If God knows the future (omniscient), can you change your destiny?

[Eiyer]

Wapi nimeandika sitaki kujua?

I told you, you just cannot wrap your head around what I write here, and therein lies the first problem.

Taratibu tu tutamuona nani hapa ni ignorant .....

Hii hapa chini ni kauli yako wewe mwenyewe

Kujua ni nyumba ya ujinga.

1;Kama unataka kujua hii ina maana kuwa unataka kuwa mjinga
2;Kama hutaki kujua swali langu hapo juu itakuwa bado unahitajika ulijibu

Baada ya hili utaniambia ni nani mwenye uzuzu linapokuja suala la kuelewa!

 

[Eiyer]

Wanazuoni:

Kuna sababu kuu ambayo ilimfanya Mwenyezi Mungu kusema kuwa, "Mpumbavuh" kasema kuwa hakuna Mungu moyoni mwake (Ushaidi upo ndani ya Zaburi ya Daudi). Sasa basi leo tujiratibu na maneno haya mawili: Tofauti baina ya Mpumbavuh na Mjinga.

Wanazuoni, elewa kuwa kusoma kwingi sio kuufuta ujinga kama wanavyo dai wapinga Mungu, bali ni kuupunguza ujinga ulio kuwa aufahamu. Wanadunia wote wana ujinga wa jambo moja au kadhaa, haijalishi elimu yako ni ya wapi au imani yako ni ipi. Wapenzi wa dini kuwa na ujinga wa jambo si kosa, hata Profesa wa Fizikia wa Marekani anaweza asijue namna ya kupika Ugali lakini Binti wa kutoka Kijiji cha Nangurukuru anaweza kuwa hodari wa jambo hilo kumshinda Profesa. Hilo si kosa wala dhanbi.

Lakini "mpumbavuh" upumbavuh ni ile hali ya binadamu kufanya jambo isivyotakiwa huku akiwa na uelewa na au ufahamu wa namna ya kufanya inavyotakiwa na au huna ueleo kuwa ufahamu wako si ukweli/kweli, na kung’ang’ania kuwa unacho elewa ndio sahihi, kisa, eti, mimi nimefuta ujinga zaidi ya yule mpenzi wa dini. Huo ndio upumbavuh wa Non Theists. Kila mmoja wetu ana ujinga wake. Kuwa na ujinga wa jambo fulani ni kutoelewa jambo hilo. Ni nani anayeelewa kila jambo hapa duniani zaidi ya Yesu Kristo? Lakini Non-theists wao wanafikiri kuwa wanaelewa kila kitu huku wakifahamu kuwa wao bado hawana majibu ya kivipi jiwe litengeneze “maisha” au life.

Allahamdullilah, wanadunia tumejaliwa akili ili tuweze kufikiri na kuongeza ufahamu kwa kukubali kujifunza. Inakuwaje basi mwanadamu anapoacha kufikiri na kudai kuwa eti Fulani hayupo au hajawai kuwepo kwasababu sijawai kumuona?

Mwenyezi Mungu Subhanahu wa Taala anasema kuwa, Mpumbavuh kasema moyoni mwake kuwa Mungu hayupo. Hili ni jambo lakujiuliza, kwanini Mungu awaite wale Wapumbavuh.

Hivi mkuu hayo maneno hapo kwenye bold yana maana gani?

 

[Demarco]

Kwa sababu hakuna kujua hata kwamba hakuna kujua.



Hakuna utafiti usio na challenge question/ premise. My challenge to you is that premise. Mungu hayupo, kama yupo thibitisha.

Hujaweza mpaka sasa kuthibitisha.



The convergence from ignorance is worthwhile even as perfect knowledge may remain illusive due to the fact that the mere act of seeking perfect knowledge interferes with the perfect state of that knowledge.

I doubt you can wrap your head around that.



Wrap your head around the above first and then maybe you could aspire to dream to think of shining the boots of those who understand me.

