Vita vya Kagera: Nini chanzo? Kulikuwa na ulazima?

Vita vya Kagera: Nini chanzo? Kulikuwa na ulazima?

Zakumi,

You have the rights to voice your opinion! But what I know Tanzanians loves Mwl. so much; during his funeral thousands of Tanzanians paid their respects days and nights, they cried as if they lost very close member of their family member; Zakumi "msambaa mmoja havunji soko" you can dislike him but that won`t change the views of millions Tanzanians who loves him; the man was born to a leader; even those great leaders never accomplish everything they wish but at least they tried; please just mention one person who is considered great leader in this world who performed 100%

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM

Chama,

Please show me where I say I dislike or hate Mwl. I differ with Mwalimu philosophically. But that doesn't mean I hate or dislike him, his religion, his tribal, or his family.

In areas where national interests transcend philosophies, I give him credits for trying his best. For example, after the failed coup of 1964, he transformed the military to reflect the ethnic mark up of the nation. It wasn't an easy job, but he did his best.

Unlike most of his philosophical supporters, Ujamaa was part of his life. He lived it and If those who supported him would have tried at least a quater of what he envisioned, probably the country could have been in a better shape.
 
Mkuu wangu Chama,
Suppose wewe ni Mkristo, na unataka kumuonesha mwislamu kwamba Uislamu sio deni ya kweli na haki, basi tumia Kuran kumuoneha Mwislamu huyo kwamba dini yake ina mapungufu lakini ukitumia Biblia yako, katu hutaweza kumshawishi unless awe na mapungufu ktk ujengaji hoja! Halikadhalika, kama wewe ni Mwislamu na unataka kumuonesha Mkristo ni namna gani Ukristo usivyo deni ya haki nay a kweli, basi tumia Biblia anayoiamini na uoneshe mapungu ya kitabu anachokiamini, lakini ikiwa utatumia Kuran unayoiamini wewe, hapo hamtafikia muafaka! Nimetangulia na mfano huu huku nikifahamu wazi ugumu ulionao katika kutafsiri mifano; especially ile ninayoitoa mimi!!!

Sasa, turudi kwenye mada huku nikiaamini nimeshakuweka sawa kutokana na mfano huo hapo juu! Narudi kwenye mada kwa ku-quote maelezo toka kwenye link ambayo umeiweka wewe mwenyewe! Sina shaka yoyote kwamba link hiyo unaiamini na ndio maana umeitoa kama mwislamu! Link hiyo ni kutoka kwenye post yako # 397.

Awali ya yote nitangulie kukumbushia msimamo wangu ambao nimeshautoa mara kadhaa kwenye mjadala huu! Kwamba, kwa pale ilipofikia, yaani November 1978, Nyerere hakuwa na option bali kuingia vitani! Amin alishavuka mpaka na kuanza kushambulia Kagera hivyo ilikuwa ni lazima Tanzania nayo iingie vitani. Lakini mara zotenimekuwa nikisisitiza kwamba, base yangu sio vita ya 1978 bali matukio yaliyosababisha sisi tuingie kwenye vita hiyo. Vita ni matokeo(products) tu kwahiyo tunatakiwa tujadili inputs zilizozalisha vita hiyo. Ifuatayo ni nukuu toka kwenye link yako:
Ethnic Purging
“Obote took refuge in Tanzania, from where, in 1972, he attempted unsuccessfully to regain the country through a military coup. Obote supporters within the Ugandan army, who were predominantly from the Acholi and Lango ethnic groups, were also involved in the coup. Amin responded by bombing Tanzanian towns, and purging the army of Acholi and Lango officers. The ethnic violence grew to include the whole of the army, and then Ugandan civilians, as Amin became increasingly paranoid.” Source: Chama’s provided link, which’s Biography: Idi Amin Dada (Part 2 of 2)

