Je, Taoism ni uchawi? Je, unaweza kutumia Taoism kutabiri mambo ya mbeleni? Nitajaribu kukuelewesha

[Kiranga]

Umeona sasa, nimekwambia huwezi kwenda kinyume na nature, wewe unakomalia Taoism. Shida yako ni kwamba unaongelea kitu usichokijua, wala husomi nn nmeandika.

Taoism inakuelekeza flow ya Nature, na inakuelekeza namna ya kuifuata. Na inakwambia usipingane na nature. Wote wanao-violate sheria za nature madhara yake yanawafika na tunaona mifano halisi kibao.

Rudia kusoma makala yangu kabla hujaniquote tena otherwise tunapotezeana muda tu hapa.

Mkuu,

Unasema hawezi kwenda kinyume na nature.

Nature ni nini kwanza?

 

[The dumb Professor]

Oya wadau niliyo yackia ni kweli au uzushi? Nasikia tayri huko

Yeah,kishanuka. Nuclear imeshaachiwa

 

[The dumb Professor]

Mkuu,

Unasema hawezi kwenda kinyume na nature.

Nature ni nini kwanza?

Nature is everything that is.

 

[kali linux]

Mkuu,

Unasema hawezi kwenda kinyume na nature.

Nature ni nini kwanza?

Labda niweke lugha sawa.

Kwenda kinyume na nature inawezekana kwa baadhi ya mambo lkn kwenye taoism ni kitu kinachokatazwa kwa sababu madhara yake.

Na madhara ya kwenda na nature ni mengi na yapo wazi.

Na ndo maana tunatumia msemo "aligning yourself with nature" sababu utajiepusha na matatizo mengi endapo utaenenda vile nature inavyotaka.

Na kuhusu swali lako 'Nature ni nn", nature ni kitu kisichoweza kuelezeka ila kinajielezea chenyewe.

 

[kali linux]

Oya wadau niliyo yackia ni kweli au uzushi? Nasikia tayri huko

Tayari nini?

 

[Kiranga]

Nature is everything that is.

Sasa kama nature is everything that is, mtu ataendaje kinyume na nature wakati yeye mwenyewe ni hiyo nature pia, kwa sababu na yeye ni part ya "everything that is" ?

Don't you see a tautology there?

 

[Kiranga]

Labda niweke lugha sawa.

Kwenda kinyume na nature inawezekana kwa baadhi ya mambo lkn kwenye taoism ni kitu kinachokatazwa kwa sababu madhara yake.

Na madhara ya kwenda na nature ni mengi na yapo wazi.

Na ndo maana tunatumia msemo "aligning yourself with nature" sababu utajiepusha na matatizo mengi endapo utaenenda vile nature inavyotaka.

Na kuhusu swali lako 'Nature ni nn", nature ni kitu kisichoweza kuelezeka ila kinajielezea chenyewe.

Hutakiwi kuongelea nature kabla ya kui define.

Kwa sababu unaweza kuwa na maana moja ya nature, ukataja "nature" kwa kumaanisha hiyo maana, na mimi nikawa na maana tofauti, halafu tusielewane.

Ndiyo maana nikaanza kwa kutaka kujua, unapotaja "nature" una maana gani?

 

[Scars]

Okay.. vizuri. Lakini ngoja nikueleweshe.

Kwanza mfano wa Draft ni irrelevant hapa coz ina finite moves, lkn universe haina finite moves. Labda ungesema chess au go, na zote zisingelezea ninachomaanisha

Tai Chi inaunganisha Biomechanics, breathing, human physiology, etc... kujua mtu akijikunja vp basi ana uwezekano wa kufanya nn.

Sasa Taoism imekusanya kila kitu kwenye huu ulimwengu na kukupa Guiding principles, kumbuka Tai Chi ni part tu ya Taoism.

Ninachoona wewe umefocus zaidi na mifano niliotoa badala ya elimu ninayotoa. Focus kwenye elimu ninayotoa.

Kwa hiyo hoja imekuwa ni "finite moves" sio tena kubashiri kitachojiri kupitia next move ya vitu?

Tai Chi ni mchezo wa kimahesabu kama ilivyo draft, kuna mikao (position) ambayo mpinzani akikaa unajua ni moves gani atazotumia ku attack

Kumbuka kwenye Tai Chi kuna somo la kumsoma mpinzani

Ambapo kupitia body movements na mikao ya mabega pamoja na hips ndio zinazotoa determination ya next moves

Kuna mkao akikaa unajua kabisa mpinzani anataka kushambulia zaidi kupitia miguu na kuna mikao akikaa unajua anataka kushambulia kupitia mikono.