Wewe thibitisha Mungu hayupo...otherwise yupo.

Sio kila usichokiona hakipo

 

[Kiranga]

Taratibu tu tutamuona nani hapa ni ignorant .....

Hii hapa chini ni kauli yako wewe mwenyewe

1;Kama unataka kujua hii ina maana kuwa unataka kuwa mjinga
2;Kama hutaki kujua swali langu hapo juu itakuwa bado unahitajika ulijibu

Baada ya hili utaniambia ni nani mwenye uzuzu linapokuja suala la kuelewa!

Unafahamu maana ya "kujua ni nyumba ya ujinga"?

Umesha consider kwamba naweza kuwa nataka kujua ila siwezi kujua, kwa sababu kujua ni the Sel;assian illusion, to be pursued, but never attained?

Kitu gani unachojua wewe?

 

[Eiyer]

Wewe thibitisha Mungu hayupo...otherwise yupo.

Sio kila usichokiona hakipo

Huyo jamaa anashangaza sana

Hivi kweli utasemaje kitu hakipo bila ushahidi?
Kama anajua kabisa hawezi kuleta ushahidi wa kisichokuwepo asingesema alichosema

Lakini kama kweli una uhakika hakipo utapotezaje muda hapa?
Ni sawa na uende airport kusubiria meli wakati unajua kabisa hilo haliwezekani kisa tu kuna mtu alikuambia kuwa meli inaweza kutia nanga airport

Ajabu sana hii .....

Kama una uhakika meli haiwezi kutia nanga airport huwezi kupoteza muda wako kwenda kuisubiri huko

Kama una uhakika Mungu hayupo huwezi kupoteza muda wako hapa,utakuwa huna tofauti na yule ambae anakwenda airport kuisubiri meli!

 

[Kiranga]

Wewe thibitisha Mungu hayupo...otherwise yupo.

Sio kila usichokiona hakipo

Kama mungu hayupo, hawezi kuthibitishika kwamba hayupo.

Kwa sababu visivyopo havithibitishiki kwamba havipo.

Kwa sababu havipo ili kuthibitishika.

Ni kweli, sio kila nisichokiona hakipo.

Lakini pia sio kila nisichokiona kipo.

Sioni pembetatu duara katika Euclidean geometry. Hilo halimaanishi kwamba kuna pembetatu duara katika Euclidean geometry, just because siioni.

Ili kunishawishi kwamba pembetatu duara ipo, itabidi unionyeshe uthibitisho kwamba pembetatu duara ipo.

Ili kunishawishi kwamba mungu yupo, itabidi unionyeshe uthibitisho kwamba mungu yupo.

Asije kuwa ni wazo tu, kitu cha kufikirika kama "pembetatu duara" lakini kiuhalisi hayupo.

Unawezaje kuthibitisha kwamba huyu mungu asiyeonekana unayesema yupo yupo kweli na si dhana tu ya kufikirika kama "pembetatu duara" ?

 

[housegirl]

Safi sana Mkuu.

Nategemea umeeleweka hapo. Naona kuna Mmasai kaingia disco hapo juu.

hapana. hakueleweka. and i did have the Isaya scripture in mind.

my question is, since God is beyond logic, dos it mean he violates logic?

fundisho lako ulilolitoa hapo juu kuhusu logic, litabaki kuwa fundisho LAKO tu.

you do realise that if God does not follow logic then the whole idea of God is useless? That and we as humans will not be able to know anything about his existence and nature?

 

[Eiyer]

Unafahamu maana ya "kujua ni nyumba ya ujinga"?

Umesha consider kwamba naweza kuwa nataka kujua ila siwezi kujua, kwa sababu kujua ni the Sel;assian illusion, to be pursued, but never attained?

Kitu gani unachojua wewe?