Katika post zangu za nyuma, nimeshalieleza hili mara nyingi. Kwamba, baada ya Obote kukimbilia Tanzania, akaanza harakati za kumpindua Amin kutokea Tanzania!! Andiko lako linasema “Amin responded by bombing Tanzanian towns, and purging the army of Acholi and Lango officers.” Nini maana ya ku-respond mkuu wangu?! Madai yenu yangekuwa na msingi kama pangekuwa na sentensi kama hii: When Obote fled to Tanzania, Amin sent troops to Tanzania and try to assassinate him (Obote) and Obote RESPONDED by sending troops to Uganda to overthrow Amin!! Kiingereza changu ni kibovu lakini sina shaka kimeleeweka!
Sasa, niambie wewe…ni kiongozi duniani ambae angekubali kuona kuna tishio la kupinduliwa linalofadhiliwa na nchi jirani na bado pakaendelea kuwepo na uhusiano mwema kati ya nchi hizo?! Bado narudia, na wala sina haja ya kutafuta maneno hapa. Ilimradi Nyerere alikata shauri la kuitumia Tanzania kama uwanja wa maandalizi kwa ajili ya kumpindua Amin, basi Amin alikuwa na HAKI na WAJIBU wa kulinda madaraka yake…kama madaraka hayo yalikuwa ni halali au sio halali, sio juu yako wewe, mimi wala Nyerere!! Amin alikuwa na haki na wajibu huo. Na kwakuwa wafanyaji hao walitokea Tanzania na kufadhiliwa na serikali ya Tanzania, basi Amin nae alikuwa na HAKI na WAJIBU wa kuishambulia Tanzania. Hivyo basi, damu ya wananchi wa Kagera ni ya Nyerere kwavile ndie alisababisha!! Kama tulivyozungumza sana, Tanzania iliweka kambi yake Lushoto kwa ajili ya kutoa military training kwa wafuasi wa Obote. Na ndio maana hata baada ya kufanya jaribio lile lililoshindwa, wafuasi wa Obote walikimbia na kurudi tena Tanzania. Then ulitarajia kwa kiongozi mwenye kariba ya Amin akae kimya?! C’mon buddy!
 
Chama,

Please show me where I say I dislike or hate Mwl. I differ with Mwalimu philosophically. But that doesn't mean I hate or dislike him, his religion, his tribal, or his family.

In areas where national interests transcend philosophies, I give him credits for trying his best. For example, after the failed coup of 1964, he transformed the military to reflect the ethnic mark up of the nation. It wasn't an easy job, but he did his best.

Unlike most of his philosophical supporters, Ujamaa was part of his life. He lived it and If those who supported him would have tried at least a quater of what he envisioned, probably the country could have been in a better shape.

Zakumi,

My bad!! The message was for people who hates Mwl. Nyerere; it was not my intention to attack you or anyone engaged in this discussion; I am deeply sorry.

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM
 
NasDaz;
Nimekusoma vizuri sana na nimekuelewa kama nitakuwa nimekosea nisahihishe; kwa ufupi zilikuwepo rabsha za maneno kati ya Uganda na Tanzania; Mwl. Nyerere hakuunga mapinduzi yaliyomuondoa Obote madarakani; pamoja na kuwa tulikaribisha wakimbizi kutoka Uganda; Amin alichopaswa ni kulinda mipaka yake na si vinginevyo; Tanzania haikutishia usalama wa Amin; kumbuka Amin mara kadhaa alituma vikosi vyake kuvuka mpaka hayo yote Mwl. aliyavumilia; kumbuka wakimbizi wa Uganda hawakuwekwa mpakani kama walivyowakimbizi wa Rwanda na Burundi; yote hiyo ilikuwa ni kuepusha shari; ili Amin asilete visingizio; tatizo la Amin alikuwa NAIVE AND STUPID; kumtupia lawama Mwl. Nyerere alianzisha vita ni kumuonea; kama angetaka vita angeweka brigedi nzima Ziwa Magharibi; Amin ndiye aliyevunja makubaliano ya Mogadishu; hata utafiti umeonyesha Tanzania haikuvunja mkataba ule. NasDaz naamini wapo watu hamuelewani hivi ikitokea mimi na wewe hatuelewani nikikupiga ngumi kwa dhana ya kutokuelewana kwetu utaniacha? Na nani atakaepaswa kulaumiwa?

