Ni kweli majeshi ya NATO yako Ukraine na Silaha za NATO zinatumika Ukraine?

[T14 Armata]

NATO hawezi kupeleka vifaa vyote vya kisasa Ukraine kwa sababu nyingi tu, ikiwemo usalama wa vifaa vyake si wakuaminika (Kama vikiangukia mikononi mwa adui).

Sababu nyingi sana ninazoona mojawapo ni hizi.
1. Russia hana inventory kubwa ya vifaa vya kisasa, kama hivyo vifaru mfano Russia kabla ya vita alidai anavyo T-72 kama 7000 ila vita imeanza mwaka haujaisha ashaanza kuleta T-64. Kumbe hizo T-72 nyingi ni junks, maofisa wa Urusi wezi sana silaha za Urusi kuzipata kwenye black market ni rahisi ndio maana nchi kama Poland zipo NATO ila zina silaha za Urusi na bado hizo silaha zinapata spare parts na service zinafanyiwa wakati Poland haina defense industry ya kutosheleza servicing ya hizo silaha na wala hakuna official Govt to Govt contract. Hivyo vifaru kukuta havina injini au gearbox haina baadhi ya components kawaida sana.
Hakuna ulazima wa kutoa best weapons zikapigane na za kawaida, muda wa best weapons za NATO sio huu.

2. NATO kisheria inataka wanachama watumie angalau 2% of GDP kwenye defence lakini ni nchi chache, sidhani kama zinafika hata tano zinazotimiza. Notably ni Germany, inatumia hela ndogo sana kwenye defense hasa kabla ya hii vita. Wakati huo nchi kubwa zote zina shortage ya wanajeshi na NCOs, unakuta nchi kubwa kiuchumi inalazimika kutengeneza silaha bora ili zifidie uchache wa wanajeshi (na Sweden inafanya hivi ingawa haipo NATO), wanachama wa uchumi mdogo ndio wanaweza kuwa na wanajeshi wengi ila silaha kulingana na NATO standards hawana nyingi.
Hivyo nchi kama Germany, France, Italy na UK wana silaha bora chache (zenye gharama zaidi) kama hivyo vifaru na jets hawawezi vitoa maana hawatabaki na ulinzi.
Ni sawa na Russia ambavyo hawezi weka jeshi lote dhidi ya Ukraine ana mipaka mikubwa sana itabaki bila ulinzi.

3. Russia pale Ukraine haipigani kufa na kupona, nchi ikianzisha fujo yenyewe wanajeshi wake mara nyingi hupigana ilimradi. Ukraine ndio ina cha kupoteza inapigana vikali. Bado sio interest za Westerns kuipiga Russia haraka, wanaipiga taratibu ipungue kiuchumi na kiushawishi lakini isipate sababu za kupigana total war. Hivyo silaha zinakuja kwa mlolongo mrefu na hii inainufaisha NATO na kuichelewesha Ukraine. NATO iliunda silaha kupigana na Russia sasa iko inapigana ikiwa kwenye masofa.

4. Kwenye mikataba ya silaha makampuni huwa na production schedule. Ukiagiza Leopard 2 labda 80 leo kutoka Rheinmetall utaanza kupokea I think kuanzia 2025 napo utapata batch kama 3 za delivery kwa miaka kama mitatu, maana kampuni ina order za Ujerumani na wateja wa kimataifa ziko kwenye ratiba haiwezi zivuka. Thats why haiwezi toa silaha mpya ziende kwa Ukraine hata kama Ujerumani ingeruhusu. Ndio maana Poland kwenye tender yake ya MBT mwaka jana baada ya kuona Russia wanawehuka aliikataa Leopard 2 mojawapo ya sababu ni kuchelewa kwa derivery badala yake akachukua K2 Black Panther ya South Korea ambayo kutokana na Hyundai kutokuwa na international orders yuko free kuanza production ya Poland. K2 ni ndugu na Leo 2 maana Ujerumani iliisaidia South Korea na wakati huo South Korea inaisaidia Turkey kutengeneza Altays MBT.

5. NATO ina inventory kubwa ya Cold war haijatumia, na silaha kuwa ya zamani haimaanishi haitakiwi sasa. Military grade production inakuwa kwenye viwango kwamba hata miaka ijayo silaha itakuwa na maana, that's why weapons are expensive. Zuni rockets za Marekani ni za tangu late 1950s wamepewa Ukraine na sioni ni rockets gani za Urusi zinazidi hizi. Ukraine inaomba F-16 blocks ambazo US hatumii na ndege zina 30+ yrs, Abrams za 30+ yes ambazo Ukraine anataka zinapigwa vumbi Marekani haina mpango nazo tatizo zina depleted uranium armour na Marekani ni mgumu wa kutoa DU nje.
Hivyo silaha zinatumika kwenye lengo lile lile ila kwa kuchelewa timeline, hizi silaha mpya ni kwa ajili ya jeshi au invasion serious.

