JamiiForums Exclusive: Kiranga and Fellow members English Debate

[Buyaka]

Huyo anaakisi idadi kubwa ya Watanzania.

Mimi kuna mtu aliwahi kuniambia kuwa eti ukienda kwenye usaili wa kazi Tanzania, kama usaili unafanyika kwa Kiingereza na ikitokea wewe msailiwa unalonga vizuri hiyo lugha basi kuna uwezekano mkubwa wa kupata kazi.

Ndio malimbukeni wenyewe hao. Eti Kiranga genius kwa sababu anaongea lugha nne. Assume Kiranga babaake Mdigo, mamaake Muha, lugha zao kazi master, kakulia Uswahilini Buguruni Kwa Mnyamanii, kasoma soma Kiingereza cha walimu wa Olympio primary kina Salma Kikwete mpaka kaki master, lugha nne hizo tayari. Hiyo inamfanya mtu kuwa genius? Duuu....

 

[sijui nini]

Hii thread si ilipaswa iwe ni english tupu? Watanzania kwa kuchakachua bwana...lol!

 

[Donnie Charlie]

Hii thread si ilipaswa iwe ni english tupu? Watanzania kwa kuchakachua bwana...lol!

'kweli we mubaya, vile unakatazaga watu wasipite njia ambayo we napitaga.'

 

[Tresor Mandala]

Hii thread si ilipaswa iwe ni english tupu? Watanzania kwa kuchakachua bwana...lol!

Unadhani Idadi ya wachangiaji ingeongezeka au kupungua?

 

[klorokwini]

Mbona na nyie mkienda kwa eliza wa tegeta mnaongea kiinglishi kama cha kiranga?

Adrenalin inakuwa juu na wanasayansi wanasema adrenalin ikikuwa juu unafanya mambo yasiowezekana kabisa.

 

[jmushi1]

Kwa hiyo akizungumza lugha nne ni genius lakini sio Kidigo, Kidengeleko, Kiswahili na Kiingereza. Wewe ni limbukeni, zungukuku, kabwela mwenye mtindio.... Eti mtu akizunguma lugha nne genius.

Unawashwa masaburini wewe?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Unawashwa masaburini wewe?

Mangi bana...hivi kwa nini uko mshari hivyo?

 

[jmushi1]

Mangi bana...hivi kwa nini uko mshari hivyo?

Nyani, i am simple and clear, we hujaona huo msusuru wa mitusi yake?

Sasa ulitaka nifanyeje?

As if kuna pahala nimesema kuzungumza kidengereko, kiswahili sijui na kitu gani ndo u genius, bangi mbichi noumer sometimes..

 

[Buyaka]

Unawashwa masaburini wewe?

...hujaona huo msusuru wa mitusi yake? ...Sasa ulitaka nifanyeje?

Unalia eeh? Si ulianza matusi mwenyewe.

Posti yangu ya kwanza kuchangia nimekwambia kistaarabu kabisa kwamba una assume mambo mengi mno, nikaonyesha ni kivipi mtu yeyote anaweza kuongea lugha nne kirahisi, si lazima genius. Ukaja na mitusi na mikejeli.

Nasema kama Kiranga babaake Mdengereko, mamaake Mchagga, na kakulia Dar, na kaenda shule (sekondari ni English medium education kwa mfumo wetu Tanzania) anaweza kuongea lugha nne. Sasa kujua kidingereko na kichaga na kiswahili na English ya kufundishwa na kina mwalimu Rahma Kikwete na kusoma kamusi inakufanya uwe genius?

As if kuna pahala nimesema kuzungumza kidengereko, kiswahili sijui na kitu gani ndo u genius, bangi mbichi noumer sometimes.

Oh yeah? Hujasema hivyo?

.....Kiranga is a genius kama ni kweli anazungumza lugha takriban nne(stand to be corrected by him/her)

Sasa hapa anae "washwa masaburini" ni nani kama si wewe unaemfagilia mtu kwa u genius wa kuongea kidengeleko na kiingereza? Unataka kujitegesha au? Toka lini kuongea lugha kukawa u genius? Mbona wewe unaongea kiswahili na labda kichaga na bado ni mchemfu kwa kwenda mbele? Limbukeni mkubwa wewe, jifunze kujibu kistaarabu na kurekebisha ambapo hukueleza vizuri unachotaka kukisema.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Sasa hapa anae "washwa masaburini" ni nani kama si wewe unaemfagilia mtu kwa u genius wa kuongea kidengeleko na kiingereza? Unataka kujitegesha au? Toka lini kuongea lugha kukawa u genius? Mbona wewe unaongea kiswahili na labda kichaga na bado ni mchemfu kwa kwenda mbele? Limbukeni mkubwa wewe, jifunze kujibu kistaarabu na kurekebisha ambapo hukueleza vizuri unachotaka kukisema.