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM
 
NasDaz;
Nimekusoma vizuri sana na nimekuelewa kama nitakuwa nimekosea nisahihishe; kwa ufupi zilikuwepo rabsha za maneno kati ya Uganda na Tanzania; Mwl. Nyerere hakuunga mapinduzi yaliyomuondoa Obote madarakani;
Chama, bado tatizo letu la msingi kati yangu na wewe lipo pale.....ROOT, SOURCE, MZIZI, CHANZO!! Labda nishawishike kwamba kuna tatuzo la matumizi ya lugha!! Hapo kweneye RED unamaanisha nini?! Kama ni suala la mapinduzi yaliyomwondoa Amin madarakani basi nazani hakuna mjadala kwamba ni majeshi ya Tanzania ndiyo yalimwondoa Amin Madarakani. Au tuseme unamaanisha si kweli kwamba Nyerere aliunga mkono harakati za Obote kumwondoa madarakani kwenye jaribio lililoshindwa la 1972!! Kama ndicho unachomaanisha, jibu ni kwamba NYERERE HAKUMUUNGA OBOTE KWA MANENO KWENYE JARIBIO LILE BALI ALIMUUNGA KWA VITENDO!! Umesema vizuri kwamba kwa kuhofia chokochoko za Amin, wakimbizi wa Uganda hawakuwekwa mpakani kama ilivyo kwa wale watokao Rwanda au Burundi. Bila shala unachomaanisha ni kwamba walikuwa ndani kabisa ya Tanzania. Sasa niambie wewe...wafuasi(wanajeshi) walioenda kufanya jaribio lililoshindwa Uganda waliweza vipi kusafiri kilometa kadhaa ndani ya Tanzania hadi wanaingia Uganda bila serikali kufahamu?! Hawa hawakuwa askari wa siafu wenye uwezo wa kuchimba na kupita chini kwa chini; bali ni askari wanadamu!!! Na ni kutokana na ukweli huo ndio maana nasema wazi kwamba Nyerere hakumuunga mkono kwa maneo bali kwa vitendo!! Na ukumbuke kwamba, kulikuwa na military training field wilayani Handeni ambayo ilikuja kufungwa baada ya kusainiwa Mogadishu Accord. Kama unakumbuka sawa sawa, Mogadishu Accord ilisainiwa October 7,1972....hii maana yake ni kwamba kumbe kabla ya October 1972 Tanzania ilikuwa inafadhili harakati za kijeshi za wanachama wa UPC waliokuwa chini ya Obote! Kitendo hicho hakikubaliki, hakivumiliki, na wala hakiwezi kukaribishwa na mtawala yeyote yule duniani labda mtawala sawa na kiongozi wa sasa wa Somalia ambae hana serikali yenye uwezo wa kujilinda!
pamoja na kuwa tulikaribisha wakimbizi kutoka Uganda; Amin alichopaswa ni kulinda mipaka yake na si vinginevyo; Tanzania haikutishia usalama wa Amin;
Hiyo hapo kwenye RED tunaita DOUBLE STANDARD! Kama unaamini alichotakiwa kufanya Amin ni kulinda tu mipaka yake ni kwanini majeshi yetu hayakuishia tu kuwatimua majeshi wa Amin ndani ya mipaka ya Tanzania na kuanza kulinda mipaka yetu na badala yake tukaingizamajeshi ndani kabisa ya Uganda na kumng'oa Amin madarakani?! Mkuu wangu Chama vipi?!
Sasa hapo kwenye BLUE inaonesha kwamba hata vyanzo ambavyo wewe mwenyewe umevileta hapa huvitaki kuviamini!!! Ulitaka Tanzania itishie vipi usalama wa Amin zaidi ya kitendo chake cha kuwa na military training ya wafuasi wa UPC waliokuwa na lengo la kwenda kumpindua Amin?! Ulitaka Tanzania itishie vipi usalama wa Amin zaidi ya kuruhusu Waganda wapinzani wa Amin watumie ardhi ya Tanzania kufanya maandalizi ya mapinduzi?!
kumbuka Amin mara kadhaa alituma vikosi vyake kuvuka mpaka hayo yote Mwl. aliyavumilia;
Hayo yote ni matokeo ya uchokozi ambao ulikuwa engineered na sisi wenyewe, ikiwa nitataka kuiga tabia ya kinafiki basi naweza sema kwamba the one to be blamed is ourselves na endapo nitataka kuwa partial hypocrite, basi naweza sema kwamba the one to be blamed is Nyerere and his government lakini endapo nita-opt kujiweka mbali kabisa na unafiki basi sitakuwa na budi kusema wazi kwamba the one to be blamed is The Late Nyerere ambae alikuwa ndie Jemedari Mkuu wa Majeshi ya Ulinzi na Usalama, Tanzania.
kumbuka wakimbizi wa Uganda hawakuwekwa mpakani kama walivyowakimbizi wa Rwanda na Burundi; yote hiyo ilikuwa ni kuepusha shari; ili Amin asilete visingizio;
Hapo ndipo panapojenga concern ya sisi wengine.....hawa jamaa hawakuwekwa mpakani; sasa sijui iliwezekana vipi kutembea maili kadhaa ndani ya ardhi ya Tanzania hadi wanafika mpakani na kuvuka na bado serikali ya Tanzania isifahamu!!
tatizo la Amin alikuwa NAIVE AND STUPID;
I'll be even MORE STUPID if i disagree with you on this!
kumtupia lawama Mwl. Nyerere alianzisha vita ni kumuonea;
Kutompa pongezi kwamba he was not an ASSOCIATE ENGINEER in engineering the conflict between Amin and Tanzania itakuwa ndo kumuonea zaidi...!!
kama angetaka vita angeweka brigedi nzima Ziwa Magharibi;
Nyerere was a very smart person...and only stupid leader ambae angefanya kinyume na alivyokuwa amefanya Nyerere!!
Amin ndiye aliyevunja makubaliano ya Mogadishu;
Kama mimi na wewe tumepatanishwa halafu nakupa mkono na hautaki kuupokea hapo maana yake ni kwamba mapatano hayo ni ya kinafiki. Kama kweli umeukabali upatanisho wetu then huna sababu ya kukataa mkono wangu. Usisahau kwamba, Mogadishu Accord ilisainiwa Otober 07,1972 na October 21,1972 kulikuwa na sherehe za kusherehekea mapinduzi ya Somalia. Nyerere alisusa kuhudhuria sherehe hizo kwavile tu Amin alihudhuria!!!! Na alifanya hivyo wakati alishathibitisha hapo kabla kwamba angehudhuria!!! Hivyo basi, ikiwa Nyerere alisusia sherehe kwavile tu Amin alihudhuaria, je unataka kuniambia alikuwa na nia ya dhati ya makubaliano hayo?! Kama utaniuliza maoni yangu, nitakueleza wazi kwamba Nyerere hakuwa na nia ya dhati ya makubaliano hayo lakini alilazimika tu kusaini. Na kwavile Nyerere ni mtu smart, alijitahidi kuonesha anayaheshimu makubaliano hayo ingawaje kwa siri aliendelea kufadhili harakati za kijeshi za Obote.
hata utafiti umeonyesha Tanzania haikuvunja mkataba ule. NasDaz naamini wapo watu hamuelewani hivi ikitokea mimi na wewe hatuelewani nikikupiga ngumi kwa dhana ya kutokuelewana kwetu utaniacha? Na nani atakaepaswa kulaumiwa?

