Je, wajua kuwa Zanzibar haikuridhia Muungano? Ina Maana Gani?

Kumbe tatizo lako ni hizo hadithi potofu za huyo kibaraka wa masultani! Pole sana, sasa sahau kabisa kuwa hao masultani watarudi na kutawala tena Zanzibar.
 

I posted the link to the below reference in this forum in one of the topics. I am anticipating to be branded a puppet. But hold on a minute, is that a scare? Just because I stumbled on a reference and dwelled on it, I could be a puppet. Really?

But at least this appears to be anything closer to some "evidence" or documentation we have regarding this subject, and not just personal assertions.

Take time, read the declassified document: http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/ESAU/esau-28.pdf

Seems the Union was ratified, and yes, by Zanzibar:

"In Zanzibar, the union was not popular. Even within Karume's own Afro-Shirazi Party, leaders of the youth league and the principal trade union were strongly opposed to it; they are reported to have privately protested to Karume and to have had at least one secret meeting with Babu.

It was a reflection of Karume's power position that he was able to obtain Zanzibar's ratification of the agreement even though only one third of the Revolutionary Council voted in favor of it.

According to _________ he had to raise the threat of intervention by Kenya, Uganda, and the UK; even so, 10 of the 20 Revolutionary Council members present reportedly abstained.

The news of the union appears to have caught all the the major world powers by surprise. Although the UK and the U.S. and many African countries avoided making a public statement of approval, because they did not want to embarrass Nyerere or risk having the union represented as an "imperialist plot". The the Western press was enthusiastic in its praise of Nyerere for "having pulled off a diplomatic master stroke that would slow, if not halt, Communist penetration of Zanzibar."
 
Gwalihenzi said:
Kumbe tatizo lako ni hizo hadithi potofu za huyo kibaraka wa masultani! Pole sana, sasa sahau kabisa kuwa hao masultani watarudi na kutawala tena Zanzibar.
Click to expand...

ndivyo unavyodanganywa kanisani hivyo,

WAAACHE HAO WAZEE WA KANISA WATAFUNE SADAKA NA KUJITAFUNIA VIKONDOO

SIKILIZA UKWELI HUU

[video]http://www.mzalendo.net/habari/video/videokwanini-tusiirejeshe-jamhuri-ya-watu-wa-zanzibar[/video]
 
gwalihenzi said:
habari hizo wapelekee wanauamsho wenzako wasioijua historia ya zanzibar
Click to expand...

naelewa wewe ndio wale kondoo ambao ndio ni kama huu muungano umegeuka ni sikio la kufa wala hakuna dawa inayoweza kukuponyesha wewe
 
Ningependekeza thread hii iunganishwe na ile ya mwanzo ili kuwe na mtiriko mzuri. Inavyoonekana maswali hayajibiwi tunakimbilia kujadili kitu kile kile katika thread nyingine.

Hebu ziunganishwe ili yawepo maswali, ufafanuzi na majibu. Vinginevyo kuna kitu kinakwepwa!
 
kwamwewe said:
naelewa wewe ndio wale kondoo ambao ndio ni kama huu muungano umegeuka ni sikio la kufa wala hakuna dawa inayoweza kukuponyesha wewe
Click to expand...
Yule bwana mdogo katibu wa UVCCM wa Pemba aliye shusha mistari ya mitusi ya nguoni mmemchukulia hatua gani? Nakushauri muanze kumpa shule ya adabu, maana yule ni muislamu mwenzenu na alichokifanya mbele ya wasoma dua hakikua cha uislamu ,au vipi jamaa yangu?
 
There is more documentation to the subject.

This time by the body that recognizes soverign states, the one and only UN.

United Nations Treaty Collections

United Republic of Tanzania:

Note 1.

The People's Republic of Zanzibar was admitted to membership on 16 December 1963 by Resolution No. 1975 (XVIII). For the text of the Declaration of acceptance of the obligations contained in the Charter dated 10 December 1963 made by Zanzibar (registered under No. 7016), see United Nations, Treaty Series , vol. 483, p. 237.

