Mungu Yupo: Majibu kwa Wasioamini

[H1N1]

decent language. hiyo ndiyo concern yangu ndugu yangu. only that. kumwambia mtu hana akili haisound kiungwana.

May be uko right, lakini naomba unisaidie lugha ya kutumia ili huyu mtu anithibitishie kwamba akili ambayo haionekani inaweza kuthibitishwa kwa ushahidi usio shaka,ili nami nitumie namna ile ile ya uthibiti kutoa ushahidi juu ya uwepo wa Mungu ambaye ni ROHO.
Nimetengeneza sentensi kwa mtindo wanaoutumia wakitaka wapewe ushahidi wa uwepo wa Mungu, sioni ni kwa namna ipi naweza kuandika ili hawa wataalam wanisadie namna ya kuthibitisha kama kuna kitu kinaitwa AKILI kwa ushahidi usio shaka.

 

[CYBERTEQ]

Yesu yuko mbele sana kwenye technologia iliyopo, ni YEYE YULE,JANA,LEO na HATA MILELE, nani hao wanaotembea juu ya maji mkuu ? Sina jazba,lakini unapoleta hoja zisizo na TBS kwa na kujiweka nawe GT hapo ndipo unafikiri ni jazba wakati unarudishwa kwenye mstari.

Really? Kama kweli unaamini hivyo basi unaweza kuamini chochote. David Brain can walk on water, hata bwana mdogo DYNAMO anaweza kutembea juu ya maji. Naona umekomaa GT, GT ni initial za majina yangu...!

 

[Kiranga]

Lete majibu ya hoja husika badala ya link. Kwa mtu unayedai kufanya mambo kwa fikra siktarajii link bali majibu mujarabu. Link waachie wengine.

Hahaha, unaogopa kusoma link? Unataka kujua kweli wewe?

Here goes

According to David Harvey, Distinguished Professor of Anthropology at the City University of New York (CUNY),
"Critical theory at its most abstract and general level ... begins as a formal 'negativity.' As a dissenting motif, it selects some tradition, ideological premise, or institutionalized orthodoxy for analysis. As immanent critique, it then 'enters its object,' so to speak, 'boring from within.' Provisionally accepting the methodological presuppositions, substantive premises, and truth-claims of orthodoxy as its own, immanent critique tests the postulates of orthodoxy by the latter's own standards of proof and accuracy. Upon 'entering' the theory, orthodoxy's premises and assertions are registered and certain strategic contradictions located. These contradictions are then developed according to their own logic, and at some point in this process of internal expansion, the one-sided proclamations of orthodoxy collapse as material instances and their contradictions are allowed to develop 'naturally.'"[SUP][3][/SUP]

Mimi nina pa kuanzia wewe huna. Mimi naanza na Mungu na kutoka hapo napata Mantiki kwa sababu nimeumbwa kwa mfano wa Mungu mwenye mantiki. Napata sheria za kimaadili (Moral laws) kwa sababu nimeumbwa kwa mfanow wa Mungu aliye chanzo cha sheria hizo. Ninatumia sayansi kwa sababu Mungu ameweka uniformity na kufanya sayansi iwezekane.

Proofs zinaanza from scratch. Huwezi kuanza na jibu la x wakati unataka ku solve for x.

Na hata ukipata jibu, inabidi jibu liwe testable successfully. Hizi ni kanuni za knowledge system.

Tatizo unacho reprsesnt si part of any knowledge system, ni part ya belief system, kitu ambacho hakithibitishiki by definition.

Wewe unaelea tu. Huna pa kusimamia. Una argue kwa kutumia logic, lakini huna sababu kwa nini utumie logic.

Logic works. Hiyo computer unayotumia imetengenezwa kwa logic gates, ina electronic circuitry ndani yake inayotumia logic. Magari, majumba, madaraja yote yanajengwa kwa logic. Sasa kama hujui kwa nini natumia logic sababu ndiyo hiyo.

Hata wewe unatumia logic, utake usitake.

Ukisema uache kutumia logic huwezi kupost kitu JF.

Ukikataa hili wewe mbishi tu. Sasa unajua kwa nini natumia logic.Usi assume tu kwamba natumia logic bila kujua sababu. Kama hujui uliza utapewa majibu, lakini ukiwa una assume assume tu utaonekana hujui unachoongea na wala huna utashi wa kujua.

Unajaribu kumkosoa Mungu kuwa ana makosa ya kimaadili bila kutuambia unapataje maadili katika dini yako ya hakuna Mungu.

Anaye challenge kuwepo kwa mungu ana dini as much as mwenye upara alivyo na nywele.

Nimekuonesha jinsi watu wanavyoishi kwa a moral and ethical system bila kumuhitaji mungu.

Nimekupa quote ya Albert Einstein hapa.

Naona unaruka vile ambavyo huwezi kuvijibu na kushupaa tu shingo ngumu, kama hujajibiwa wakati maswali yashajibiwa.

Unaongea sana kuhusu sayansi lakini katika dini yako ya hakuna Mungu unapataje sayansi?

First thing first, huhitaji dini kuchallenge kuwepo kwa mungu. Second thing, huhitaji mungu kuwa na sayansi. Sayansi inafanywa kwa hupotheses na experiments na observation na peer review.Hakuna hata kimoja kinachohitaji mungu hapo.

Inabidi uibe kutoka kwa Mungu unayemkana... What a proof for God's existence!

Niibe nini? You are getting ahead of yourself. Huja prove kwamba mungu yupo ushasema namuibia?

Jibu the problem of evil kwanza.

No hii sio mechi wala sio majaribio. Ni kitu kiko halisi na kina madhara kukubali au kukataa.
Kwa hiyo sioni haja ya kuhangaika na majaribio yako. Ni aidha unakataa au unakubali. Na ukikataa, ishi consistent na dini yako ya hakuna Mungu. Hiyo ndiyo maanaya kuwa na utashi!