Na hiyo sio kwenye Tai Chi tu hata kwenye Wing Chun

Kwenye Wing Chun kuna aina ya mapigano ambayo inafundishwa kupigana ukiwa blindfold yani kuwa trained kupambana na adui bila kuona.

Na still mtu anaweza kukwepa ngumi sasa sijui nayo hii utaiweka kwenye kundi la hilo jina lako la Taoisim wakati ni jambo la kimahesabu tu na ukiweza kufuata utaratibu wake unaweza pia ukafanya.

 

[kali linux]

Hutakiwi kuongelea nature kabla ya kui define.

Kwa sababu unaweza kuwa na maana moja ya nature, ukataja "nature" kwa kumaanisha hiyo maana, na mimi nikawa na maana tofauti, halafu tusielewane.

Ndiyo maana nikaanza kwa kutaka kujua, unapotaja "nature" una maana gani?

Okay. Nitakujibu kwa context ya Taoism, sababu kila mtu anaweza kuja na context yake then tukatengeneze debate ndeeeefu isio na ulazima.

"
In Taoism, nature is viewed as an integral part of the Tao, which is the fundamental force that flows through all things. Taoists emphasize harmony with nature, embracing the natural way of things without trying to control or dominate. Nature is seen as a source of wisdom, and observing its patterns and cycles can guide individuals in living a balanced and fulfilling life according to the principles of the Tao.
"

Nadhan nimekujibu.

 

[kali linux]

Kwa hiyo hoja imekuwa ni "finite moves" sio tena kubashiri kitachojiri kupitia next move ya vitu?

Tai Chi ni mchezo wa kimahesabu kama ilivyo draft, kuna mikao (position) ambayo mpinzani akikaa unajua ni moves gani atazotumia ku attack

Kumbuka kwenye Tai Chi kuna somo la kumsoma mpinzani

Ambapo kupitia body movements na mikao ya mabega pamoja na hips ndio zinazotoa determination ya next moves

Kuna mkao akikaa unajua kabisa mpinzani anataka kushambulia zaidi kupitia miguu na kuna mikao akikaa unajua anataka kushambulia kupitia mikono.

Na hiyo sio kwenye Tai Chi tu hata kwenye Wing Chun

Kwenye Wing Chun kuna aina ya mapigano ambayo inafundishwa kupigana ukiwa blindfold yani kuwa trained kupambana na adui bila kuona.

Na still mtu anaweza kukwepa ngumi sasa sijui nayo hii utaiweka kwenye kundi la hilo jina lako la Taoisim wakati ni jambo la kimahesabu tu na ukiweza kufuata utaratibu wake unaweza pia ukafanya.

Mkuu, tatizo unatoka nje ya mada na unachanganya mambo.

Taoism imekuwepo na ndio ikaja kutumiwa kutengeneza mambo kama Tai Chi Chuan ambayo wanafupisha na kuita Tai Chi. Na mwanzo Tai Chi ilikua ni kama form ya meditation inayohusisha movement. Ikawa upgraded kuwa defense skill

Sasa Tai Chi hio hio ikaendelea kuwa modified na ikazaa aina tatu ambazo ni Yang, Wu na Chen. Na form ya Yang ndio inayoendelezwa sana na imetapakaa sehemu nyingi hapa duniani.

Tusipayuke maneno bila kuwa na knowledge. Kasome kitabu kinaitwa "The TAO OF TAI CHI CHUAN, THE WAY TO REJUVENATION" Kisha urudi hapa tuongee vizuri sababu humo ndani ndipo utapata chimbuko la Tai Chi na utaona uhusiano wa tai chi na taoism.

 

[Mwamuzi wa Tanzania]

Kambi

 

[Kiranga]

Okay. Nitakujibu kwa context ya Taoism, sababu kila mtu anaweza kuja na context yake then tukatengeneze debate ndeeeefu isio na ulazima.

"
In Taoism, nature is viewed as an integral part of the Tao, which is the fundamental force that flows through all things. Taoists emphasize harmony with nature, embracing the natural way of things without trying to control or dominate. Nature is seen as a source of wisdom, and observing its patterns and cycles can guide individuals in living a balanced and fulfilling life according to the principles of the Tao.
"

Nadhan nimekujibu.

