Je! Mungu ni yule yule?

Je! Mungu ni yule yule?

Kiranga said:
Hakuna kujadiliana bila kuulizana maswali.

Na ukikataa kujibu maswali, umekataa kujadiliana.

Wengine mijadala yetu inaenda kwa Socratic method.

Unaijua Socratic method?
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Socratic debate tiririka mzee
 
sayeir said:
Socratic debate tiririka mzee
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Socratic method inahusisha majadiliano kwa maswali, mpaka maswali yanapoonesha contradiction inayo expose mapungufu katika hoja, halafu watu wanaona mapungufu ya hoja yako wapi na hoja isiyo na mapungufu ipo wapi.

Sasa mtu unamuuliza maswali ili mchambue hoja kwa Socratic method, anakataa kujibu maswali.

Mapungufu ya hoja tutayajua vipi kama mtu hataki kujibu maswali?

Nakupeleka kwenye tovuti ya Chuo Kikuu cha Chicago uone walivyoandika.

The Socratic Method | University of Chicago Law School


The Socratic Method
Socrates (470-399 BC) was a Greek philosopher who, despite being considered one of the greatest and most important philosophers who ever lived, left no writings at all. Most of what we know about his life and work comes from the writings of his disciples, Xenophon and Plato. He lived during a period of transition in the Greek empire, and after the Peloponnesian War, he was tried, convicted, and executed for corrupting the young.

Socrates engaged in questioning of his students in an unending search for truth. He sought to get to the foundations of his students' and colleagues' views by asking continual questions until a contradiction was exposed, thus proving the fallacy of the initial assumption. This became known as the Socratic Method, and may be Socrates' most enduring contribution to philosophy.
 
We hatari mkuu watakubali tu we usichoke kuwafundisha kuwa mungu hayupo watakuelewa tu
 
Kiranga said:
Hakuna kujadiliana bila kuulizana maswali.

Na ukikataa kujibu maswali, umekataa kujadiliana.

Wengine mijadala yetu inaenda kwa Socratic method.

Unaijua Socratic method?
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Una ng'ang'ana hapo labda pengine hauwezi kuendelea na huu mjadala sababu utalazimika kueleza nilipokosea na sidhani kama kuna hiyo sehemu.
 
Kiranga said:
Socratic method inahusisha majadiliano kwa maswali, mpaka maswali yanapoonesha contradiction inayo expose mapungufu katika hoja, halafu watu wanaona mapungufu ya hoja yako wapi na hoja isiyo na mapungufu ipo wapi.

Sasa mtu unamuuliza maswali ili mchambue hoja kwa Socratic method, anakataa kujibu maswali.

Mapungufu ya hoja tutayajua vipi kama mtu hataki kujibu maswali?

Nakupeleka kwenye tovuti ya Chuo Kikuu cha Chicago uone walivyoandika.

The Socratic Method | University of Chicago Law School


The Socratic Method
Socrates (470-399 BC) was a Greek philosopher who, despite being considered one of the greatest and most important philosophers who ever lived, left no writings at all. Most of what we know about his life and work comes from the writings of his disciples, Xenophon and Plato. He lived during a period of transition in the Greek empire, and after the Peloponnesian War, he was tried, convicted, and executed for corrupting the young.

Socrates engaged in questioning of his students in an unending search for truth. He sought to get to the foundations of his students' and colleagues' views by asking continual questions until a contradiction was exposed, thus proving the fallacy of the initial assumption. This became known as the Socratic Method, and may be Socrates' most enduring contribution to philosophy.
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Umepewa nafasi ya kuonesha hayo mapungufu ila hadi sasa haujaonesha hayo mapungufu,ajabu umeng'ang'ana ujibiwe maswali ili uone upungufu.
 
UHURU JR said:
Una ng'ang'ana hapo labda pengine hauwezi kuendelea na huu mjadala sababu utalazimika kueleza nilipokosea na sidhani kama kuna hiyo sehemu.
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Tatizo unadhani sana, nikikuuliza ili tuondoke kwenye kudhani, tufanye uhakiki, hutaki kujibu maswali.

Kama kuna anayekimbia kwa kutoweza kuendelea, ni anayekimbia maswali.

Si anayeuliza maswali.
 
UHURU JR said:
Umepewa nafasi ya kuonesha hayo mapungufu ila hadi sasa haujaonesha hayo mapungufu,ajabu umeng'ang'ana ujibiwe maswali ili uone upungufu.
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Pungufu la kwanzahutaki kujibu maswali.

Mtu mwenye hoja kamilifu haogopi maswali.

Anayeogopa maswali, anatupa sababu ya kufikiri hoja yake ina mapungufu.
 
Kiranga said:
Tatizo unadhani sana, nikikuuliza ili tuondoke kwenye kudhani, tufanye uhakiki, hutaki kujibu maswali.

Kama kuna anayekimbia kwa kutoweza kuendelea, ni anayekimbia maswali.