In a note addressed to the Secretary General on 6 May 1964, the Ministry of External Affairs of the United Republic of Tanzania informed him that, following the signature and ratification of the Articles of Union between the Republic of Tanganyika and the People's Republic of Zanzibar, the two countries had been united on 26 April 1964, as one sovereign State under the name of the United Republic of Tanganyika and Zanzibar.

The Ministry further asked the Secretary-General "to note that the United Republic of Tanganyika and Zanzibar declares that it is now a single Member of the United Nations bound by the provisions of the Charter, and that all international treaties and agreements in force between the Republic of Tanganyika or the People's Republic of Zanzibar and other States or international organizations will, to the extent that their implementation is consistent with the constitutional position established by the Articles of the Union, remain in force within the regional limits prescribed on their conclusion and in accordance with the principles of international law".

---##---

Professor Shivji.

In The Travails of the Tanganyika-Zanzibar Union, Jenerali Ulimwengu (in pages Pages 5-7) reviews Professor Issa G. Shivji's book "Pan-Africanism or Pragmatism? Lessons of Tanganyika-Zanzibar Union".

I think there were too many unhappy faces. Too many unanswered questions. In the interest of giving the benefit of doubt, taking into consideration the murky circumstances, those who asserted there was no ratification union, were probably those who were sidelined by Karume (i.e Jumbe et al). While I cannot dare to fit into the revered Prof Shifji's shoes, that doesn't remove the possibility of him taking sides, albeit in his book. No one is ever impartial.

This is not to pre-empt your respectable judgement though. Please, take a read:

"The contents of Chapter Five will no doubt be of great interest to constitutional lawyers, who may want to mull over the Union's legal/constitutional foundations. This section sets out to show that there was very little thorough consultation between the two partners and that whereas Tanganyika was served by competent legal counsel, as already seen, Zanzibar was not. Even attempts by Salim Rashid to enlist the services of a Ugandan lawyer, Dan Nabudere, came to naught because, according to evidence adduced by Shivji, Nabudere was apparently confronted with a fait accompli. According to the author, Nyerere, with the help of a British lawyer, Roland Brown, had seen to that.

There is indeed considerable confusion as to who among the Zanzibari leadership did and who did not know in advance of the decision to proceed with the unification of the two countries. The account in the book gives the impression of revolving doors in a comedy of errors, with characters coming and going without necessarily interacting with each other.

The suggestion by Shivji is that the confusion was organised, because Karume did not want too many members of the Revolutionary Council to know what was afoot, as most of them would have opposed it. Even after reading this part at least twice, this reviewer cannot pronounce himself with certainty as to who was privy to the whole process of the signing of the Union.

Problems persisted after the signing of the agreement. While the Tanganyikan parliament met to ratify the Articles of Union, the same cannot be said of the Revolutionary Council of Zanzibar, and Shivji presents testimonies of people who should have known (eg. Jumbe and Salim Rashid) asserting that no such ratification came to pass. Shivji marshals closely knit legal and constitutional arguments in this section with a view to demonstrating that the Union was seriously flawed from its very inception because the requisite legal and constitutional steps were not followed through because, suggesting that one side to the bargain was bent on manipulation while the other just did not have the capacity to comprehend what was going on."
 
[h=1]Privity of Contract Definition:[/h] A doctrine of contract law that prevents any person from seeking the enforcement of a contract, or suing on its terms, unless they are a party to that contract.
Sasa kwa lugha nyepesi nchi zingine zote hawa wezi kuongelea suala hili kwani wao si wahusika wa huu mkataba.
Kwa wananchi wa Tanzania wanawakilishwa na viongozi wao.
Uingereza na ujanja wao wapo kwenye European union bila watu wao kupiga kura, kwani wali wakilishwa na viongozi wao. na conservative na makelele yao ya kusema wataitisha kura ya maoni hawa elekei kama wata wafanya hivyo.
 

Sisi si Maaskofu tunaochukua sheria za nchi mikononi mwetu

wewe ndio wale kondoo ambao ndio ni kama huu muungano umegeuka ni sikio la kufa wala hakuna dawa inayoweza kukuponyesha wewe
 
Mag3 said:
[MENTION=9488]...hapa tunamtaka aseme ni chombo kipi huko Zanzibar kilitakiwa (kiutaratibu) kiridhie Muungano mwaka 1964 na hakikufanya hivyo.
Click to expand...
Anaesema Muungano uliridhiwa ndio ana mzigo wa kusema nani aliridhia. Pasco hawezi ku prove a negative.