Sababu zipo nyingi

After this war kama Russia itashindwa (kiuchumi or kisiasa, kijeshi sidhani) ndio utakuwa muda wa kuuza shares za defence contractors wa Ulaya, walikuwa wahuni wanasingizia Russia ina jeshi kubwa na silaha za maana ili wazitishe nchi ziendelee kutoa hela ya R&D na procurement. Itabaki Marekani na kitisho cha China.

 

[T14 Armata]

Hata Urusi ina T14 Armata kama inventory yao mpya ya vifaru......ila haijaonekana 'in action' kikamilifu huko Ukraine.

T-14 Armata ikikamilika kabla ya 2025 nitajiita mjinga. Hawana uwezo huo tangu 2015 wanatuonyesha kwenye parade kasoro mwaka huu. Kwanza inaweza ikawa cancelled kwani silaha ngapi zinapigwa chini na zinafufuka miaka mingi baadae.

 

[Mathanzua]

Trump ni pro Russia. Naye ni mrusi

Huyu ndiye Rais wako,pole.

Rais Biden wa USA Aanguka Jukwaani

Leo Rais Biden wa USA ameanguka jukwaani wakati akisalimiana na Wahitimu wa chuo cha kijeshi cha Anga huko Colorado, chanzo cha kuanguka hakijulikani kama amejikwaa au ni umri mkubwa kiasi kwamba anapoteza balance. Mara baada ya kuanguka maafisa wa usalama wamemsaidia kuinuka fasta na kumpeleka...

www.jamiiforums.com

 

[and 100 others]

Mleta mada na wewe ni mweupe nato haimiliki silaha zaidi nato ni treaty tu, ni makubaliano nchi mwanachama anapovamiwa wengine wanasaidia na silaha watakazotumia nipamoja na hizo silaha za kizamani, nato wakianza vita na Russia hawawezi sema hii tusitumie ni ya zamani, hii si ya nato tusitumie, hio ni big no, thats why wanatunza hizo silaha vyema kwenye maghala, kama ni dumped wangeziharibu, nato ni treaty tu kikubwa inamiliki office tu sio silaha, hata vita ikianza ni nchi wanachama ndio wanaingia vitani kwa kufuata makubaliano waliyokubaliana(NATO), hakunaga silaha ya nato. Hivyo Russia inapambana na nchi wanachama wa nato, hivyo kusema nato ikiingia vitani itakuja na silaha za kisasa ni porojo za kwenye kahawa na kujipa matumaini, silaha kazi yake ni uharibifu iwe ya mwaka 1945 au 2020, mengine ni issue za marketing tu.

 

[Fanfa]

Aisee,so you think everybody must support the stupidity and lunacy of the current US Government,you are very wrong.Anyway ifuatayo ni a US cooperation fact sheet with Ukraine,compiled by the Bureau of Political and Millitary Affairs.Sijui nayo utasema ni propaganda ya Urusi...........!!!!

U.S. Security Cooperation with Ukraine​

FACT SHEET
BUREAU OF POLITICAL-MILITARY AFFAIRS
MAY 9, 2023


The United States, our allies, and our partners worldwide are united in support of Ukraine in response to Russia’s premeditated, unprovoked, and unjustified war against Ukraine.  We have not forgotten Russia’s earlier aggression in eastern Ukraine and occupation following its unlawful seizure of Crimea in 2014.  The United States reaffirms its unwavering support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders, extending to its territorial waters.
Ukraine is a key regional strategic partner that has undertaken significant efforts to modernize its military and increase its interoperability with NATO.  It remains an urgent security assistance priority to provide Ukraine the equipment it needs to defend itself against Russia’s war against Ukraine.
Since January 2021, the United States has invested more than $37.6 billion in security assistance to demonstrate our enduring and steadfast commitment to Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. This includes $36.9 billion since Russia’s launched its premeditated, unprovoked, and brutal war against Ukraine on February 24, 2022. Since 2014, the United States has provided more than $39.7 billion in security assistance for training and equipment to help Ukraine preserve its territorial integrity, secure its borders, and improve interoperability with NATO.
United States security assistance committed to Ukraine includes:

• Over 1,600 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
• Over 10,000 Javelin anti-armor systems;
• Over 60,000 other anti-armor systems and munitions;
• Over 160 155mm Howitzers and over 2,000,000 155mm artillery rounds;
• Over 7,000 precision-guided 155mm artillery rounds;
• Over 14,000 155mm rounds of Remote Anti-Armor Mine (RAAM) Systems;
• 100,000 rounds of 125mm tank ammunition;
• Over 50,000 152mm artillery rounds;
• Approximately 40,000 130mm artillery rounds;
• 40,000 122mm artillery rounds;
• 60,000 122mm GRAD rockets;
• 72 105mm Howitzers and over 450,000 105mm artillery rounds;
• Over 300 tactical vehicles to tow weapons;
• 54 tactical vehicles to recover equipment;
• 30 ammunition support vehicles;
• 14 armored bridging systems;
• 38 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems and ammunition;
• 47 120mm mortar systems;
• 10 82mm mortar systems;
• 67 81mm mortar systems;
• 58 60mm mortar systems;
• Over 345,000 mortar rounds;
• Over 3,000 Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missiles;
• Over 1,800,000 rounds of 25mm ammunition;
• Rocket launchers and ammunition;
• Precision-guided rockets;
• 10 command post vehicles;
• One Patriot air defense battery and munitions;
• Eight National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS) and munitions;
• HAWK air defense systems and munitions;
• RIM-7 missiles for air defense;
• 12 Avenger air defense systems;
• Nine c-UAS gun trucks;
• 10 mobile c-UAS laser-guided rocket systems;
• Anti-aircraft guns and ammunition;
• Equipment to integrate Western air defense launchers, missiles, and radars with
• Ukraine’s air defense systems;
• Equipment to sustain Ukraine’s existing air defense capabilities;
• High-speed Anti-radiation missiles (HARMs);
• Precision aerial munitions;
• 4,000 Zuni aircraft rockets;
• Over 7,000 Hydra-70 aircraft rockets;
• 20 Mi-17 helicopters;
• 31 Abrams tanks;
• 45 T-72B tanks;
• 120mm and 105mm tank ammunition;
• 109 Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles;
• Four Bradley Fire Support Team vehicles;
• Over 2,000 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles (HMMWVs);
• Over 100 light tactical vehicles;
• 66 trucks and 114 trailers to transport heavy equipment;
• Eight logistics support vehicles;
• 89 heavy fuel tankers and 105 fuel trailers;
• 90 Stryker Armored Personnel Carriers;
• 300 M113 Armored Personnel Carriers;
• 250 M1117 Armored Security Vehicles;
• Over 500 Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles (MRAPs);
• Six armored utility trucks;
• Mine clearing equipment;
• Over 35,000 grenade launchers and small arms;
• Over 200,000,000 rounds of small arms ammunition and grenades;
• Over 100,000 sets of body armor and helmets;
• Switchblade Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS);
• Phoenix Ghost UAS;
• CyberLux K8 UAS;
• Altius-600 UAS;
• Jump-20 UAS;
• Puma UAS;
• Scan Eagle UAS;
• Two radars for UAS;
• Laser-guided rocket systems and munitions;
• Unmanned Coastal Defense Vessels;
• Over 70 counter-artillery and counter-mortar radars;
• 20 multi-mission radars;
• Counter-Unmanned Aerial Systems and equipment;
• Counter air defense capability;
• 21 air surveillance radars;
• Two Harpoon coastal defense systems;
• 62 coastal and riverine patrol boats;
• Port and harbor security equipment;
• M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel munitions;
• Anti-tank mines;
• C-4 explosives, demolition munitions, and demolition equipment for obstacle clearing;
• Obstacle emplacement equipment;
• Tactical secure communications systems and support equipment;
• Four satellite communications antennas;
• SATCOM terminals and services;
• Thousands of night vision devices, surveillance systems, thermal imagery systems,
• optics, and laser rangefinders;
• Commercial satellite imagery services;
• Explosive ordnance disposal equipment and protective gear;
• Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear protective equipment;
• 100 armored medical treatment vehicles;
• Medical supplies to include first aid kits, bandages, monitors, and other equipment;
• Electronic jamming equipment;
• Field equipment, cold weather gear, generators, and spare parts;
• Support for training, maintenance, and sustainment activities.

To date, nearly 50 Allies and partner countries have provided security assistance to Ukraine. Among their many contributions to Ukraine, Allies and partners have delivered 10 long-range Multiple Launch Rocket Systems (MLRS), 178 long-range artillery systems, nearly 100,000 rounds of long-range artillery ammunition, nearly 250,000 anti-tank munitions, 359 tanks, 629 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs), 8,214 short-range air defense missiles, and 88 lethal UAVs. Since February 24, Allies and partners worldwide have provided or committed over $13 billion in security assistance.