Soma uelewe immanent criticism hapo juu, tatizo mvivu wa kusoma na mwingi wa kuandika, of course utaandika pumba

Hii inafanya maswali yako yawe meaningless!

Unayasema meaningless kwa sababu huwezi kuyajibu?

Kwa sababu dini yake imeshindwa kutoa hata tafsiri ya uovu umeamua kuhamia kwa Mungu kwa muda?
No free lunch. Aidha unamkataa au unamkubali... nukta!

Hufahamu immanent criticism ni nini na wala huwezi kufanya simultaneous equation by

Wala hata sio la muhimu kama unavyodhani!

Sio muhimu kitu hujakielewa?

And that makes whole thing silly!

Only if you are an immobile fundamentalist

Lets see!

I am afraid you have blinded yourself with fundamentalism

Hitler aliua watu million 6+ kwake lilikuwa Jema. Stallin, Mao na wengineo wakaua mamilion. Wao waliona sawa ni mema. Je unakubaliana nao kuwa walifanya mema. Au unadhani mabaya?

Kabla ya kuniuliza mimi, je mungu aliyeumba vyote, mwenye nguvu zote na upendo wote alikubaliana naye? Kwa nini alimuachia? Kwa nini aliruhusu? Hujajibu hili swali.

Kwa wale wanaojisikia fahari kubaka watoto wadogo nao vipi wako sahihi? Wanafanya mema au mabaya?

Mungu anasemaje? Kama hawako sahihi mbona hazuii?

Unarudia maswali ayleyale sasa. Kwa nini mungu karuhusu hayo yatokee? Kashindwa kuyazuia? Utaniulizaje mimi nisiye na uwezo wote, ujuzi wote wala upendo wote na uache kumuuliza mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote?

Kama mungu wenu mwenye attributes zote hizo yupo, this very minute anaweza kuzuia kitendo kama hiki sehemu fulani duniani, ambayo mimi siijui na yeye anaijua.

Sasa kwa nini hazuii kama yupo?

Kipimo chako cha mema na mabaya ni nini? Nataka kujua mizani unayotumia!

Umeiona quote ya Einstein?

Fallacy! Sio kweli, hatujaona popote!

Show me the truth table, if you even know what that is.

Hamna kitu hapo! Huwezi kuwa na morality bila kuwa na Moral laws and laws never pop from nothing.

Who said they pop from nothing?

They demand Law giver.

Why must that lawgiver be god? We have laws of the land made by parliament, does god sit in the parliament to give us our laws of the land? We don't need god for that. Why should it be any different for the laws of morality?

Kiranga whay can't you get it...soo simple!

There is nothing to get, aside from fundamentalist dogma.

This explanation fits you well. Dini yako ya hakuna Mungu imekufanya udhani kuwa kweli hakuna na kuwa "yote yawezekana kwake aaminiye hakuna Mungu".

Your non-rebuttal rebuttal flatters me.The lack of originality shows how tired you are, your using my explanation of yourself to fling it back to me shows me that you can't even take the time to describe your view of me.Your using of my description - an imitation really- is the best type of flattery.

Hizo ni assertion za Einstein. Hajatuambia ni jinsi gani elimu inatupa Moral law wala jinsi social ties zinavyolete Moral law na hivyo ni empty assertion.

Hiyo ndiyo definition mojawapo ya elimu. Yesu alivyoyatoa majini na kuyapeleka kwenye nguruwe alikosa elimu ya compassion kwa wanyama. Watu walioelimika siku hizi wanakuwa humane sio tu kwa wanadamu wenzao, bali pia mpaka kwa wanyama. Yesu angefanya hiki kitu leo, watu wa "People for The Ethical Treatment of Animals" (PETA) wangemjia juu. The zeitgeist of his time was different. Hapo ndipo utajua kwamba morality haihitaji dini. Huyu mtu mnayemuita mungu alikuwa ana uwezo wa kuyaambia majini yaondoke bila kuwaingilia nguruwe, akayakubalia yaingilie nguruwe wa watu, nguruwe wakafa.

Huu ni mfano unaokuonesha ni jinsi gani dini inavyoweza kukosa morality halafu watu secular wakawa na morality.

PETA si kukundi cha dini, lakini kina morality code ya hali ya juu kuhusu the treatment of animals. Kupita dini zenu hizo.

Kwa hiyo usitake kutuambia kwamba morality ni monopoly ya dini.

Unakataa kuamini Mungu ambaye ameumba braini ya Einstein

Slow down, slow your role, don't put the cart before the horse.

Hujathibitisha kwamba mungu yupo usharukia kaumba ubongo wa Einstein?

lakini unashindwa hata kuhoji upumbavu wa Einstein.
Sijui kama unapata picha ni kiasi gani dini yako hii imekupiga upofu!

Great minds discuss ideas, simple minds discuss people. Mimi simuongelei Einstein the person, naongelea idea yake alivyosema kuhusu morality without god.

Stop clowning.

Hii ngano mbona haipo katika maneno uliyonukuu. Umeitoa wapi?

Apparently hata kusoma maneno yako mwenyewe huwezi.

Kwanza jua Mungu ninayemwongelea sio mdoli wala mtumwa.

Correct.

Sio hata mdoli wala mtumwa, kwa sababu hayupo. Hujaonesha kwamba yupo.Umeshindwa.

Ni Mungu mwenye mamlaka ya kuamua, Alipoamua kuumba kwa mfano wake hakuomba ushauri. Kwa hiyo Mungu hakuumba mungu mwingine bali mwanadamu aliyebeba mfano wake. Kama mwanadamu na yeye akiwa Mungu kuna limits. Na moja ya limits ndio hizo.
Huna namna. Kama ambavyo utakufa na hna cha kufanya na hilo ni vivyo hivyo

Kwa hiyo acheni upumbavu wa kusema mungu kaacha evil duniani ili tuwe na choice.

