Vita vya Kagera: Nini chanzo? Kulikuwa na ulazima?

Vita vya Kagera: Nini chanzo? Kulikuwa na ulazima?

mgt software said:
kila mtawala ana yake, na kila mtu ana ubaya wake na uzuri wake, wewe mbona unachuna albino, fisadi, Nyerere hakuyaacha haya, ya kuchunana ngozi, ubaya wa Nyerere mnauona sasa hivi anapokaribia kuwa Mtakatifu? yeye hakuwa Mtakavitu kama kizazi iki cha JK, mtu kaajiriwa jana Kesho ana nyumba mbili na Vague.Mwacheni apumzike, najua aliwachukia wahaya sana kwasababu za ubinafsi wao.
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Binafsi sijakuelewa, nani anayechuna ngozi? Hujaweka wazi. Hebu weka maneno yako yaeleweke.
 
chitambikwa said:
Si kubali hata kidogo hayo maelezo yalitungwa uganda na baadhi ya askari waliotaka kuja kumpindua nyerere baada ya vita ya kagera
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tuambie sasa wewe unachojua kuhusu hiyo vita na usituletee story za iddi amini kula nyama za watu...
 
Jumakidogo said:
Binafsi sijakuelewa, nani anayechuna ngozi? Hujaweka wazi. Hebu weka maneno yako yaeleweke.
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Unafahamu vzr historia ya amini na chanzo cha vita ya kagera?

Conspiracy theories haziwezi badili ukweli...,

Mnyonge(nyerere) mnyongeni lakn haki yake mpeni.., chokochoko alizianza amini.., msiandike vitu vya uongo na wakati unajua ni uongo...

wanajeshi wa tz walipata msaada mkubwa wa kiintelijensia kutoka kwa wananchi wa uganda wakati vita inaendelea..., kwhy unaposema wananchi wa ug walikua wanamkubali sana amini, nashindwa kuelewa unachomaanisha!

Amini alikubali ndege ilobeba mateka wa kiisraeli washikiliwe uganda, kuna rais gani mwingine africa aliwah kufanya kitu kama hyo?? Huoni sifa mbaya alizopewa na nyerere zilistahili?
 
Ndahani said:
Haahaa! Pilipili usiyoila inakuwashia nini? Do we know Amin that well? Au ndio hadithi za gahawa gahawa? Nimeanza kuamini kabisa, in Africa, there are so many confused people. They just wake up everyday without knowing the purpose of being alive and the meaning to work for. They are driven by whatever that would come on their way....tuna safari ndefu sana ya kwenda.
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Mie nimekaa sana Uganda ktk miji ya Mbarara, Kampala na Masaka. Ukiongea na wazee wengi wanasema afadhali ya Idd Amin mara kumi kuliko Mu7. Na pia wanasema kuwa Tanzania ndio nchi iliyoanzisha ugaidi dhidi ya utawala wa Amin kwa kuwasaidia watu wenye asili ya Kinyarwanda kuitawala Uganda. Na wakafikia kunambia kuwa Mwalim Nyerere alikuwa Mtutsi na alikuwa akiwasaidia nduguze kutawala Uganda. Waganda asilia ambao ni Baganda, Banyoro, Batoro na Bakiga wanasema Tanzania ndio iliowaponza mpaka leo wanatawaliwa na wageni.
 
Nduli, Idd Amin Dada alijaribu kuleta ushoga wake akala kichapo, Mzee wa Kifimbo sio mchezo, habari ndio hiyo...

Alichokoza hakuchokoza haina maana sana cha muhimu ni kwamba alijifanya ana msuli badala ya kuomba tu msamaha mambo yaishe:lol:
 
Jumakidogo said:
Tunaendelea kuusaka ukweli, lisemwalo lipo, Amin hakuwa chizi wa kukurupuka na kuvamia bila sababu, mbona hakuvamia Zaire, Sudani, au Kenya?
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Who killed Hans Poppe and took the remains to Uganda in 1971? Anyway, mbona hata Osama alikuwa na wafuasi, itakuwa Amini!!
 
IHOLOMELA said:
Mie nimekaa sana Uganda ktk miji ya Mbarara, Kampala na Masaka. Ukiongea na wazee wengi wanasema afadhali ya Idd Amin mara kumi kuliko Mu7. Na pia wanasema kuwa Tanzania ndio nchi iliyoanzisha ugaidi dhidi ya utawala wa Amin kwa kuwasaidia watu wenye asili ya Kinyarwanda kuitawala Uganda. Na wakafikia kunambia kuwa Mwalim Nyerere alikuwa Mtutsi na alikuwa akiwasaidia nduguze kutawala Uganda. Waganda asilia ambao ni Baganda, Banyoro, Batoro na Bakiga wanasema Tanzania ndio iliowaponza mpaka leo wanatawaliwa na wageni.
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Kitu ambacho hatukijui ni kuwa Nyerere has participated in putting in power many other African leaders, apart from Museveni. Mbona hayo hamyaongei?

