Kikwete azindua mradi wa Umeme uliojengwa na Kanisa Katoliki

[FJM]

@Mkandara, labda tukuabaliane kwanza kwamba ni kitu gani hasa kinaifanya serikali/nchi iwe ina dini, au secular? Kwa uelewa wangu ni sheria mama yaani Katiba. Katiba ndiyo inayotoa mwongozo kwamba nchi itaendeshwaje na haki za watu ni zipi etc etc.

Na ili mtu awe ametenda kosa ni lazima kwenye sheria mama kuwepo na kifungu kinachosema hivyo. Kwa mfano nchi zinazongozwa na SHARIA kama IRAN na Saudia, ndani ya sheria zao wanaruhusu watu wa dini nyingine kuabudu kivyao (with specific instructions). Pombe ni haramu na ukikamatwa unakunywa pombe hadharani hata kama wewe ni mkristo utachukuliwa hatua kwa sababu sheria za nchi hazirusuhu. Kama watakufumbia haimanishi hujavunja sheria maana sheria ipo inayokataza kufanya hivyo.

Hivyo basi, ili kuwepo na kosa, lazima katiba iwe imetamka kwamba kufanya jambo fulani ni kinyume na sheria za nchi. Sasa ni kifungu gani cha sheria kinachokataza serikali kushirikiana na taasisi za dini katika kutoa huduma za jamii?

Hapana mkuu wangu umekosea sana kwa kuchagua vile visivyofuatwa..Na wala nchi inapokuwa na dini haina maana watu wanalazimishwa kufuata ndio iwe maana ya serikali kuwa na dini. Unaweza kwenda kusali ama kutokwenda kusali hata ktk nchi yenye mfumo wa kidini..Iran wanaongozwa na serikali yao ya dini, lakini mkristu na Jews wanaendesha imani zao hawalazimishwi ya Uislaam.

Hivyo vipo vinavyowezekana ama kutowezekana, wala sii swala la kula nguruwe au kutokula ndio dini, dini ni imani ya kiroho ambayo serikali yetu haiwajibiki kufuata values zake. Na inapoweka muafaka na kanisa ndio kabisaa inaondoa hata fikra za kwamba sera (policies) hulenga kuweka sheria na fursa kwa vyombo vyote vya aina hiyo. Kazi ya serikali ni kuunda sera (policy) ambayo inawawezesha wote wenye kujihusisha na shughuli hiyo kujua haki zao sio chombo kimoja na vingine viombe vitapewa..Hii imekuwa kutafuta mapenzi au nini?

Sisi tutafuata tafsiri ya katiba yetu kulingana na hali halisi. Joint partnership baina ya serikali na kanisa haiwezi kuondoa ukweli kwamba serikali imekiuka katiba. Huwezi kuindoa serikali ndani ya mradi wa kanisa wala kanisa ktk mradi huo na maamuzi wanayafanya kamati ya kanisa wakati fedha za wananchi zinatumika kuendesha mradi huo. Wewe nambie sababu ya kukataa OIC au mahakama ya kadhi kwa kutumia mifano yako hapo juu..

 

[FJM]

Kwanini mimi na Mkandara tuchangie wakati tunachangia katika hela mnayoiba kutoka kwenye kodi zetu. Kila mwezi 0.01 ya kodi yangu inaenda katika MoU ya kanisa je Bakwata wanapata ngapi???? Pia ni akina nani Bakwata na imeanzishwaje na je inawawakilisha akina nani?

@Mdondoaji, ikiwa kwa mfano mimi na wewe tunafanya kazi kampuni moja, na kila mara nalalamika kuwe wewe unalipwa mshahara mkubwa lakini pale unaponiuliza mshahara wangu ni kiasi gani mimi naendelea kulalamika bila kuutaja kiasi kinachopata utashindwa kujua hata nia yangu nini! Mimi nimekuuliza very specific kwamba kama una uwezo wa kujua kanisa wanapata kiasi gani, kwa nini usituambie na nyie waislam mnapata kiasi gani? Mnapata hela au hampti?

Hoja ya kwamba BAKWATA (for decades) imeanzishwaje does not hold water. Unataka nani asafishe BAKWATA? Kakobe kaweza kuanzisha kanisa lake mwenyewe, (from scratch) nyie waislam milioni kadhaa mnashindwa kusafisha BAKWATA?

 

[Zing]

Kujibu swali ndio serikali ina dini na dini yake ni Ukristo dhehebu la katoliki.

