History inapingana na wanaosema ''HAKUNA MUNGU'': The simple research you can do to prove it.

[AL SHARPTON]

Mungu - the creator, yupo

 

[Mourinho]

Mungu - the creator, yupo

Yupo wapi?

 

[Mndengereko]

Kuna kitu kimejificha sana kati ya vitu hivi
Mungu, Dini pamoja na Dunia

Mungu yupo na ataendelea kuwepo Maandiko yanasema hivyo

Mtu anasema Mungu hayupo ni wale tunaowaita "Mr I know Everything" na siku zote njia zao ni fupi sana

Walikuwepo watu wa hivyo duniani
Waulize kina Herode, na Pharao
Yaliyowakuta wanawajua wao


"Uzungu" na "Elimu ya Magharibi" ni kansa inayomaliza watu kimya kimya

mkuu i stand im ur side kwamba mungu yupo lakini kama unataka kumuaminisha mtu asiyeamini katika dini uwepo wa mungu its better kutotumia imani rather tutumie uthibitisho wa kisayansi.

 

[Mndengereko]

Bahati mbaya umetoka nje ya mada nimekuletea proven facts kama Timbuktu, Lugha, Tamaduni, Egypt, Serikali na sijakuwekea reference ya andiko hata moja kama hujanielewa nimekupa ushahidi wa uwepo wa spiritual beings kabla ya kusambaa kwa dini.

swali je ni fiction?

mkuu umeelezea vizuri sana nimependa hujahusisha matumizi ya vitabu vya dini ili wasio kuwa na imani katika dini wapate na wenyewe kuchangia na kutathmini,kuwepo kwa spiritual being kunapelekea kuwepo kwa super natural being ambae very posible atakuwa creator na controller wa kila kitu ulimwenguni hapa.and he should be one only one.

 

[Mndengereko]

Nimeomba mleta mada afafanue anapoandika mungu anamaanisha nini, hakijibu.

Mimi sipo katika kukubali "nguvu za giza", kwa sababu sikubali kwamba kuna super natural power yoyote.

Kwangu habari za mungu na shetani ni pande mbili za shilingi ile ile.

Zote hazithibitishiki.

Sikubali uwepo wa mungu wala wa shetani.

Na so far hakuna aliyeweza ku prove uwepo wa mungu wala wa shetani.

Kama mungu na shetani wapo, kwa nini mungu mwenye uwezo wote na ujuzi wote na upendo wote aumbe ulimwengu ambao muovu kama shetani anawezekana.kuwepo?

Ina maana alishindwa kuumba ulimwengu ambao shetani hawezekaniki kuwepo?

Au aliweza hakutaka tu?

naomba nijaribu kukujibu hapo chukulia mfano comp ambayo imetengenezwa na kutumia operating system lets say window ,lakini kuna virus ambazo wanaziatack so aliyegundua window ametengeneza anti-virus ambazo ameelekeza nini ufanye ili comp yako isiwe attacked the same applied to mungu na shetani mungu ameweka taratibu za kumfuata yy aliyetugundua sisi binaadamu(window) ili tusiweze kuwa attacked na virus(shetani) kwa kututengenezea anti-virus(dini) kwa maana ya mfumo kamili wa maisha ya binaadamu,kwenye kutanabaisha dini ipi ni sahihi ambayo mungu ametuletea huo ni mjadala mwingine so chaguo ni letu either kufuata masharti ya aliyetuumba au la kama ilivyo kwenye com uamuzi ni wa mtumiaji wa com kuchagua kuweka au kutoweka anti-virus.

 

[Mndengereko]

Hahahahahahahha sasa kati ya wewe na yeye nani ana LIKES nyingi kwenye hoja...

Endeleeni tu sisi tukiona huyu ana hoja tunagonga like

hhhahahaha Kiranga he is somehow right kwenye hoja zake ingawaje i stand kwenye side kwamba mungu yupo and i hate kuona watu wakijaribu kuthibitisha uwepo wa mungu kwa kutumia vitabu vya dini au dini.kwa sababu mtu anaeamini dini tayari anaamini mungu so no need of justification hapo.

 

[middo]

Kama akili ya binadamu haiwezi kuhoji na kumuelewa mungu, wewe umejuaje kwamba mungu kuna vitu kaficha?

Umetumia akili gani?

Halafu mungu gani huyu ana choyo anaficha mambo mazuri kw viumbe wake, halafu hapo hapo anawaambia wasiwe na choyo wawe na upendo?

