Cosmic Singularity: Je, hii ni hoja inayojitosheleza kueleza ulimwengu ulivyoumbwa?

Kiranga · Aug 2, 2025

raslimali said:
Let's us take it that way. Where did energy come from. I don't want to use terms like eternal or some misleading terms.

Kwanza kabisa, maswali kama "where" "from" ni maswali yanayohusiana na causality, time, space, na mambo haya yanahitajika kufikiriwa upya na kwa undani zaidi.

Mambo kama quantum physics yanaweza kutuongoza.

Katika quantum physics, kwa kadiri tunavyoelewa mpaka sasa, kuna vitu kama virtual particles huwa vinatokea tu. From nowhere. Vina pop up tu kwenye spacetime. From the very fabric of spacetime.

Sasa hapo ukitafuta where did these virtual particles come from, utakuwa unatumia mental model ya classical physics katika quantum physics.

Logical non sequitur fallacy.

Yani kwa sababu unaona causality inafanya kazi katika scale yetu ya ulimwengu, si lazima iwe hivyo katika scales zote za ulimwengu.

Katika quantum realm maswali yako yote yanakosa maana.

So, can we look at the universe as a whole, and not just operate with anthropic bias? Can we look at the equations too, not just look at the human experience?

Halafu kwa nini unafikiri dhana ya eternal ni misleading? Unaweza kuthibitisha kuwa dhana ya eternal ni misleading?

raslimali · Aug 2, 2025

min -me said:
Ukiuliza imetoka wapi? Ukipata jibu ,utaulizia pia hilo jibu kuwa imetoka wapi to infinity, ila kwa binafsi yangu naona kila kitu kipo kwenye cycl

Hilo ndilo jibu linalotakiwa kutafutwa. Hiyo Cycle imeanzia wapi? And who/ what started it??

min -me said:
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min -me · Aug 2, 2025

raslimali said:
Hilo ndilo jibu linalotakiwa kutafutwa. Hiyo Cycle imeanzia wapi? And who/ what started it??

Cycle ni duara tu ambalo ni endelevu halina mwanzo wala mwisho.

raslimali · Aug 2, 2025

Kiranga said:
Kwanza kabisa, maswali kama "where" "from" ni maswali yanayohusiana na causality, time, space, na mambo haya yanahitajika kufikiriwa upya nankwa undani zaidi.

Mambo kama quantum physics yanaweza kutuongoza.

Katika quantum physics, kwa kadiri tunavyoelewa mpaka sasa, kuna vitu kama virtual particles huwa vinatokea tu. From nowhere. Vina pop up tu kwenye spacetime. From the very fabric of spacetime.

Sasa hapo ukitafuta where did these virtual particles come from, utakuwa unatumia mental model ya classical physics katika quantum physics.

Logical non sequitur fallacy.

Yani kwa sababu unaona causality inafanya kazi katika scale yetu ya ulimwengu, si lazima iwe hivyo katika scales zote za ulimwengu.

Katika quantum realm maswali yako yote yanakosa maana.

So, can we look at the universe as a whole, and not just operate with anthropic bias? Can we look at tge equations too, not just look at the human experience?

Halafu kwa nini unafikiri dhana ya eternal ni misleading? Unaweza kuthibitisha kuwa dhana ya eternal ni misleading?

Nashukuru sana ndugu umekuja. Kusema eternity nilitaka kuzuia mawazo ya kiimani maana I wanted this to be a purely scientific debate. Let's go on.

raslimali · Aug 2, 2025

min -me said:
Cycle ni duara tu ambalo ni endelevu halina mwanzo wala mwisho.

Unaweza kuchora cycle?

raslimali · Aug 2, 2025

Kiranga said:
Kwanza kabisa, maswali kama "where" "from" ni maswali yanayohusiana na causality, time, space, na mambo haya yanahitajika kufikiriwa upya nankwa undani zaidi.

Mambo kama quantum physics yanaweza kutuongoza.

Katika quantum physics, kwa kadiri tunavyoelewa mpaka sasa, kuna vitu kama virtual particles huwa vinatokea tu. From nowhere. Vina pop up tu kwenye spacetime. From the very fabric of spacetime.

Sasa hapo ukitafuta where did these virtual particles come from, utakuwa unatumia mental model ya classical physics katika quantum physics.

Logical non sequitur fallacy.