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM
Safi sana!! Kama mimi ni goi goi, nitakuacha lakini kama nafahamu haki na hutu wangu sikuachi....lazima tuzichape!! Nyerere kampiga ngumi Amin, kwa bahati mbaya, Amin si goi goi hivyo akakata shauri la kurudisha mashambulizi. Kwa bahati mbaya, watu wanamuangalia huyu ambae ame-respond to attach!
Am afraid, bado unaamua kuvuka matukio yote tangu Obote kuingia Tanzania na unarukia matukio yaliyotokea baada ya Obote kuanza uchokozi!
 
NasDaz
Nilikusisitiza iwapo uliisoma link ya Waberoya; nenda page 3 soma paragraph hii
"Thus the Ugandan army was not a legitimate national military services but rather a non Ugandan mercenary force. Such a facts seriously undermine the legitimacy of Idd Amin regimes".

Amin alipata upinzani ndani ya Uganda
"Internal opposition to Amin was centered around students, labor unions and the churches, women`s organizations and Agr"icultural workers."
Amin alipata upinzani ndani ya jeshi lake
"In addition there was a great deal of unrest among Ugandans mercenary army. From 1971 to 1977 there were twelve attempted coup."
Kama ni hoja ya kuhifadhi wakimbizi wa Uganda hata Kenya walikuwepo; Obote alikuwa na ofisi Nairobi
"The main externally based opposition to Amin was Milton Obote`s Uganda Peoples Congress based in Dar es salaam withh offices in London, Nairobi and Lusaka."