Huyu mungu mbona kigeugeu?

Hujaweza kuthibitisha kwamba mungu yupo.

Biblia inajichanganya kuanzia mwanzo mpaka ufunuo. Kama hujaona hilo hujaisoma au unaisoma kwa upofu wa imani ya dini.

Nishaweka inconsistencies lukuki hapa.

For starters ona hapa

A List Of Biblical Contradictions

biblia haijajcontradict ila ukiisoma kama unakpmbizwa hutaielewa kamwe, hyo link uliyotoa mwandish wake namfanansha na wale wapga kelele kwenye miadhara ya dini wanachukua kifungu cha maneno bila kukielewa. Kuhusu baba yake Joseph link yako inadai biblia imejchanganya ila yeye ndo kajichanganya, ukisoma Mat 1:16 biblia imeweka wazi kabsa kama baba wa Joseph ni Yakobo ila ukisoma Luk 3:23 biblia imesema Yesu ''alidhaniwa'' kuwa ni mwana wa Joseph wa Eli. Sasa kama neno ''alidhaniwa'' mwandishi wako ameshndwa kujua linamaana gani basi haina maana kuweka link za vilaza kama hao.

 

[Kiranga]

naomba nijaribu kukujibu hapo chukulia mfano comp ambayo imetengenezwa na kutumia operating system lets say window ,lakini kuna virus ambazo wanaziatack so aliyegundua window ametengeneza anti-virus ambazo ameelekeza nini ufanye ili comp yako isiwe attacked the same applied to mungu na shetani mungu ameweka taratibu za kumfuata yy aliyetugundua sisi binaadamu(window) ili tusiweze kuwa attacked na virus(shetani) kwa kututengenezea anti-virus(dini) kwa maana ya mfumo kamili wa maisha ya binaadamu,kwenye kutanabaisha dini ipi ni sahihi ambayo mungu ametuletea huo ni mjadala mwingine so chaguo ni letu either kufuata masharti ya aliyetuumba au la kama ilivyo kwenye com uamuzi ni wa mtumiaji wa com kuchagua kuweka au kutoweka anti-virus.

Well and good.

Except mungu anasemwa kuwa anajua yote, anaweza yote na ana upendo wote.

Which would never be the case for any super nerdy hardware/ software designer.

Kwa hiyo mfano wako ni mbovu, kwa sababu unamlinganisha mungu mwenye kujua yote, kuweza yote na upendo wote na computer system designer ambaye hajui yote, hawezi yote na hana upendo wote.

Your analogy fails especially when you consider that right now, proportionately speaking, Bill Gates - since you mentioned computer systems- is doing more to eradicate polio than this yet imaginary godhead.

Bill Gates is funding a massive polio eradication campaign against unsurpassed odds.

God can do all that and more by a mere thought.

If god is there, all powerful, all knowing, all loving, why doesn't he do better than Bill Gates?

God can eradicate polio this instant, and rid us of this scourge?

Better yet, why would an all loving, all knowing, all capable godhead create a universe in which polio (and AIDS, cancer, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, malaria, heart attacks, dementia, Alzheimer's disease etc) is possible at all?

I bet you if Bill Gates had an option to kill all the computer viruses before the launch of Microsoft he would have done it.

Why wouldn't a goghead with all knowledge, all capability and all love do the same and even more?

On a proportionate "cross multiplication" system, where we compare resources and results, Bill Gates with his limited resources delivers better results than god.

Why can't god, with his unlimited resources, do better than Bill Gates?

 

[Kiranga]

Kujua is a relative term. 1.) Kuna vitu tunavijua kwa sababu vinaeleweka 2.) Kuna vitu tunavijua kwa sababu tunaamini walioelewa 3.) Kuna vitu tunafikiri tunavijua lakini hatuvijuhi 4.) Kuna vitu tunaelewa kuwa hatuvijuhi 5.) kuna vitu vinajulikana lakini hatuvijuhi.

First thing first.

Regarding item 2

Kujua na kuamini ni tofauti kama giza na mwanga, kama usiku totoro na mchana mwangaza.

Within whichever framework. Towards whichever convergence, if at all there is one:-

Ukijua, huamini.

Ukiamini, hujajua.

 

[Kiranga]

Ukisoma huu mtiririko wa majibishano ya hoja kwenye hii thread haishangazi kuona kwa nini sehemu nyingi za ibada katika nchi zilizoendelea ( Nchi za Magharibi) zinageuzwa kuwa migawaha na vilabu huku wananchi wanaoishi nchi za 'dunia ya tatu' wakigeuza majengo ya shule kuwa sehemu za ibada.