Presidential Drawdown Authority (PDA)​

Pursuant to a delegation by the President, we have used the emergency Presidential Drawdown Authority on thirty-seven occasions since August 2021 to provide Ukraine approximately $21.1 billion in military assistance directly from DoD stockpiles.[1] Consistent with his overall responsibilities for the direction and coordination of foreign assistance, the Secretary of State plays a central role in the initiation and coordination of these drawdowns. After initial engagement with Congress, the Secretary requests the President’s authorization to notify Congress of the intent to exercise the drawdown authority under section 506(a)(1) of the FAA and seeks delegated authority from the President to make the necessary determinations and to direct the drawdown. The Department of State is also responsible for coordinating the implementation of the drawdown with the Department of Defense.[2]

Security Assistance​

On September 8, 2022, the Department notified Congress of our intent to make a further $2.2 billion available in long-term investments under Foreign Military Financing (FMF) to bolster the security of Ukraine and 17 of its regional neighbors; including both many of our NATO allies as well as other regional security partners who are most potentially at risk for future Russian aggression. These funds will help our allies and partners who have provided security assistance to Ukraine backfill their capabilities.
On April 24, 2022, the Department notified Congress of its intention to obligate more than $713 million in Foreign Military Financing funding for Ukraine and 15 other Allied and partner nations in Central and Eastern Europe and the Balkans.  Assistance in this Notification will help NATO Allies backfill capabilities they have donated to Ukraine from their own stockpiles to retain and strengthen NATO deterrence.
So far in FY2023, DoD has provided $8.7 billion in security assistance to Ukraine under the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI) in six separate tranches.
In FY2022, DoD provided $6.3 billion in security assistance to Ukraine under the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI) in seven separate tranches.  All the FY2022 USAI funds appropriated by Congress have now been committed. In FY 2021, Ukraine received $275 million under DoD’s Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI).  This included $75 million in lethal assistance.
In FY 2021, the Department provided Ukraine $115 million in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) and $3 million in International Military Education and Training (IMET) funding.  Prior to Russia’s renewed invasion, FMF supported Ukraine’s acquisition of a wide array of capabilities including counter-mortar radars, secure radios, vehicles, electronic equipment, small arms and light weapons, and medical supplies, among others.
The Global Security Contingency Fund, a joint program of the U.S. Departments of State and Defense, has provided more than $42 million in training, advisory services, and equipment to assist the Government of Ukraine to further develop the tactical, operational, and institutional capacities of its Special Operations Forces, National Guard, conventional forces, non-commissioned officer corps, and combat medical care since 2014.

Excess Defense Articles (EDA)​

On February 20, 2022, the United States utilized the Excess Defense Articles program to transfer Mi-17 helicopters to Ukraine.
Since 2018, the United States has provided Ukraine with four refitted U.S. Coast Guard Island-Class cutters.  The refit was funded with Ukrainian national funds and FMF.  Additional vessels are pending transfer.

Third Party Transfers (TPT)​

In advance of Russia’s invasion and after the outbreak of war in February 2022, the United States approved Third Party Transfers from 14 NATO Allies and close partners to provide U.S.-origin equipment from their inventories for use by Ukrainian forces.  Deliveries to date include almost 12,000 anti-armor systems of all types; more than 1,550 anti-air missiles; radars; night vision devices; machine guns; rifles and ammunition; and body armor.  The contributions from our partners and Allies are vital and appreciated.

Foreign Military Sales​

The United States has $595.9 million in active government-to-government sales cases with Ukraine under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) system.  FMS sales notified to Congress are listed on the DSCA website, and significant prior sales include the: 2022 sale of non-standard artillery ammunition;  2018 sale of 210 Javelin anti-armor missiles, which first provided Ukraine with a critical anti-armor capability; the 2019 sale of 150 additional Javelins; and the 2020 Mark VI patrol boats sale.  The Javelin sales were funded by a mixture of State Department FMF funds and Ukrainian national funds.

Direct Commercial Sales​

From 2015 through 2020, the United States also authorized the permanent export of over $274 million in defense articles and services to Ukraine via Direct Commercial Sales (DCS).  The top categories of DCS exports to Ukraine during that period were Category III: Ammunition and Ordnance ($88 million); Category XII: Fire Control, Laser, Imaging, and Guidance Equipment, ($69 million); and Category XI: Military Electronics ($22 million).

Border Security​

Since 2017, the Department of State’s Bureau of International Security and Nonproliferation has provided over $34.8 million in Nonproliferation, Anti-terrorism, Demining, and Related Programs support to Ukraine through the Export Control and Border Security (EXBS) Program. The State Border Guard Service of Ukraine (SBGS) has been a primary recipient of EXBS assistance. EXBS also provided assistance to Ukraine Customs and export control and sanctions authorities. Until Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022, a major focus of EXBS efforts was the development of SBGS’s Maritime Border Guard operational and sustainment capabilities to replace capabilities lost during Russia’s unlawful annexation of Crimea and introduce modernized equipment, training, and procedures. EXBS also provided advisory and equipment assistance for SBGS land border elements. Following Russia’s further invasion in February 2022, EXBS transitioned to providing non-lethal assistance and continued advisory support to the SBGS and other government partners. In addition, EXBS is also providing $6.9 million in regional NADR funding to support sanctions and export control implementation to respond to Russia’s aggression.

