Mwafrika wa Kike
JF-Expert Member
- Jul 5, 2007
- 5,185
- 65
Inaonekana huyu anatoa maneno tu kuendeleza hii mada huku akiita watu waongo kumbe mwenyewe ndiye kajaa uongo na uzushi mwingi tu.
CHADEMA kweli ni shwari au ni kauli za kisiasa tu ?
CHADEMA kweli ni shwari au ni kauli za kisiasa tu ?
- Thread starter Mtu wa Pwani
- Start date
Inaonekana huyu anatoa maneno tu kuendeleza hii mada huku akiita watu waongo kumbe mwenyewe ndiye kajaa uongo na uzushi mwingi tu.
Pundit
JF-Expert Member
- Feb 4, 2007
- 3,733
- 148
It is with an ambivalence of sadness and joy that I pen this prognosis on the recently debacle, democratic nevertheless, ensued amongst the CHADEMA top brass. Now I for one abhor lukewarmness just as the author of that psychedellic book of revelation, but on this I have to measure things with Solomonic insight if not wisdom.
I listened to Mwanakijiji's hour long rollercoaster webcast of the brawl, from the intro down to the Melody taarab tunes.I went even further to viewing Mr. Wangwe's video clip of his harangues on that august floor. I must say the back and forthing in the arguments and counter arguments will leave many a heart unchanged, and many a careful observers with the worst possible prognosis.
I will not mince words, if it was a battle of wits and oratory Tundu Lissu tried his best, but Chacha Wangwe is a master of the counter attack and the jujitsu of flinging arguments and words at his opponent like a domino.However confusing, I came out with the following.
1. This squabble exposed that it is true Chacha Wangwe is not party leadership material.All political correctness aside I am not wondering why is CHADEMA's top brass ousting him now, I am wondering how did they put up with him for so long and how did he even get there.
2.Although Chacha Wangwe is no party leadership material, he is a passionate "Shakesperean Fool" a necessary and effective clown who tells the truth in a clownish way and delivers the message. I was watching his bunge clip (thanks to Kuhani) and in analysing what he said came with the conclusion that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with what he sadi, the core subjects of what he was talking about were very valid and the Tanzanian people actually need to have MPs who can speak up for them. But I have to say the delivery was less than mediocre, it was actually horrible, to the extent of giving Speaker Sitta ammunition to make Wangwe rescind his ad libbing (thats what it was) that the government is run by Indians. He was colloquial and impromptu, with no preparation whatsoever. Presentation zero, presentation can make or break your case.In this case he was taken lass seriously on some very serious matters.Those who know a Shakespearean fool will recognize him as one.
3. The loser in this debacle is CHADEMA. The two interviews exposed clear weaknesses on both parts. CHADEMA failed to have a tight vetting process and let this fiery vagabond slip through the cracks to the level of national leadership.This is weak and scary for a party that is the de facto alternative.
In addition to that, Chacha Wangwe has some unimpeachable points in his argument that he is being prosecuted for exposing weakness in his party.Take the tribalism / regionalism charge, out of the six special seats MPs only one can claim not to be closely affiliated with the Chaggas / Kilimanjaro region.Three are Chaggas, one is a Pare, which does not figure in to tribalism if you want to apply that criteria strictly, but as everyone knows the Chaggas and Pares are next door neighbors and this plays into regionalism, the lst one is married to a Chagga, therefore a Chagga-in-law. CHADEMA cannot afford the appearance of tribalism / regionalism let alone the real thing.
4. Although this debacle exposes CHADEMA negatively, it also can be argued that it can have the effect of potraying CHADEMA as a party where indiscipline is not tolerated.To expounge Mr. Wangwe at this point may not be a politically savvy move, but as Tundu Lissu pointed out, it was based on upholding principles.If a party has so much respect for principles such as collective responsibility to the extent of sacrificing it's political clout, I give more power to it for that, not less. CHADEMA can now shine in the wake of anticipated ridicule andcapitalization based on this debacle and claim that at least it is not in the habit of "kulindana" and tolerating indiscipline in its ranks.
Overall, CHADEMA shines more than it lose, a Swahili saying "Heri nusu shari kuliko shari kamili" may summarize the CHADEMA rationale, that we erred in letting Mr. Wangwe climb the leadership ladder, but we cannot let his ill behavior continue to sabotage the party. We can deal with his controversial ousting, what we cannot deal with is the unpredictable outcome of inaction.
For that CHADEMA should be congratulated.
I listened to Mwanakijiji's hour long rollercoaster webcast of the brawl, from the intro down to the Melody taarab tunes.I went even further to viewing Mr. Wangwe's video clip of his harangues on that august floor. I must say the back and forthing in the arguments and counter arguments will leave many a heart unchanged, and many a careful observers with the worst possible prognosis.
I will not mince words, if it was a battle of wits and oratory Tundu Lissu tried his best, but Chacha Wangwe is a master of the counter attack and the jujitsu of flinging arguments and words at his opponent like a domino.However confusing, I came out with the following.
1. This squabble exposed that it is true Chacha Wangwe is not party leadership material.All political correctness aside I am not wondering why is CHADEMA's top brass ousting him now, I am wondering how did they put up with him for so long and how did he even get there.