So if we get rid of wakatoliki au wakatoliki wote wakifa problem is over?

Sababu yake nenda katika thread ya OIC na Mahakama ya Kadhi na thread ya MoU ya serikali na makanisa

unaaza kujichanganya hata tukiondoa kanisa katoliki basi Mou itakuwepo ya makanisa mengine. So labda rekebisha sentensi yako pale Juu.Kama hujasoma Mou vizuri basi elewa ni zaidi ya Katoliki. Lakini naona wewe umetaja makanisa. So Accrdng to your view is it kanisa katoliki au Makanisa ndio dini ya serikali?

Niliposema serikali inapinga hivyo vitu lakini yenyewe iko katika kupendelea ukristo na nimetoa vifungo mfano kifungu cha sheria ya ndoa ya mwaka 1970s kinasema mke anayetambuliwa kisheria ni mke mmoja (waislamu wameachwa pembeni).

Hiyo ya mke mmoja ni natural law sio law ya kanisa it just happened kuwa na kanisa linaitumbua sheri zake zinasisistiza ndoa ya mke na mme mmoja. Lakini kumbuka kuna TAMWA nao ni watanzania wana mapekdekezo yao . So kuachwa sio kwa waialas pekee kuna sheri za ndoa kwa activist wanawake zinawatenga. Kuna sheria za nchi zinawatenga wajaruo, wahaya wachaga, etc . Nadhani umewai kusikia juu ya mizozo ya kimila ya mirathi. makabila mbali mbali .

So labda Nitakubalina na wewe ukitambua kuwa sheria hizi pia zimewaacha pembeni wajaruo, wanawake , etc.

Pia kuna kifungu katika katiba section 11 kimebadilishwa hasa haki ya elimu kutoka kuwa jukumu la serikali kuwa serikali itasaidia upatikanaji wa elimu. Vile vile sheria ya Education Act No 25 ya 1975 imebadilishwa hasa section 30 imeondolewa katika Education Cap (353)na Education Act ya 1995 kwani sheria ile inapingana na MoU ya Kanisa na Serikali.

Haya lengo la mabadiliko haya kwenye act wanasema ni nini.? nadhani Ni kuondoa mfumo kandamizi wa Nyerere uliozuia huduma za jamii kusambaa. Sijui unasemaje hilo ? Je anayefaidika na kuathirika na hii ni nani.? Ni wakristu tu , ni waislam tu. Ni wale wa mjini , Ni wale wa vijijini ni watanzania.

Tayari umeshamtaja nyerere kwenye uzi huu kuonyesha yeye niyo chanzo cha matatizo ya kijamii. Sasa with Nyerere resting in .......(peace /hell) hope things now are getting better and best

Sasa nakuuliza je watendaji wa sheria wakiwa wanavunja katiba (misingi yake) je bado suala la serikali haina dini litakuwapo????

lakini mbona na wewe hujibu kwa nini scope ya analysis yao inaishia kwenye dini tu. Are u really analytical or you are an activist. Mara nyingi nimeandika the way unavyoapproach problem inaweza kuwa kikwazo cha kujua chanzo cha tatizona hat suluisho la tatizo. Try to analyse the problem form difffrent angles.( Dini, Makabila,Jinsia, Umri Urban , Rural ,etc)

Kifupi sijui spefically unaogelea watedaji gani hao wa "sheria", walingia mikataba gani yeye masharti gani. Sababu mara nyingi naona zinazotumika ni hisia.
Nachoshangaa mdonoaji ni watu kam wewe kwneye uzi huu umeshamtaja Nyerere . Unsuprisingy u d ont dare kumtaja Mrisho Kikwete. Why?

Ila usisahau swali langu kwa nini umeuliza serikali haina dini ? na sio kuhusu jinsia au kabila au umri

 

[Zing]

Unauliza huleiwi au! Kama huelewi ulikuwa unabisha kitu gani.. na sijui kama umenisoma vizuri naona kama umerukia treni kwa mbele vile!

Nitalindania tu treni mradi nipate darasa a . Nieleweshe kuhusu njia kuu za uchumi kuwa uelewa wako . Japo tano

• Hospitali nazo zimo?
  
• Shule nazo zimo?
  