Umeelezea habari kuhusu nature na jinsi Taoism inavyotuhimiza kuishi kirafiki na nature, tusipingane nayo.

Lakini, hujajibu swali. Hujaelezea nature yenyewe ni nini.

Ni kama vile unaelezea mtu anavyotakiwa kuishi na nature, kwa mtu ambaye tayari anaelewa nature ni nini.

Mimi nimekuuliza, nature ni nini?

Wewe unanijibu "ishi vizuri na nature, usipingane nayo".

Sawa, nataka kuishi vizuri na nature, lakini, nature ni nini?

Unaniambia mengi kuhusu kisu, kishike kwenye mpini, usikishike kwenye makali, kitumie kukatia nyama, usikitumie kuumiza mtu.

Sawa. Lakini unaongea yote hayo kama najua kisu ni nini. Kama tumekubaliana kisu ni nini.

Tuanze mwanzo kwanza. Kisu ni nini? Nikikiona nitakijuaje hiki kisu na huu uma?

 

[kali linux]

Umeelwzea habari kuhusu nature na jinsi Taoism inavyotuhimiza kuishi kirafiki na nature, tusipingane nayo.

Lakini, hujajibu swali. Hujaelezea nature yenyewe ni nini.

Ni kama vile unaelezea mtu anavyotakiwa kuishi na nature, kwa mtu ambaye tayari anaelewa nature ni nini.

Mimi nimekuuliza, nature ni nini?

Wewe unanijibu "ishi vizuri na nature, usipingane nayo".

Sawa, nataka kuishi vizuri na nature, lakini, nature ni nini?

Rudia tena kusoma comment yangu.

For the record nitaquote part yake hapa chini

In Taoism, nature is viewed as an integral part of the Tao, which is the fundamental force that flows through all things

Niambie nn huelewi hapo kuhusu swali lako "What is nature"

 

[Kiranga]

Rudia tena kusoma comment yangu.

For the record nitaquote part yake hapa chini


Niambie nn huelewi hapo kuhusu swali lako "What is nature"

"In Taoism, nature is viewed as an integral part of the Tao, which is the fundamental force that flows through all things"

Hii sehemu yenyewe tu imekaa ambiguous.

Kwanza, inaanza kwa kutoeleza nature ni nini, inaanza kwa kueleza how nature is viewed in Taoism.

Hatuambiwi the essence of nature, tunaambiwa a Taoist interpretation of nature.

Halafu, tunaambiwa nature ni an integral part of the Tao. Which still does not tell us anything about the essence of nature. We are merely told of nature as a characteristic of the Tao.

Yani ni kama uambiwe kuwa "the atom is an integral part of matter". Hatujui characteristic za atom, hatujaambiwa ina spin, angular momentum, subatomic particles, how does it get to be an atom and not a molecule, tunajua characteristic za matter, you are telling us more about matter than the atom. Na hatujui kuwa kuna ma element na ma molecule nayo ni ma integral parts of matter.

You are telling us more about the Tao than about nature.

Halafu tunapata confusion zaidi tunapoambiwa "which is the fundamental force that flows through all things".

Which which is which?

Is the Tao the fundamental force that flows through all things? Or was this fundamental force which flows though all things part referring to nature?

 

[Scars]

Mkuu, tatizo unatoka nje ya mada na unachanganya mambo.

Taoism imekuwepo na ndio ikaja kutumiwa kutengeneza mambo kama Tai Chi Chuan ambayo wanafupisha na kuita Tai Chi. Na mwanzo Tai Chi ilikua ni kama form ya meditation inayohusisha movement. Ikawa upgraded kuwa defense skill

Sasa Tai Chi hio hio ikaendelea kuwa modified na ikazaa aina tatu ambazo ni Yang, Wu na Chen. Na form ya Yang ndio inayoendelezwa sana na imetapakaa sehemu nyingi hapa duniani.

Tusipayuke maneno bila kuwa na knowledge. Kasome kitabu kinaitwa "The TAO OF TAI CHI CHUAN, THE WAY TO REJUVENATION" Kisha urudi hapa tuongee vizuri sababu humo ndani ndipo utapata chimbuko la Tai Chi na utaona uhusiano wa tai chi na taoism.

View attachment 2887689

Huko kote sio shida

Shida na mahala ambapo utata upo ni kwenye hayo maelezo yako yanayozungumzia mechanism inayotumika kujua next move ya mpinzani kwenye Tai Chi.

