Gavana
JF-Expert Member
- Jul 19, 2008
- 33,637
- 8,947
John 14:8-9 (hath seen the father):
Well, what about the verse
"He that hath seen me hath seen the father."
Let us look at the context:
"Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
John 14:8-9
Philip wanted to see God with his own eyes, but this is impossible since no one can ever do ever do that. The Bible says:
"No man hath seen God at any time,"
John 1:18
"No man hath seen God at any time,"
1 John 4:12
"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."
John 5:37
But they were listening to Jesus' voice and looking at him standing before them! Jesus was simply simply telling us that his own actions and miracles should be a sufficient proof of the existence of God without God having to physically come down and let himself be seen every time someone is doubtful. This is equivalent to for example:
1)John 8:19: "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."
2)John 12:44 "Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me."
3)John 15:23 "He that hateth me hateth my Father also."
4)Matthew 10:40-41 "He that receiveth you receiveth me (Jesus), and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward."
5)Judges 13:20-22: "For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on [it], and fell on their faces to the ground. But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he [was] an angel of the LORD. And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God."
If we want to insist that when Philip saw Jesus (pbuh), he had actually physically seen God "the Father" because Jesus "is" the father and both are one "Trinity," and Jesus is the "incarnation" of God, then this will force us to conclude that John 1:18, 1 John 4:12, John 5:37..etc. are all lies.
Well, is Philip the only one who ever "saw the father"? Let us read:
"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."
John 6:46
Who is this who "is of God" and had seen the Father you ask? Let us once again ask the Bible:
"He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."
John 8:47.
And
"Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God"
3 John 1:11.
Have all people who have done good also physically seen God?
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the Subtle, the Well-Acquainted [with all things]"
The noble Qur'an, Al-Anaam(6):103
"And when Moses came to the time and place appointed by Us, and His Lord spoke to him he said: 'O my Lord! Show me [Yourself], that I may look upon you.' [Allah] said: You cannot see Me, but look at the mountain. If it stands in its place then you shall see me.' So when his Lord appeared to the mountain He made it disintegrate and Moses fell down unconscious. Then when he awoke he said: 'Glory be to You! I turn to you in repentance and I am the first of the believers'"
The noble Qur'an, Al-Aaraf(7):143
Once again, let us have a look at our table:
Explicit Statement Implicit Statement
God is ONE Isaiah 43:10-11, Deuteronomy 4:39, Isaiah 45:18, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 45:6, Isaiah 45:22, Exodus 20:3, Exodus 34:14
God is TWO
God is THREE
God is MANY