Yani kwa sababu unaona causality inafanya kazi katika scale yetu ya ulimwengu, si lazima iwe hivyo katika scales zote za ulimwengu.

Katika quantum realm maswali yako yote yanakosa maana.

So, can we look at the universe as a whole, and not just operate with anthropic bias? Can we look at tge equations too, not just look at the human experience?

Halafu kwa nini unafikiri dhana ya eternal ni misleading? Unaweza kuthibitisha kuwa dhana ya eternal ni misleading?

Kiranga · Aug 2, 2025

raslimali said:
Nashukuru sana ndugu umekuja. Kusema eternity nilitaka kuzuia mawazo ya kiimani maana I wanted this to be a purely scientific debate. Let's go on.

Mini ni atheist sipo katika mawazo ya imani.

From a purely scientific side, eternity ina tatizo gani?

Kuna kanuni gani ya kisayansi inayokataza eternity?

Yani unaweza vipi kujenga hoja ya kisayansi kuonesha kuwa ulimwengu haiwezekani uwe umekuwapo tu bila ya kuwa na mwanzo?

raslimali · Aug 2, 2025

My genuine inquiry is: How did the universe evolve? If a tiny QUANTUM SINGULARITY contained all the properties of our universe, three space dimensions and a time dimension, how did these properties emerge?

Joseph Gadiel · Aug 2, 2025

Hapakuwa na Kabla, Kabla muda haujaumbwa, Yaani neno kabla maana yake linahusisha muda, hivyo unaposema kabla muda haujaumbwa (before singularity) inakuwa haina maana. Ni sawa na kuuliza North of North Pole

raslimali · Aug 2, 2025

Joseph Gadiel said:
Hapakuwa na Kabla, Kabla muda haujaumbwa, Yaani neno kabla maana yake linahusisha muda, hivyo unaposema kabla muda haujaumbwa (before singularity) inakuwa haina maana. Ni sawa na kuuliza North of North Pole

Nimekuelewa vizuri. Zipo nadharia pia za blackholes ambapo time either doesn't count. HOW WAS TIME CREATED?

Joseph Gadiel · Aug 2, 2025

Kiranga said:
Kwanza kabisa, maswali kama "where" "from" ni maswali yanayohusiana na causality, time, space, na mambo haya yanahitajika kufikiriwa upya nankwa undani zaidi.

Mambo kama quantum physics yanaweza kutuongoza.

Katika quantum physics, kwa kadiri tunavyoelewa mpaka sasa, kuna vitu kama virtual particles huwa vinatokea tu. From nowhere. Vina pop up tu kwenye spacetime. From the very fabric of spacetime.

Sasa hapo ukitafuta where did these virtual particles come from, utakuwa unatumia mental model ya classical physics katika quantum physics.

Logical non sequitur fallacy.

Yani kwa sababu unaona causality inafanya kazi katika scale yetu ya ulimwengu, si lazima iwe hivyo katika scales zote za ulimwengu.

Katika quantum realm maswali yako yote yanakosa maana.

So, can we look at the universe as a whole, and not just operate with anthropic bias? Can we look at tge equations too, not just look at the human experience?

Halafu kwa nini unafikiri dhana ya eternal ni misleading? Unaweza kuthibitisha kuwa dhana ya eternal ni misleading?

Well explained 👏

Kiranga · Aug 2, 2025

raslimali said:
Hilo ndilo jibu linalotakiwa kutafutwa. Hiyo Cycle imeanzia wapi? And who/ what started it??

Kwa nini unaona ni lazima ianzie sehemu?

Unafahamu dhana ya quantum loop causality ambayo inakuwa ni cycle ya A is causing B but B is also causing A and between A and B you cannot say which comes first?

Kitombile · Aug 2, 2025

raslimali said:
Naomba wale wenye uelewa tujadili. When time (t) was t=0, and space and matter were not existing, hiyo singularity point ilitokea wapi mpaka kuleta Big Bang iliyoumba ulimwengu? Is it just a mathematical way of explaining things that have baffled human minds? Will our minds ever grasp the mystery behind what we call "existence"?

Ukiona unatumia nguvu kubwa kuelewesha watu na kuelewa ujue hata wewe hujui kitu chochote zaidi ya kukariri, hii kitu mbona ina simple explanation.

dosho12 · Aug 2, 2025

Kiranga said:
Kwa nini unaona ni lazima ianzie sehemu?