Right on! Right on!

Watanzania tunazuzuka sana na lugha hasa ya Kiingereza. Na ndiyo maana Nyerere na Mkapa wanaonekana kama vile ni majiniasi.

Na hapa ni hivyo hivyo. Ukitaka umwagiwe visifa vya uongo na kweli basi andika Kiingereza kutumia maneno ambayo hayatumiki katika maongezi au maandishi ya kawaida na baadhi watakuona wewe ni jiniasi.

Sasa kama jamaa ni jiniasi sijui Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, au Stephen Hawking ni kina nani....lol.

But what do I know...?

 

[Kongosho]

Usiwasahau Isack Newton na Miss Green

Eti mtu kasoma shule ya kata naye anapimwa ujiniazi kwa kiingereza?

Right on! Right on!

Watanzania tunazuzuka sana na lugha hasa ya Kiingereza. Na ndiyo maana Nyerere na Mkapa wanaonekana kama vile ni majiniasi.

Na hapa ni hivyo hivyo. Ukitaka umwagiwe visifa vya uongo na kweli basi andika Kiingereza kutumia maneno ambayo hayatumiki katika maongezi au maandishi ya kawaida na baadhi watakuona wewe ni jiniasi.

Sasa kama jamaa ni jiniasi sijui Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, au Stephen Hawking ni kina nani....lol.

But what do I know...?

 

[Buyaka]

...Na ndiyo maana Nyerere na Mkapa wanaonekana kama vile ni majiniasi.

Kaka, umewahi kumsikia huyo Nyerere akizungumza Kiingereza? Na yeye anachapia kama kawa, anasita kutafuta neno kama non-native English speaker wengi tulivyo. Tena kwa bahati niliyopata ya kuishi ng'ambo sana, naweza kusema Nyerere na Mkapa Kiingereza chao ni kibovu kuliko cha kwangu mara kumi, lakini hawa watu siwezi kufunga kamba za viatu vyao kwa upeo wa uelewa, busara, usomi n.k. Sasa tukianza kusema Kiranga ni genius kwa sababu anaongea lugha nne, babaake Msandawe, mamaake Mpogolo, kakulia Magomeni Kwa Bi Nyau, kasoma mpaka chuo kikuu, na anapenda penda lugha, of course atakuwa anajua lugha nne! Unajua?

Na hapa ni hivyo hivyo. Ukitaka umwagiwe visifa vya uongo na kweli basi andika Kiingereza kutumia maneno ambayo hayatumiki katika maongezi au maandishi ya kawaida na baadhi watakuona wewe ni jiniasi.

Sio tu hayatumiki katika lugha ya kawaida, bora ingekuwa hayatumiki katika lugha ya kawaida. Kiingereza cha Kiranga mara nyingi kinavunja misingi ya sarufi, ni broken!

Kwa mfano:

Kiranga: The sheer parochial absurdity of this stale regiment of a thinly disguised chicanery exposes a poor attempt -if not grave wanton for respect of individuals- at humorous serendipitous eccentricities of Piddletrenthide proportions.

Neno "wanton" mara nyingi ni adjective, lazima lifatiwe na noun, hicho kinachosifiwa. Huwezi kusema, kwa mfano, the guy is wanton! Wanton what? Au, ukitaka kulitumia kama noun, lazima liwe lina discribe mtu, sasa hapa kinachosemwa ni wanton ukirudi nyuma unakuta ni neno attempt. Kusema "attemp wanton" ni broken English!

Halafu kingine, kwenye kiingereza kilichoandikwa vizuri huwezi kukuta sentensi ina of, of, of zaidi ya mbili. Cheki alivyosema: of this stale regiment ... of a thinly disguised ....of Piddletrenthide proportions. Unaona kuna ka tatizo hapo? Sijui unanielewa?