Watu wa Pwani huwa tunasema - na Wazanzibari hapa watanielewa - tunasema huwezi ku test na ku prove kwamba baharini hakuna kibwengo, ila anaedai kwamba kibwengo yupo ndio tutamuuliza, umemuona wapi Kibwengo na alikufanya nini. Maana huwezi kuambiwa u prove kitu ambacho wewe unasema hakipo, utaki test vipi wakati hakipo?

Pasco yeye amesema "Zanzibar haikuridhia Muungano." Sasa nyinyi semeni, nyinyi mnaosema uliridhiwa, tutajieni chombo gani au nani aliridhia Muungano Zanzibar, lini, wapi na kwa nyaraka gani.
 
Taso said:

Pasco yeye amesema "Zanzibar haikuridhia Muungano." Sasa nyinyi semeni, nyinyi mnaosema uliridhiwa, tutajieni chombo gani au nani aliridhia Muungano Zanzibar, lini, wapi na kwa nyaraka gani.
Click to expand...

Uliridhiwa na Baraza la Mapinduzi, Zanzibar, April 22, 1964.
 

Na aliposema Muungano ni kama koti likikubana unaweza livua,,kwa maana ya walioungana kuachana/tengana maana yake ilikuwa nn?
 
Pasco..ni mada nzuri..unajua katika historia ya karibuni ya ulimwengu nadhani hakuna muungano wa nchi na nchi ikawa nchi moja( kama nimekosea unweza kunisahihisha).zipo nchi ziliunganishwa kwa nguvu kutokana na matokeo ya kihistoria kama USSR ilivokuwa ambayo nayo imesambaratika kwani hakukua na maridhiano katika muungano ule.pia kuna muungano wa nchi kama YUGOSLAVIA, nayo pia ilisambaratika, pia Muungano unaojulikana zaidi wa United Kingdom, nao pia ulikuwa wa nguvu zaidi.waingereza nao pia walitumia nguvu zaid kuliko maelewano, nao pia leo Ireland imejitoa,na Scortland nayo inapiga kura ya kujitoa.
pia kama tutakumbuka Indonesia ili annex East timor kwa nguvu lakini hatimae ilibidi iwape uhuru nchi hio.
Kuna nchi ambazo awali zilikuwa moja kama Sudan, lakini sasa imegawanyika kuwa nchi mbila na kuna uwezekano mkubwa Darfur nayo ikajitenga na sudan pia !. Hoja yangu ni kuonesha kwamba haiwezekani kuunganisha nchi bila ya mazungumzo na maelewano kufanyika kwa uwazi mkubwa na kwa kuwashirikisha wananchi ambao umefanikiwa kuhimili upinzani.
na muungano wowote wa nchi ambo wananchi hawakushirikishwa unakosa uhalali wa kisheria.hapa wana nchi ni shareholders...wanatakiwa kushirikishwa.lakini mifani ya Miungano hapo juu haikufnywa kwa ridhaa ya wananchi.
sasa tuje kwenye Muungano wetu.Nyerere alifika Zanzibar tarehe 22 April 1964 Akiwa Mkononi na Makubaliano ya Muungano.(Article of Union). na alifika ikulu ya Zanzibar akiwa na timu yake kamili akiwa na Rshid Kawawa, Oscar Kambona na Job Lusinde. , Zanzibar alikuwepo pia akishuhudia Abdala Kassim Hanga,Abdul aziz Talla( hawa wawili kwa bahati mbaya wameuliwa na serikali bila ya mashtaka) na mwengine ni Salim Rashid( huyu yeye anapinga kuwapo Ratification ya Articles of union mpaka karibuni alipeleka kesi mahakama ya zanzibar ). Article hizi alizitunga Nyerere kutoka kwa mwana sheria wa Tanganyika Mwingereza Ronald Brown ! ..kwa upande wa Zanzibar mwanasheria wake Worlfang Dourado hakuwepo na hakuwa anajua kitu na kwa ukweli alipewa likizo ya mwezi mmoja.
sasa ukiangalia mwenendo mzima huu utaona kuna hila ilitumika kufikia Muungano huu, na hila hizi ndio zilisababisha watu wengi kuuliwa na kupotea kila wanapohoji uhalali wa Mungano.

