God's Conscience vs Free Will: Je, Mungu anajua hatima ya wanadamu itakuwaje?

[allypipi]

Niongeze popcorn kufatilia huu mtanange maana zile za kwanza zimeisha.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Kuumwa tumbo ni kusudi jema kwa upande wa nani?

Wakati unaelezea hayo mambo ya magonjwa na mechanism za seli ambazo huzeeka na kudunisha kinga ya mwili na kunfanya mtu aumwe ma hatimaye afe, bado mifano hiyo unataka kuitumia kumuelezea Mungu mwenye uoendo wote?

Mifano hiyo bado unataka kuitumia kumuelezea Mubgu mwenye uwezo wote ambaye hana sababu ya kuwa na kiumbe chenye imperfection?

Kuumwa tumbo ni kusudi jema kwa hiyo being nzima, kuanzia mtu [kama consciousness ya mtu], mtu kama mwili wa mtu, na hizo seli za tumbo na hata seli zote za mwili wa huyo mtu......... in fact ni chema kwa mke/mme wa huyo mtu, familia ya huyo mtu, jamii na taifa na dunia kwa ujumla. WHY? Tumbo linapouma tunakuwa na taarifa wote kwamba kuna kitu hakiko sawa na juhudi zinafanyika tunarudisha AFYA kwa mtu husika ambaye uwepo wake ni faida kwa wote.

Sisi ni finite, I mean miili yetu ina mwisho na hata hilo jambo la miili yetu kuisha ina kusudi jema pia🤭. Purely materialist kuelewa hilo labda chukulia metamofosisi za kipepeo. Kutoka lifunza [caterpillar] kula majani, na kutembelea tumbo ardhini na mtini tu[kuelekea kushoto au kulia tu] kufa kuwekwa kwenye jeneza[buu] hadi kuwa kakipepeo kufyonza nekta tamu na kupaa angani[kuelekea kushoto, kulia, juu, chini, kujongea kushoto-chini, kushoto-juu, kulia-chini na kulia juu au ku hover palepale maybe!] kuvuka mito na kuishi popote na kuvinjari almost msitu wote. There is season and purpose thereof.

Tuna shida moja tu hapa: Mungu inafahamika ni hana mwisho[infinity] na vyote tulivyonavyo duniani vina mwisho [finite] hivyo hakuna mfano hata mmoja utakaoshibisha picha kamili ya Mungu. Hilo wote tunakubaliana. Mifano tunayotoa inajaribu kugusia sifa chache za ukuu wake, ni analojia zisizo kamili. Mfano wa mwili na seli zake umetumika kuonesha kuwa kuna kusudi jema katika maumivu yetu na umeelezea vizuri hilo, that is all.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Niongeze popcorn kufatilia huu mtanange maana zile za kwanza zimeisha.

Karibu sana mkuu, karibu saaaaaaaaana.

 

[Kiranga]

Tupo huru kwa yale tunayopaswa kuwa huru nayo, na ipo mipaka kwa yale tusiyohitajika kuyafanya kadiri ya maisha yetu duniani yanavyotupasa. Kama ambavyo mtu wako yupo huru kuchagua rangi za magari kadri ya rangi zilizopo za magari. Asijitungie tu nataka gari la rangi 'transparent. au urujuani au udhurungi rangi ambazo hata haziwekwagi kwenye magari!! ni fujo tu za huyo mtu anataka kuonesha umemfungia machaguo.

Nakubali kuna mipaka, na hilo halinifanyi kujihisi siko huru - nipo huru ndani ya mipaka hiyo. Ninautumia uhuru wangu kuchagua[kwa mambo yanayopaswa kuchaguliwa], kumtii na kuitii na kuiheshimu mipaka yake.

Ninamuamini aliyeweka mipaka ya kuwa ana lengo zuri na sisi hivyo ninaifurahia hadi hiyo mipaka yenyewe naipenda.

Ukishaambiwa una uhuru wa kuchagua gari la rangi yoyote, as long as ni jeusi, hujapewa uhuru wa kuchagua rangi ya gari hapo.

 

[Kiranga]

Hapana: Labda kusaidiana tutumie kiingereza. In English we have, belief, faith,and trust. Those are arranged in order of knowingness involved. There is almost no knowledge in belief, there is balanced known and unknown in faith[but you have full trust anyway], and almost full knowledge in things you trust. Kwa kiswahili tuna neno moja tu imani basi. Hence unaweza kukijua unachokiamini kwa kizungu wanaita trust.

Ujuzi na imani[faith] vinahusika kujua kila jambo lina kusudi.

Uelewa wangu hautoshi, mimi na wengine wote hata wewe tunategemea pia ufunuo ili kuipata picha kamili zaidi ya ulimwengu na sio uelewa kama uelewa pekee.