• Madini
• etc

Shukrani

 

[Rugemeleza]

Kama ina dini...ni dini gani? Sidhani kama serikali ya Tanzania inaamini kuwa Yesu Kristo mwenye umungu mmoja na baba ndiye Bwana na mkombozi wetu! Kwa hiyo mnataka kutuambia hii serikali inayoongozwa na Dr JK akisaidiana na Dr Bilali na kule visiwani Dr Shein na mweziwe Maalim Seif (Dr?) nayo ni ya kikristo/kikatoliki?

Kujibu swali ndio serikali ina dini na dini yake ni Ukristo dhehebu la katoliki.

Sababu yake nenda katika thread ya OIC na Mahakama ya Kadhi na thread ya MoU ya serikali na makanisa niliposema serikali inapinga hivyo vitu lakini yenyewe iko katika kupendelea ukristo na nimetoa vifungo mfano kifungu cha sheria ya ndoa ya mwaka 1970s kinasema mke anayetambuliwa kisheria ni mke mmoja (waislamu wameachwa pembeni). Pia kuna kifungu katika katiba section 11 kimebadilishwa hasa haki ya elimu kutoka kuwa jukumu la serikali kuwa serikali itasaidia upatikanaji wa elimu. Vile vile sheria ya Education Act No 25 ya 1975 imebadilishwa hasa section 30 imeondolewa katika Education Cap (353)na Education Act ya 1995 kwani sheria ile inapingana na MoU ya Kanisa na Serikali.


Sasa nakuuliza je watendaji wa sheria wakiwa wanavunja katiba (misingi yake) je bado suala la serikali haina dini litakuwapo????

Si kweli unavyosema Sheria ya Ndoa ya Nchi yetu inatambua ndoa za aina mbili: ndoa ya mke mmoja na ndoa ya wake wengi. Sijui hiyo vifungu vyako unavyovisema umevitoa wapI?
(a) The Nature of Marriage

9.-(l) Marriage means the voluntary union of a man and a woman,

intended to last for their joint lives.

(2) A monogamous marriage is a union between one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others.
(3) A polygamous marriage is a union in which the husband may during the subsistence, of the marriage be married to or marry another woman or women.



10.-(1) Marriages shall be of two kinds, that is to say-
(a) those that are monogamous or are intended to be monogamous; and
(b) those that are polygamous or are potentially polygamous.


(2) A marriage contracted in Tanganyika, whether contracted before or after the commencement of this Act, shall- (a) if contracted in Islamic form or according to rites recognized by customary law in Tanganyika, be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be polygamous or potentially polygamous; and



(b) in any other case, be presumed to be monogamous, unless the contrary is proved.

11.-(1) A marriage contracted in Tanganyika may be converted-

(a) from monogamous to potentially polygamous; or
(b) if the husband has one, wife only, from potentially polygamous
to monogamous, by a declaration made by the husband and the wife, that they each, of their own free will, agree to the conversion.

(2) A declaration under subsection (1) shall be made in the presence
of a Judge, a resident magistrate or a district magistrate and shall be recorded in writing, signed by the husband and the wife and the person before whom it is made, at the time of making.

(3) The Judge or magistrate before whom a declaration is made under this section shall forthwith transmit a copy thereof to the
Registrar-General.
(4) No marriage shall be converted from monogamous to potentially polygamous or from potentially polygamous to monogamous otherwise
than by a declaration made under this section.
(5) No marriage between two Christians which was celebrated in a church in Christian form may, for so long as both the parties continue to profess the Christian faith, be converted from monogamous to polygamous and the provisions of this section shall not apply to any such marriage, notwithstanding that the marriage was preceded or succeeded by a ceremony of marriage betw


25.-(1) A marriage may, subject to the provisions of this Act, be
contracted in Tanganyika-
(a) in civil form; or
(b) in civil form or, where both the parties belong to a specified religion, according to the rites of that religion; or
(c) if the intended husband is a Muslim, in civil form or in Islamic form; or
(d) where the parties belong to a community or to communities which follow customary law, in civil form or according to the rites of the customary law;
(2) The Minister shall have power, by order published in the Gazette, to authorize the celebration of marriages according to the rites of the religions specified in such order, and may at any time and from time to time vary any such order by the addition thereto or the deletion there- from of the name of any religion but so that the deletion of the name of a religion shall be without prejudice to the validity of any marriage contracted under the rites thereof prior to the publication of such order.
(3) For the purposes of this Act-
(a) a marriage in Islamic form means a marriage contracted in the manner recognized by Islam or by any school or sect of that
faith;
(b) a marriage in Christian form means a marriage celebrated in a church in the manner recognized by Christian faith or by any denomination or sect of that faith.

