho.

Ni lazima to apliciate each other.
Nimejaribu kufuatilia comments zako kuona unatuletea solutions lakini nimeambulia malalamiko ukiwalalamikia wengine.

Kama wao wanaamini hivyo kinachokuuma nini? Maana wewe hujaleta mtazamo tofauti ili waufuate. Zaidi sana na wewe umeleta imani nyingine.

Dini haifanyi utafiti wowote blaza... sanasana dini ipo kwaajili ya kutishia watu. Utaskia usipofanya hiki utachomwa moto.. bs[emoji706]

Mfano mm nilipokua darasa la saba chalii mmoja wa kiislam tulikua tunasoma nae alikua anatupanga kua ukichana quran unageuka kua panya. Sasa mm nikaona ni too much uongo kwahy kumuhakikishia kua ni uongo, nikachana...

Ila kumbe alikua sahihi, nikageuka kua panya;

Lol

MWANAHARAMU · May 3, 2023

hateeb10 said:
Mkuu haina haja ya kuzunguka sana.... Umesema ogani zimejitengeneza zenyewe.
Nimekuuliza unaweza kuthibitisha?

Tokea uzaliwe ushawahi kuona ogani zikijitengeneza na Kuunda kiumbe?

Au siku hizi Ogani hazijitengenezi tena?

Mimi siamini kama ogani zilizopo kwenye miili yetu kwa mpangilio huu zimejitengeneza zenyewe bila akili/ujuzi kutumika.

Kuhusu Mitochondria nilikujibu kwamba ni Miongoni mwa component muhimu kwenye seli ya kiumbe hai inayosupport uzalishaji wa nishati kwenye seli hususani kwa ajili respiration... Sasa unavyosema kwanini ipo kwenye seli za viumbe sijakupata lengo lako.

Tuendelee kuelimishana.

Ndo ujue Mitochondria haikuwa part ya seli kama inavyoonekana leo ilikuwa niseparate cell.
ndo ujue hakuna kiumbwe kilumbwa hapa duniani.

Kama ilivyo cell haikuundwa na muunganiko wa seli zaidi ya moja ndio zikaundwa organ.
Auhitaji kuwa mwenye akili kulijua hili.

MWANAHARAMU · May 3, 2023

Venus Star said:
Ndugu yangu hii issue ya mitochondria wengi hawajui. Kwamba ipo na DNA yake
Hilo swali mtu aliyebobea pekee anaweza kulijibu.

The most widely accepted theory for how mitochondria entered eukaryotic cells is called endosymbiosis. This theory proposes that billions of years ago, a free-living bacterium capable of aerobic respiration was engulfed by a primitive eukaryotic cell, which lacked the ability to produce its own energy.

Instead of being digested by the host cell, the bacterium survived inside the cell and formed a mutually beneficial relationship with its host. The bacterium provided the host cell with a new source of energy in the form of ATP, while the host cell provided the bacterium with protection and nutrients.

Over time, the bacterium became dependent on the host cell and lost some of its ability to function independently. Its DNA eventually became integrated into the host cell's nuclear genome, and many of its genes were transferred to the nucleus or lost altogether.

This process of endosymbiosis is thought to have occurred multiple times in the evolution of eukaryotic cells, with mitochondria being the most well-known example. Chloroplasts, the organelles responsible for photosynthesis in plants, are also thought to have originated through endosymbiosis.

Mkuu kuanzia leo, utakuwa mmoja ya watu ninao waheshimu humu, upo vizuri na knowledge ya kutosha

hateeb10 · May 3, 2023

IFAC said:
Ndo ujue Mitochondria haikuwa part ya seli kama inavyoonekana leo ilikuwa niseparate cell.
ndo ujue hakuna kiumbwe kilumbwa hapa duniani.

Kama ilivyo cell haikuundwa na muunganiko wa seli zaidi ya moja ndio zikaundwa organ.
Auhitaji kuwa mwenye akili kulijua hili.

Hayo ni Maneno tu, bila uthibitisho wowote.

Unaweza kuthibitisha kwamba mitochondria haikua part ya cell?

Unaweza kuthibitisha, hakuna kiumbe kiliumbwa hapa duniani?

Au Umeamini tu.

MWANAHARAMU · May 3, 2023

hateeb10 said:
Hayo ni Maneno tu, bila uthibitisho wowote.

Unaweza kuthibitisha kwamba mitochondria haikua part ya cell?

Unaweza kuthibitisha, hakuna kiumbe kiliumbwa hapa duniani?

Au Umeamini tu.

Nipe sifa za seli?
Kwa nini unadhani MItochondria ni sehemu ya seli?
Wadhani kwa nini wataalamu wansema sio sehemu ya seli hapo kabla?

SatCitAnanda · May 3, 2023

Venus Star said:
This theory proposes that billions of years ago, a free-living bacterium capable of aerobic respiration was engulfed by a primitive eukaryotic cell, which lacked the ability to produce its own energy.