Si anayeuliza maswali.
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Utasemaje nakimbia maswali wakati ndiyo nayetaka twende moja kwa moja kwenye lengo la kuuliza hayo maswali ila wewe ndiye hautaki. Wewe umeona mahali nilipokosea na ndiyo chanzo cha kuuliza hayo maswali na mie kutambua hilo nikakupa nafasi ya kuonesha hapo nilipokosea ila ajabu hautaki kufanya na kufanya kukwamisha mjadala.

Ni sawa na mtu mwenye haja na kutaka kujisaidia ila analazimisha kwenda uwani kwamba ndio kuna choo wakati ndani pia kuna choo na hakina tatizo.
 
Japokuwa naendelea kujifunza ila hadi sasa naamini kuna nguvu inayoofanya kazi ndani na nje yangu (Mungu) ila nakataa katakata kuwa biblia, au vitabu vya kidini vingine vinatoa uhalisia wa nguvu hiyo (Mungu). Akili yangu inanituma kuwa Mungu yupo tofauti kabisa na jinsi watu au vitabu vya kidini vya dunia vinavyomueleza.
Period.
 
UHURU JR said:
Utasemaje nakimbia maswali wakati ndiyo nayetaka twende moja kwa moja kwenye lengo la kuuliza hayo maswali ila wewe ndiye hautaki. Wewe umeona mahali nilipokosea na ndiyo chanzo cha kuuliza hayo maswali na mie kutambua hilo nikakupa nafasi ya kuonesha hapo nilipokosea ila ajabu hautaki kufanya na kufanya kukwamisha mjadala.

Ni sawa na mtu mwenye haja na kutaka kujisaidia ila analazimisha kwenda uwani kwamba ndio kuna choo wakati ndani pia kuna choo na hakina tatizo.
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Nimekwambia lengo la maswali ni kufanya majadiliano kwa "Socratoc Method".

Hujajibu maswali bado.

Kwa nini huyo mtu anayetaka kujisaidia na kutaka kwenda uani asiwe wewe?

Wewe unataka majadiliano (unataka kujisaidia), lakini unachagua namna unayoitaka wewe tu na usiyoitaka unaikataa (hutaki kujibu maswali, hutaki choo cha ndani, unataka choo cha uani tu).

Unajisema mwenyewe.

Hujajibu maswali.
 
Stephen Chelu said:
Japokuwa naendelea kujifunza ila hadi sasa naamini kuna nguvu inayoofanya kazi ndani na nje yangu (Mungu) ila nakataa katakata kuwa biblia, au vitabu vya kidini vingine vinatoa uhalisia wa nguvu hiyo (Mungu). Akili yangu inanituma kuwa Mungu yupo tofauti kabisa na jinsi watu au vitabu vya kidini vya dunia vinavyomueleza.
Period.
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Unajuaje kwamba hiyo nguvu ni Mungu na si kitu kingine chochote?
 
Kiranga said:
Unajuaje kwamba hiyo nguvu ni Mungu na si kitu kingine chochote?
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Mu ngu siyo kitu au kiumbe kinachosimama chenyewe. (Kama tunavyoweza kusema huu ni mti kila MTU anaauona kuwa ni mti) Mungu ni neno linaloeleza nguvu inayoendesha maisha katika ulimwengu moja kwa moja au kupitia kanuni zilizowekwa nayo tangu na tangu.

Hiyo ni kwa mujibu wa uelewa wangu na naamini hivyo.
 
Stephen Chelu said:
Mu ngu siyo kitu au kiumbe kinachosimama chenyewe. (Kama tunavyoweza kusema huu ni mti kila MTU anaauona kuwa ni mti) Mungu ni neno linaloeleza nguvu inayoendesha maisha katika ulimwengu moja kwa moja au kupitia kanuni zilizowekwa nayo tangu na tangu.

Hiyo ni kwa mujibu wa uelewa wangu na naamini hivyo.
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Kwa hiyo kama nguvu inayoendesha maisha katika ulimwengu ni The Second Law of Thermodynamics, Mungu ni The Second Law of Thermodynamics?
 
Stephen Chelu said:
The Second Law of Thermodynamics ina gorvern hekima, upendo, furaha ya ainabinadamu?
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Kwanza unafahamu The Second Law of Thermodynamics, inasemaje na ni nini?

Umeandika "Mu ngu siyo kitu au kiumbe kinachosimama chenyewe. (Kama tunavyoweza kusema huu ni mti kila MTU anaauona kuwa ni mti) Mungu ni neno linaloeleza nguvu inayoendesha maisha katika ulimwengu moja kwa moja au kupitia kanuni zilizowekwa nayo tangu na tangu.

Hiyo ni kwa mujibu wa uelewa wangu na naamini hivyo."

Nikakuambia, "Kwa hiyo kama nguvu inayoendesha maisha katika ulimwengu ni The Second Law of Thermodynamics, Mungu ni The Second Law of Thermodynamics?"

Umekubali kwamba nguvu inayoendesha maisha katika ulimwengu ni Mungu, kabla hata hujaichunguza na kuijua hiyo nguvu.

Nakuuliza, ukiambiwa kwamba uchunguzi wote umeonesha kwamba nguvu hiyo ni The Second Law of Thermodynamics, utakubali The Second Law of Thermodynamics ni Mungu?