Conventional Weapons Destruction​

On September 30, 2022 the Department awarded $47.6 million to Tetra Tech to launch a large-scale train and equip project to strengthen the Government of Ukraine’s demining and explosive ordnance disposal (EOD) capacity. This project forms part of the $91.5 million in assistance that the Department will provide over FY2023 to help the Government of Ukraine address the urgent humanitarian challenges posed by explosive remnants of war created by Russia’s brutal war of aggression.
Russia’s war against Ukraine has littered massive swaths of the country with landmines and unexploded ordnance. The Government of Ukraine estimates that 160,000 square kilometers of its land may be contaminated – this is roughly the size of the states of Virginia, Maryland, and Connecticut combined, or nearly twice the size of Austria. These explosive hazards block access to farmland, delay or otherwise harm reconstruction efforts, and prevent displaced people from returning to their homes. They may also continue to kill and maim Ukrainian civilians for years to come.
Tetra Tech’s expert instructors will train Government of Ukraine demining and EOD teams to international standards, provide equipment, and mentor trained personnel. The project also supports deploying additional clearance teams and explosive ordnance risk education teams through the local non-governmental organization Ukrainian Deminers Association (UDA).
From 2004 to 2021, the United States provided more than $77.3 million to clear landmines and unexploded ordnance left by Russia’s forces and Russia’s proxies in the Donbas region, strengthen Ukraine’s demining capacity, and enhance security services’ capacity to manage weapons and ammunition stockpiles.  In 2021 alone, the U.S. government funded Conventional Weapons Destruction (CWD) programs that cleared and returned more than 1.9 million square meters (477 acres) of land to local communities that was previously contaminated with explosive hazards.  Since Russia’s further invasion, U.S.-funded digital explosive ordnance risk education campaigns have provided lifesaving information to more than 18 million people in Ukraine.  Additionally, Ukrainian demining authorities previously trained and equipped by the United States are leading emergency efforts to remediate the massive levels of explosive hazard contamination littered across the country by Russian forces.

Global Peacekeeping Operations​

Ukraine was a significant troop contributor to United Nations peacekeeping operations before its troops were called home to defend Ukraine, including a helicopter unit to the United Nations Organization Stabilization Mission in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (MONUSCO).  Ukraine is also a partner country of the Global Peace Operations Initiative and has benefited from nearly $4 million in peace operations capacity-building assistance.

State Partnership Program​

Ukraine is partnered with the California National Guard under DoD’s State Partnership Program (SPP) .  Established in 1993, SPP’s goal was to assist former Warsaw Pact and Soviet states in their democracy efforts and to reform their defense forces following the Soviet Union’s collapse.  Over the past 29 years, California National Guard conducted regular military-to-military engagements with Ukrainian forces, contributing to Ukraine’s continued defense modernization.

Joint Exercises​

Ukraine participates in multiple bilateral and multilateral military exercises with the United States, EU, and NATO Allies to include Rapid Trident, Sea Breeze, and Cossack Mace.

1. Nianze na la kujifanya una akili kuliko wamarekani wote, Pentagon, CIA na Congress. Hapo sina comment zaidi ya kukushauri uende milembe bila shuruti.

2. Pili, Sasa nimeelewa gap uliyo nayo kati ya "NATO allies" na "NATO".

Kumbe kwa tafasiri yako Poland au Finland (NATO allies) akiipa Ukraine silaha ni NATO ndo imetoa.

Na kwa sababu story yote inazungumzia USA (NATO allies) silaha alizotoa kwa Ukraine basi kwa uelewa wako ni NATO ndo katoa msaada wa hizo $37.6B. Lazima utofautishe kati ya nchi Mwanachama wa NATO kuisaidia Ukraine na NATO kama entity. NATO ina military Arsenals ambazo hata nchi wanachama wengine hawana.

Utakuwa huna tofauti na mtu anayesema club ya Yanga imeipa msaada club ya simba kumbe ni mwanachama wa Yanga amempa msaada mwanachama wa simba.

3. Kwenye orodha ya silaha ulizoorodhesha hakuna hana NATO arsenal moja. Unless kama unataka kutuambia kuwa silaha za USA ndo za NATO. USA & German wana silaha nzito na za kisasa hawajatoa hata moja na pamoja na kwamba zingine ni mojawapo ya NATO arsenal.

What I can say in a nutshell, there is NO single NATO arsenal (NATO military inventory) delivered to Ukraine. Full stop. Kama una ushahidi jibu maswali yangu ya mwanzo.

 

[Fanfa]

msihangaike na JAMAA huyu nahisi mlevi flani Wa komoni kaja vjiswali vya kipuuzi .Waelewa tunafuatiria dola ikiserereka kufa kifo cha mende

Naona unawashwa matakoni. unatafuta wa kukuchokonoa ili ukae sawa. Ngoja nikustulie mateja waje wakuone.

