Ni kweli majeshi ya NATO yako Ukraine na Silaha za NATO zinatumika Ukraine?

Proved said:
NATO hawezi kupeleka vifaa vyote vya kisasa Ukraine kwa sababu nyingi tu, ikiwemo usalama wa vifaa vyake si wakuaminika (Kama vikiangukia mikononi mwa adui).
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Sababu nyingi sana ninazoona mojawapo ni hizi.
1. Russia hana inventory kubwa ya vifaa vya kisasa, kama hivyo vifaru mfano Russia kabla ya vita alidai anavyo T-72 kama 7000 ila vita imeanza mwaka haujaisha ashaanza kuleta T-64. Kumbe hizo T-72 nyingi ni junks, maofisa wa Urusi wezi sana silaha za Urusi kuzipata kwenye black market ni rahisi ndio maana nchi kama Poland zipo NATO ila zina silaha za Urusi na bado hizo silaha zinapata spare parts na service zinafanyiwa wakati Poland haina defense industry ya kutosheleza servicing ya hizo silaha na wala hakuna official Govt to Govt contract. Hivyo vifaru kukuta havina injini au gearbox haina baadhi ya components kawaida sana.
Hakuna ulazima wa kutoa best weapons zikapigane na za kawaida, muda wa best weapons za NATO sio huu.

2. NATO kisheria inataka wanachama watumie angalau 2% of GDP kwenye defence lakini ni nchi chache, sidhani kama zinafika hata tano zinazotimiza. Notably ni Germany, inatumia hela ndogo sana kwenye defense hasa kabla ya hii vita. Wakati huo nchi kubwa zote zina shortage ya wanajeshi na NCOs, unakuta nchi kubwa kiuchumi inalazimika kutengeneza silaha bora ili zifidie uchache wa wanajeshi (na Sweden inafanya hivi ingawa haipo NATO), wanachama wa uchumi mdogo ndio wanaweza kuwa na wanajeshi wengi ila silaha kulingana na NATO standards hawana nyingi.
Hivyo nchi kama Germany, France, Italy na UK wana silaha bora chache (zenye gharama zaidi) kama hivyo vifaru na jets hawawezi vitoa maana hawatabaki na ulinzi.
Ni sawa na Russia ambavyo hawezi weka jeshi lote dhidi ya Ukraine ana mipaka mikubwa sana itabaki bila ulinzi.

3. Russia pale Ukraine haipigani kufa na kupona, nchi ikianzisha fujo yenyewe wanajeshi wake mara nyingi hupigana ilimradi. Ukraine ndio ina cha kupoteza inapigana vikali. Bado sio interest za Westerns kuipiga Russia haraka, wanaipiga taratibu ipungue kiuchumi na kiushawishi lakini isipate sababu za kupigana total war. Hivyo silaha zinakuja kwa mlolongo mrefu na hii inainufaisha NATO na kuichelewesha Ukraine. NATO iliunda silaha kupigana na Russia sasa iko inapigana ikiwa kwenye masofa.

4. Kwenye mikataba ya silaha makampuni huwa na production schedule. Ukiagiza Leopard 2 labda 80 leo kutoka Rheinmetall utaanza kupokea I think kuanzia 2025 napo utapata batch kama 3 za delivery kwa miaka kama mitatu, maana kampuni ina order za Ujerumani na wateja wa kimataifa ziko kwenye ratiba haiwezi zivuka. Thats why haiwezi toa silaha mpya ziende kwa Ukraine hata kama Ujerumani ingeruhusu. Ndio maana Poland kwenye tender yake ya MBT mwaka jana baada ya kuona Russia wanawehuka aliikataa Leopard 2 mojawapo ya sababu ni kuchelewa kwa derivery badala yake akachukua K2 Black Panther ya South Korea ambayo kutokana na Hyundai kutokuwa na international orders yuko free kuanza production ya Poland. K2 ni ndugu na Leo 2 maana Ujerumani iliisaidia South Korea na wakati huo South Korea inaisaidia Turkey kutengeneza Altays MBT.