Tunaishi kwa misingi ya imani na hiyo imani imetufunga kuutafuta ukweli ndani ya evidence kwa sababu kufanya hivyo katika macho ya imani utakuwa 'unakufuru' (kumkosea Mungu).

Imani zimetujenga katika misingi ya kutokuuliza na hata ukiuliza sana, unaishia kubezwa na kutukanwa kama njia ya kukunyamazisha katika hoja yako. ndiyo yale yale ya 'You're either with us, or against us'.

Mtu kama hajui dawa yake ni kumwelimisha na katika kumwelimisha, lazima ulete vidhibiti vya kudhibitika kwa kile unachomwelimisha.

Imani zetu za dini kuhusu uwepo wa Mungu zimetufunga ili tuzitoke nje ya maandiko na kuanza kuyatingisha kuona kana yanajitoshereza katika ukweli. haishangazi Mtu akiulizwa uwepo wa Mungu anachofanya ni kukupa vifungu vya Biblia au Quran kama ndiyo jibu.

Socrates alishawahi kusema, The more you know, the more you realize you know nothing.

This should be played at high volume, probably in a residential ares - A Dr. Dre prescription skit from "The Chronic".

 

[Kiranga]

Kwikwikwi. Hapana mkuu. Nauangalia mjadala huu kutoka angle nyingine kabisa. Kwa upande wangu kutomjua mungu haina maana kuwa mungu hayupo. Vilevile kumjua mungu haina maana kuwa mungu yupo kwa sababu mungu unayemjua wewe na mungu wa watu wengine anaweza kuwa tofauti.

Kwa mfano wamasai wanaamini mungu mmoja. Mungu huyu kawapa wamasai ng'ombe na watu wa makabila mengine wameiba ng'ombe kutoka kwa wamasai. Hivyo ni haki ya mmasai kurudisha ng'ombe kutoka kwa watu wa makabila mengine. Kwa mawazo ya mmasai, msukuma ana haki ya kumiliki ng'ombe.

Mzee wa kimasai akitoa somo hili kwa wajukuu wake wataamini na kufikiri kuwa wanajua.

Hii ndiyo sababu kabla ya kujibu maswali/ hoja mara nyingi nauliza definitions.

Mtu anaweza kukuuliza "Unaamini kwamba mungu yupo?" wakati katika mafunzo yake uwepo wa mungu unathibitishwa na uwezo wa mwanadamu kuuliza swali.

To paraphrase Descartes, "I think and ask, therefore god exists".

Sasa mtu kama huyu jibu lolote utakalompa ku question uwepo wa mungu litakuwa haliwezi kufanya hilo.

Kwa sababu swali lake tu lishathibitisha kwamba mungu yupo!

Sasa watu wengine ukiwauliza definitive questions, kwa mfano, questions that would help narrow down their definition of god ( biblical, quranic, logical etc) wanaona kama una deflect questions in an obscurantist fashion.

It is very important that you brought up this point.

Until one defines which god one is referring to, discussing that god's attributes is a futile exercise.

One that in a Selassian asymptote will remain to be pursued, but never attained.

 

[LILONGO]

hasason
Hawa wanaojiita atheists naomba niwaambie sio kila kitu mzungu anachowadangaya na nyie mnadanganyika kwa bei ya peremende unajua kabla hujakubali au kukanusha jambo unatakiwa ujirithishe kwa facts.

Mkuu, we are all born atheists.Mtoto mchanga anazaliwa hana dini.Mazingira ya malezi ndo yana determine belief system yako.Mfano mtu akizaliwa uarabuni mostly likely atakuwa muislam na mtu akizaliwa south east asia atakuwa m buddha

Kwa namna technology ilivyopanuka kwa sasa tungeweza kutengeneza mazingira yaliyowafanya apes kuwa mwanadamu katika eneo/chumba fulani tuka apply hizo gases na all conducive environment zilizopelekea mabadiliko yote ya mwanadamu then tukachunguza mabadiliko yatakayojitokeza lakini sio kwamba haijafanyika shida ni kutangaza matokeo litakaloathiri brainwashed all over the surface kwani watajua Darwinism ni Vanity and nullity hauwezi ku prove lakini wanaamini then wanapinga dini wakati wote tunaamini nguvu fulani ya tofauti sema tunatofautiana mtazamo.