Ni kitu ambacho umekiwasilisha kwa kuonesha kuwa it's not about practice bali kuna kitu beyond nyuma yake (nguvu kuu) ambayo inafanya hilo liwezekane.

Kwa maelezo yako ni kwamba hiyo mechanism ya kumfanya mtu ajue next moves za mpinzani, imekuwa facilitated na nguvu fulani.

Hiyo nguvu umei refer kwa namna nyingi na katika moja ya mifano ambayo imenipa sababu ya kujibu ni pale ulipoifananisha na maswala ya kimungu.

Kwamba hiyo bond iliyopo katikati ya kujua moves za mpinzani na swala la kujua nini mpinzani atachofanya baadaye, kitu hicho kipo influenced na "nguvu kuu" ambayo katika mifano yako umetaja Mungu.

Na ndio maana nikaja na mfano wa draft kuonesha uwezekano wa kujua moves za mpinzani wako ili tuone namna gani dhana ya "nguvu kuu" isivyokuwa na ulazima katika ku influence kwenye ubashiri wa vitu vijavyo.

Je ni sahihi na mchezo wa draft nao tuuite Taoism kwasababu tumeweza kujua next moves za mpinzani?

Hiyo ndio ilikuwa hoja yangu Mkuu

 

[kali linux]

Huko kote sio shida

Shida na mahala ambapo utata upo ni kwenye hayo maelezo yako yanayozungumzia mechanism inayotumika kujua next move ya mpinzani kwenye Tai Chi.

Ni kitu ambacho umekiwasilisha kwa kuonesha kuwa it's not about practice bali kuna kitu beyond nyuma yake (nguvu kuu) ambayo inafanya hilo liwezekane.

Kwa maelezo yako ni kwamba hiyo mechanism ya kumfanya mtu ajue next moves za mpinzani, imekuwa facilitated na nguvu fulani.

Hiyo nguvu umei refer kwa namna nyingi na katika moja ya mifano ambayo imenipa sababu ya kujibu ni pale ulipoifananisha na maswala ya kimungu.

Kwamba hiyo bond iliyopo katikati ya kujua moves za mpinzani na swala la kujua nini mpinzani atachofanya baadaye, kitu hicho kipo influenced na "nguvu kuu" ambayo katika mifano yako umetaja Mungu.

Na ndio maana nikaja na mfano wa draft kuonesha uwezekano wa kujua moves za mpinzani wako ili tuone namna gani dhana ya "nguvu kuu" isivyokuwa na ulazima katika ku influence kwenye ubashiri wa vitu vijavyo.

Je ni sahihi na mchezo wa draft nao tuuite Taoism kwasababu tumeweza kujua next moves za mpinzani?

Hiyo ndio ilikuwa hoja yangu Mkuu

Basi hukunielewa toka mwanzo.

Niliposemea Nguvu kuu pia nimesemea mafundisho (rejea uzi wangu) na kupitia hayo mafundisho ndipo mtu ana-master yanayofundishwa kupitia practice. Same as meditation, practice practice...

Ukisoma bandiko langu kwa utulivu toka mwanzo utaelewa.

 

[kali linux]

"In Taoism, nature is viewed as an integral part of the Tao, which is the fundamental force that flows through all things"

Hii sehemu yenyewe tu imekaa ambiguous.

Kwanza, inaanza kwa kutoeleza nature ni nini, inaanza kwa kueleza how nature is viewed in Taoism.

Hatuambiwi the essence of nature, tunaambiwa a Taoist interpretation of nature.

Halafu, tunaambiwa nature ni an integral part of the Tao. Which still does not tell us anything about the essence of nature. We are merely told of nature as a characteristic of the Tao.

Yani ni kama uambiwe kuwa "the atom is an integral part of matter". Hatujui characteristic za atom, hatujaambiwa ina spin, angular momentum, subatomic particles, how does it get to be an atom and not a molecule, tunajua characteristic za matter, you are telling us more about matter than the atom. Na hatujui kuwa kuna ma element na ma molecule nayo ni ma integral parts of matter.

You are telling us more about the Tao than about nature.

Halafu tunapata confusion zaidi tunapoambiwa "which is the fundamental force that flows through all things".

Which which is which?

Is the Tao the fundamental force that flows through all things? Or was this fundamental force which flows though all things part referring to nature?

Do not try to prolong this discussion and deviate from the main topic.