Pitia hivyo vipengele vichache au soma habari kamili kwenye ukurasa wa tatu

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM
 
NasDaz;
Nimekusoma vizuri sana na nimekuelewa kama nitakuwa nimekosea nisahihishe; kwa ufupi zilikuwepo rabsha za maneno kati ya Uganda na Tanzania; Mwl. Nyerere hakuunga mapinduzi yaliyomuondoa Obote madarakani; pamoja na kuwa tulikaribisha wakimbizi kutoka Uganda; Amin alichopaswa ni kulinda mipaka yake na si vinginevyo; Tanzania haikutishia usalama wa Amin; kumbuka Amin mara kadhaa alituma vikosi vyake kuvuka mpaka hayo yote Mwl. aliyavumilia; kumbuka wakimbizi wa Uganda hawakuwekwa mpakani kama walivyowakimbizi wa Rwanda na Burundi; yote hiyo ilikuwa ni kuepusha shari; ili Amin asilete visingizio; tatizo la Amin alikuwa NAIVE AND STUPID; kumtupia lawama Mwl. Nyerere alianzisha vita ni kumuonea; kama angetaka vita angeweka brigedi nzima Ziwa Magharibi; Amin ndiye aliyevunja makubaliano ya Mogadishu; hata utafiti umeonyesha Tanzania haikuvunja mkataba ule. NasDaz naamini wapo watu hamuelewani hivi ikitokea mimi na wewe hatuelewani nikikupiga ngumi kwa dhana ya kutokuelewana kwetu utaniacha? Na nani atakaepaswa kulaumiwa?

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM

Chama,

..asante kwa michango yako.

..tatizo la NasDaz ni kwamba amekwama na hoja zake za mwaka 72 kabla ya mkataba wa amani wa Mogadishu.

..kuna maelezo kwamba baada ya mkataba wa Mogadishu hali ya mpaka wa Tanzania na Uganda ilikuwa shwari mpaka miaka 8 baadaye Amini alipotuvamia.

..uthibitisho kwamba Nyerere alishaachana na mipango yake ya kumuondoa Amini ni udogo wa vikosi vya JWTZ vilivyokuwa mpakani na Uganda wakati Amini anatuvamia.

..Pamoja na majeshi yake kuondolewa ktk ardhi ya Tanzania, Iddi Amini aliendelea kutushambulia kwa kutumia ndege na hakusitisha vitisho vyake kwamba atarudi na kuchukua ardhi ya Tanzania.

..Mazingira hayo hapo juu ndiyo yaliyopelekea Tanzania kuamua kumtoa madarakani Iddi Amini. Tangu tumuondoe Iddi Amini madarakani hakuna serikali ya Uganda ambayo imekuwa hostile to Tanzania.
 
Kwanini tunamjadili Amin pekee yake? Kuna kumbukumbu kuwa baadhi ya watanzania katika sehemu zilizotekwa na majeshi ya Uganda waliodai kuwa wao ni waganda na sio watanzania.

Na kuna tetesi kuwa watanzania fulani walishirikiana na Iddi Amin. Na majeshi ya Uganda yalipovamia, hayakuharibu mali zao hao watu.

Na kuna viongozi wa CCM kutoka Kagera waliopoteza uanachama wao baada ya vita. Je kuna watu wenye kumbukumbu zozote?
 
Chama,

..asante kwa michango yako.

..tatizo la NasDaz ni kwamba amekwama na hoja zake za mwaka 72 kabla ya mkataba wa amani wa Mogadishu.

..kuna maelezo kwamba baada ya mkataba wa Mogadishu hali ya mpaka wa Tanzania na Uganda ilikuwa shwari mpaka miaka 8 baadaye Amini alipotuvamia.

..uthibitisho kwamba Nyerere alishaachana na mipango yake ya kumuondoa Amini ni udogo wa vikosi vya JWTZ vilivyokuwa mpakani na Uganda wakati Amini anatuvamia.

..Pamoja na majeshi yake kuondolewa ktk ardhi ya Tanzania, Iddi Amini aliendelea kutushambulia kwa kutumia ndege na hakusitisha vitisho vyake kwamba atarudi na kuchukua ardhi ya Tanzania.

..Mazingira hayo hapo juu ndiyo yaliyopelekea Tanzania kuamua kumtoa madarakani Iddi Amini. Tangu tumuondoe Iddi Amini madarakani hakuna serikali ya Uganda ambayo imekuwa hostile to Tanzania.