1;sina haja ya kukujibu ulichoniuliza kwakuwa kama nimekosea sema hapa kwa uwazi na uweke wewe mwenyewe maana ya "kujua ni nyumba ya ujinga"

2;Acha kutumia assumption kuwa "nimekonsida kuwa huwezi kujua" kwakuwa sentensi zangu ziko wazi kabisa kueleweka kirahisi sana,nilisema haya yafuatayo
A;Kama unataka kujua hiyo inamaana kuwa unataka kuwa mjinga
B;Kama hutaki kujua swali langu hapo juu bado unatakiwa kujibu

Wapi nimesema kuwa unataka kujua na lakini huwezi?
Mbona hizo ni sentensi rahisi sana kueleweka?

3;Suala la mimi kujua au kutokujua chochote sio ishu hapa bali nijibu nilichokuulia kutokana na maelezo yako

Taratibu tutakwenda kujua tu ni nani haelewi hapa .........!!

 

[Kiranga]

Huyo jamaa anashangaza sana

Hivi kweli utasemaje kitu hakipo bila ushahidi?
Kama anajua kabisa hawezi kuleta ushahidi wa kisichokuwepo asingesema alichosema

Lakini kama kweli una uhakika hakipo utapotezaje muda hapa?
Ni sawa na uende airport kusubiria meli wakati unajua kabisa hilo haliwezekani kisa tu kuna mtu alikuambia kuwa meli inaweza kutia nanga airport

Ajabu sana hii .....

Kama una uhakika meli haiwezi kutia nanga airport huwezi kupoteza muda wako kwenda kuisubiri huko

Kama una uhakika Mungu hayupo huwezi kupoteza muda wako hapa,utakuwa huna tofauti na yule ambae anakwenda airport kuisubiri meli!

Habari ya kuwapo kwa mungu wakati hayupo inaweza kuwa sumu hatari kama habari ya kuwapo kwa dawa ya kutibu UKIMWI wakati dawa haipo.

Kuna wengine watakubali kwamba dawa ipo na kuingia mkenge.

Ni wajibu wa wanaoona habari ina mushkeli kuihoji.

Ukweli kwamba dawa ya kutibu UKIMWI haipo na inasemwa kwamba ipo haupunguzi haja ya kuhoji habari hii ya dawa ya UKIMWI kuwapo.

Ukweli huu unaongeza haja ya kuhoji.

Kama kweli mungu hayupo, kunakuwa na haja zaidi, si pungufu, ya kuhoji habari zinazosema kwamba mungu yupo.

Watu wanaishi maisha yao yote wakifikiri mungu yupo, kama hayupo it will prove to be such a waste.

Ni hatari kama mtu anayefanya ngono zembe huku akitumaini kwamba dawa ya UKIMWI ipo.

Ni hatari kwa sababu watu watategemea mungu afanye yale ambayo wanatakiwa kufanya, kwa kuomba mungu, mungu ambaye hayupo.

Halafu masikini wakibakia masikini kwa sababu wamekalia kuomba mungu badala ya kufanya kazi, kwa sababu hii habari ya kuwapo kwa mungu haiulizwi ipasavyo, wengine ambao tumeona tofauti hatutaki akili zetu zitusute kwamba tuliona mushkeli ndani ya hii habari nzima ya mungu lakini hatukuuliza maswali ya muhimu kwa jamii.

The god idea can only prevail in a culture that does not embrace critical thinking and inquiry.

 

[Kiranga]

hapana. hakueleweka. and i did have the Isaya scripture in mind.

my question is, since God is beyond logic, dos it mean he violates logic?

fundisho lako ulilolitoa hapo juu kuhusu logic, litabaki kuwa fundisho LAKO tu.

you do realise that if God does not follow logic then the whole idea of God is useless? That and we as humans will not be able to know anything about his existence and nature?

How does a human being know that god is beyond logic? And that this is not a fabricated "deus ex machina" to avoid answering legitimate logic based questions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina

 

[Ishmael]

Ishmael Do you accept reasoning or do you frown upon reasoning?