Kwa nini kuna evil sasa?

Kwa nini kaachia evil?

Straw man argument!

The god idea is the biggest straw man ever thought. Ni habari ya tisha toto kama mtu wa mabua anayewekwa shambani kulinda ndege wasile mpunga. Ndege mjanja akitokea na kujua kwamba huyu mtu wa mabua hafanyi lolote atafaidi sana.

Umetengeneza mungu bandia halafu umemdili sawasawa lol 🙂
Hayo yote Mungu wangu hajawahi kuyafanya! Get facts straight!

Mungu wako ni wa bandia to start with. Hawezi hata ku pass the test of "the problem of evil"

False premises, false conclusion!

Of course, false premise number one is that there is a god at all.

I was trying to show you how a false premise would produce a contradiction.

Of course this is a case of "false premise, false conclusion"

Unapata shida kwa kuwa hutaki kukubali ukweli kuwa "Hapo Mwanzo Mungu..."

Hapo mwanzo mungu nini?

Tatizo ni dini yako ya hakuna Mungu...vinginevyo ni swali rahisi tu. Mungu aliumba mtu kwa mfano wake akiwa na uwezo wa kuchagua.... kutii au kuasi. God of Love made men with choice.

God's perfect knowledge is incompatible with human free will. This is a contradiction.

Huwezi kuelewa hili usipotaka kutoka huko gizani uliko aisee!

Kukubali mungu asiyeonekana wala kuthibitishika si gizani? Kuuliza maswali ndiyo gizani? Hilarious

Utasema hakukupa chaguo kwa kuwa hakukuruhusu ukalie kiti cha Mamlaka yake ya Uungu... silly argument!

Sikuulizwa hata kama nataka kuzaliwa au sitaki. Utasemaje mungu huyo anapenda niwe na chaguo?

Hata kibinadamu tu, kabla ya kukubali kazi, ndoa, any serious thing unasaini na mashahidi.

Sasa kwa nini mungu katuleta duniani bila kutuuliza kama kweli anapenda tuwe na uchaguzi?

Maswali haya nimejibu kitambo ila unayaleta kwa staili tofauti essentially ni yaleyale!

Kuna tofauti kati ya kujibu maswali na kubabaisha. Wewe umebabaisha.

Mwanadamu anapata wapi uwezo wa kutumia vibaya utashi wake?

Kama mungu anaweza kila kitu, alishindwa kumpa mwanadamu utashi lakini kuzuia utashi usitumike vibaya?

Mungu alipokuwa anaumba ulimwengu, kwa nini aliachia mwanadamu awe na uwezo wa kutumia vibaya utashi wake?

Na lengo lako ni kuondoka katka hoja za msingi ambazo so far hujajibu hata moja.

Ni zipi hizo hoja za msingi ambazo hazijajibiwa? Wewe umejibu "the problem of evil"?

Kiranga huwezi kutetea kitu ambacho kinapingana na mantiki, sayansi na hata akili ya kawada tu!

Ni kweli, na kitu hicho ni mungu asiyeonekana wala kuthibitishika, ambaye ana uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote, lakini anaruhusu watoto wazaliwe na vilema wateseke maisha yote, matetemeko ya ardhi, ma tsunami etc.

Ushaona watu wanavyokufa kama kuku kwenye natural disasters?

Kwa nini mungu mwenye uwezo wote, upendo wote na ujuzi wote aachie hayo yatokee?

Kama mwanadamu ana uwezo wa kuzuia na hazuii si atapelekwa ICC mara moja kushtakiwa kama mas murderer? Sasa kwa nini mnasema yupo mungu mwenye uwezo wa kuzuia haya na hazuii? Wakati anadaiwa anawapenda viumbe wake?

Utaishia kufanya vituko unavyofanya hapa!

Vituko unafanya wewe unayekataa kujibu maswali logically na kujitoa akili.

Mwanadamu alifikaje hapa alipo? Ulimwengu ulifikaje hapa ulipo?
Unaamini evolution ni ukweli au uongo?

hata kama sijui majibu ya maswali haya, hilo halimaanishi kwamba jibu ni mungu.

Hata kama sijui square root ya mbili ni nini, hilo halimaanishi ni nane. Ukiniambia ni nane kama naona hai make sense, hata kama sijui jibu kamili, naweza kujua jibu lako si sahihi.

For starters square root ya mbili ni ndogo kuliko mbili, jibu lako la nane haliendani na ukweli huu.Linashindwa mathematical logic and test.

Zaidi ya taralila za Einstein na visasili vya "secular ethics" hujaleta chochote cha maana.

Sijaleta cha maana wakati nimekupa masali ambayo umeshindwa kuyajibu?

Nimeuliza swali kwako usiyeamini Mungu. Huwezi kujibu ukiwa na imani ya dini yako ya hakuna Mungu.

Kuuliza swali na kutaka ushahidi hakuhitaji imani, wewe unayesema mungu yupo ndiye unayehitaji imani.

Ili ujaribu hata kujibu lazima ukubali uwepo wa Mungu kwanza.

Quirky logic.

Mtu anaweza kusema kwamba kuna pembetatu duara in Euclidean planes. Nikamjibu kwamba haipo, na kama ipo aichore tuione.

Nimemjibu ku dispute uwepo wa pembetatu duara bila kukubali kwamba pembetatu duara ipo.

Your logic is flawed, your head is twisted, you can't think straight or reason. For some weird reason, you are positing that to dispute something you must believe in it.This is a forceful illogical non-argument that fails to even become a "deus ex machina".

It is so off base it is not even wrong. It is worse than wrong!