Umekipa jina la Mungu kitu usichokijua, ninakuuliza, ukiambiwa kitu hicho ulichokubali kukiita Mungu ni kitu A utakubali?

Umefanya makosa kuanza kukubali kwamba kinachoongoza maisha ni Mungu bila hata kujua kinachoongoza maisha ni nini.
 
Kiranga said:
Kwanza unafahamu The Second Law of Thermodynamics, inasemaje na ni nini?

Umeandika "Mu ngu siyo kitu au kiumbe kinachosimama chenyewe. (Kama tunavyoweza kusema huu ni mti kila MTU anaauona kuwa ni mti) Mungu ni neno linaloeleza nguvu inayoendesha maisha katika ulimwengu moja kwa moja au kupitia kanuni zilizowekwa nayo tangu na tangu.

Hiyo ni kwa mujibu wa uelewa wangu na naamini hivyo."

Nikakuambia, "Kwa hiyo kama nguvu inayoendesha maisha katika ulimwengu ni The Second Law of Thermodynamics, Mungu ni The Second Law of Thermodynamics?"

Umekubali kwamba nguvu inayoendesha maisha katika ulimwengu ni Mungu, kabla hata hujaichunguza na kuijua hiyo nguvu.

Nakuuliza, ukiambiwa kwamba uchunguzi wote umeonesha kwamba nguvu hiyo ni The Second Law of Thermodynamics, utakubali The Second Law of Thermodynamics ni Mungu?

Umekipa jina la Mungu kitu usichokijua, ninakuuliza, ukiambiwa kitu hicho ulichokubali kukiita Mungu ni kitu A utakubali?

Umefanya makosa kuanza kukubali kwamba kinachoongoza maisha ni Mungu bila hata kujua kinachoongoza maisha ni nini.
Click to expand...
Nimekuuliza kuwa The Second Law of Thermodynamics inaongoza furaha, hekima na mambo mengine kwa binadamu kwa sababu nguvu hiyo ninayoiamini Mimi (Mungu) ina uwezo wa kufanya hayo. Kwa hiyo nilitarajia jibu la ndiyo au hapana. Kama The Second Law of Thermodynamics inaweza kufanya hayo niliyoyataja hapo juu basi The Second Law of Thermodynamics ndiyo Mungu lakini kama hapana basi katika akili yako ujue kuna nguvu kubwa zaidi ya hako ka Second Law of Thermodynamics. Kwa hiyo jibu swali, The Second Law of Thermodynamics inaweza kufanya mtu akawa na amani ya moyo kama akiihitaji kutoka kwayo, The Second Law of Thermodynamics inaweza kumpa mtu tumaini akiwa wakati mgumu? Nadhani ukijibu hili swali hakutakuwa na majadiliano tena.
 
Stephen Chelu said:
Nimekuuliza kuwa The Second Law of Thermodynamics inaongoza furaha, hekima na mambo mengine kwa binadamu kwa sababu nguvu hiyo ninayoiamini Mimi (Mungu) ina uwezo wa kufanya hayo. Kwa hiyo nilitarajia jibu la ndiyo au hapana. Kama The Second Law of Thermodynamics inaweza kufanya hayo niliyoyataja hapo juu basi The Second Law of Thermodynamics ndiyo Mungu lakini kama hapana basi katika akili yako ujue kuna nguvu kubwa zaidi ya hako ka Second Law of Thermodynamics. Kwa hiyo jibu swali, The Second Law of Thermodynamics inaweza kufanya mtu akawa na amani ya moyo kama akiihitaji kutoka kwayo, The Second Law of Thermodynamics inaweza kumpa mtu tumaini akiwa wakati mgumu? Nadhani ukijibu hili swali hakutakuwa na majadiliano tena.
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Umetoa jibu kabla ya kuelewa unachojibu ni nini.

Nikikwambia habari nzima ya "kuongoza furaha, hekima na mambo mengine ya kibinadamu" inatokana na umasikini wa mawazo yetu tu, na kwamba at the quantum level, hata muda (time) haupo, utanielewa?

Na hapo ndipo umuhimu wa kujua The Second Law of Thermodynamics ni nini.

Muda haupo, kwa hiyo hakuna habari ya kimoja kuongoza kingine. Hii ni habari unayoiona wewe kwa sababu ya level yako ya mwili na akili katika ulimwengu.

Lakini ukienda katika level ya subatomic particles, kitu kama photon, traveling at the speed of light, kwa photon hiyo hakuna muda. Hakuna past, hakuna present, hakuna future.

Sasa kabla hujaelewa kwamba muda haupo, unatokana na position yetu tu katika ulimwengu (Einstein's Relativity) na habari za kimoja kusababisha kingine zinaendana na muda, kitu ambacho ukiuchunguza ulimwengu ndani kabisa, hakipo, utasemaje kwamba kinachoongoza maisha ni Mungu, wakati habari nzima ya "kuongoza" ni njozi iliyogubikwa upofu wa macho yetu ya kibinadamu na katika quantum level, hakuna muda wa kufanya kimoja kiongoze na kingine kiongozwe?
 
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