Mimi nilibahatika kufanya Hisabati ya juu, wakati ule tulikuwa wachache sana tulio fanya Applied and Pure Mathematics, sasa nafikri unaelewa kuwa hata Hisabati kaanzisha Mungu. Kwenye Hisabati kuna reasoning kubwa sana, lakini bado hiyo reasoning inafuata na kuheshimu mipaka yote aliyo weka Mungu.

Lakini, je, utawezaje kureason kuhusu Mungu asiye na Mwanzo? Wapi utaanzia kumfikiria? Because our God is timeless and eternity, jambo ambalo kwenye Hisabati tunasema ni infinity, sasa logic itaanza kukuuliza, kivipi Yesu Mungu asiwe na mwanzo lakini awe ni Mwanzo. Sasa nitafikaje kwenye infinity? Is infinity there au ni assumptions tu za kusolve Hisabati? Au ndio zile Hisabati za integral ambazo ukisha pata jibu lazima uweke plus Constant, ingawa kwenye derivation ya hilo jibu unafumbia macho hiyo constant.

Ndio maana kila kitu kinabidi kuheshimu Mungu aliye anzisha na zivunja laws of Physics
1. Yesu katembea kwenye maji bila ya msaada wa machine au chombo. Hiyo ni kinyume na sheria za kifizikia. Mtu fulani anawez asema labda ni kwasabau ya viscosity, lakini, kwanini awe ni Yesu tu/pekee?
2. Yesu ka paa bila machine au chombo. Hapo kavunja sheria ya gravitation.
3. Yesu kageuza maji kuwa wine. Hapo unafahamu kuwa Chemical formula ya Maji sio ya Wine.
4. Yesu anazidisha Mikate na Samaki na kulisha watu zaidi ya Elfu tano. Hapo ndipo utalewa kuwa sheria ni kwa ajili yenu na sio Mtunga Sheria.
5. Achilia mbali kufufua watu kwa kusema Lazaro come OUT...

Ndio maana anaye pinga Yesu kuwa sio Mungu na anaye sema kuwa hakuna Mungu, WOTE WANAITWA WAPUMBAVUH.

Yesu ndie aliye wapa hizo logic, laws of physics, na blah blah zote, NA YESU HUYO HUYO anazivunja pale alipo taka, tena akiwa hapa duniani.

Now, sasa niambie, kwa kutumia reasoning, Kivipi Five loaves of Bread and Two fish, vilishe watu elfu tano?

 

[Eiyer]

Kama mungu hayupo, hawezi kuthibitishika kwamba hayupo.

Kwako wewe yupo au hayupo?

Kwa sababu visivyopo havithibitishiki kwamba havipo.

Naomba ushahidi wa hili tafadhali
Au uniambie tu kuwa hapa unaamini havithibitishiki

Kwa sababu havipo ili kuthibitishika.

Umetumia assumption kuwa havipo halafu unahitimisha kwa kutumia assumption

Kwanza thibitisha kuwa havipo halafu ndipo hiyo kauli yako iwe na mashiko

Ni kweli, sio kila nisichokiona hakipo.

Sawa ....

Lakini pia sio kila nisichokiona kipo.

Sawa na hayo yote yanahitaji ushaidi

Unapokana uwepo wa kimoja unatakiwa utoe ushahidi

Sioni pembetatu duara katika Euclidean geometry. Hilo halimaanishi kwamba kuna pembetatu duara katika Euclidean geometry, just because siioni.

Lakini kusema haipo ni kujiwekea kitanzi kwakuwa utahitajika utoe ushahidi
Ni bora useme tu siioni tunaweza tukakuelewa kuwa una matatizo ya macho

Ili kunishawishi kwamba pembetatu duara ipo, itabidi unionyeshe uthibitisho kwamba pembetatu duara ipo.

Hili linaweza kuwa sawa,lakini hapa anaetaa kumshawishi mwingine ni nani?

Ili kunishawishi kwamba mungu yupo, itabidi unionyeshe uthibitisho kwamba mungu yupo.