How does evil exists in religion of no morality like atheism?

Atheism is the lack of religion, then it cannot be a religion.

Its silly to even say the word!

Silly is excusable compared to te grotesque concoctions and ignoble impossibilities you are posing here.

Kifupi hujajibu hoja hata moja katika zote ambazo nimezileta.

Kifupi umeleta viroja, hujaleta hoja. Wewe ndiye hujajibu "the problem of evil"

na hii kama nilivyosema mwanzo ni kwa sababu tamko la imani la dini yenu ya hakuna Mungu haliwaruhusu na mnakuwa force kujibu bila mantinki.

Mimi sina dini, mimi ni searcher. Mtu anayeuliza maswali na kutaka majibu hahitaji imani. Mimi nataka kujua, sitaki imani. Wewe unayesema kuna mungu bila ushahidi ndiye unatumia imani, jambo ambalo sina tatizo nalo, unaweza hata kuamini jiwe au ng'ombe ni mungu wako.

As long as unatambua hiyo ni imani tu, na si ujuzi.

Ukisema ni ujuzi tu, inabidi kuweka uthibitisho.

Kiukweli sijawahi kuona mkana Mungu yeyote akiishi sawia na dini yakehiyo.

Wewe ni samaki unayeogelea katika bahari ya dini, kwa hiyo huwezi kuelewa kwamba kuna dunia isiyo na maji ya dini. Dini ndiyo reference yako ya kila kitu. Hujui kuna watu wako sehemu nyingine ya dunia ambako hakuna maji/ dini.

Wote ninaowafahamu wanaishi na Christian Morals za Mungu wanaye profess kumkataa! Strange!

Christian morals za mungu ndizo zipi hizo?

Za kuachia watoto wafe wakiwa wachanga?

Za kuachia watoto kuzaliwa na vilema?

Za kuachia watu wafe katika amtetemeko ya ardhi, ma tsunami etc? Ndiyo morals za mungu wako hizo?

Mbona zinashindwa na morals za binadamu tu?

Bill Gates hana upendo usio na mwisho, ujuzi usio na mwisho wala uwezo usio na mwisho, lakini anasaidia watoto wa nchi masikini kupata chanjo.

Mungu ana uwezo usio na mwisho, uwezo usio na mwisho na upendo usio na mwisho (ndivyo mnavyosema), akiamua tu anaweza kuwawekea chanjo automatically watoto wote wanaozaliwa.

Mbona hafanyi hivyo?

Inamaana ni mkatili hataki tu?

Au anataka lakini hana uwezo?

 

[Ntuzu]

Tunaongea fact! Kama akili yako iko vizuri hebu niambie kama kuna mtu mmoja wa enzi za yesu anayeweza kusogeza kipanya cha pc akitokea duniani leo hii! Nadhani tatizo lako umejikita kusoma kwenye kitabu kimoja, enzi za yesu kulikuwa na wengi wenye kutenda miujiza kama yeye, hata leo hii kuna watu wenye kutembea juu ya maji, unasemaje kuhusu hilo?
Jadili kwa upole acha jazba na matusi, WEWE NI MTU WA "MUNGU"!!

Mtu atembee juu ya Maji Kwani yeye ndio alieumba Dunia na vitu vyote vilivyomo?
Acheni uongo wa Imani yenu! Kama unazungumzia mazingaombwe sawa!

 

[Kyenju]

Tunaongea fact! Kama akili yako iko vizuri hebu niambie kama kuna mtu mmoja wa enzi za yesu anayeweza kusogeza kipanya cha pc akitokea duniani leo hii! Nadhani tatizo lako umejikita kusoma kwenye kitabu kimoja, enzi za yesu kulikuwa na wengi wenye kutenda miujiza kama yeye, hata leo hii kuna watu wenye kutembea juu ya maji, unasemaje kuhusu hilo?
Jadili kwa upole acha jazba na matusi, WEWE NI MTU WA "MUNGU"!!

Mkuu unangelea PC! Enzi hizo za Yesu, akiwa bado mdogo alianza kuwafundisha maprofessor wa kipindi hicho mpaka wakaanza kushangaa na kuulizana, huyu mtoto ameyajua wapi haya hali hajasoma? Sembuse haya ya computer?

 

[H1N1]

Hahaha, unaogopa kusoma link? Unataka kujua kweli wewe?

Here goes

According to David Harvey, Distinguished Professor of Anthropology at the City University of New York (CUNY),
"Critical theory at its most abstract and general level ... begins as a formal 'negativity.' As a dissenting motif, it selects some tradition, ideological premise, or institutionalized orthodoxy for analysis. As immanent critique, it then 'enters its object,' so to speak, 'boring from within.' Provisionally accepting the methodological presuppositions, substantive premises, and truth-claims of orthodoxy as its own, immanent critique tests the postulates of orthodoxy by the latter's own standards of proof and accuracy. Upon 'entering' the theory, orthodoxy's premises and assertions are registered and certain strategic contradictions located. These contradictions are then developed according to their own logic, and at some point in this process of internal expansion, the one-sided proclamations of orthodoxy collapse as material instances and their contradictions are allowed to develop 'naturally.'"[SUP][3][/SUP]


Proofs zinaanza from scratch. Huwezi kuanza na jibu la x wakati unataka ku solve for x.

Na hata ukipata jibu, inabidi jibu liwe testable successfully. Hizi ni kanuni za knowledge system.

Tatizo unacho reprsesnt si part of any knowledge system, ni part ya belief system, kitu ambacho hakithibitishiki by definition.



Logic works. Hiyo computer unayotumia imetengenezwa kwa logic gates, ina electronic circuitry ndani yake inayotumia logic. Magari, majumba, madaraja yote yanajengwa kwa logic. Sasa kama hujui kwa nini natumia logic sababu ndiyo hiyo.