Unafahamu dhana ya quantum loop causality ambayo inakuwa ni cycle ya A is causing B but B is also causing A and between A and B you cannot say which comes first?

Kweli kutokana na karshalav scale ( jina naweza kuwa sijaandika vizuri) inayohusu development ya civilization na kadri tunavyozidi ku advance ndio tunakuwa na uwezo mkubwa zaadi ukijumuisha na Quantum computer, hivyo kuna uwezakano sisi wenyewe ndio tumetengeneza/tutatengeneza ulimwengu

fazili · Aug 2, 2025

Mjue kuwa ulimwengu/universe vimekuwepo katika hali tofauti tofauti kila wakati na pia vimeonwa na viumbe tofauti kwa hali tofauti na hivyo swala la time and space ni la viumbe kuliona kivyao na linabadilika kila wakati na pahali. Hivyo perpetual randomness na relativity ndio vitu vya kuzingatia.

min -me said:
Singularity haikutokea popote , yenyewe ndio chanzo cha kila kitu ikiwemo na muda na nafasi, hivyo bila singularity hakukua na mahali wa muda .

Kwa hiyo kuuliza ilitokea wapi maana yake hakuta kuwa na maana kwa sababu nadharia imekataa uwepo wa mahali na muda kabla ya singularity.

raslimali said:
Primordial singularity inasema ni point moja ambapo all matter,space , energy and time was compressed in a tiny point. Lakini haisemi hizo components zilitokea vipi.

synonym II · Aug 2, 2025

Kiranga said:
Yani unaweza vipi kujenga hoja ya kisayansi kuonesha kuwa ulimwengu haiwezekani uwe umekuwapo tu bila ya kuwa na mwanzo?

Causality principle

Hii ni moja ya kanuni kuu iliyotamalaki katika sayansi ya fizikia, baiolojia na kemia kuwa "kila tokeo/tukio lina kichocheo/kisababishi"

Lax · Aug 2, 2025

Kutafuta starting point ya ulimwengu ni kazi ngumu

synonym II · Aug 2, 2025

raslimali said:
My genuine inquiry is: How did the universe evolve? If a tiny QUANTUM SINGULARITY contained all the properties of our universe, three space dimensions and a time dimension, how did these properties emerge?

Hichi ni moja kati ya vitendawili vikubwa ambavyo havijang'amuliwa katika fizikia, hadi leo tasnia ya sayansi haina nadharia inayotoa ubainifu wenye hoja timilifu (logic) zenye kukifu, nadharia e.g. string theory & quantum loop zinapelea maarifa na mnyumbuliko wa hoja

synonym II · Aug 2, 2025

min -me said:
Ukiuliza imetoka wapi? Ukipata jibu ,utaulizia pia hilo jibu kuwa imetoka wapi to infinity, ila kwa binafsi yangu naona kila kitu kipo kwenye cycle tu🤔

Sure, ni infinite regress fallacy, hapa ndipo wanatheolojia na wanafalsafa walipojenga premises ya nesessary being (first uncaused cause e.g. GOD) na contingency

Kiranga · Aug 2, 2025

synonym II said:
Causality principle

Hii ni moja ya kanuni kuu iliyotamalaki katika sayansi ya fizikia, baiolojia na kemia kuwa "kila tokeo/tukio lina kichocheo/kisababishi"

Kwanza kabisa huo ni uelewa finyu wa fizikia.

Hususan ni uelewa uliojikita katika Newtonian Mechanics. Ukizama katika quantum physics utakutana na quantum loop causality ambayo A causes B but B also is the cause of A and therefore there is a causality loop, huwezi kusema A ndiyo inaaanza kusababisha B au B ndiyo inaanza kusababisha B.

Lakini pia, kama causality ni muhinu sana, na hakuna kitu kinachotokea tu, kila kitu ni lazima kisababishwe na kingine, that is an argument for an eternal universe, it is not an argument against an eternal universe.

Kwa sababu, kama kila kitu ni lazima kianzishwe na kingine, basi ulimwengu hauna mwanzo, chochote utakachosema hiki ni mwanzo wa ulimwengu nacho lazima kitakuwa na kingine kilichokisababisha kwa kufuata kanuni za causality kwamba kitu hakiwezi kuwepo tu.

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Cosmic Singularity: Je, hii ni hoja inayojitosheleza kueleza ulimwengu ulivyoumbwa?

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