Hakuna anaetaka kukushawishi hapa,wewe ndie unataka utushawishi kuwa hayupo bila kutupa ushahidi

Asije kuwa ni wazo tu, kitu cha kufikirika kama "pembetatu duara" lakini kiuhalisi hayupo.

Naomba ushahidi wa pembe tatu duara kuwa haipo
Kama huna ni kwanini unasema ni kitu cha kufikirika?

Unawezaje kuthibitisha kwamba huyu mungu asiyeonekana unayesema yupo yupo kweli na si dhana tu ya kufikirika kama "pembetatu duara" ?

Unawezaje kututhibitishia hayupo?

 

[housegirl]

Nategemea unaisoma sana Biblia. SASA Ili kupunguza shurbah, tuletee aya ambayo inasema Mungu kaumba Kifo kwa Binadamu.

MFANO: Kama Adam and Eve wasinge kula (1) either fruit of life (2) or fruit of knowledge of good and evil. Hivi Adam angekuwa hai mpaka hii leo au angekuwa amekufa?

Jibu kwa ya please.

this is the problem. we just never seem to grasp things the same way.

I dont understand what you people dont get.

Do you guys understand the concept of "a world where death is impossible" and "a world where its possible"?

the fact that Mungu aliwaambia that mkila mtakufa meant that the concept of death was already created!

before God created anything there was nothing. at that time, the concept of death was inexistent. God had the idea of death.

he could have created a world without the possibility for death, angeenda kuwaambia kina Adam that they would die wakila tunda, but they wouldnt b'se he didnt create that phenomenon!!!!

believe me, I dont think we are on the same page here.

 

[Ishmael]

hapana. hakueleweka. and i did have the Isaya scripture in mind.

my question is, since God is beyond logic, dos it mean he violates logic?

fundisho lako ulilolitoa hapo juu kuhusu logic, litabaki kuwa fundisho LAKO tu.

you do realise that if God does not follow logic then the whole idea of God is useless? That and we as humans will not be able to know anything about his existence and nature?

God can do whatever He wants. Kwani logic si inamipaka yake.

Angalia violation of logic here: Yesu analisha watu elfu tano kwa kutumia Mikate 5 na samaki 2. Lakini mabaki ni vikapi 12. Sasa hapo logic yako inaweza kufua dafu?

1. Kivipi Mikate Mitano na Samaki wawili walishe watu Elfu tano?
2. Kivipi Mabaki ya Mikate 5 na Samaki 2, vijaze VIKAPU 12?

NDIO MAANA NILISEMA MAPEMA SANA KUWA, GOD IS ABOVE LOGIC.

 

[Eiyer]

Habari ya kuwapo kwa mungu wakati hayupo inaweza kuwa sumu hatari kama habari ya kuwapo kwa dawa ya kutibu UKIMWI wakati dawa haipo.

Kuna wengine watakubali kwamba dawa ipo na kuingia mkenge.

Ni wajibu wa wanaoona habari ina mushkeli kuihoji.

Ukweli kwamba dawa ya kutibu UKIMWI haipo na inasemwa kwamba ipo haupunguzi haja ya kuhoji habari hii ya dawa ya UKIMWI kuwapo.

Ukweli huu unaongeza haja ya kuhoji.

Kama kweli mungu hayupo, kunakuwa na haja zaidi, si pungufu, ya kuhoji habari zinazosema kwamba mungu yupo.

Watu wanaishi maisha yao yote wakifikiri mungu yupo, kama hayupo it will prove to be such a waste.

Ni hatari kama mtu anayefanya ngono zembe huku akitumaini kwamba dawa ya UKIMWI ipo.

Ni hatari kwa sababu watu watategemea mungu afanye yale ambayo wanatakiwa kufanya, kwa kuomba mungu, mungu ambaye hayupo.