Hata wewe unatumia logic, utake usitake.

Ukisema uache kutumia logic huwezi kupost kitu JF.

Ukikataa hili wewe mbishi tu. Sasa unajua kwa nini natumia logic.Usi assume tu kwamba natumia logic bila kujua sababu. Kama hujui uliza utapewa majibu, lakini ukiwa una assume assume tu utaonekana hujui unachoongea na wala huna utashi wa kujua.



Anaye challenge kuwepo kwa mungu ana dini as much as mwenye upara alivyo na nywele.

Nimekuonesha jinsi watu wanavyoishi kwa a moral and ethical system bila kumuhitaji mungu.

Nimekupa quote ya Albert Einstein hapa.

Naona unaruka vile ambavyo huwezi kuvijibu na kushupaa tu shingo ngumu, kama hujajibiwa wakati maswali yashajibiwa.



First thing first, huhitaji dini kuchallenge kuwepo kwa mungu. Second thing, huhitaji mungu kuwa na sayansi. Sayansi inafanywa kwa hupotheses na experiments na observation na peer review.Hakuna hata kimoja kinachohitaji mungu hapo.



Niibe nini? You are getting ahead of yourself. Huja prove kwamba mungu yupo ushasema namuibia?

Jibu the problem of evil kwanza.




Soma uelewe immanent criticism hapo juu, tatizo mvivu wa kusoma na mwingi wa kuandika, of course utaandika pumba



Unayasema meaningless kwa sababu huwezi kuyajibu?




Hufahamu immanent criticism ni nini na wala huwezi kufanya simultaneous equation by





Sio muhimu kitu hujakielewa?




Only if you are an immobile fundamentalist




I am afraid you have blinded yourself with fundamentalism




Kabla ya kuniuliza mimi, je mungu aliyeumba vyote, mwenye nguvu zote na upendo wote alikubaliana naye? Kwa nini alimuachia? Kwa nini aliruhusu? Hujajibu hili swali.




Mungu anasemaje? Kama hawako sahihi mbona hazuii?

Unarudia maswali ayleyale sasa. Kwa nini mungu karuhusu hayo yatokee? Kashindwa kuyazuia? Utaniulizaje mimi nisiye na uwezo wote, ujuzi wote wala upendo wote na uache kumuuliza mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote?

Kama mungu wenu mwenye attributes zote hizo yupo, this very minute anaweza kuzuia kitendo kama hiki sehemu fulani duniani, ambayo mimi siijui na yeye anaijua.

Sasa kwa nini hazuii kama yupo?



Umeiona quote ya Einstein?




Show me the truth table, if you even know what that is.



Who said they pop from nothing?



Why must that lawgiver be god? We have laws of the land made by parliament, does god sit in the parliament to give us our laws of the land? We don't need god for that. Why should it be any different for the laws of morality?



There is nothing to get, aside from fundamentalist dogma.




Your non-rebuttal rebuttal flatters me.The lack of originality shows how tired you are, your using my explanation of yourself to fling it back to me shows me that you can't even take the time to describe your view of me.Your using of my description - an imitation really- is the best type of flattery.



Hiyo ndiyo definition mojawapo ya elimu. Yesu alivyoyatoa majini na kuyapeleka kwenye nguruwe alikosa elimu ya compassion kwa wanyama. Watu walioelimika siku hizi wanakuwa humane sio tu kwa wanadamu wenzao, bali pia mpaka kwa wanyama. Yesu angefanya hiki kitu leo, watu wa "People for The Ethical Treatment of Animals" (PETA) wangemjia juu. The zeitgeist of his time was different. Hapo ndipo utajua kwamba morality haihitaji dini. Huyu mtu mnayemuita mungu alikuwa ana uwezo wa kuyaambia majini yaondoke bila kuwaingilia nguruwe, akayakubalia yaingilie nguruwe wa watu, nguruwe wakafa.

Huu ni mfano unaokuonesha ni jinsi gani dini inavyoweza kukosa morality halafu watu secular wakawa na morality.

PETA si kukundi cha dini, lakini kina morality code ya hali ya juu kuhusu the treatment of animals. Kupita dini zenu hizo.

Kwa hiyo usitake kutuambia kwamba morality ni monopoly ya dini.



Slow down, slow your role, don't put the cart before the horse.

Hujathibitisha kwamba mungu yupo usharukia kaumba ubongo wa Einstein?



Great minds discuss ideas, simple minds discuss people. Mimi simuongelei Einstein the person, naongelea idea yake alivyosema kuhusu morality without god.

Stop clowning.



Apparently hata kusoma maneno yako mwenyewe huwezi.




Correct.

Sio hata mdoli wala mtumwa, kwa sababu hayupo. Hujaonesha kwamba yupo.Umeshindwa.




Kwa hiyo acheni upumbavu wa kusema mungu kaacha evil duniani ili tuwe na choice.

Kwa nini kuna evil sasa?

Kwa nini kaachia evil?



The god idea is the biggest straw man ever thought. Ni habari ya tisha toto kama mtu wa mabua anayewekwa shambani kulinda ndege wasile mpunga. Ndege mjanja akitokea na kujua kwamba huyu mtu wa mabua hafanyi lolote atafaidi sana.




Mungu wako ni wa bandia to start with. Hawezi hata ku pass the test of "the problem of evil"





Of course, false premise number one is that there is a god at all.

I was trying to show you how a false premise would produce a contradiction.

Of course this is a case of "false premise, false conclusion"



Hapo mwanzo mungu nini?



God's perfect knowledge is incompatible with human free will. This is a contradiction.



Kukubali mungu asiyeonekana wala kuthibitishika si gizani? Kuuliza maswali ndiyo gizani? Hilarious




Sikuulizwa hata kama nataka kuzaliwa au sitaki. Utasemaje mungu huyo anapenda niwe na chaguo?