kwa ujumla watu wa zanzibar wamekuwa na ushirikiano wa muda mrefu baina yao.kabla ya uhuru na kwa nyuma zaidi na hakukua na mikwaruzano, ila tatizo kubwa lipo hapa kwenye uhalali wake na watu wanao usimamia kutaka kulazimisha makosa yao ili Watanzania wote wakubali yale wanayoamini wao hata kama ni makosa.Tanganyika japo ni nchi kubwa kwa mraba,kwa watu na kwa uchumi kuliko zanzibar hata hivyo nao hawakushirikishwa katika maamuzi haya.na watawala wana sahau kwamba hizi nchi ni mbili na makosa yametendeka huko nyuma kufanikisha Muungano ambao no fake.lakini wanakuwa wahafidhina wasiotaka kujadili hili tatizo.
Nini CHA KUFANYA? ina onekana CCM wao kama wameliteka suala la muungano na hakuna mwengine yoyote katika vyma vingine mabye ana haki ya kuhoji huu muungano.wataamua mstakabali wake wao pekee yao.si chadema wala cuf au nccr ambao wana ubavu wowote wa kuhoji au kupendekeza.(rejea zitto alivo shambuliwa na wana ccm kuhusu maoni yake kwamba baadhi ya mambo yameingizwa kimabavu ndani ya muungano).
kutokana na msimamo huu wa ccm njia pekee ya kuoboresha muungano huu ili ukubalike ni kwa vyama vya ushindani vyote waache sera ya ccm ya kushikilia kwamba ni dhambi kujadili muungano, wafanye utafiti ni mfumo upi bora unafaa ili muungano huu usife,waweke sera iliyowazi katika vyama vyao juu ya muungano huu.,wasiruhusiwe ccm pekee kuwa ndio wenye muungano, kama muungano ni wa kweli na halali basi kila mtanzania anao haki kuujadili na kuoboresha.ajenda kubwa ya maoni ya katiba kuhusu muungano kuwe na serikali tatu na MFUMO PEKEE AMBAO UKO LIVE NA UNAELEKEA KUFAULU NA SI VIBAYA KAMA TUTA IGA ANGALAU KIDOGO BASI NI MUUNGANO WA FALME ZA KIARABU YAANI UNITED ARAB EMIRATES-UAE..Hawa wenzetu kuna muunano na serikali kuu na pia kuna serikali ndogo ndani yake kama dubai,sharjah,ajmain,ras khaimah,abu dhabi na nyengine....tutafiti nchi hizi zimewezaje kuwa na muungano wenye maridhiano na kwa kiasi kikubwa nchi zao inapiga hatua za maendeleo, vipi wanagawana rasilimali zao, vipi wanafanya mambo ya kodi,ulinzi,posta,simu,mahusiano yao na nje,nk....pia cha kuungaliwa ni utamaduni wa hizi nchi zetu zilizo ungana zanzibar inajulikana kwamba ni ni nchi yenye waislam wengi,wakati tanganyika ni nchi yenye makabila mengi na dini kubwa mbili.
sasa ni ukweli usio fichika zanzibar itataka kuwa na mahusiano na umoja wa nchi za kiislam,au pia kuwa memba wa umoja wa nchi za visiwa vya bahari ya hindi..hili ni kutokana na geografia ilivo...Muungano isiwe kikwazo kwa sababu mambo mje ni yamuungano...ukweli imefika mahali huu muungano uzungumzwe..na ufanywe marekibisho..hakuna anaetakwa usiwepo lakini kwa hali ya sasa i dont think kama uta survive another 10 years hata kama nguvu zitatumika.
KWANI WANAPINGA ZAIDI SASA SIO WALE WAZEE WALIKUWEPO WAKATI WA KUUNGANA WANAOPINGA NI VIJANA WASOMI AMBAO WAMEZALIA MIAKA YA 70'S NA 80'S HAWAMJUI KARUME, HAWAMJUI NYERERE,HAWAMJUI HATA SULTANI,LAKINI WAMEKAA NA KUONA KUNA TATIZO.HAWA WAMESOMA WANAJUA NINI UZURI NA UBAYA.
MUUNGANO UNATAKIWA KUJADILIWA ILI TUUDUMISHE TUWACHANE NA SERA ZA CCM KWAMBA HUU UPO HIVI HIVI HATA MKASEMA NINI HAUBADILKI HAYA NI MAWAZO YA KISHETANI NA UPOFU
 