Instead of being digested by the host cell, the bacterium survived inside the cell and formed a mutually beneficial relationship with its host. The bacterium provided the host cell with a new source of energy in the form of ATP, while the host cell provided the bacterium with protection and nutrients.

Over time, the bacterium became dependent on the host cell and lost some of its ability to function independently. Its DNA eventually became integrated into the host cell's nuclear genome, and many of its genes were transferred to the nucleus or lost altogether.

This process of endosymbiosis is thought to have occurred multiple times in the evolution of eukaryotic cells, with mitochondria being the most well-known example. Chloroplasts, the organelles responsible for photosynthesis in plants, are also thought to have originated through endosymbiosis.

Creation story from a lab scientist 😂. Tell me how faith doesn't work to accept this

Kentsuhcy Wrudate · May 3, 2023

hateeb10 said:
Hayo ni Maneno tu, bila uthibitisho wowote.

Unaweza kuthibitisha kwamba mitochondria haikua part ya cell?

Unaweza kuthibitisha, hakuna kiumbe kiliumbwa hapa duniani?

Au Umeamini tu.

Life probably didn't start as a single cell. Bali millions/billions of cells being formed at the same time. Unaweza kutengeneza cell kutoka kwa non living matter kwa ku dry-heat amino acids kutengeneza proteins. In nature, hii probably ilitengenezwa na jua ktk vidimbwi vdg vdg vya fukwe za vyanzo vya maji (tidal pools)... cell zinatengenezeka kutokana na hizo proteins. Sasa hizi seli ambazo zina ukubwa takriban ukubwa wa bacteria, zinaweza kumetabolize, kurespond ktk stimuli na kuzaliana. At this point hizi seli unaweza kuhesabu kua zina uhai tayar.

Hii inaweza kua proved hata lab... [emoji854]

Venus Star · May 3, 2023

SatCitAnanda said:
Creation story from a lab scientist 😂. Tell me how faith doesn't work to accept this

Sijakuelewa ndugu yangu hapa.

hateeb10 · May 3, 2023

IFAC said:
Nipe sifa za seli?
Kwa nini unadhani MItochondria ni sehemu ya seli?
Wadhani kwa nini wataalamu wansema sio sehemu ya seli hapo kabla?

Nimekuomba uthibitisho, bado hujatoa Mkuu.

Ipo hivi, Hao wataalamu wenyewe walio propose hiyo theory wanasema.."It's believed that Billions of years ago.........."

Kitu ambacho kinamaanisha sio kwamba ni fact 100% bali wao wanaamini hivyo.

So, kama una uthibitisho wa Imani yako kwamba Billions of years ago Mitochondria haikua part of cell tunaomba utuletee.

Ahsante.

hateeb10 · May 3, 2023

Kentsuhcy Wrudate said:
Life probably didn't start as a single cell. Bali millions/billions of cells being formed at the same time. Unaweza kutengeneza cell kutoka kwa non living matter kwa ku dry-heat amino acids kutengeneza proteins. In nature, hii probably ilitengenezwa na jua ktk vidimbwi vdg vdg vya fukwe za vyanzo vya maji (tidal pools)... cell zinatengenezeka kutokana na hizo proteins. Sasa hizi seli ambazo zina ukubwa takriban ukubwa wa bacteria, zinaweza kumetabolize, kurespond ktk stimuli na kuzaliana. At this point hizi seli unaweza kuhesabu kua zina uhai tayar.

Hii inaweza kua proved hata lab... [emoji854]

Una uthibitisho kwamba miaka Billions iliyopita, Mitochondria haikua sehemu ya seli?

Scars · May 3, 2023

safuher said:
mkuu habari ya siku asee ?
Upo ?

Hivi wanaosema energy hauimbwi,wanakusudia haiumbwi na nani ?

Fresh sana....

Na chochote

Kentsuhcy Wrudate · May 3, 2023

hateeb10 said:
Una uthibitisho kwamba miaka Billions iliyopita, Mitochondria haikua sehemu ya seli?

Haikua, kwasababu ilitokea wapi? Kuna haja ya uthibitisho hapa au ni kutumia tu common sense?

hateeb10 · May 3, 2023

Kentsuhcy Wrudate said:
Haikua, kwasababu ilitokea wapi? Kuna haja ya uthibitisho hapa au ni kutumia tu common sense?

Sawa, kwahiyo uthibitisho hauna..... Bali unatumia common sense si ndiyo?

Kentsuhcy Wrudate · May 3, 2023

hateeb10 said:
Sawa, kwahiyo uthibitisho hauna..... Bali unatumia common sense si ndiyo?

Thibitisha kama mm nilizaliwa...
Same question.

hateeb10 · May 3, 2023

Kentsuhcy Wrudate said:
Thibitisha kama mm nilizaliwa...
Same question.

Ume compare vitu ambavyo havifanani kabisa.

Sema tu,... Huna uthibitisho.

Waliopropose theory hawana uthibitisho,... Wewe Muumini wao utautolea wapi

Uthibitisho wa uwepo wa Mungu kisayansi

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