Hata kibinadamu tu, kabla ya kukubali kazi, ndoa, any serious thing unasaini na mashahidi.

Sasa kwa nini mungu katuleta duniani bila kutuuliza kama kweli anapenda tuwe na uchaguzi?




Kuna tofauti kati ya kujibu maswali na kubabaisha. Wewe umebabaisha.

Mwanadamu anapata wapi uwezo wa kutumia vibaya utashi wake?

Kama mungu anaweza kila kitu, alishindwa kumpa mwanadamu utashi lakini kuzuia utashi usitumike vibaya?

Mungu alipokuwa anaumba ulimwengu, kwa nini aliachia mwanadamu awe na uwezo wa kutumia vibaya utashi wake?



Ni zipi hizo hoja za msingi ambazo hazijajibiwa? Wewe umejibu "the problem of evil"?




Ni kweli, na kitu hicho ni mungu asiyeonekana wala kuthibitishika, ambaye ana uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote, lakini anaruhusu watoto wazaliwe na vilema wateseke maisha yote, matetemeko ya ardhi, ma tsunami etc.

Ushaona watu wanavyokufa kama kuku kwenye natural disasters?

Kwa nini mungu mwenye uwezo wote, upendo wote na ujuzi wote aachie hayo yatokee?

Kama mwanadamu ana uwezo wa kuzuia na hazuii si atapelekwa ICC mara moja kushtakiwa kama mas murderer? Sasa kwa nini mnasema yupo mungu mwenye uwezo wa kuzuia haya na hazuii? Wakati anadaiwa anawapenda viumbe wake?



Vituko unafanya wewe unayekataa kujibu maswali logically na kujitoa akili.



hata kama sijui majibu ya maswali haya, hilo halimaanishi kwamba jibu ni mungu.

Hata kama sijui square root ya mbili ni nini, hilo halimaanishi ni nane. Ukiniambia ni nane kama naona hai make sense, hata kama sijui jibu kamili, naweza kujua jibu lako si sahihi.

For starters square root ya mbili ni ndogo kuliko mbili, jibu lako la nane haliendani na ukweli huu.Linashindwa mathematical logic and test.




Sijaleta cha maana wakati nimekupa masali ambayo umeshindwa kuyajibu?




Kuuliza swali na kutaka ushahidi hakuhitaji imani, wewe unayesema mungu yupo ndiye unayehitaji imani.




Quirky logic.

Mtu anaweza kusema kwamba kuna pembetatu duara in Euclidean planes. Nikamjibu kwamba haipo, na kama ipo aichore tuione.

Nimemjibu ku dispute uwepo wa pembetatu duara bila kukubali kwamba pembetatu duara ipo.

Your logic is flawed, your head is twisted, you can't think straight or reason. For some weird reason, you are positing that to dispute something you must believe in it.This is a forceful illogical non-argument that fails to even become a "deus ex machina".

It is so off base it is not even wrong. It is worse than wrong!





Atheism is the lack of religion, then it cannot be a religion.



Silly is excusable compared to te grotesque concoctions and ignoble impossibilities you are posing here.



Kifupi umeleta viroja, hujaleta hoja. Wewe ndiye hujajibu "the problem of evil"



Mimi sina dini, mimi ni searcher. Mtu anayeuliza maswali na kutaka majibu hahitaji imani. Mimi nataka kujua, sitaki imani. Wewe unayesema kuna mungu bila ushahidi ndiye unatumia imani, jambo ambalo sina tatizo nalo, unaweza hata kuamini jiwe au ng'ombe ni mungu wako.

As long as unatambua hiyo ni imani tu, na si ujuzi.

Ukisema ni ujuzi tu, inabidi kuweka uthibitisho.



Wewe ni samaki unayeogelea katika bahari ya dini, kwa hiyo huwezi kuelewa kwamba kuna dunia isiyo na maji ya dini. Dini ndiyo reference yako ya kila kitu. Hujui kuna watu wako sehemu nyingine ya dunia ambako hakuna maji/ dini.



Christian morals za mungu ndizo zipi hizo?

Za kuachia watoto wafe wakiwa wachanga?

Za kuachia watoto kuzaliwa na vilema?

Za kuachia watu wafe katika amtetemeko ya ardhi, ma tsunami etc? Ndiyo morals za mungu wako hizo?

Mbona zinashindwa na morals za binadamu tu?

Bill Gates hana upendo usio na mwisho, ujuzi usio na mwisho wala uwezo usio na mwisho, lakini anasaidia watoto wa nchi masikini kupata chanjo.

Mungu ana uwezo usio na mwisho, uwezo usio na mwisho na upendo usio na mwisho (ndivyo mnavyosema), akiamua tu anaweza kuwawekea chanjo automatically watoto wote wanaozaliwa.

Mbona hafanyi hivyo?

Inamaana ni mkatili hataki tu?

Au anataka lakini hana uwezo?

Mzee wa Kukariri naona wamwaga POVU baada ya kuambiwa ''hakuna Mungu'' ni Imani sawa na ''Kuna Mungu'' sio ujuzi wala knowledge, nayo ni imani yenu...

 

[kadoda11]

haya amsheni amsheni sasa...*^O^*♧♧♚♡♡♡

 

[Ntuzu]

Mkuu unangelea PC! Enzi hizo za Yesu, akiwa bado mdogo alianza kuwafundisha maprofessor wa kipindi hicho mpaka wakaanza kushangaa na kuulizana, huyu mtoto ameyajua wapi haya hali hajasoma? Sembuse haya ya computer?

Wao wanaona hizo Akili za kutengeneza Computer ni zao wenyewe na kuna mmoja wao humu kaulizwa Kama ana Akili akakosa majibu!
Unamlinganisha Yesu na kutumia kipanya! Huo Si wendawazimu!