Pasco..ni mada nzuri..unajua katika historia ya karibuni ya ulimwengu nadhani hakuna muungano wa nchi na nchi ikawa nchi moja( kama nimekosea unweza kunisahihisha).zipo nchi ziliunganishwa kwa nguvu kutokana na matokeo ya kihistoria kama USSR ilivokuwa ambayo nayo imesambaratika kwani hakukua na maridhiano katika muungano ule.pia kuna muungano wa nchi kama YUGOSLAVIA, nayo pia ilisambaratika, pia Muungano unaojulikana zaidi wa United Kingdom, nao pia ulikuwa wa nguvu zaidi.waingereza nao pia walitumia nguvu zaid kuliko maelewano, nao pia leo Ireland imejitoa,na Scortland nayo inapiga kura ya kujitoa.
pia kama tutakumbuka Indonesia ili annex East timor kwa nguvu lakini hatimae ilibidi iwape uhuru nchi hio.
Kuna nchi ambazo awali zilikuwa moja kama Sudan, lakini sasa imegawanyika kuwa nchi mbila na kuna uwezekano mkubwa Darfur nayo ikajitenga na sudan pia !. Hoja yangu ni kuonesha kwamba haiwezekani kuunganisha nchi bila ya mazungumzo na maelewano kufanyika kwa uwazi mkubwa na kwa kuwashirikisha wananchi ambao umefanikiwa kuhimili upinzani.
na muungano wowote wa nchi ambo wananchi hawakushirikishwa unakosa uhalali wa kisheria.hapa wana nchi ni shareholders...wanatakiwa kushirikishwa.lakini mifani ya Miungano hapo juu haikufnywa kwa ridhaa ya wananchi.
sasa tuje kwenye Muungano wetu.Nyerere alifika Zanzibar tarehe 22 April 1964 Akiwa Mkononi na Makubaliano ya Muungano.(Article of Union). na alifika ikulu ya Zanzibar akiwa na timu yake kamili akiwa na Rshid Kawawa, Oscar Kambona na Job Lusinde. , Zanzibar alikuwepo pia akishuhudia Abdala Kassim Hanga,Abdul aziz Talla( hawa wawili kwa bahati mbaya wameuliwa na serikali bila ya mashtaka) na mwengine ni Salim Rashid( huyu yeye anapinga kuwapo Ratification ya Articles of union mpaka karibuni alipeleka kesi mahakama ya zanzibar ). Article hizi alizitunga Nyerere kutoka kwa mwana sheria wa Tanganyika Mwingereza Ronald Brown ! ..kwa upande wa Zanzibar mwanasheria wake Worlfang Dourado hakuwepo na hakuwa anajua kitu na kwa ukweli alipewa likizo ya mwezi mmoja.
sasa ukiangalia mwenendo mzima huu utaona kuna hila ilitumika kufikia Muungano huu, na hila hizi ndio zilisababisha watu wengi kuuliwa na kupotea kila wanapohoji uhalali wa Mungano.