 

[Fanfa]

T-14 Armata ikikamilika kabla ya 2025 nitajiita mjinga. Hawana uwezo huo tangu 2015 wanatuonyesha kwenye parade kasoro mwaka huu. Kwanza inaweza ikawa cancelled kwani silaha ngapi zinapigwa chini na zinafufuka miaka mingi baadae.

Waambie kuwa ikiwa kwenye production by 2025 utatembea uchi 😂😂😂😂

 

[Fanfa]

Mleta mada na wewe ni mweupe nato haimiliki silaha zaidi nato ni treaty tu, ni makubaliano nchi mwanachama anapovamiwa wengine wanasaidia na silaha watakazotumia nipamoja na hizo silaha za kizamani, nato wakianza vita na Russia hawawezi sema hii tusitumie ni ya zamani, hii si ya nato tusitumie, hio ni big no, thats why wanatunza hizo silaha vyema kwenye maghala, kama ni dumped wangeziharibu, nato ni treaty tu kikubwa inamiliki office tu sio silaha, hata vita ikianza ni nchi wanachama ndio wanaingia vitani kwa kufuata makubaliano waliyokubaliana(NATO), hakunaga silaha ya nato. Hivyo Russia inapambana na nchi wanachama wa nato, hivyo kusema nato ikiingia vitani itakuja na silaha za kisasa ni porojo za kwenye kahawa na kujipa matumaini, silaha kazi yake ni uharibifu iwe ya mwaka 1945 au 2020, mengine ni issue za marketing tu.

Ama kweli wewe ni mweupe kabisa. Muwe mnasoma ndo mje kuandika hapa jukwaani kuliko kukurupuka.

Kama wanachama wanachangia % kadhaa kwenye NATO hizo pesa zinakuwa managed na nani?. Unajua kweli hata Hierarchy ya NATO ilivyo. Nani anaye manage NATO military bases etc.

Kwa hiyo NATO HQ ni makaratasi ndo yanakaa pale kama unavyodai kuwa NATO ni Treaty tu. Mkuu wa NATO naye sijui anaangalia makaratasi kwenye hilo jengo tu basi.

Kweli vilaza ni wengi

 

[MakinikiA]

Vijana wa upinde amezoea kupumuliana visogoni kama huyu mtoa mada hapa ndio maana wanakurupuka maswali ya mlevi

 

[MakinikiA]

laana ya kuharibu dunia

 

[and 100 others]

Ama kweli wewe ni mweupe kabisa. Muwe mnasoma ndo mje kuandika hapa jukwaani kuliko kukurupuka.

Kama wanachama wanachangia % kadhaa kwenye NATO hizo pesa zinakuwa managed na nani?. Unajua kweli hata Hierarchy ya NATO ilivyo. Nani anaye manage NATO military bases etc.

Kwa hiyo NATO HQ ni makaratasi ndo yanakaa pale kama unavyodai kuwa NATO ni Treaty tu. Mkuu wa NATO naye sijui anaangalia makaratasi kwenye hilo jengo tu basi.

Kweli vilaza ni wengi

Unaelewa maana ya makubaliano, NATO ni makubaliano inajumuisha mambo yote au huelewi hata kirefu chake kina maana gani?

Acha kuwadanganya watu humu eti kuna silaha za nato na ambazo si za nato, hakuna silaha ya nato.

Ndio maana nakuambia NATO wakianza vita askari toka nchi wanachama kama kuna sehemu hana silaha hata manati itatumika.

 

[Fanfa]

Unaelewa maana ya makubaliano, NATO ni makubaliano inajumuisha mambo yote au huelewi hata kirefu chake kina maana gani?

Acha kuwadanganya watu humu eti kuna silaha za nato na ambazo si za nato, hakuna silaha ya nato.

Ndio maana nakuambia NATO wakianza vita askari toka nchi wanachama kama kuna sehemu hana silaha hata manati itatumika.

Your too low to argue with me.

 

[and 100 others]

Your too low to argue with me.

Huna facts unaleta taarab, NATO ni treaty organization acha uongo wako. Halafu nyuzi za kivita nimeacha kuandika 2021.

Soma hapa kama hunifahamu

 

[Mathanzua]

1. Nianze na la kujifanya una akili kuliko wamarekani wote, Pentagon, CIA na Congress. Hapo sina comment zaidi ya kukushauri uende milembe bila shuruti.

2. Pili, Sasa nimeelewa gap uliyo nayo kati ya "NATO allies" na "NATO".

Kumbe kwa tafasiri yako Poland au Finland (NATO allies) akiipa Ukraine silaha ni NATO ndo imetoa.

Na kwa sababu story yote inazungumzia USA (NATO allies) silaha alizotoa kwa Ukraine basi kwa uelewa wako ni NATO ndo katoa msaada wa hizo $37.6B. Lazima utofautishe kati ya nchi Mwanachama wa NATO kuisaidia Ukraine na NATO kama entity. NATO ina military Arsenals ambazo hata nchi wanachama wengine hawana.

