If God knows the future (omniscient), can you change your destiny?

If God knows the future (omniscient), can you change your destiny?

housegirl said:
Some time back I was posting on Eiyer's thread about spirits. In the course of our arguments it was agreed that Adam was created in such a way that he needed the fruit of life to live forever. So I asked if He was created perfectly in the first place.....etc. Eiyer said i needed more knowledge and that wasnt the place for it. Maybe he could enlighten me now?? Eiyer

If you are going to apply the laws of logic here, we will have to conclude that that type of God doesnt exist.

Do the Christians here accept that the laws of logic apply to God?

I "believe" in a "relatively" higher power.

It amazes me Kiranga how you are so assertive about the inexistence of an "entity" or "force" that we as scientists just dont know of yet.

There are so many frequencies we cant see or hear. we cant even begin to percieve the 4th dimension yet. Maybe God is in the 4th dimension LOL? What assures you of your 'belief'?
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Nifafanulie .....

Kanuni za logic haziwezi ku apply kwa Mungu kiaje?
Halafu sina uhakika kama nilijibu kama ulivyosema,hebu nikumbushe

Nijuacho mimi Adma na Hawa waliumbwa wakiwa hawana kifo yaani wangeishi milele,baada ya kula tunda ndipo walipokuja kufa
Na hili Mungu aliwaambia kabisa kwa uwazi na akawapa uhuru wa kufuata alichowaambia au kutokufuata

Lakini pia aliwaambia faida za kutii maagizo yake na hasara za kutokutii maagizo yake

Sasa huo u perfect unaouzungumzia wewe sijui ni upi niliousema!
 
Eiyer said:
Hilo ni jibu la swali langu?
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Ndiyo lakini in advanced stage. Anyway najua tofauti kati ya maneno uliyosema, kubashiri ni kuotea jambo litakalotokea lakini huenda lisitokee na neno jingine ni kusema kitu na kutokea kama kilivyo, haya twende kazi, sema ulichotaka kusema.
 
Schiendler said:
Wewe umejiunga leo halafu unamjua MaxShimba and Co.!!! Duuuh

Haya bana. Lakini, hili tatizo la hawa jamaa kupenda ushoga ni sehemu ya evolution au wao walitokea kuwa mashoga tokea kuzaliwa kwao. Hakika kuna siri kubwa hapo kwa Mashoga kupendwa na non theist na non theist kuwa mashoga. Huu undugu na uhusiano wao, ulianzia lini au ndio gay evolution ?
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Kwa taarifa yako tu humu mimi si mgeni. Nipo toka enzi za Jamboforums. Nadhani huu uzi utakuwa hauna maana tena kama umeanza kuhusisha matusi na kashfa na kutoka kwenye mantiki yenyewe. Lakini kwa mtu mwerevu ataelewa nani analeta ushoga hapa.
 
JEKI said:
Ndiyo lakini in advanced stage. Anyway najua tofauti kati ya maneno uliyosema, kubashiri ni kuotea jambo litakalotokea lakini huenda lisitokee na neno jingine ni kusema kitu na kutokea kama kilivyo, haya twende kazi, sema ulichotaka kusema.
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Vizuri ......

Sasa niambie,unajua Mungu ni nani?
 
Schiendler said:
SASA NAKUJIBU MASWALI YAKO:

Yesu hakutengenezwa bali alikuwepo. Ushaidi ni huu hapa:

BC maana yake before Christ. Bingooooooooooooooooooooo, kumbe ulisha jijibu halafu unasema tena katengenezwa. BC is your answer.
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Tunatumia Gregorian calendar ndugu mali ya kanisa ulitaka nitumie term ipi uelewe au ulitaka nitumie Egyptian calendar au the accurate persian calendar? Au labda ningeandika BCE (Before Common era).

Kiukweli hujajibu chochote hata kimoja wala sijaona huo ushahidi unaousema. Kuandika BC hakujustify uwepo wa yesu. The question was so simple. Pata muda usome vitabu vingine nje ya biblia itasaidia kuamsha bongo.
 
Eiyer said:
Nifafanulie .....

Kanuni za logic haziwezi ku apply kwa Mungu kiaje?
Halafu sina uhakika kama nilijibu kama ulivyosema,hebu nikumbushe

Nijuacho mimi Adma na Hawa waliumbwa wakiwa hawana kifo yaani wangeishi milele,baada ya kula tunda ndipo walipokuja kufa
Na hili Mungu aliwaambia kabisa kwa uwazi na akawapa uhuru wa kufuata alichowaambia au kutokufuata

Lakini pia aliwaambia faida za kutii maagizo yake na hasara za kutokutii maagizo yake

Sasa huo u perfect unaouzungumzia wewe sijui ni upi niliousema!
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Mimi nimekuwa interested hapo nilipoBold maneno yako. Are you serious on this? Au kwa vile umemezeshwa tu bila kuhoji?
 