2.Although Chacha Wangwe is no party leadership material, he is a passionate "Shakesperean Fool" a necessary and effective clown who tells the truth in a clownish way and delivers the message. I was watching his bunge clip (thanks to Kuhani) and in analysing what he said came with the conclusion that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with what he sadi, the core subjects of what he was talking about were very valid and the Tanzanian people actually need to have MPs who can speak up for them. But I have to say the delivery was less than mediocre, it was actually horrible, to the extent of giving Speaker Sitta ammunition to make Wangwe rescind his ad libbing (thats what it was) that the government is run by Indians. He was colloquial and impromptu, with no preparation whatsoever. Presentation zero, presentation can make or break your case.In this case he was taken lass seriously on some very serious matters.Those who know a Shakespearean fool will recognize him as one.
3. The loser in this debacle is CHADEMA. The two interviews exposed clear weaknesses on both parts. CHADEMA failed to have a tight vetting process and let this fiery vagabond slip through the cracks to the level of national leadership.This is weak and scary for a party that is the de facto alternative.
In addition to that, Chacha Wangwe has some unimpeachable points in his argument that he is being prosecuted for exposing weakness in his party.Take the tribalism / regionalism charge, out of the six special seats MPs only one can claim not to be closely affiliated with the Chaggas / Kilimanjaro region.Three are Chaggas, one is a Pare, which does not figure in to tribalism if you want to apply that criteria strictly, but as everyone knows the Chaggas and Pares are next door neighbors and this plays into regionalism, the lst one is married to a Chagga, therefore a Chagga-in-law. CHADEMA cannot afford the appearance of tribalism / regionalism let alone the real thing.
4. Although this debacle exposes CHADEMA negatively, it also can be argued that it can have the effect of potraying CHADEMA as a party where indiscipline is not tolerated.To expounge Mr. Wangwe at this point may not be a politically savvy move, but as Tundu Lissu pointed out, it was based on upholding principles.If a party has so much respect for principles such as collective responsibility to the extent of sacrificing it's political clout, I give more power to it for that, not less. CHADEMA can now shine in the wake of anticipated ridicule andcapitalization based on this debacle and claim that at least it is not in the habit of "kulindana" and tolerating indiscipline in its ranks.
Overall, CHADEMA shines more than it lose, a Swahili saying "Heri nusu shari kuliko shari kamili" may summarize the CHADEMA rationale, that we erred in letting Mr. Wangwe climb the leadership ladder, but we cannot let his ill behavior continue to sabotage the party. We can deal with his controversial ousting, what we cannot deal with is the unpredictable outcome of inaction.
For that CHADEMA should be congratulated.
Gembe
JF-Expert Member
- Sep 25, 2007
- 2,483
- 167
kama vile ccm "mnavyomalizana" wenyewe kwa wenyewe...
Abdalah Vs Kilango
Mwakyembe Vs Chenge
Sitta Vs Lowassa
and the list goes on and on...
Pundit
JF-Expert Member
- Feb 4, 2007
- 3,733
- 148
To the contrary, as stated above, CHADEMA is proving more transparent and democratic than CCM can ever hope to be!
The bigger issue is not in having or not having problems, everybody is entitled to problems, to err is human, the bigger issue is in acknowledging the problems and working towards a solution.
CCM is not even acknowledging problems, let alone working towards a solution.
ccm wao ukiiba pesa kama chenge bado unapewa nafasi kwenye uongozi wao. Hawajui kabisa suala la kuwa accountable.
Gembe
JF-Expert Member
- Sep 25, 2007
- 2,483
- 167
which Democracy are you trying to tell us here?kulikuwa hakuna Natural Justice katika hili na wala hamkumtendea haki Chacha Wangwe kisa anpingana na Mwenyekiti.
I know zitto,Personally najua naye katoa maaumzi kwa sababu ya Emotion ya kina Mbowe tu.Nothin else!
Kosa lipi ambalo Ccha klafanya mpaka afukuzwe chama?
1.Je kwa kuacha kusikiliza anayosema Mwenyekiti?na kwasababu umejilinganisha na CCM na kwa kuwa mmkeuwa mkipinga watu kuendekeza mambo ya Fikra za Mwenyekiti.Nyie mbona mnayatetea..Au bado mko tulipotoka siye?
2.Sula la Ukabila aliloelezea Wangwe,Nyie mnabisha nini kwasababu linaelezeka na linafhamika kwa uwazi na Ukweli,Tatizo hamtaki kuwambiwa Ukweli.
3.If CHADEMA would be an option kwangu nisingeopt for CHADEMA until they change what Wangwe is trying to do.
a)kuondoa Suala ya ukabila katika Chama na kurudish chama chenye SURA ya kitaifa.
b)Kusimamia Matumizi ya Pesa za Chama na hata kama pesa inatoloweza na Mbowe kwa kiasi kikubwa,anachangia kwa Mpenzi yake kama MwanaCHADEMA na si vinginevyo hivyo anaruhusiwa kuhojiwa
Gembe
JF-Expert Member
- Sep 25, 2007
- 2,483
- 167
Aliyekula Pesa za Chama ni Wangwe au Mbowe?