Utakuwa huna tofauti na mtu anayesema club ya Yanga imeipa msaada club ya simba kumbe ni mwanachama wa Yanga amempa msaada mwanachama wa simba.

3. Kwenye orodha ya silaha ulizoorodhesha hakuna hana NATO arsenal moja. Unless kama unataka kutuambia kuwa silaha za USA ndo za NATO. USA & German wana silaha nzito na za kisasa hawajatoa hata moja na pamoja na kwamba zingine ni mojawapo ya NATO arsenal.

What I can say in a nutshell, there is NO single NATO arsenal (NATO military inventory) delivered to Ukraine. Full stop. Kama una ushahidi jibu maswali yangu ya mwanzo.

Naomba u-define NATO for me.Kama the West including the US ndio wanao unda NATO,basi tuachane please,ubishi wako wa kijinga wa ku-deny obvious facts for the sake of it siuwezi,goodbye.

 

[sony2]

Ni propaganda za Putin baada ya kumshindwa Zele

Sent from my Infinix NOTE 3 Pro using JamiiForums mobile app

 

[Mdusi94]

Hoja za kijinga hizi kwa sababu kila kitu kipo wazi

Kipo wazi ndo ueleze au kuonesha na sisi tujue , ndo hoja ya jamaa

 

[Mdusi94]

Upinde kazi wanayo Mwaka huu

Pro Russia ni kama nati zimelegea , mnawaza ushoga muda wote

 

[Mdusi94]

Sasa ukijenga hoja kwamba utajiwe series na model za silaha za NATO nani anafuatilia matoleo ya silaha za kisasa kama hayupo kwenye medani za kijeshi? Vita haichagui silaha za kisasa au za kizamani, kila upande unataka ushindi hata kwa kutumia fimbo na marungu. We huoni nchi za NATO zinayojifaragua kuwa zinatuma msaada ukraine?

OP kbs , kama hufuatilii kwann unasema NATO wanapigana Ukraine ? Hiyo ndo hoja ya jamaa , waafrika mna tatizo fulan hv siku mkiliweka sawa mtapiga hatua kubwa , KULOPOKA BILA USHAIDI

 

[Mdusi94]

Nichukue nafasi hii ku declare interest kwamba mimi ni pro russia na ni shabiki wa Putin kindakindaki nikujibu tu kwa kifupi ili tusitumie muda watu bure, kwanza kwanamna ulivyouleta uzi ni kana kwamba hujawahi kuwa na masikio wala macho tangu kuzaliwa kwako hivyo nakujibu kama ifuatavyo:

1. Ukraine haijawahi pokea silaha aina yoyote kutoka NATO

2. Ukraine haijawahi kuwa na kikao chochote na nchi za NATO
3. Ukraine haijawahi pokea aina yoyote ya msaada kutoka nchi za NATO
4. Urusi haijawahi kupambana na silaha yoyote kutoka NATO

5. Hata ile drone iliyokuwa na tani 1.5 ya vilipuzi iliyodondoshwa na fighter jets za urusi pale Black sea ilitoka kwa Alliens

6. Hakuna cha Stoltenberg,
Ursula hata Guteres aliyewahi itisha kikao cha NATO kuzungumzia vita ya Ukraine

7. Hata vikwazo urusi huwa inajifaragua haijawahi wekewa na nchi za NATO

8. Nadhani utakuwa umeridhika

Hv una akli mkuu ? Umejib kijinga na ujinga wako una majibu open kbs , rudi kwa mpalange huko ukajifunze tofauti ya NATO na EU , ukimaliza rudi hapa , NATO hawatoi misaada bali NATO wanakuwa involved kbs , EU ndo wanatoa misaada , USA ni NATO na Germany ni NATO ila USA hatoi misaada kama NATO pia Germany hatoi msaada kama NATO

 

[Mathanzua]

Tangu majeshi ya Russia yavamie Ukraine kumekuwa na tuhuma nyingi kutoka kwa Putin na Pro Russia kuwa majeshi ya NATO yamepelekwa Ukraine kupigana. Tuhuma hizo zimeenda mbali zaidi na kusema kuwa NATO inapeleka vifaa vyake vya kivita Ukraine. Rais Putin kila anapoongea na taifa amekuwa akidai kuwa wanapigana na NATO.

Watu wengi wanaofahamu vifaa vya kijeshi vinavyotumiwa na NATO vyenye Technology ya kisasa ikiwemo ndege za kivita, mifumo ya ulinzi wa anga (Air defense systems), vifaru (Tanks), silaha za kurusha mizinga (Artillery systems), silaha za kurusha makombora/Roketi (MLRS) n.k. wamekuwa wakisema kuwa hakuna silaha za kivita zinazotumiwa na NATO ambazo zimepelekwa Ukraine.