JEKI said:
Naona huna mpango wa kumaliza huu mjadala mapema, unazidi kuupanua tu.
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Kwanini?

Mimi nataka nikusaidie kupata jibu lako lakini pia nataka upate elimu nyingine ambayo huna

Kama hujui Mungu ni kitu gani ni kwanini unatilia mashaka yote yanayomhusu?
Kama hujui uwezo wa Mungu kwanini unatilia mashaka yanayomhusu kama anayaweza?

Sijui kama unaweza kuyaelewa hayo na thamani yake!
 
Eiyer said:
Nifafanulie .....

Kanuni za logic haziwezi ku apply kwa Mungu kiaje?
Halafu sina uhakika kama nilijibu kama ulivyosema,hebu nikumbushe

Nijuacho mimi Adma na Hawa waliumbwa wakiwa hawana kifo yaani wangeishi milele,baada ya kula tunda ndipo walipokuja kufa
Na hili Mungu aliwaambia kabisa kwa uwazi na akawapa uhuru wa kufuata alichowaambia au kutokufuata

Lakini pia aliwaambia faida za kutii maagizo yake na hasara za kutokutii maagizo yake

Sasa huo u perfect unaouzungumzia wewe sijui ni upi niliousema!
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dah!!! Eiyer...unaniruka hivihivi??

si Mungu alisema Mwanzo 3:22.........
na sasa asije akanyosha mkono
wake akatwaa matunda ya mti wa
uzima, akala, akaishi milele

ukaniandika paragraph kufafanua huo mstari. OK, ulisema mti huo uliwekwa ili Adam akila ule mwingine, ale huo ili aishi milele. right¿

Its still an imperfect world. In a perfect world, there is no imperfectness.

the fact that nyumbani kwetu hamna mtu mwnye malaria, dosent make it a perfect place. Malaria ipo. Hata Eden, kifo kilikuwepo toka zamani. God created death. It was a matter of time.

Ishmael kasema huko kwenye thread nyingine that God is beyond logic. i asked what he means.

I thought Logic was part of Gods attributes. so when you describe God in such a way that the laws of logic are violated, mnakuwa mnakosea kumdescribe. hence, he cannot be all knowing all loving all mighty and justful AT ONCE.
 
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housegirl said:
dah!!! Eiyer...unaniruka hivihivi??

si Mungu alisema Mwanzo 3:22.........
na sasa asije akanyosha mkono
wake akatwaa matunda ya mti wa
uzima, akala, akaishi milele

ukaniandika paragraph kufafanua huo mstari. OK, ulisema mti huo uliwekwa ili Adam akila ule mwingine, ale huo ili aishi milele. right¿
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Adam aliumbwa bila kifo ila kifo kilikuja baada ya kula mti wa katikati,rejea kauli ya Mungu alipowaambia kuwa mkila tunda la mti huo mtakufa,kama walikuwa wanakufa tangu mwanzo asingewaambia hilo

Kilichotokea ni Mungu kuweka ulinzi kwenye bustani ya eden ili Adam asijekula mti wa uzima wakaishi milele,kumbuka mti huu waliruhusiwa kula matunda yake kabla ya wao kula huo mti wa ujuzi wa mema na mabaya,aliweka ulinzi ili wasije wakala na wakaishi milele

Hiyo inamaana kuwa tunda la ujuzi wa mema na mabaya liliwasababishia kifo lakini kama wangekula tunda la uzima wangeishi milele kitu ambacho hakikuwa chema kwa Mungu

Mungu alitaka tuishi milele lakini bila kuwa na ujuzi wa mema na mabaya kwakuwa hatukustahili hilo,lakini tulipokula ndipo kifo kilipozaliwa ndani mwetu
Its still an imperfect world. In a perfect world, there is no imperfectness.

the fact that nyumbani kwetu hamna mtu mwnye malaria, dosent make it a perfect place. Malaria ipo. Hata Eden, kifo kilikuwepo toka zamani. God created death. It was a matter of time.
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How?

Ishmael kasema huko kwenye thread nyingine that God is beyond logic. i asked what he means.