Second law of ther........ brother hii material universe unayoiona ni hatua tu ni kama mageuko ya kipepeo. Purely materialist kuelewa hilo labda chukulia metamofosisi za kipepeo. Kutoka lifunza [caterpillar] kula majani, na kutembelea tumbo ardhini na mtini tu[kuelekea kushoto au kulia tu] kufa kuwekwa kwenye jeneza[buu] hadi kuwa kakipepeo kufyonza nekta tamu na kupaa angani[kuelekea kushoto, kulia, juu, chini, kujongea kushoto-chini, kushoto-juu, kulia-chini na kulia juu au ku hover palepale maybe!] kuvuka mito na kuishi popote na kuvinjari almost msitu wote. Watu wanaoamini uwepo zaidi ya material wala hawatishwi na mabadiliko madogomadogo ya kiumbo ikijumuisha kifo cha maada wanafahamu kuwa yajayo yanafurahisha zaidi, na yana uhuru zaidi.

Aliweza na ndio huu ulimwengu niliopo wenye maisha, mzuri na hauna lawama. Ila ujinga unao ili tuendelee kujifunza, na njaa unayo ili tuendelee kujishibisha. Kiufupi unaruhusu MAISHA. Karibu pia huku, ukipenda

If you trust, you don't know. That is why you trust.

Tunasema "I trust you are in good health". Maana yake, I do not know that you are in good health, but I think you are in good health.

Hujathibitisha Mungu yupo.

Huwezi kuthibitisha Mungu yupo.

Kwa sababu hayupo.

Kama unabisha, thibitisha Mungu yupo.

 

[Kiranga]

Okay sawa

Dhana ya kuwapo Mungu ni logical na ni consistent kwa premise ya/za upande huu. Sio logical wala sio consinstent katika premise yako/zako. Mfano wa premise zinazotrendi huku ni To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven - Ecclesiastes. Everything have a purpose broh, a very good one just trust the process.

Hata ukisema to everything there is a reason, kwanza kabisa, hiyo reason si lazima iwe Mungu.

Pili, ukifuata hiyo principle, hata Mungu naye atahitaji reason ya kuwapo, na akishahitaji reason, huyo anakuwa si Mungu, kwa sababu Mungu anatakiwa kuwa self contained.

Kwa hivyo kanuni yako ya "to every thing, there is a reason" inatuonesha Mungu mjuzi wa yote, mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote hawezi kuwepo.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Ukishaambiwa una uhuru wa kuchagua gari la rangi yoyote, as long as ni jeusi, hujapewa uhuru wa kuchagua rangi ya gari hapo.

Hii mbona nilikubali. Ni kweli katika mfano huo hapo uhuru haupo.

Japo pia hii ni analojia ya hali ambayo haipo katika imani, katika mambo unayotakiwa kuchagua kweli. Au bro umejiona kuwa umewekwa katika kifungo huko uliko. Kama ni hivyo basi si utoke huko mara moja, njoo kwenye uhuru ndani ya imani kwa YESU, na Mungu na mitume na milele isiyo na mwisho

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Hata ukisema to everything there is a reason, kwanza kabisa, hiyo reason si lazima iwe Mungu.

Pili, ukifuata hiyo principle, hata Mungu naye atahitaji reason ya kuwapo, na akishahitaji reason, huyo anakuwa si Mungu, kwa sababu Mungu anatakiwa kuwa self contained.

Kwa hivyo kanuni yako ya "to every thing, there is a reason" inatuonesha Mungu mjuzi wa yote, mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote hawezi kuwepo.

😂😂😂😂😂 daah! hii ni hatari na nusu duuuh! asee!

Sir not everything is a thing broh, some of them are beings that is why He best described himself as 'I AM THAT I AM'.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

If you trust, you don't know. That is why you trust.

Tunasema "I trust you are in good health". Maana yake, I do not know that you are in good health, but I think you are in good health.

Hujathibitisha Mungu yupo.

Huwezi kuthibitisha Mungu yupo.

Kwa sababu hayupo.

Kama unabisha, thibitisha Mungu yupo.

I almost forgot that in your world you people can never know anything, and it is for the very reason that you can not trust anything. Kwa hiyo hii know unaiongelea tu kufurahisha genge lakini najua hiki ni kitu your kind is incapable of experiencing knowing as we know it[hamnao uwezo wa kujua kwa sababu hamuwezi kuamini].

I agree with your example. I even affirmed that there is 'almost' complete knowledge in the issues of trust.

Nilishajithibitishia Mungu yupo, Siwezi kukuthibitishia Mungu yupo, Yupo, na Not relevant, respectivelly.