Halafu anapenda kujirudia rudia bila sababu: Kiranga: and evade eerie effable ephemeral enchantments with enviable equanimity while embarking from this putrid pungent pugilists pantomime, to a somber soliloquy of solitary sanity..... hapa keshasema ana evade hizi enchantments with enviable equanimity, yani kwa aina fulani ya ukimya, utulivu, halafu mwisho wa sentensi anarudia tena kusema anakwenda kwenye utulivu fulani, upweke wake...somber soliloquy of solitary... kasahau alipoanzia, anaanza kujirudia. Pia neno neno putrid na pungent hapa yana maana ile ile tu.

Kwa hiyo kwa sababu ya haya mapungufu ya kisarufi, kimantiki, kukosa viima na viarifu kwenye sentensi zake, Kiingereza hiki sikioni kama kina umakini sana. Sasa ukiandika hivyo halafu ukawa unasomwa na kina J Mushi, you know, mchaga wa milimani Machame huko sijui wa wapi huyu, of course atamuita genius! Sijui unanielewa? Wewe Nyani huwa nakuona unaandika andika viingereza viingereza hapa, lazima una vi idea idea na ninachokisema, nadhani unanielewa....

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Kwa hiyo kwa sababu ya haya mapungufu ya kisarufi, kimantiki, kukosa viima na viarifu kwenye sentensi zake, Kiingereza hiki sikioni kama kina umakini sana. Sasa ukiandika hivyo halafu ukawa unasomwa na kina J Mushi, you know, mchaga wa milimani Machame huko sijui wa wapi huyu, of course atamuita genius! Sijui unanielewa? Wewe Nyani huwa nakuona unaandika andika viingereza viingereza hapa, lazima una vi idea idea na ninachokisema, nadhani unanielewa....

Hahahaaaa hayo yote katika uchanganuzi wako mimi nilishayaona siku nyingi sana na nilishawahi kuyasema huko siku za nyuma. Kwa hiyo nakuelewa kabisa.

Halafu, nadhani pia unajua kuwa kuzungumza kuna tofauti kubwa sana na kuandika. Hasa kuzungumza papo kwa hapo. Nadhani umenipata.

 

[Kiranga]

Hahahaaaa hayo yote katika uchanganuzi wako mimi nilishayaona siku nyingi sana na nilishawahi kuyasema huko siku za nyuma. Kwa hiyo nakuelewa kabisa.

Halafu, nadhani pia unajua kuwa kuzungumza kuna tofauti kubwa sana na kuandika. Hasa kuzungumza papo kwa hapo. Nadhani umenipata.

Above all, mie mwenyewe nilishalisema hili hata kabla.

Kuna kipindi threads zingine zinakwenda kwenye kufuahisha baraza na kuwapa watu wanachotaka, mtu yeyote anayefikiri naweza kuandika vituko hivi katika mawasiliano serious anahitaji kuwa examined.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Above all, mie mwenyewe nilishalisema hili hata kabla.

Kuna kipindi threads zingine zinakwenda kwenye kufuahisha baraza na kuwapa watu wanachotaka, mtu yeyote anayefikiri naweza kuandika vituko hivi atika mawasiliano serious anahitaji kuwa examined.

Kudos my dude. Hata mimi nilikuwa ninafikiria hivyo hivyo. Nani in real life huwa anaandika au kuongea hivyo, iwe kazini au hata katika mawasiliano ya kawaida tu?

Ila ujue una ki cult of admirers! Lol.

 

[Kiranga]

Kaka, umewahi kumsikia huyo Nyerere akizungumza Kiingereza? Na yeye anachapia kama kawa, anasita kutafuta neno kama non-native English speaker wengi tulivyo. Tena kwa bahati niliyopata ya kuishi ng'ambo sana, naweza kusema Nyerere na Mkapa Kiingereza chao ni kibovu kuliko cha kwangu mara kumi, lakini hawa watu siwezi kufunga kamba za viatu vyao kwa upeo wa uelewa, busara, usomi n.k. Sasa tukianza kusema Kiranga ni genius kwa sababu anaongea lugha nne, babaake Msandawe, mamaake Mpogolo, kakulia Magomeni Kwa Bi Nyau, kasoma mpaka chuo kikuu, na anapenda penda lugha, of course atakuwa anajua lugha nne! Unajua?

Sio tu hayatumiki katika lugha ya kawaida, bora ingekuwa hayatumiki katika lugha ya kawaida. Kiingereza cha Kiranga mara nyingi kinavunja misingi ya sarufi, ni broken!

Kwa mfano:

Kiranga: The sheer parochial absurdity of this stale regiment of a thinly disguised chicanery exposes a poor attempt -if not grave wanton for respect of individuals- at humorous serendipitous eccentricities of Piddletrenthide proportions.