Halafu masikini wakibakia masikini kwa sababu wamekalia kuomba mungu badala ya kufanya kazi, kwa sababu hii habari ya kuwapo kwa mungu haiulizwi ipasavyo, wengine ambao tumeona tofauti hatutaki akili zetu zitusute kwamba tuliona mushkeli ndani ya hii habari nzima ya mungu lakini hatukuuliza maswali ya muhimu kwa jamii.

The god idea can only prevail in a culture that does not embrace critical thinking and inquiry.

Kabla hata sijasoma hizo ndoto zako zingine nataka uniambie hapo nilipo bold kama una hakika napo au nawe umeanza kuingia kwenye kuamini a.k.a assumption!

 

[Kiranga]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan.


Claiming an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omni benevolent being exists, is not only contradictory in a very human way for a godhead supposedly so great, but also needs to be backed up with the requisite evidence.

 

[Kiranga]

Kabla hata sijasoma hizo ndoto zako zingine nataka uniambie hapo nilipo bold kama una hakika napo au nawe umeanza kuingia kwenye kuamini a.k.a assumption!

Uhakika wa nini? Kwamba kudanganya watu kuna dawa ya UKIMWI wakati hakuna ni kitu kibaya?

 

[Eiyer]

this is the problem. we just never seem to grasp things the same way.

I dont understand what you people dont get.

Do you guys understand the concept of "a world where death is impossible" and "a world where its possible"?

the fact that Mungu aliwaambia that mkila mtakufa meant that the concept of death was already created!

before God created anything there was nothing. at that time, the concept of death was inexistent. God had the idea of death.

he could have created a world without the possibility for death, angeenda kuwaambia kina Adam that they would die wakila tunda, but they wouldnt b'se he didnt create that phenomenon!!!!

believe me, I dont think we are on the same page here.

Kwanini unataka Mungu aumbe ulimwengu ambao kifo hakikuwezekana?

 

[Ishmael]

this is the problem. we just never seem to grasp things the same way.

I dont understand what you people dont get.

Do you guys understand the concept of "a world where death is impossible" and "a world where its possible"?

the fact that Mungu aliwaambia that mkila mtakufa meant that the concept of death was already created!

before God created anything there was nothing. at that time, the concept of death was inexistent. God had the idea of death.

he could have created a world without the possibility for death, angeenda kuwaambia kina Adam that they would die wakila tunda, but they wouldnt b'se he didnt create that phenomenon!!!!

believe me, I dont think we are on the same page here.

Unapo tumia neno concept teyari umesha mfananisha Mungu na sie viumbe. There is no concept in God. Zaidi ya hapo, Mungu hakuumba kifo kwa Adam wala Eve. Ndio maana niliomba aya, ingawa nafahamu kuwa hakuna aya yenye kusaidia madai yako.

Adam was not created so that he can one day die, just like Lucifer was not created so that one day he can be Satan. Do you see the logic here.

 

[Eiyer]

Uhakika wa nini? Kwamba kudanganya watu kuna dawa ya UKIMWI wakati hakuna ni kitu kibaya?

Unajua kabisa ulichoandika,acha kujidai huelewi ninachokuuliza

Tazama hapa chini ulichoandika;

Habari ya kuwapo kwa mungu wakati hayupo inaweza kuwa sumu hatari kama habari ya kuwapo kwa dawa ya kutibu UKIMWI wakati dawa haipo.

Mbona umekwenda kwenye Ukimwi na umeacha eneo lingine la maelezo yako?

Ngoja nifafanue maana unaonekana una tatizo la kuelewa maandiko yako mwenyewe

Ni kwamba nataka ushahidi madai yako kuwa "Habari ya kuwapo kwa mungu wakati hayupo",yaani nataka uniambi hicho kilichokufanya useme hayupo,hapa nataka ushahidi tu

Halafu nataka unithibitishie haya madai yako kuwa "inaweza kuwa sumu hatari kama habari ya kuwapo kwa dawa ya kutibu UKIMWI wakati dawa haipo",yaani uniambie inawezaje kuwa sumu kwa style hiyo kwa ushahidi!