 

[Kiranga]

Hii mbona nilikubali. Ni kweli katika mfano huo hapo uhuru haupo.

Japo pia hii ni analojia ya hali ambayo haipo katika imani, katika mambo unayotakiwa kuchagua kweli. Au bro umejiona kuwa umewekwa katika kifungo huko uliko. Kama ni hivyo basi si utoke huko mara moja, njoo kwenye uhuru ndani ya imani kwa YESU, na Mungu na mitume na milele isiyo na mwisho

Nakwambia hivi, katika maisha haya yenye vipingamizi vingi kwenye uhuru wako, huna freewill.

Una illussion tu ya freewill.

Wewe huchagui unazaliwa wapi, unazaliwa na wazazi gani, utakuwa na genetics gani, unazaliwa mwaka gani.

Mambo mengi yanatokana na ajali ya kuzaliwa, si mipango yako.

 

[Kiranga]

😂😂😂😂😂 daah! hii ni hatari na nusu duuuh! asee!

Sir not everything is a thing broh, some of them are beings that is why He best described himself as 'I AM THAT I AM'.

"not everything is a thing"

This is a contradiction.

Ni kama umeandika "Si kila mtu ni mtu.".

Of course kila mtu ni mtu.

Of course everything is a thing, that is why you mention "everything".

 

[Kiranga]

I almost forgot that in your world you people can never know anything, and it is for the very reason that you can not trust anything. Kwa hiyo hii know unaiongelea tu kufurahisha genge lakini najua hiki ni kitu your kind is incapable of experiencing knowing as we know it[hamnao uwezo wa kujua kwa sababu hamuwezi kuamini].

I agree with your example. I even affirmed that there is 'almost' complete knowledge in the issues of trust.

Nilishajithibitishia Mungu yupo, Siwezi kukuthibitishia Mungu yupo, Yupo, na Not relevant, respectivelly.

Huwezi kuthibitisha Mungu yupo, kwa sababu hayupo.

Kama unabisha, thibitisha Mungu yupo.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

"not everything is a thing"

This is a contradiction.

Not at all in my world. Do you realize that the world 'everything' to me and 'everything' to you[a materialist] are two different things at least in terms of scope?

I was laughing when I was typing that forgive me for not clarifying it far enough so as to fit logics of your world.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Nakwambia hivi, katika maisha haya yenye vipingamizi vingi kwenye uhuru wako, huna freewill.

Una illussion tu ya freewill.

Wewe huchagui unazaliwa wapi, unazaliwa na wazazi gani, utakuwa na genetics gani, unazaliwa mwaka gani.

Mambo mengi yanatokana na ajali ya kuzaliwa, si mipango yako.

Synonym alishalimaliza hili suala, alisema kuna matendo ambayo mtu atahukumiwa nayo na mengine hatahukumiwa nayo. Nakubali uwepo wa hizo 'ajali' mda mwingine lakini siwezi kuuweka mustakabali wa maisha yote chini ya mambo tusiyoyaendesha sisi kama sisi. Zipo chaguzi nyingi tu za kuitikia hizo unazoziita 'ajali' na zipo chini ya utashihuru wako -FREEWILL

Kaka zipo hatua za kun'gamua na kubeba majukumu na kadri unavyokuwa na majukumu zaidi ndio unazidi kuwa na uwezo zaidi. Na uwezo ni simply uamrishaji wa will yako, hivyo ni uhuru zaidi:

 

[Kiranga]

Not at all in my world. Do you realize that the world 'everything' to me and 'everything' to you[a materialist] are two different things at least in terms of scope?

I was laughing when I was typing that forgive me for not clarifying it far enough so as to fit logics of your world.

You are contradicting yourself, because you are making things up as you go.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Huwezi kuthibitisha Mungu yupo, kwa sababu hayupo.

Kama unabisha, thibitisha Mungu yupo.

Kingine hiki tena unatuchimba tu hapa.

Unadhani hatujui kwamba katika dunia yako hata suala la uthibitisho tu halipo. Katika eneo ambapo hakuna imani [trust/faith] basi kiotomati hapo hakuna uthibitisho.

Ili nikuthibitishie Kirangaa, ni lazima uje katika dunia/[uhalisia] yangu. Na ukishakuja huku unadhani nitahangaika kukuthibitishia. La. Hapohapo utakuwa umeshajithibitishia kiotomati mwenyeweee.