Neno "wanton" mara nyingi ni adjective, lazima lifatiwe na noun, hicho kinachosifiwa. Huwezi kusema, kwa mfano, the guy is wanton! Wanton what? Au, ukitaka kulitumia kama noun, lazima liwe lina discribe mtu, sasa hapa kinachosemwa ni wanton ukirudi nyuma unakuta ni neno attempt. Kusema "attemp wanton" ni broken English!

Halafu kingine, kwenye kiingereza kilichoandikwa vizuri huwezi kukuta sentensi ina of, of, of zaidi ya mbili. Cheki alivyosema: of this stale regiment ... of a thinly disguised ....of Piddletrenthide proportions. Unaona kuna ka tatizo hapo? Sijui unanielewa?

Halafu anapenda kujirudia rudia bila sababu: Kiranga: and evade eerie effable ephemeral enchantments with enviable equanimity while embarking from this putrid pungent pugilists pantomime, to a somber soliloquy of solitary sanity..... hapa keshasema ana evade hizi enchantments with enviable equanimity, yani kwa aina fulani ya ukimya, utulivu, halafu mwisho wa sentensi anarudia tena kusema anakwenda kwenye utulivu fulani, upweke wake...somber soliloquy of solitary... kasahau alipoanzia, anaanza kujirudia. Pia neno neno putrid na pungent hapa yana maana ile ile tu.

Kwa hiyo kwa sababu ya haya mapungufu ya kisarufi, kimantiki, kukosa viima na viarifu kwenye sentensi zake, Kiingereza hiki sikioni kama kina umakini sana. Sasa ukiandika hivyo halafu ukawa unasomwa na kina J Mushi, you know, mchaga wa milimani Machame huko sijui wa wapi huyu, of course atamuita genius! Sijui unanielewa? Wewe Nyani huwa nakuona unaandika andika viingereza viingereza hapa, lazima una vi idea idea na ninachokisema, nadhani unanielewa....

Neno wanton mara nyingi ni adjective au mara zote? Naweza kusema "A wanton for discovery" au siwezi? Unajua maana zote za neno wanton au unakwenda na tafsiri ya kwanz tu?

Hilo la of..of...of ni largely a style issue, kama nilivyosema hapo juu, this was a banter plagued with poetic licens, ndiyo maana hata umeona hiyo poetic language amaye wewe usiyeelewa art umeona repetition.

Sijaona critque bado, jipange tena.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Neno wanton ni adjective lakini linaweza kuwa noun au adverb kutegemea na unavyolitumia na ulivyoliunda. Mfano wantonly na wantonness.

Ila tukubali tu kuwa Kiingereza ni lugha ngumu. Hata wenye lugha wenyewe huwa wanachapia sana tu.

 

[AshaDii]

Nyani you are effed up in the head dawg... lolest, them dry punches are sanity wickedness!!! am in stitches 😀

Dii am hoping hii ni opening line ya debate you are about to indulge....lol... Nipe a go ahead nikuletee wa ku debate nae.

 

[Kiranga]

Kudos my dude. Hata mimi nilikuwa ninafikiria hivyo hivyo. Nani in real life huwa anaandika au kuongea hivyo, iwe kazini au hata katika mawasiliano ya kawaida tu?

Ila ujue una ki cult of admirers! Lol.

If I seem too high, it is because our Plimsoll line is askew, our compass misaligned, our litmus test is tainted, our common denominator too low, our average mediocre.

It's a good thing that neither a cult of admirers nor a mass of scornful critics will sway my sense of equanimity and understanding of my true abilities / limitations. Silewi sifa wala siogopi kashfa.

Such that a pretty much below average lad like myself, when expousing what he commonly sees as below average material for anybody who has devoured the classics and gone through the requisite homework, perused the journals fleetingly and listened to the news passingly, appears to be some Tanzanian reincernation of Gauss crossed with Mozart sprinkled with Spinoza with an Einstenian touch slanted by some Popper's interpretations of Hegelian dialectics applications to the M-Theory subset of String Theory in a revolving wormhole tunneling to the eleventh spatial dimension of next brane.

It could have been laughable if it wasn't serious.

But then again, what do you expect from an educational system that produces a PhD like Hon. Kigwangwalla (MP) ?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Dii am hoping hii ni opening line ya debate you are about to indulge....lol... Nipe a go ahead nikuletee wa ku debate nae.

What's up with these Dii diis?