Kwa kutumia implication of logics, je utaniruhusu kusema kuwa toka waganda (Lule, Binaisa, Obote, na Museveni) waliokuwa wakisaidiwa na Tanzania kuchukua madaraka Uganda hakuna serikali ya Uganda ambayo imekuwa hostile to Tanzania?
 
Kwanini tunamjadili Amin pekee yake? Kuna kumbukumbu kuwa baadhi ya watanzania katika sehemu zilizotekwa na majeshi ya Uganda waliodai kuwa wao ni waganda na sio watanzania.

Na kuna tetesi kuwa watanzania fulani walishirikiana na Iddi Amin. Na majeshi ya Uganda yalipovamia, hayakuharibu mali zao hao watu.

Na kuna viongozi wa CCM kutoka Kagera waliopoteza uanachama wao baada ya vita. Je kuna watu wenye kumbukumbu zozote?

Zakumi
Mada kuu ni Nyerere - Idd Amin kama utayaleta jamvini tutayajadili; ni vyema tukamaliza hili la nani mhusika aliyesababisha vita, tupe muda tumuelemishe NasDaz; ungetusaidia sana kuzimwaga hizo tetesi, nashauri kama unafacts ziweke, tetesi hazina mshiko.

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM
 
Kwa kutumia implication of logics, je utaniruhusu kusema kuwa toka waganda (Lule, Binaisa, Obote, na Museveni) waliokuwa wakisaidiwa na Tanzania kuchukua madaraka Uganda hakuna serikali ya Uganda ambayo imekuwa hostile to Tanzania?

Zakumi;
Kihistoria Tanzania na Uganda hatuna uhasama; matatizo yalijitokeza wakati Uganda inatawaliwa na Idd Amin; hii hamaanishi amani iliyopo sasa hivi kati yetu imetokana na Tanzania kuweka vibaraka wake Uganda; utakuwa umekosea sana kama logics zako zitakupeleka huko. Amani yetu imetokana na Uganda kutawaliwa na viongozi wenye kuheshimu mipaka yetu.

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM
 
mpendwa Waberoya,

una matatizo makubwa sana!!

kwa sasa niko nje ya nchi. nakuomba kama hutojali, nitumie kwa PM number yako ya simu. mwezi july nitakuwa dar na nitakutafuta tuongee uso kwa uso. tutasaidiana mpendwa, tutawekana sawa!!

ubarikiwe sana,

Glory to God!
 
NasDaz
Nilikusisitiza iwapo uliisoma link ya Waberoya; nenda page 3 soma paragraph hii
"Thus the Ugandan army was not a legitimate national military services but rather a non Ugandan mercenary force. Such a facts seriously undermine the legitimacy of Idd Amin regimes".