I thought Logic was part of Gods attributes. so when you describe God in such a way that the laws of logic are violated, mnakuwa mnakosea kumdescribe. hence, he cannot be all knowing all loving all mighty and justful AT ONCE.
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Ishmael aliposema kuwa Mugu yuko juu ya logic hakusema kuwa Mungu ni kinyume cha logic bali Mungu ni zaidi ya logic

Logic tulionayo haiwezi na imeshindwa kuthibitisha uwepo wa Mungu kwa namna ya kushikika kama vile unavyoweza kuona kuwa 2+2=4 na unaiona nne,kama kuna logic inayoweza kufanya hivyo basi sio hii tuliyonayo ni nyingine ambayo ni kubwa kuliko hii
 
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Eiyer if God didnt create "death" how could they have died? The concept of death was always there. God could have created a world were there is no death, but he didnt. Infact, he created the universal life constant.

If God is beyong logic does it mean he violates logic? Isnt logic part of him?

it could have been plausible kama ungesema our knowledge abou God is limited but the little we know should atleast be logical....
 
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housegirl said:
Eiyer if God didnt create "death" how could they have died? The concept of death was always there. God could have created a world were there is no death, but he didnt. Infact, he created the universal life constant.

If God is beyong logic does it mean he violates logic? Isnt logic part of him?

it could have been plausible kama ungesema our knowledge abou God is limited but the little we know should atleast be logical....
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Nategemea unaisoma sana Biblia. SASA Ili kupunguza shurbah, tuletee aya ambayo inasema Mungu kaumba Kifo kwa Binadamu.

MFANO: Kama Adam and Eve wasinge kula (1) either fruit of life (2) or fruit of knowledge of good and evil. Hivi Adam angekuwa hai mpaka hii leo au angekuwa amekufa?

Jibu kwa ya please.
 
housegirl said:
Ishmael kasema huko kwenye thread nyingine that God is beyond logic. i asked what he means.

I thought Logic was part of Gods attributes. so when you describe God in such a way that the laws of logic are violated, mnakuwa mnakosea kumdescribe. hence, he cannot be all knowing all loving all mighty and justful AT ONCE.
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1. Logic is not part of God's attributes.
2. Logic came to existence for you to comprehend things. In fact, God doesn't need logic, He is above logic

Miano ya Kibilia: Isaiah 40:
25"To whom then will you liken Me That I would be his equal?" says the Holy One. 26 Lift up your eyes on high And see who has created these stars, The One who leads forth their host by number, He calls them all by name; Because of the greatness of His might and the strength of His power, Not one of them is missing.…

SWALI HILI HAPA:
Isaiah 46: 5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?


 
Eiyer said:
Kweli mkuu ...
Tena kupinga bila ushahidi ni rahisi kuliko rahisi yenyewe ilivyo .....!!
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Kupinga kwamba kitu kipo hakuhitaji ushahidi. Unaweza kupinga kwa kuomba ushahidi wa unachopinga tu.

After all, kama kitu hakipo, huwezi kuwa na ushahidi kwamba hakipo. Kwa sababu ili kuwa na ushahidi inabidi kiwepo.

Anayesema kitu kipo ndiye anayepaswa kutoa ushahidi, si anayehoji kama kipo.

Sasa wewe unaweza kunipa ushahidi kwamba mungu yupo? Ushahidi ambao utaweza kuthibitisha kwamba mungu yupo na hauwezi kuwepo kama mungu hayupo?

Naomba ushahidi huo kama unaweza kuuleta hapa.
 
housegirl said:
Eiyer if God didnt create "death" how could they have died? The concept of death was always there. God could have created a world were there is no death, but he didnt. Infact, he created the universal life constant.

If God is beyong logic does it mean he violates logic? Isnt logic part of him?

it could have been plausible kama ungesema our knowledge abou God is limited but the little we know should atleast be logical....
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I have asked this question numerous times here. No sensible answer.

Why did an all loving, all knowing god create the ability for evil to flourish in a universe he created?

If god is all loving and all capable, why allow evil?

If god allowed evil, while this very god could have disallowed evil very easily from the get go, is this god all that loving?

This god cannot be all loving, all capable and allowing stoppable evil simultaneously.
 
Eiyer said:
Ishmael aliposema kuwa Mugu yuko juu ya logic hakusema kuwa Mungu ni kinyume cha logic bali Mungu ni zaidi ya logic

Logic tulionayo haiwezi na imeshindwa kuthibitisha uwepo wa Mungu kwa namna ya kushikika kama vile unavyoweza kuona kuwa 2+2=4 na unaiona nne,kama kuna logic inayoweza kufanya hivyo basi sio hii tuliyonayo ni nyingine ambayo ni kubwa kuliko hii
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Safi sana Mkuu.

Nategemea umeeleweka hapo. Naona kuna Mmasai kaingia disco hapo juu.
 
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