 

[Bishop Hiluka]

Narudia tena huna hoja umekuja na kauli za kebehi na dharau tukakuuliza maswali huna jibu. Nenda kalale wewe ndio umeaga mie nipo. Halafu ulivyokuwa hujaelimika hujui hata kwanini watu wanatumia majina ya bandia? Nenda kalale ndugu huna hoja tupishe!!!!!!

Kwa vyovyote utakuwa na matatizo ya akili, si bure...

 

[Bishop Hiluka]

By Zing
Mdondoaji ebu fanya analysis yako . Tatizo la Tanzania nini?
Ni "kanisa"
Ni kanisa Katoliki?
Ni wakristu ?
Ni baadhi tu ya wakirstu?
Ni baadhi ya waislam?
Ni baadhi ya wakristu na baadhi waislam
Ni baahi ya watanzania?

BTN
kwa nini unapenda kupindua thred kuzitoa kwenye hoja ya msingi. Unamtja Nyerere mzee alishakufa wakati kwenye mada iliyopo mbele sterling ni kanisa ( RC) na Rais mrisho kikwete (Muislam) na umeme.

Tatizo la Tanzania swali moja aliuliza Mkandara Je serikali ya Tanzania HAINA DINI??? Naomba jibu tafadhali.

Mdondoaji, hapa umenithibitishia ukilaza wako, kama nilivyokueleza mwanzo
kuwa huna hoja kwani kazi yako kulalamika tu jambo ambalo haliwezi kukusaidia.
Unaulizwa swali badala ya kujibu unarukia hoja ya Mkandara. Shame on you!

 

[chitambikwa]

sijapenda kuona sare za ccm tu hata kama njano nayo intumiwa na vatican

 

[Candid Scope]

Aliye simama katikati ya Rais Kikwete na Mama Salma ni Mhashamu Askofu wa Jimbo Katoliki la Njombe Alfred Maluma, ndiye mwasisi wa mradi huu akiwa Mkuu katika jimbo la Njombe linalowakilisha wilaya ya Njombe, Ludewa, Makete na wilaya mpya ya Wanging'ombe kwa mitra (kofia) ya utwala wa hierarikia ya kanisa.

 

[Marytina]

tuendelee kunywa gahawa

 

[Fidel80]

Wengine wanazalisha umeme, wengine wanataka kadhi.

Na huo umeme unatumiwa na wote

 

[SMU]

......Tatizo la Watanzania ni KANISA KATOLIKI.

Mara mseme tatizo ni mfumo kristo/kristu mara mseme ni kanisa katoliki! Kwa hivyo kanisa katoliki likiondoka basi matatizo ya watanzania (waislamu) yanaisha?

 

[Candid Scope]

sijapenda kuona sare za ccm tu hata kama njano nayo intumiwa na vatican

Ukitaka kujua mtu aliyetumwa kifikra ndio hao wanaovaa mavzi ya CCM kwenye tukio la kitaifa ambalo CCM hawana chakujisifia vinginevyo wangeonea aibu kwani ni majukumu ambayo walipaswa kuyafanya.
Kma mtakumbuka huyu mbunge wa Njombe kaskanizi kwenye uzinduzi wa hospitali ya kule Makambako karibuni alitilia kofia ya magamba.

 

[SAGAI GALGANO]

BAKWATA hawajatoa tamko kulaaani JK kufungua mradi wa wakatoliki?

 

[andrewk]

RUZUKU - Kwa kodi za wananchi lakini! halafu watalipishwa bill za umeme.

tanesco hawapokei ruzuku?

 

[andrewk]

hawa jamaa walitoa jenereta moja kwa tanesco ili wazalishe umemem wa ludewa mjini

 

[Lu-ma-ga]

Jamani JK hajalalamika udini????, maana mwaka jana wakatoliki walipotoa waraka wa uchaguzi mkuu waliambiwa wanaleta udini, halafu wamemteu Dr.slaa kupambana na mkulu.Leo wameleta umeme imekuwa sera ya CCM kuhamasisha ushirikishwaji wa wakatoliki.Ama kweli Rais tunaye !!!!!!!!!!!!! Aluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!

 

[Mdondoaji]

Si kweli unavyosema Sheria ya Ndoa ya Nchi yetu inatambua ndoa za aina mbili: ndoa ya mke mmoja na ndoa ya wake wengi. Sijui hiyo vifungu vyako unavyovisema umevitoa wapI?
(a) The Nature of Marriage

9.-(l) Marriage means the voluntary union of a man and a woman,

intended to last for their joint lives.