By the way, during Nyerere's time the world world was in tension as a result of cold war. To make decisions and lead during those times, were different with what we see now.

Mbabe wa leo sio mwenye silaha nyingi...ni mwenye uchumi ulioimara. Msitudanganye hapa hali ya uchumi wa Uganda ilikuwa nzuri enzi za Amini. Kwanini aliwafukuza wahindi?By the way, after all these years, why do we fail to make the difference in economy? Is it because of Nyerere or it is because we are failures ourselves?

How many times Amini was reported to OAU with regard to boarder violations with Tanzania? Nani aliianza vita ya Uganda, maana Gen. Tumainiel Kiwelu angesema kama kamanda wa kwanza kuanza operations za kumfukuza Amini, ilikuwaje wakati wanajenga daraja lililobomolewa ili kupambana na Amini.

I learn from the history so that I could contront my presence and face the future....some guys are busy to be doomed by it!!
 
Nashangaa watu huwa wanatumia video za Idd Amin ambazo zimeigizwa ili kutuaminisha kuwa vitu vilivyoigizwa humo mdiyo matendo ya Idd Amini. Kuamini maigizo huo ni ujinga mkubwa.
 
IHOLOMELA said:
Mie nimekaa sana Uganda ktk miji ya Mbarara, Kampala na Masaka. Ukiongea na wazee wengi wanasema afadhali ya Idd Amin mara kumi kuliko Mu7. Na pia wanasema kuwa Tanzania ndio nchi iliyoanzisha ugaidi dhidi ya utawala wa Amin kwa kuwasaidia watu wenye asili ya Kinyarwanda kuitawala Uganda. Na wakafikia kunambia kuwa Mwalim Nyerere alikuwa Mtutsi na alikuwa akiwasaidia nduguze kutawala Uganda. Waganda asilia ambao ni Baganda, Banyoro, Batoro na Bakiga wanasema Tanzania ndio iliowaponza mpaka leo wanatawaliwa na wageni.
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Mkuu maelezo yako kwamba Nyerere alikuwa Mtutsi na aliwasaidia Watutsi wenzake kuitawala Uganda yanaonyesha hata kama uliishi huko,hauijui historia ya makabila ya Uganda. Waganda asilia unaozungumzia ni akina nani? Na wasio asilia ambao wanatawala Uganda ni akina nani? Hivi umewahi soma historia kuhusu Hima Empire?
 
- Wakuu JF heshima mbele sana, naomba kuuliza tena hivi kulikuwa ana ulazima wa kupiagana Vita na Idd Amin mpaka kumuondoa kwenye madaraka nchini mwake? Yeye alivunja sheria za kimataifa kwa kutuingilia ndani ya mipaka yetu, je na sisi kwa kuvuka mipaka yake pia mbona kama tulijivua nguo kama yeye, yaani tukawa two wrongs!

- I mean kumuondoa tu kwenye ardhi yetu ndio sheria za kimataifa zinavyosema, lakini kwenda mpaka kumuondoa kwenye uongozi wa Taifa lake mbona kama we went too far, na historia ikaishia kutusuta maana tukamuweka Obote, akaishia kuondolewa tena na mwingine, au Great Thinkers mnasema je?

- Na wale mabingwa wa Conspiracy Theories karibuni sana!!



William.
 
William inategemea unatasfiri vipi hizo sheria za kimataifa. Kwa nini Marekani na nchi nyingine toka NATO waingie gharama kubwa kwenda kupigana na Teleban Afghanistan? Teleban wako ndani ya ardhi ya Marekani?
 
William,

Jibu rahisi ni kwamba hatukuwa na sababu ya kumhifadhi Obote. Hatukuwa na sababu ya kuwa na uhusiano hasimu na Iddi Amin. Iddi Amin was the best thing that ever happened to Africa and Uganda. We should have loved him and not make war on him. Simply Nyerere was mad to fight with Amin. Tulifanya makosa makubwa sana. Nadhani hapo utaridhika. Anzisha sasa topic nyingine tumkosoe na kumdadavua Nyerere.

Ngoja nikusaidie; Nyerere and African liberation. Big mistake. Nyerere and Pan Africanism: ndoto ya mchana. Nyerere and the Development of Man: it will never happen. Niendelee?
 
W. J. Malecela said:
- Wakuu JF heshima mbele sana, naomba kuuliza tena hivi kulikuwa ana ulazima wa kupiagana Vita na Idd Amin mpaka kumuondoa kwenye madaraka nchini mwake? Yeye alivunja sheria za kimataifa kwa kutuingilia ndani ya mipaka yetu, je na sisi kwa kuvuka mipaka yake pia mbona kama tulijivua nguo kama yeye, yaani tukawa two wrongs!