Chama, nitangulie tu kusema kwamba andiko lile nimelisoma lote na kulielewa pasi na shaka. Suala la Ugandan army kuwa not legitimate national army hakuhalalishi Tanzania kutoa support ya kijeshi kwa Obote. Hata kama jeshi lilijaa mamluki au wote ni mamluki, bado haitoi uhalali kwa Tanzania kufanya chokochoko kwavile tu nchi jirani ina jeshi mamluki! Kama jeshi lilikuwa ni la mamluki or otheriwise, it was none of our business, PERIOD! Ni kweli, kwa sababu za kibinadamu, nchi jirani inaweza kuingilia kati kijeshi kama ambavyo Nyerere ali-opt. Lakini hoja ni ile ile, Amin nae alikuwa na HAKI pamoja na WAJIBU wa kufanya lolote kutetea mamlaka yake!
Amin alipata upinzani ndani ya Uganda
"Internal opposition to Amin was centered around students, labor unions and the churches, women`s organizations and Agr"icultural workers."
SAWA! Alipata upinzani ndani ya nchi lakini naona umeacha kwa makusudi kile kipengele kinachosema: "The main externally based oposition to Amin was Milton Obote's Uganda People's Congress based in Dar es salaam with offices in Nairobi, London and Lusaka. Nyerere provided Obote with the facilities necessary to wage a very small scale guerrilla style campaign against Amin's regime. Somalia, also a "socialist" state joined Tanzania and Obote's UPC in drawing up a plan in February 1972 whereby a joint force of several thousand troops would invade Uganda from the Kagera Salient and overthrow Idi Amin. The plan was called off because Chinese Premier Chou En-lai was against it, and because Tanzania feared the British and Israelis might intervene directly on Amin's behalf. In succeeding years, additional planned strikes into Uganda similar to the one in 1972 were cancelled due to Nyerere's fear that Britain and Israel would intervene."
Amin alipata upinzani ndani ya jeshi lake
"In addition there was a great deal of unrest among Ugandans mercenary army. From 1971 to 1977 there were twelve attempted coup."
You're absolutely right, hao waliokuwa Uganda walikuwa na HAKI pamoja na WAJIBU wa kutaka kumwondoa Amin ingawaje Amin nae alikuwa na HAKI na WAJIBU wa ku-react back. Hata hivyo, Tanzania haikuwa na HAKI (labda wajibu kwa ajili ya kuwatetea innocents Ugandans) ya kufadhili vitendo hivyo kupitia UPC. Na kama tulijiona tuna WAJIBU huo basi AMIN nae alikuwa na HAKI na WAJIBU ku-react back!
Kama ni hoja ya kuhifadhi wakimbizi wa Uganda hata Kenya walikuwepo; Obote alikuwa na ofisi Nairobi
"The main externally based opposition to Amin was Milton Obote`s Uganda Peoples Congress based in Dar es salaam withh offices in London, Nairobi and Lusaka."
Mkuu wangu Chama, naona hoja ya kuwahifadhi wakimbizi unairudia tena, nila shaka baada ya kuishiwa hoja za ku-defend arguments zako!! Mbona nilishakuambia kwamba hapakuwa na tatizo kwa Nyerere kutoa hifadhi kwa Obote pamoja na wale wote ambao walikimbia Uganda?! Tatizo ni kwamba, Nyerere akachukua jukumu la kutoa msaada wa kijeshi kwa wakimbizi hao....hilo ndilo ndilo tatizo la msingi! By the way, unataka kuniambia hujaona tofauti kati ya "Milton Obote`s Uganda Peoples Congress based in Dar es salaam" na "withh offices in London, Nairobi and Lusaka."
Pitia hivyo vipengele vichache au soma habari kamili kwenye ukurasa wa tatu

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM
Sio kupitia Mkuu wangu, Nilishavisoma kabla...Vipi ile link yako uliyoitoa hutaki tena kuifanya ndiyo reference?!
 
Kwa kutumia implication of logics, je utaniruhusu kusema kuwa toka waganda (Lule, Binaisa, Obote, na Museveni) waliokuwa wakisaidiwa na Tanzania kuchukua madaraka Uganda hakuna serikali ya Uganda ambayo imekuwa hostile to Tanzania?

Zakumi,

..kuna jamaa yangu aliniambia kwamba Gen.Tito Okello Lutwa alihamia Tanzania baada ya kupinduliwa na Museveni!!
 
NasDaz,
"Mkuu wangu Chama, naona hoja ya kuwahifadhi wakimbizi unairudia tena, nila shaka baada ya kuishiwa hoja za ku-defend arguments zako!! Mbona nilishakuambia kwamba hapakuwa na tatizo kwa Nyerere kutoa hifadhi kwa Obote pamoja na wale wote ambao walikimbia Uganda?! Tatizo ni kwamba, Nyerere akachukua jukumu la kutoa msaada wa kijeshi kwa wakimbizi hao....hilo ndilo ndilo tatizo la msingi! By the way, unataka kuniambia hujaona tofauti kati ya "Milton Obote`s Uganda Peoples Congress based in Dar es salaam" na "withh offices in London, Nairobi and Lusaka."
Hakuna hata kipengele kimoja nimeacha kwa makusudi yote hayo ni msisitizo tu kwamba ndani ya utawala wa Idd Amin mambo hayakuwa shwari; na kumbuka Amin sio eti alikuwa ametulia hata yeye aliingilia siasa zetu za ndani Amin alihusishwa sana mapinduzi yaliyotaka kufanywa ili kumuweka Kambona madarakani labda nikurudishe kwenye jarida la utafiti
"In August 1972 President Nyerere was warned of conspiracy to invade Tanzania from two fronts, the northen border with Uganda and southern border with Portuguese Mozambique."
Malizia kusoma kipengele chote majibu yote yapo, na kama umesoma ripoti nzima na kuielewa nadhani tungeashaumaliza mjadala huu. Nifanyie msaada mmoja copy and paste ripoti nzima; mkuu Nas jaribu kunielewa nilipogusia jeshi la Uganda halikuwa na legitimacy kama lilivyoongelewa kwenye ripoti lengo lilikuwa ni kuonyesha mambo hayakuwa shwari ndani ya jeshi la Amin. Na wapi nilisema Tanzania imeingilia mambo ya Uganda kwasababu jeshi la Amin limejaa askari mamluki?