(2) A monogamous marriage is a union between one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others.
(3) A polygamous marriage is a union in which the husband may during the subsistence, of the marriage be married to or marry another woman or women.



10.-(1) Marriages shall be of two kinds, that is to say-
(a) those that are monogamous or are intended to be monogamous; and
(b) those that are polygamous or are potentially polygamous.


(2) A marriage contracted in Tanganyika, whether contracted before or after the commencement of this Act, shall- (a) if contracted in Islamic form or according to rites recognized by customary law in Tanganyika, be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be polygamous or potentially polygamous; and



(b) in any other case, be presumed to be monogamous, unless the contrary is proved.

11.-(1) A marriage contracted in Tanganyika may be converted-

(a) from monogamous to potentially polygamous; or
(b) if the husband has one, wife only, from potentially polygamous
to monogamous, by a declaration made by the husband and the wife, that they each, of their own free will, agree to the conversion.

(2) A declaration under subsection (1) shall be made in the presence
of a Judge, a resident magistrate or a district magistrate and shall be recorded in writing, signed by the husband and the wife and the person before whom it is made, at the time of making.

(3) The Judge or magistrate before whom a declaration is made under this section shall forthwith transmit a copy thereof to the
Registrar-General.
(4) No marriage shall be converted from monogamous to potentially polygamous or from potentially polygamous to monogamous otherwise
than by a declaration made under this section.
(5) No marriage between two Christians which was celebrated in a church in Christian form may, for so long as both the parties continue to profess the Christian faith, be converted from monogamous to polygamous and the provisions of this section shall not apply to any such marriage, notwithstanding that the marriage was preceded or succeeded by a ceremony of marriage betw


25.-(1) A marriage may, subject to the provisions of this Act, be
contracted in Tanganyika-
(a) in civil form; or
(b) in civil form or, where both the parties belong to a specified religion, according to the rites of that religion; or
(c) if the intended husband is a Muslim, in civil form or in Islamic form; or
(d) where the parties belong to a community or to communities which follow customary law, in civil form or according to the rites of the customary law;
(2) The Minister shall have power, by order published in the Gazette, to authorize the celebration of marriages according to the rites of the religions specified in such order, and may at any time and from time to time vary any such order by the addition thereto or the deletion there- from of the name of any religion but so that the deletion of the name of a religion shall be without prejudice to the validity of any marriage contracted under the rites thereof prior to the publication of such order.
(3) For the purposes of this Act-
(a) a marriage in Islamic form means a marriage contracted in the manner recognized by Islam or by any school or sect of that
faith;
(b) a marriage in Christian form means a marriage celebrated in a church in the manner recognized by Christian faith or by any denomination or sect of that faith.

Nenda kasome kipengele cha divorce kinasemaje kwa waislamu usinifanye nikarudia kila mara maneno yale kwa yale. Au nenda katika thread ya mahakama ya kadhi na OIC nimekifafanua Sina muda wa kurudia rudia

 

[Mdondoaji]

Mdondoaji, hapa umenithibitishia ukilaza wako, kama nilivyokueleza mwanzo
kuwa huna hoja kwani kazi yako kulalamika tu jambo ambalo haliwezi kukusaidia.
Unaulizwa swali badala ya kujibu unarukia hoja ya Mkandara. Shame on you!

Are you familiar with research hypothesis. Jibu la swali la mhusika liko katika swali linalouliza Je serikali ya Tanzania haina dini? Sasa chunguzeni matendo yenu mjijibu ila waislamu washawatambua kitambo humdanganyi mtu. Ndio maana wazanzibar hao wanawakimbia tutabakia na Tanganyika yetu tukabane mashati.

 

[Mtumishi Wetu]

Mara mseme tatizo ni mfumo kristo/kristu mara mseme ni kanisa katoliki! Kwa hivyo kanisa katoliki likiondoka basi matatizo ya watanzania (waislamu) yanaisha?

Huyo Bwn Mkandara kafanikiw kuyumbisha mada, badala ya ku concentrate kwenye swala lamsingi la uzinduzi wa mradi wa umeme ameelekeza kwenye negative attitude ya CCM na wana maghamba's!!!!!!!!!! Wacha wivu watu wakijituma kusaidia Watanzania wapewe pongezi sio hujuma na kupotosha watu!!!!!!!!!!!