 

[Kiranga]

Synonym alishalimaliza hili suala, alisema kuna matendo ambayo mtu atahukumiwa nayo na mengine hatahukumiwa nayo. Nakubali uwepo wa hizo 'ajali' mda mwingine lakini siwezi kuuweka mustakabali wa maisha yote chini ya mambo tusiyoyaendesha sisi kama sisi. Zipo chaguzi nyingi tu za kuitikia hizo unazoziita 'ajali' na zipo chini ya utashihuru wako -FREEWILL

Kaka zipo hatua za kun'gamua na kubeba majukumu na kadri unavyokuwa na majukumu zaidi ndio unazidi kuwa na uwezo zaidi. Na uwezo ni simply uamrishaji wa will yako, hivyo ni uhuru zaidi:View attachment 2252383

Ukishikilia kwamba kila kitu kina sababu, kimsingi unakataa uwepo wa Mungu. Kwa sababu utatakiwa uwe na sababu ya kuwepo Mungu, na ukishakuwa na sababu ya kuwepo Mungu, huyo anaacha kuwa Mungu.


Ukikubali kwamba kuna vitu vinaweza kuwepo bila sababu, akiwemo Mungu, unaweka uwezekano wa ulimwengu kuwepo bila Mungu, kwa sababu, moja ya sababu kubwa inayojustify kuwapo Mungu ni yeye kuwa sababu ya vyote. Ukisharuhusu chochote kuweza kuwepo bila sababu, umeonesha uwezekano wa ulimwengu kuwepo bila Mungu.

Hivyo, ukisema kila kitu kina sababu au ukisema kuna kitu hata kimoja kinaweza kuwepo bila sababu, hizo fikra zote mbili zinatupeleka kwenye ulimwengu ambao hauna Mungu.

 

[Kiranga]

Kingine hiki tena unatuchimba tu hapa.

Unadhani hatujui kwamba katika dunia yako hata suala la uthibitisho tu halipo. Katika eneo ambapo hakuna imani [trust/faith] basi kiotomati hapo hakuna uthibitisho.

Ili nikuthibitishie Kirangaa, ni lazima uje katika dunia/[uhalisia] yangu. Na ukishakuja huku unadhani nitahangaika kukuthibitishia. La. Hapohapo utakuwa umeshajithibitishia kiotomati mwenyeweee.

Nakwambia hivi, huwezi kuthibitisha kimantiki kwamba Mungu yupo.

Katika dunia yoyote.

Kama unabisha, thibitisha.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

You are contradicting yourself, because you are making things up as you go.

I know, and understand your concerns. It is not the first time you doubt a lot of things are made up things.

Trust me[if you may even try] I meant to affirm not everything is a thing[material] some things are beings[imaterial]. The being called God is 'I AM THAT I AM', it means it just IS......BEING not a thing that require purpose or cause to be, the One that causes everything else and IS everything.

 

[Adolph Jr]

Ngoja nikupe mfano

Mimi ni mfanya biashara ninaye endesha maduka mawili katika eneo moja hapa mjini. Duka langu moja linajihusisha na uuzaji wa silaha na lingine linajihusisha na maswala ya kimichezo

Kwa bahati nikatembelewa na mtu wangu naye mjua anaitwa Calvin, Calvin akataka kununua silaha nzito ila akanieleza kuwa anachukizwa na hao mabinti waliopo kwenye duka langu la michezo na kwa hivyo basi anaenda kuwafundisha adabu

Calvin akaniomba nimuuzie package ya risasi kwa ajili ya silaha, nikamuuzia

Calvin akasema anaenda kuua watu wote waliopo katika eneo hilo, nikamuambia usifanye hivyo. Nikamuambia ni jambo baya sana hutakiwi kufanya

Calvin akaniambia nimfundishe namna ya ku shoot silaha, nikamfundisha

Nikamuonya tena kuwa hupaswi kwenda kutumia hii silaha ku shoot watu

Calvin akatoka na silaha na kwenda kuua kila mtu aliyekuwepo kwenye lile duka linalo jihusisha na michezo

Polisi walivyokuwa wakinihoji nikawasimulia stori nzima ilivyokuwa na nikiwaambia kuwa sio kosa langu ila ni Calvin alikuwa na freewill na nilimuonya asifanye hivyo.

Watu wengi wangeniwajibisha kwa ku-base tu kwenye yale yaliyokuwa sawa kufikiri kwamba Calvin angefanya kutokana na yale ambayo Calvin aliyosema kabla ya kuondoka kwenye duka langu.

Kama nawajibika kwenye sehemu ya mauaji, vipi kuhusiana na Mungu ambaye alimpa Calvin maisha akijua kwa hakika nini Calvin ataenda kufanya kwenye hayo maisha?

Mimi nilijua kidogo tu nini Calvin angeenda kufanya kupitia silaha niliyomuuzia. Lakini nimewajibika

Mungu alijua kwa hakika na anaweza kuzuia chochote. Au vinginevyo Mungu hakujua, au Mungu hana uwezo wote

Duuuh una IQ ya hatari mmmmh.....yaani umewaza hadi kupitiliza..