 

[CYBERTEQ]

Wao wanaona hizo Akili za kutengeneza Computer ni zao wenyewe na kuna mmoja wao humu kaulizwa Kama ana Akili akakosa majibu!
Unamlinganisha Yesu na kutumia kipanya! Huo Si wendawazimu!

Hahahaa, utasema hata hiyo saa uliyovaa ni akili za yesu, imani bana INAPOFUA!

 

[CYBERTEQ]

Mkuu unangelea PC! Enzi hizo za Yesu, akiwa bado mdogo alianza kuwafundisha maprofessor wa kipindi hicho mpaka wakaanza kushangaa na kuulizana, huyu mtoto ameyajua wapi haya hali hajasoma? Sembuse haya ya computer?

Ma-professor gani na aliwafundisha nini? kumbuka alishindwa kutengeneza stuli tu!!!

 

[Nkwesa Makambo]

Wao wanaona hizo Akili za kutengeneza Computer ni zao wenyewe na kuna mmoja wao humu kaulizwa Kama ana Akili akakosa majibu!
Unamlinganisha Yesu na kutumia kipanya! Huo Si wendawazimu!

Nimefurahi sana kuhusu hilo Swali kuhusu akili na kwangu naona limethibitisha kwamba hawa jamaa wana kariri hawana uwezo wa kutafakari, katika mazingira yasiyo ya mjadala ukiwauliza kama wana akili watakujibu kwa mbwewe kwamba wanazo,sababu wanajua hutahitajki ushahidi sana sana unaweza kuwa simulteneous equestion waka solve utathibitisha akili zao, lakini kwwenye mjadala huu hawako tayari kutoa jibu, kwa kuwa madai yao juu ya ushahidi wa kuwepo Mungu yatayeyusha na aina ya Ushahidi watautoa kuthibitisha kwamba wanazo akili, ama wakisema hawana akili, watakuwa wamethibitisha kwamba hicho ndicho chanzo cha kutotambua uwepo wa MUngu. Bravo H1N1,eyer, Jingalafalsafa et al...

 

[Eiyer]

cc: Eiyer

Nini?????????????????

 

[Eiyer]

Huu ni mfano unaokuonesha ni jinsi gani dini inavyoweza kukosa morality halafu watu secular wakawa na morality.
PETA si kukundi cha dini, lakini kina morality code ya hali ya juu kuhusu the treatment of animals. Kupita dini zenu hizo.
Kwa hiyo usitake kutuambia kwamba morality ni monopoly ya dini.

Hii ni sehemu ya majibu yako ya ajabu kuliko ajabu yenyewe
Sita deal na mengine lakini nitakupa tu angalau mwanga hapa kidogo naona unazidi kuzama kichakani

Hivi wewe unajumlishaje dini na Mungu?

Wewe watu wa dini wakikosa maadili anakuwa Mungu kakosa maadili
Unashindwa tu hata kufikiri kuwa kuna uwezekano hawa watu hawafuati hayo mafundisho ya dini

Umeendelea sana kutaja Moral bila hata kutueleza Moral ni kitu gani
Pia hujatuambia ni kwa kipimo gani umetambua kuwa hii ni Moral na hii siyo
Pia hujatuambia ni kwanini tuna Moral
Na tumeitoa wapi

Tafakari hii ingekufanya uyaone majibu yaliyoko kwenye majibu ya mtoa mada kwako
Lakini kwakuwa hata tafakari huna umekua ukizunguka tu bila kueleweka!

Unataka kujua tatizo la ubaya wakati hata hujasema huo ni ubaya kwa mujibu wa nini
Swali zuri sana amekuuliza kuwa unatumia kipimo gani kuyajua hayo lakini hujajisumbua hata kutafakari hilo zaidi umemwaga copy hapa utadhani hata zina majibu

Hujasema ni kwanini kondoo wana miguu minne halafu binadamu akizaliwa na mikono miwili na miguu mitatu uone kuwa Mungu ameshindwa bila kutuambia umelipima vipi hilo na kwa kipimo gani na umekitoa wapi hicho kipimo

Hebu jaribu kutafakari kidogo tu!

 

[Walas Ba]

Hii ni sehemu ya majibu yako ya ajabu kuliko ajabu yenyewe
Sita deal na mengine lakini nitakupa tu angalau mwanga hapa kidogo naona unazidi kuzama kichakani

Hivi wewe unajumlishaje dini na Mungu?

Wewe watu wa dini wakikosa maadili anakuwa Mungu kakosa maadili
Unashindwa tu hata kufikiri kuwa kuna uwezekano hawa watu hawafuati hayo mafundisho ya dini

Umeendelea sana kutaja Moral bila hata kutueleza Moral ni kitu gani
Pia hujatuambia ni kwa kipimo gani umetambua kuwa hii ni Moral na hii siyo
Pia hujatuambia ni kwanini tuna Moral
Na tumeitoa wapi

Tafakari hii ingekufanya uyaone majibu yaliyoko kwenye majibu ya mtoa mada kwako
Lakini kwakuwa hata tafakari huna umekua ukizunguka tu bila kueleweka!

Unataka kujua tatizo la ubaya wakati hata hujasema huo ni ubaya kwa mujibu wa nini
Swali zuri sana amekuuliza kuwa unatumia kipimo gani kuyajua hayo lakini hujajisumbua hata kutafakari hilo zaidi umemwaga copy hapa utadhani hata zina majibu

Hujasema ni kwanini kondoo wana miguu minne halafu binadamu akizaliwa na mikono miwili na miguu mitatu uone kuwa Mungu ameshindwa bila kutuambia umelipima vipi hilo na kwa kipimo gani na umekitoa wapi hicho kipimo

Hebu jaribu kutafakari kidogo tu!

mkuu natambua
uwepo wako hapa ndani naomba umuite huyu zzuuz aje aseme anachobisha kati ya dini au uwepo wa Mungu†! .Mwambie dini ni mpango wa mwanadamu kutaka kutiii maagizo ya Mungu† kwa . kuanzisha utaratibu kujifunza na kumuabudu yeye†. Pia mwambie hata sie hatujaelewa msing wa yeye kusema Mungu† hayupo. Pamoja na yeye kuja na propaganda nyingi hajaweka ushahidi wa kutuonesha sehemu sahihi sie kuiamini na kuiabudu kama yetu ni wrong!!!! Show me the right way Kiranga kama hapa nimepotea!!!!