kwa ujumla watu wa zanzibar wamekuwa na ushirikiano wa muda mrefu baina yao.kabla ya uhuru na kwa nyuma zaidi na hakukua na mikwaruzano, ila tatizo kubwa lipo hapa kwenye uhalali wake na watu wanao usimamia kutaka kulazimisha makosa yao ili Watanzania wote wakubali yale wanayoamini wao hata kama ni makosa.Tanganyika japo ni nchi kubwa kwa mraba,kwa watu na kwa uchumi kuliko zanzibar hata hivyo nao hawakushirikishwa katika maamuzi haya.na watawala wana sahau kwamba hizi nchi ni mbili na makosa yametendeka huko nyuma kufanikisha Muungano ambao no fake.lakini wanakuwa wahafidhina wasiotaka kujadili hili tatizo.
Nini CHA KUFANYA? ina onekana CCM wao kama wameliteka suala la muungano na hakuna mwengine yoyote katika vyma vingine mabye ana haki ya kuhoji huu muungano.wataamua mstakabali wake wao pekee yao.si chadema wala cuf au nccr ambao wana ubavu wowote wa kuhoji au kupendekeza.(rejea zitto alivo shambuliwa na wana ccm kuhusu maoni yake kwamba baadhi ya mambo yameingizwa kimabavu ndani ya muungano).
kutokana na msimamo huu wa ccm njia pekee ya kuoboresha muungano huu ili ukubalike ni kwa vyama vya ushindani vyote waache sera ya ccm ya kushikilia kwamba ni dhambi kujadili muungano, wafanye utafiti ni mfumo upi bora unafaa ili muungano huu usife,waweke sera iliyowazi katika vyama vyao juu ya muungano huu.,wasiruhusiwe ccm pekee kuwa ndio wenye muungano, kama muungano ni wa kweli na halali basi kila mtanzania anao haki kuujadili na kuoboresha.ajenda kubwa ya maoni ya katiba kuhusu muungano kuwe na serikali tatu na MFUMO PEKEE AMBAO UKO LIVE NA UNAELEKEA KUFAULU NA SI VIBAYA KAMA TUTA IGA ANGALAU KIDOGO BASI NI MUUNGANO WA FALME ZA KIARABU YAANI UNITED ARAB EMIRATES-UAE..Hawa wenzetu kuna muunano na serikali kuu na pia kuna serikali ndogo ndani yake kama dubai,sharjah,ajmain,ras khaimah,abu dhabi na nyengine....tutafiti nchi hizi zimewezaje kuwa na muungano wenye maridhiano na kwa kiasi kikubwa nchi zao inapiga hatua za maendeleo, vipi wanagawana rasilimali zao, vipi wanafanya mambo ya kodi,ulinzi,posta,simu,mahusiano yao na nje,nk....pia cha kuungaliwa ni utamaduni wa hizi nchi zetu zilizo ungana zanzibar inajulikana kwamba ni ni nchi yenye waislam wengi,wakati tanganyika ni nchi yenye makabila mengi na dini kubwa mbili.
sasa ni ukweli usio fichika zanzibar itataka kuwa na mahusiano na umoja wa nchi za kiislam,au pia kuwa memba wa umoja wa nchi za visiwa vya bahari ya hindi..hili ni kutokana na geografia ilivo...Muungano isiwe kikwazo kwa sababu mambo mje ni yamuungano...ukweli imefika mahali huu muungano uzungumzwe..na ufanywe marekibisho..hakuna anaetakwa usiwepo lakini kwa hali ya sasa i dont think kama uta survive another 10 years hata kama nguvu zitatumika.
KWANI WANAPINGA ZAIDI SASA SIO WALE WAZEE WALIKUWEPO WAKATI WA KUUNGANA WANAOPINGA NI VIJANA WASOMI AMBAO WAMEZALIA MIAKA YA 70'S NA 80'S HAWAMJUI KARUME, HAWAMJUI NYERERE,HAWAMJUI HATA SULTANI,LAKINI WAMEKAA NA KUONA KUNA TATIZO.HAWA WAMESOMA WANAJUA NINI UZURI NA UBAYA.
MUUNGANO UNATAKIWA KUJADILIWA ILI TUUDUMISHE TUWACHANE NA SERA ZA CCM KWAMBA HUU UPO HIVI HIVI HATA MKASEMA NINI HAUBADILKI HAYA NI MAWAZO YA KISHETANI NA UPOFU
 
soma hii hapa utajua ni kiasi gani kuna tatizo hapa.....na bila ya kuondoka ccm huu muungano hautakubalika..wamepoteza watu wengi hawa kwa kuhoji tu muungano..na hili si suluhisho...
 
SOMENI HII

http://www.zanzinet.org/files/legality_union.pdf
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…