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM


 
Zakumi,

..kuna jamaa yangu aliniambia kwamba Gen.Tito Okello Lutwa alihamia Tanzania baada ya kupinduliwa na Museveni!!

Kwikwikwi,

Nilikuwa nachomekea tu. Ndio alikuwepo Tanzania.
 
Wazee hapa nime-attache files ambazo ni mahojiano kati ya waandishi wa habari wa Uganda na Obote.

Kwenye attachment: Museveni Liar, Obote anaonyesha kabisa kuwa 1972 mashambulizi yalitokea Tanzania.

Hizi ni quotes kutoka kwenye attachment hiyo:


In November 1978, I was in Lusaka where I had come to visit my friend President Kenneth Kaunda and I was staying at State House. Then I heard on BBC that Amin had attacked Kagera region in Northern Tanzania and annexed it to Uganda.
Immediately after that, Nyerere rang me. “Milton,” Nyerere said with excitement in his voice, “this is what we have been waiting for. Please come back.” I said, “I am a guest here, I cannot just leave.” Then Nyerere said, “I have spoken to Kenneth and he is going to arrange for you to come back.” However, it took about a week before President Kaunda found an aircraft for me.

Someone had told me that someone called Museveni had arrived and had gone to Morogoro where Tanzania had given us a camp for those Ugandans who wanted to be trained as guerrillas. I did not think much about him. Now it was 1972.

When Nyerere told me about Museveni and his troops in Mbarara, Masaka, Jinja and Mbale, I said, “Can you give me time Mr. President to check?” he agreed and said, “Take your time.” I started working the telephones to people in Mbarara, Masaka, Kampala, Jinja and Mbale. I regret to say that I found no trace of recruitment and I reported this to Nyerere advising him that we should not trust that story. But Nyerere believed it because it was from his intelligence service. He trusted his intelligence very much.

Within a short time, Nyerere asked me to make preparations for invasion of Uganda.


Hii haipo kwenye attachment
As Obote's staff were preparing for Singapore, Museveni appeared at the President's Office and said he had an urgent message for President Obote. In 2004, the late Adonia Tiberondwa, a minister of industry in Obote's second government, told journalist Andrew Mwenda that the president's staff, being busy, did not attend to Museveni and kept him waiting at the reception.
Museveni had something urgent to tell Obote: Amin, said Museveni, was amassing arms at Bamunanika outside Kampala. He, Museveni, had that information in a report he had compiled on Amin. Somehow, nobody in Obote's office was in a frame of mind to attend to Museveni. Tiberondwa said Museveni became frantic and angrily stormed out of the building.
 

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mpendwa Waberoya,

una matatizo makubwa sana!!

kwa sasa niko nje ya nchi. nakuomba kama hutojali, nitumie kwa PM number yako ya simu. mwezi july nitakuwa dar na nitakutafuta tuongee uso kwa uso. tutasaidiana mpendwa, tutawekana sawa!!

ubarikiwe sana,

Glory to God!

Nje wapi na mimi nataka hizo nyuzi.
 
Kwanini tunamjadili Amin pekee yake? Kuna kumbukumbu kuwa baadhi ya watanzania katika sehemu zilizotekwa na majeshi ya Uganda waliodai kuwa wao ni waganda na sio watanzania.

Na kuna tetesi kuwa watanzania fulani walishirikiana na Iddi Amin. Na majeshi ya Uganda yalipovamia, hayakuharibu mali zao hao watu.

Na kuna viongozi wa CCM kutoka Kagera waliopoteza uanachama wao baada ya vita. Je kuna watu wenye kumbukumbu zozote?

Watanzania Fulani ni kina nani hao?
 
Nje wapi na mimi nataka hizo nyuzi.

mpendwa,

issue sio "nje wapi", bali kama unataka tuongee zaidi, niPM no yako ya simu, july nitarudi daR NA NITAKUTAFUTA POPOTE ULIPO TUONGEE USI KWA USO! KAMA HUTOJALI LAKINI.

UBARIKIWE SANA.

GLORY TO GOD!
 
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