- I mean kumuondoa tu kwenye ardhi yetu ndio sheria za kimataifa zinavyosema, lakini kwenda mpaka kumuondoa kwenye uongozi wa Taifa lake mbona kama we went too far, na historia ikaishia kutusuta maana tukamuweka Obote, akaishia kuondolewa tena na mwingine, au Great Thinkers mnasema je?

- Na wale mabingwa wa Conspiracy Theories karibuni sana!!



William.
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William,

..baada ya vita na mazungumzo ya vikundi vya waganda yaliyofanyika Moshi, Raisi aliyefuatia wa Uganda alikuwa Prof.Yussuf Kironde Lule.

..Waziri wa mambo ya nje wa Tanzania aliyesimamia mazungumzo ya Moshi alikuwa Benjamin Mkapa.

..Prof.Yussuf Lule alikosana na wenzake ktk serikali, wakamtoa, na kumuweka, Godfrey Lukongwa Binaisi. Baadaye kukatokea mgogoro mwingine Uraisi ukakaimiwa na Paulo Muwanga.

..Apollo Milton Obote aliingia madarakani kupitia uchaguzi uliofanyika Uganda. Kwa msingi huo, kusema Mwalimu alimtoa Amini na kumpachika Obote, nadhani is a little stretching.
 
inatosha! message imefika!
Jasusi said:
William,

Jibu rahisi ni kwamba hatukuwa na sababu ya kumhifadhi Obote. Hatukuwa na sababu ya kuwa na uhusiano hasimu na Iddi Amin. Iddi Amin was the best thing that ever happened to Africa and Uganda. We should have loved him and not make war on him. Simply Nyerere was mad to fight with Amin. Tulifanya makosa makubwa sana. Nadhani hapo utaridhika. Anzisha sasa topic nyingine tumkosoe na kumdadavua Nyerere.

Ngoja nikusaidie; Nyerere and African liberation. Big mistake. Nyerere and Pan Africanism: ndoto ya mchana. Nyerere and the Development of Man: it will never happen. Niendelee?
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Zama za nyerere kukiwa na kiongozi wa nchi jirani anayetofautiana naye ideology tu ilikuwa kosa kubwa. Nyerere hakumpenda idi amin kwa kuwa alimuondoa madarakani obote ambaye walikuwa wanashabihiana katika ideology ya usoshalisti.

Angalia majirani engine walokuwa na mrengo wa kimagharibi kama banda na kenyata hawakuwa na maelewano mazuri na nyerere, kinyume na alivyoelewana na samora na kaunda. Kwa kiasi kikubwa tofauti hizo kwa afrika mashariki ndio zilivunja jumuiya.
 
W. J. Malecela,

..kuhusu sheria za kimataifa, mimi naamini usalama wa raia wa Tanzania na mali zao ni muhimu kuliko sheria za kimataifa.

..Amini angeachwa madarakani angeweza ku-regroup na kuja na nguvu mpya na kuleta madhara makubwa zaidi.

..Swali la kujiuliza ni kama Tanzania imekuwa salama na kuishi kwa amani na Waganda tangu Amini aondoke.

..R we safer than we were in 1978?? Definetely, YES.

..Watawala wote waliomfuatia Amini wamekuwa marafiki wa Tanzania. Waganda wanawapenda wa-Tanzania kwa kuwaita "Wakombozi."
 
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Tume ya katiba said:
Kwanini nchi za kiislam zilimsaidia IDDI AMINI? ukipata jawabu hapo utajuwa kwa nini Nyerere alianzisha vita na AMINI, kisha watanzania wakafanywa "wapumbavu" kutungiwa nyimbo za ajabu ajabu.
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"Mpumbavu" utakuwa ni wewe usiyejua kwa nini tuliingia vitani wakati ule na sii Watanzania. Kiongozi shupavu ni yule anayelinda watu wake dhidi ya uvamizi wowote ule toka nje ya mipaka kama alivyoamua Nyerere wakati ule hata kama maamuzi hayo yalileta shida ila heshima ilipatikana.

Hata kama ni mie leo hii jirani aingie mpaka nyumbani kwangu aweke kambi na kuwafanyia vitendo vichafu wanafamilia wangu huyo ni wa kutwangwa tuu na kwa gharama yeyote. Na simtwangi eti mpaka nje ya geti tuu, NO. Mpaka nyumbani kwake ili hata familia yake ijue madhara ya baba yao kucheza na nyumba za watu.

Mtoa hoja hajui madhila yaliyowapata ndugu zetu kule Mtukula mpaka Kyaka, ila Mvumi ingekuwa kule mpakani leo asingekuja na hoja hii. Labda hoja yake ingekuwa KWA NINI UGANDA HATUKUIGEUZA MKOA WA TANZANIA? ili madhila yale yasitokee tena.
 
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