★Ni mjinga pekee anayebishia jambo ambalo anaamini halipo★

 

[Kiranga]

mkuu natambua
uwepo wako hapa ndani naomba umuite huyu zzuuz aje aseme anachobisha kati ya dini au uwepo wa Mungu†! .Mwambie dini ni mpango wa mwanadamu kutaka kutiii maagizo ya Mungu† kwa . kuanzisha utaratibu kujifunza na kumuabudu yeye†. Pia mwambie hata sie hatujaelewa msing wa yeye kusema Mungu† hayupo. Pamoja na yeye kuja na propaganda nyingi hajaweka ushahidi wa kutuonesha sehemu sahihi sie kuiamini na kuiabudu kama yetu ni wrong!!!! Show me the right way Kiranga kama hapa nimepotea!!!!

★Ni mjinga pekee anayebishia jambo ambalo anaamini halipo★

Kama mungu ni muumba vyote, mjuzi wa vyote, ana upendo wote, kwa nini kaumba ulimwengu ambao ubaya, mateso, magonjwa na maovu yanawezekana?

Kwa nini kaumba ulimwengu ambao watoto wanaweza kuzaliwa na vilema vya maisha?

Je anaweza kusema kwamba alikuwa ana uwezo wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao hilo haliwezekani halafu hakuchagua kufanya hivyo?

Kama ni kweli hivyo, je huyu ni mungu mwenye upendo?

Sijapewa jibu la swali hili zaidi ya mauzauza na "deus ex machina".

 

[Ntuzu]

Hahahaa, utasema hata hiyo saa uliyovaa ni akili za yesu, imani bana INAPOFUA!

Sawa na Upofu wa Imani yenu! Kutengeneza saa ndio mjiaminishe kua hakuna Mungu!

 

[CYBERTEQ]

Sawa na Upofu wa Imani yenu! Kutengeneza saa ndio mjiaminishe kua hakuna Mungu!

Kwa hakika maarifa ya mwanadamu ni makubwa kuliko ya "Mungu", leo ukiambiwa uishi kwa kumtegemea mungu pekee ni kitu kischowezekana, lakini leo wewe unapost hapa jf kwa sababu watu wanaokuzunguka wako makini, kuanzia mkeo anayekupikia, dereva anayekupeleka kazini, na daktari anayekutibu ukiugua!

 

[Ntuzu]

Kama mungu ni muumba vyote, mjuzi wa vyote, ana upendo wote, kwa nini kaumba ulimwengu ambao ubaya, mateso, magonjwa na maovu yanawezekana?

Kwa nini kaumba ulimwengu ambao watoto wanaweza kuzaliwa na vilema vya maisha?

Je anaweza kusema kwamba alikuwa ana uwezo wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao hilo haliwezekani halafu hakuchagua kufanya hivyo?

Kama ni kweli hivyo, je huyu ni mungu mwenye upendo?

Sijapewa jibu la swali hili zaidi ya mauzauza na "deus ex machina".

Majibu gani unayota kupewa?
Umeshanibiwa sana kwenye mada yako Na Pia kwenye hoja ya msingi ya mada hii Kama umesoma vizuri kuna majibu yote ya maswali yako!

Jibu la maswali yako ni kwamba wewe unatetea Imani yako tu na hautaki kwenda kinyume na Na msingi wa Imani yenu kwa Hakuna Mungu!

 

[CYBERTEQ]

Nimefurahi sana kuhusu hilo Swali kuhusu akili na kwangu naona limethibitisha kwamba hawa jamaa wana kariri hawana uwezo wa kutafakari, katika mazingira yasiyo ya mjadala ukiwauliza kama wana akili watakujibu kwa mbwewe kwamba wanazo,sababu wanajua hutahitajki ushahidi sana sana unaweza kuwa simulteneous equestion waka solve utathibitisha akili zao, lakini kwwenye mjadala huu hawako tayari kutoa jibu, kwa kuwa madai yao juu ya ushahidi wa kuwepo Mungu yatayeyusha na aina ya Ushahidi watautoa kuthibitisha kwamba wanazo akili, ama wakisema hawana akili, watakuwa wamethibitisha kwamba hicho ndicho chanzo cha kutotambua uwepo wa MUngu. Bravo H1N1,eyer, Jingalafalsafa et al...

Hilo swali mbona ameshaliuliza na akapewa majibu kwenye ile thread nyingine, wewe nadhani umedandia tu, kachungulie kule usome kwanza ndiyo uje huku, wenzio wamekimbia uzi kule walivyoona reasoning kwao imeshindikana!

 

[Ntuzu]

Kwa hakika maarifa ya mwanadamu ni makubwa kuliko ya "Mungu", leo ukiambiwa uishi kwa kumtegemea mungu pekee ni kitu kischowezekana, lakini leo wewe unapost hapa jf kwa sababu watu wanaokuzunguka wako makini, kuanzia mkeo anayekupikia, dereva anayekupeleka kazini, na daktari anayekutibu ukiugua!

Unachekesha kweli wewe!
Eti mwanadamu awe na maarifa Zaidi ya Mungu!
Eti unatoa na mifano Kama hiyo?!