Propaganda za Russia/Putin zinapelekea watu wengi ambao hawajui na hawajawahi kuona silaha za kivita kuamini kuwa madai ya Russia yana ukweli. Pro Russia wengi wa huko Tanzania hawajui silaha za kivita zaidi ya magobole, SMG, mabomu ya machozi na magari ya washawasha yanayotumiwa na jeshi la polisi kupambana na machinga na wafuasi wa nyama vya upinzani.

Hata silaha zenye Technologies ya kisasa zinazotumika kupigana, kujilinda na upelelezi hawazijui. Lakini wamekuwa mabingwa wa kubisha kila kitu kwa ushabiki kama wa yanga na simba ya huko nyumbani.

Kwa kuwa Pro Russia wanaamini propaganda za Russia na hasa Putin, naomba watueleze machache tu ili tuweze kujua kama kweli wanaufahamu wa kutosha kuhusu silaha nzito zinazotumika Ukraine kujibu mapigo kwa Russia ambazo wanadai kuwa ni za NATO.

1. Je, ni silaha zipi za kulinda usalama wa anga (Air defense systems) ambazo unajua zinatumika Ukraine ambazo ni za NATO. ? Tutajia aina ya silaha na model plus series yake.

2. Je, ni silaha zipi za kurusha makombora ya masafa marefu (MLRS) na aina ya makombora ambayo yanatumiwa na majeshi ya NATO nchini Ukraine?. Taja aina, model na series yake.

3. Je, ni aina gani ya ndege za kivita zinazotumiwa na NATO ambazo zinatumika Ukraine na aina ya makombora yanayorushwa na ndege? Taja aina ya ndege, model na series yake.

4. Je, ni aina gani ya vifaru (Tanks) zinazotumika Ukraine ambazo zinatumiwa na NATO na zimepelekwa Ukraine?. Taja aina ya kifaru, model na series yake.

Naomba hoja hizi zijibiwe kwa facts siyo porojo na propaganda ili tujue kama kweli wanaosema hivo wanaelewa au wanaogelea kwenye Propaganda za Putin na pro Russia.

Uzi huu unaweza ukawa wa moto kwa wasio na hoja na waliozoea porojo na matusi.

Karibuni

Pamoja na ubishi wako usio na maana,soma hii,👇labda utaokota kitu,maana si ulisema NATO hawatumii F-16s?

Poland won’t supply F-16s to Ukraine – PM​

Mateusz Morawiecki has admitted he doesn’t have the fighter jets to spare

FILE PHOTO: A F 16 fighter jet takes part in a NATO exercise in Poland, 2022. © Radoslaw Jozwiak / AFP
Warsaw does not have enough F-16 jets or Patriot air defense systems to send any to Ukraine, but other countries should do so right away, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki told reporters on Thursday.
“We have too few F-16 aircraft, so at the moment, today, there are no such expectations from us,” Morawiecki said at a press conference at Castle Mimi in Moldova, on the first day of the European Political Community summit, according to Polskie Radio.
The Polish Air Force officially has 48 F-16 fighters, 12 of which are training variants. It has ordered 48 Golden Eagle light jets from South Korea and 32 F-35s from the US, but they have not yet been delivered.
“We handed over our MiGs – good planes, good fighters, and this is greatly appreciated,” the Polish PM added. Poland followed Slovakia in sending Ukraine some of its 19 Soviet-era MiG-29 jets to make up Kiev’s losses over the past year.
Morawiecki also noted that Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky thanked him for organizing the F-16 “coalition,” referring to the push by several NATO members to supply Kiev with the US-designed fighters. While many countries, including Poland, have offered to train Ukrainian pilots, it remains unclear where the planes would actually come from.
The Polish PM also had bad news for Kiev regarding the replacements for Patriot air defense systems damaged or destroyed by Russian missile strikes.

READ MORE
Russian forces will ‘react’ to F-16 deliveries – Lavrov
“Just as we don’t have enough F-16 fighters, we can't hand over our Patriot systems to Ukraine for the same reason,” Morawiecki said, adding that it was important for other countries that had Patriots “to share them with Ukraine as soon as possible.”
Patriots and F-16s are the latest “game-changer” weapons Kiev has demanded from the West to bolster its forces’ combat capabilities against Russia, especially in the light of its planned counteroffensive.
The Ukrainian government has already received German Leopard and British Challenger tanks, US-made HIMARS rocket launchers, a variety of towed and self-propelled NATO artillery, as well as portable anti-tank and anti-aircraft rockets. Poland, meanwhile, has become a hub for arms supplies to Ukraine from other countries and a training ground for Ukrainian soldiers.
The US and the EU have also provided direct financial aid to Kiev to keep its government functioning. Russia has warned that military aid to Kiev makes Western countries de facto direct participants in the conflict, and said that foreign weapons systems would be treated as legitimate targets on the battlefield.