Mgagagigikoko
JF-Expert Member
- Jul 1, 2007
- 474
- 0
Mimi niliesema kuwa aligombea uenyekiti UVCCM akashindwa,akagombea baraza kuu akashindwa, baada ya hapo akaingia Nccr halafu Tlp na uchaguzi uliopita akaja Chadema. hakuwahi kusema kuwa aliwahi kugombea uenyekiti wa mkoa wa Dar-es-salaam na akashindwa au kugombea baraza kuu la CCM kabla mimi sijasema,kwa kifupi uko na LOOSER ,wazungu wanasema once a looser always a looser.
style ile ile ya Guninita au Njeru Kasaka walipokosa nafasi CCM walikwenda upinzani kama Wangwe ni Mzigo KITILA alikuwa mara mbili ya mzigo ndio maana hakuwahi kushinda chaguzi hata moja ndani ya CCM, baadae anasema kuwa alikatwa jina lake na ccm kwa vile damu yake ilikuwa ya upinzani upinzani,swali dogo jiulize CCM wanapochagua wagombea wanapima damu? hayo ndio maneno ya LOOSER siku zote.
WAKATABAHU.
Gembe
JF-Expert Member
- Sep 25, 2007
- 2,483
- 167
ila hawa hawajfukuzana kama nyie..Jenga hoja Bwana Mgaya siyo kuleta Vioja kwa watu wenye hoja!!!
Nadhani ulimaanisha kuwa ccm wafanye yafuatayo:
1. kuondoa suala la udini - kwa sasa ccm ni chama cha kiislam
2. kusimamia vizuri pesa za watanzania - wasiibe pesa BoT kufanyia kampeni
3. Kuondoa mafisadi kwenye uongozi wa juu wa chama.
Zaidi ya hapo, wewe huna hoja ya msingi kama kweli unadai haki.
kilichofanyika kwa chenge na lowasa ni nini?
Hollo
JF-Expert Member
- Apr 21, 2008
- 830
- 165
Wangwe nae kaiba?anawaambia Ruzuku ifike na wilayani!hamsikii ngonjeni 2010!mtashinda kwa kura za mkoa wa kilimanjaro!na TZ ina mikoa ya kumwanga tu!
Mwafrika wa Kike
JF-Expert Member
- Jul 5, 2007
- 5,185
- 65
Haya yote bado hujaleta uthibitisho wa Kitila kuwa NCCR na TLP. Leta uthibitisho ambao ulidai unao, umeombwa kitu kimoja tu na Kitila - uthibitisho na bado hujauleta.
Labda nikuulize wewe, aliyekula pesa za Watanzania ni Kikwete au Lowassa?
wewe na hicho chama chenu cha kiislam mtaishia jela hivi karibuni kwa kuiiba mali ya watanzania.
Pundit
JF-Expert Member
- Feb 4, 2007
- 3,733
- 148
If you think a loose cannon like Wangwe is fit for national party leadership you are either not wishing that party well (being from CCM I am not surprised) or have bigger issues yourself.
The guy could not say "baraza la mawaziri" inparlieament! he started with baraza la madiwani, then baraza la wabunge, then finally baraza la mawaziri, he was rumbling like he is at some kijiwe instead of in parliament.
But then again what do I expect from an inexactitude electorate?
Gembe
JF-Expert Member
- Sep 25, 2007
- 2,483
- 167
Ukiishiwa maneno,una copy na kupaste na kubadilisha kidogo,Mie siyo kilaza Mzee kama..
1.CCM siyo chama Cha kiislam labda unegesoma kina viongozi wengi waislam.
2.CCM haismamii PESA za Serikali bali ni Watendaji wa Serikali hufanya kazi hiyo.
3.Ni nani na nani ambaye ni kiongozi wa juu unataka CCM imtoe na uwe na uhakika na ushahidi ni FISADI?
Gembe
JF-Expert Member
- Sep 25, 2007
- 2,483
- 167
Why did you choose him at the first Place?au hamkumjua ni mtu wa namna gani?
Kaanzia wilayani,akaja mkoani then Taifa..sas ahivi hafai kwa sababu zipi?
Pundit tell us the Reality and not what is not real
Kuhani
JF-Expert Member
- Apr 2, 2008
- 2,944
- 79
MWFK,
Ulichokifanya hapo kinakosekana sana hapa JF: kukumbuka mtu alichosema wiki iliyopita au jana au mwezi uliopita na kum hold accountable to it in the future.
Hio ndio poa hiyo, mtu akisema kitu cha kizushi, akabanwa, akakataa kukifuta, tusimpe tena credibility.
We hata hukuwepo kwenye hiyo discussion wakati akirusha zile unsubstantiated scuttlebutt kwa Kitila. Lakini ulipokuja ukatulia, ukasoma yote ya nyuma kupata sense ya mtiririko wa hoja na credibity ya mtu.
Ukakuta hakuna, ukamuuliza akajiuma uma, ukamwita anavyo stahili: hana credibility.
Good job there.