Nimedefine Nature from a taoist perspective sababu ndio context iliopo mezani. Wewe ukiidefine kwa context nyingine hatutofikia suluhisho kamwe. Sababu mti ninaouona mimi kama mbao kwa kuwa mm ni selemala, wewe utauona kama kuni kwa kuwa wewe ni mpishi.

Kama uko tyr kuelewa tafsiri yangu ya Nature, leta hoja yako nitakujibu. Lakini kama unalazimisha kuleta maana tofauti ya Nature (from another perspective), sitoweza kukujibu sababu ni nje ya ninachotaka kuongelea hapa.

 

[fyddell]

Unaweza kunitumia icho kitabu mkuu

The Tao Te Ching - Apps on Google Play

Live a more fulfilling life

play.google.com

 

[Kiranga]

Do not try to prolong this discussion and deviate from the main topic.

Nimedefine Nature from a taoist perspective sababu ndio context iliopo mezani. Wewe ukiidefine kwa context nyingine hatutofikia suluhisho kamwe. Sababu mti ninaouona mimi kama mbao kwa kuwa mm ni selemala, wewe utauona kama kuni kwa kuwa wewe ni mpishi.

Kama uko tyr kuelewa tafsiri yangu ya Nature, leta hoja yako nitakujibu. Lakini kama unalazimisha kuleta maana tofauti ya Nature (from another perspective), sitoweza kukujibu sababu ni nje ya ninachotaka kuongelea hapa.

Hujajibu maswali yangu kwa kituo.

Pia, huelewi katika Taoism wamesema kwamba, the Tao that can be described in words is not the true Tao.

Yani ukijiona unaweza kuielezea tu Tao kwa maneno, ujue ushakosea hiyo unayoielezea si Tao yenyewe.

So, you are basically setting yourself for failure here by trying to describe the Tao in words.

Hiyo tafsiri tu ya kutoka Kichina kwenda Kiingereza tu inazaa migogoro.

The Tao that can be told is not the true Tao

I’ve been re-reading the Tao Te Ching this week, inspired to return to the ancient text by my review of Ursula Le Guin’s selected stories for my Weird Things column at The Guardian. The…

damiengwalter.com

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.

*
The Reason that can be reasoned is not the eternal Reason. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name.

*

The Tao that can be trodden is not the enduring and
unchanging Tao. The name that can be named is not the enduring and
unchanging name.

*

If you can talk about it,
it ain’t Tao.
If it has a name,
it’s just another thing.

 

[kali linux]

Hujajibu maswali yangu kwa kituo.

Pia, huelewi katika Taoism wamesema kwamba, the Tao that can be described in words is not the true Tao.

Yani ukijiona unaweza kuielezea tu Tao kwa maneno, ujue ushakosea hiyo unayoielezea si Tao yenyewe.

So, you are basically setting yourself for failure here by trying to describe the Tao in words.

Hiyo tafsiri tu ya kutoka Kichina kwenda Kiingereza tu inazaa migogoro.

The Tao that can be told is not the true Tao

I’ve been re-reading the Tao Te Ching this week, inspired to return to the ancient text by my review of Ursula Le Guin’s selected stories for my Weird Things column at The Guardian. The…

damiengwalter.com

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.

*
The Reason that can be reasoned is not the eternal Reason. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name.

*

The Tao that can be trodden is not the enduring and
unchanging Tao. The name that can be named is not the enduring and
unchanging name.

*

If you can talk about it,
it ain’t Tao.
If it has a name,
it’s just another thing.

Safi... kwanza angalau unaingia kwenye context ninayoongelea hapa. That means I can answer your questions.

Lakini jua kwamba umeniambia ni-define Nature, na sio Tao.

Nature na Tao sio kitu kimoja.

Kwenye Taoism Nature na Tao ni concepts zinazohusiana lakini sio kitu kimoja.

Na toka juu kabisa nilipoongelea Nguvu kuu niliquote hio aya inayosema "....Tao that can be named is not an eternal Tao..." niliposema kwamba hii Nguvu kuu haielezeki.

Nature ni Manifestation ya Tao. Nature sio Tao.

Sasa kwa Kuwa Tao haielezeki lkn inaji-manifest kwa kutumia nature, ndio maana Taoists tunafundishwa kuji-align na hio nature. By aligning with that nature, and respecting the natural flow of things, we live in accordance to the Tao.

Bado una swali? Nitakujibu as long as you stay in the context.