Evolution sio process ya siku moja au mbili

Evolution ni process inayo span millions of years across several generations under complex environment conditions

Pia homo sapien sapiens(binadamu) na apes wa sasa tuna share a common ancestor sio kwamba sisi binadamu tuli evolve kutoka hao nyani. Ndo mana DNA ya nyani inafanana na ya kwetu kwa asilimia 98

 

[Kiranga]

Mkuu, we are all born atheists.Mtoto mchanga anazaliwa hana dini.Mazingira ya malezi ndo yana determine belief system yako.Mfano mtu akizaliwa uarabuni mostly likely atakuwa muislam na mtu akizaliwa south east asia atakuwa m buddha



Evolution sio process ya siku moja au mbili

Evolution ni process inayo span millions of years across several generations under complex environment conditions

Pia homo sapien sapiens(binadamu) na apes wa sasa tuna share a common ancestor sio kwamba sisi binadamu tuli evolve kutoka hao nyani. Ndo mana DNA ya nyani inafanana na ya kwetu kwa asilimia 98

A scholarly input with realistic roots.

 

[Kiranga]

hhhahahaha Kiranga he is somehow right kwenye hoja zake ingawaje i stand kwenye side kwamba mungu yupo and i hate kuona watu wakijaribu kuthibitisha uwepo wa mungu kwa kutumia vitabu vya dini au dini.kwa sababu mtu anaeamini dini tayari anaamini mungu so no need of justification hapo.

It is rather peculiar that, one would want to convince another of a godhead's existence by skipping the independent proof of that very godhead's existence, and going straight to using that supposed godheads texts.

If I don't accept that he exists in the first place, how would I accept the texts are authentically his?

You bring about a very important point, which I am afraid will escape the majority of our feeble minded JF members.

 

[Kiranga]

biblia haijajcontradict ila ukiisoma kama unakpmbizwa hutaielewa kamwe, hyo link uliyotoa mwandish wake namfanansha na wale wapga kelele kwenye miadhara ya dini wanachukua kifungu cha maneno bila kukielewa. Kuhusu baba yake Joseph link yako inadai biblia imejchanganya ila yeye ndo kajichanganya, ukisoma Mat 1:16 biblia imeweka wazi kabsa kama baba wa Joseph ni Yakobo ila ukisoma Luk 3:23 biblia imesema Yesu ''alidhaniwa'' kuwa ni mwana wa Joseph wa Eli. Sasa kama neno ''alidhaniwa'' mwandishi wako ameshndwa kujua linamaana gani basi haina maana kuweka link za vilaza kama hao.

Hujajibu maswali yake yote kum dismiss hivyo.

Kati yako unayechukua kifungu kimoja na ku jump to conclusion na yeye aliyekuwekea vifungu lukuki ambavyo hujavijibu, nani anachukua vifungu bila ya kuvielewa?

Kabla ya ku dismiss, maliza vifungu.

Hujamaliza vifungu ushataka ku dismiss?

 

[Mndengereko]

Kwa hiyo kahtaan , kutokana na posti yangu #212 hapo juu, hiyo Quran yako ni outdated, ilicopy na kupaste nadharia ambavyo baadae imeonekana ni ya UWONGO.

Na hata kama hiyo nadharia ingekuwa ni kweli, isingekuwa uthibitisho kuwa ni kitabu cha Mungu.
Kwani wewe hujawahi kusoma vitabu vya wanaadamu vyenye nadharia za kweli?, je tuite navyo ni vyaMungu???

tuelimishane uwepo wa mungu bila ya kuingiza dini wala vitabu vyake,ili wasioamini kwenye qur-an au uisalm wapate kuamini,kwa taarifa yako mtume muhammad(s.a.w) aliyeleta qur an ambayo ndo imeeleza hiyo dhana ya dunia kuwa duara na chanzo cha kila kitu ni maji aliuwa hajui kusoma wala kuandika alichokuwa anafanya akishushiwa aya through malaika jibril(gabriel) alimwambia swahaba(follower) wake aiandike ili maandiko yasiweze kupotea so kama alikuwa hajui kusoma wala kuandika how come aweze kujua hao maphilosopher wa zamani kwamba ndo walikuja na idea hizo?? Lets get back to the topic,

 

[Mndengereko]

Hapo sasa kahtaana nimekutoa maanani yani HUFAIII KABISA na inaonesha una Elimu ya MADRASS ambayo ni ya kushikiwa (kukariri) unaijua sana na huko kwenye Ilimu ya DINI ndiko kuna matusi na JAZBA na kuwadhrau wenzenu km baada ya KIFO mnajua kuna nini

• Kuna aya isemayo km mnataka kujua baada ya KIFO kuna nini kamuulizeni ISSA
• Kuna aya isemayo Mwanamke ana matundu 7
• Kuna aya isemayo kuna jamaa alikabwa MBAVU ndani ya PANGO (IQRA) akawa MTUME

Hivyo vyote ni Vitabu vya mapokeo Kuanzia Torati, Injili, hata Quran
ukiambiwa leo Proove kukabwa mbavu na kupewa utume kunakujaje huwezi.
Hivi Vitabu vyote unavyovisema havikudondoshwa toka juu (Dunia ni mviringo) na kuna sayari nyingi.
Nilishakujibu katika tread nyingi kuwa ni Vitabu vya Musa (Mose) na wenzake kina Mathayo aliyefia huko Ethiopia,
Kumbukumbu zake zote zipo katika mifumo ya magome au Mafunjo ya ngozi na maandishi halisi yapo katika Maktaba za Cambridge, Oxford huko UK na hata Alexandria huko Misri
Kwa hiyo sio kitu cha kila mtu kupokea habari toka kwa MUNGU,
[h=3]http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorigin.html
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
kwa hiyo jamaa yangu kwa Elimu yako ya DINI wewe kaa nayo usiwalazimishe na wengine wakufuate mkija kukuta mmefika Ukingoni mkaambiwa huku siko ila Issa atarudi na kubadili DINI ndio mtasaga meno kwani Baniani leo Ukimuuliza mungu wako ni nani nikamtajia huyo wa kwako na hakika hapatakalika
MUNGU ina tafsiri nyingi sana na kwa makabila mengi hapa Duniani
[h=1]When was the Bible written?[/h]
sasa mimi niamini vipi mtu aliyetoka pangoni akakabwa mbavu miaka 650AD wakati hadithi hizi ni za miaka 3,500 BC?
TATIZO LA AKILI ZA KUSHILIWA NDIO HAPA LILIPO

unapojaribu kutoa hoja usikashifu unajua kwa nini huyu aliyebanwa mbavu alibanwa mbavu unajua kulikuwa kuna mafunzo gani during tendo la kubanwa mbavu kabla ya kuamua kuponda kitu ni vyema ukajua knowldge behind it.

 

[middo]

Hujajibu maswali yake yote kum dismiss hivyo.

Kati yako unayechukua kifungu kimoja na ku jump to conclusion na yeye aliyekuwekea vifungu lukuki ambavyo hujavijibu, nani anachukua vifungu bila ya kuvielewa?

Kabla ya ku dismiss, maliza vifungu.

Hujamaliza vifungu ushataka ku dismiss?

kama ulivyosema ameweka vfungu lukuki nmeshndwa kuviweka vyote coz ni utumbo tu nmepick kmoja as an example ila kama unataka nkuorodheshee vfungu mbalimbali jamaa alivyokua akili ndogo, sawa naweza nkafanya hvyo!

 

[Kiranga]

unapojaribu kutoa hoja usikashifu unajua kwa nini huyu aliyebanwa mbavu alibanwa mbavu unajua kulikuwa kuna mafunzo gani during tendo la kubanwa mbavu kabla ya kuamua kuponda kitu ni vyema ukajua knowldge behind it.

Usikashifu.

Somo kubwa sana hilo.

Kwa yeyote.

Hata kwangu.

Asante mkuu.

One.

 

[Kiranga]

kama ulivyosema ameweka vfungu lukuki nmeshndwa kuviweka vyote coz ni utumbo tu nmepick kmoja as an example ila kama unataka nkuorodheshee vfungu mbalimbali jamaa alivyokua akili ndogo, sawa naweza nkafanya hvyo!

Si utumbo mpaka uthibitishe kwamba ni utumbo.

Hujathibitisha hilo.

Hata mimi naweza kusema kwamva kusema kwako kwmba "ni utumbo", ni utumbo. Lakini kudai hivyo, hakumaanishi kwamba unachosema ni utumbo.

You ned more than empty claims to make your claims stick.

Kabla ya kusema hayo madai lukuki ni utumbo, inakubidi kuthibitisha hilo. Kwa kuyajibu yote.

Ama sivyo wewe ndiye utakuwa unatapika utumbo.