5. NATO ina inventory kubwa ya Cold war haijatumia, na silaha kuwa ya zamani haimaanishi haitakiwi sasa. Military grade production inakuwa kwenye viwango kwamba hata miaka ijayo silaha itakuwa na maana, that's why weapons are expensive. Zuni rockets za Marekani ni za tangu late 1950s wamepewa Ukraine na sioni ni rockets gani za Urusi zinazidi hizi. Ukraine inaomba F-16 blocks ambazo US hatumii na ndege zina 30+ yrs, Abrams za 30+ yes ambazo Ukraine anataka zinapigwa vumbi Marekani haina mpango nazo tatizo zina depleted uranium armour na Marekani ni mgumu wa kutoa DU nje.
Hivyo silaha zinatumika kwenye lengo lile lile ila kwa kuchelewa timeline, hizi silaha mpya ni kwa ajili ya jeshi au invasion serious.

Sababu zipo nyingi

After this war kama Russia itashindwa (kiuchumi or kisiasa, kijeshi sidhani) ndio utakuwa muda wa kuuza shares za defence contractors wa Ulaya, walikuwa wahuni wanasingizia Russia ina jeshi kubwa na silaha za maana ili wazitishe nchi ziendelee kutoa hela ya R&D na procurement. Itabaki Marekani na kitisho cha China.
 
Proved said:
Hata Urusi ina T14 Armata kama inventory yao mpya ya vifaru......ila haijaonekana 'in action' kikamilifu huko Ukraine.
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T-14 Armata ikikamilika kabla ya 2025 nitajiita mjinga. Hawana uwezo huo tangu 2015 wanatuonyesha kwenye parade kasoro mwaka huu. Kwanza inaweza ikawa cancelled kwani silaha ngapi zinapigwa chini na zinafufuka miaka mingi baadae.
 
Fanfa said:
Trump ni pro Russia. Naye ni mrusi
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Huyu ndiye Rais wako,pole.

Rais Biden wa USA Aanguka Jukwaani

Leo Rais Biden wa USA ameanguka jukwaani wakati akisalimiana na Wahitimu wa chuo cha kijeshi cha Anga huko Colorado, chanzo cha kuanguka hakijulikani kama amejikwaa au ni umri mkubwa kiasi kwamba anapoteza balance. Mara baada ya kuanguka maafisa wa usalama wamemsaidia kuinuka fasta na kumpeleka...
www.jamiiforums.com
 
Mleta mada na wewe ni mweupe nato haimiliki silaha zaidi nato ni treaty tu, ni makubaliano nchi mwanachama anapovamiwa wengine wanasaidia na silaha watakazotumia nipamoja na hizo silaha za kizamani, nato wakianza vita na Russia hawawezi sema hii tusitumie ni ya zamani, hii si ya nato tusitumie, hio ni big no, thats why wanatunza hizo silaha vyema kwenye maghala, kama ni dumped wangeziharibu, nato ni treaty tu kikubwa inamiliki office tu sio silaha, hata vita ikianza ni nchi wanachama ndio wanaingia vitani kwa kufuata makubaliano waliyokubaliana(NATO), hakunaga silaha ya nato. Hivyo Russia inapambana na nchi wanachama wa nato, hivyo kusema nato ikiingia vitani itakuja na silaha za kisasa ni porojo za kwenye kahawa na kujipa matumaini, silaha kazi yake ni uharibifu iwe ya mwaka 1945 au 2020, mengine ni issue za marketing tu.
 
1. Nianze na la kujifanya una akili kuliko wamarekani wote, Pentagon, CIA na Congress. Hapo sina comment zaidi ya kukushauri uende milembe bila shuruti.

2. Pili, Sasa nimeelewa gap uliyo nayo kati ya "NATO allies" na "NATO".

Kumbe kwa tafasiri yako Poland au Finland (NATO allies) akiipa Ukraine silaha ni NATO ndo imetoa.

Na kwa sababu story yote inazungumzia USA (NATO allies) silaha alizotoa kwa Ukraine basi kwa uelewa wako ni NATO ndo katoa msaada wa hizo $37.6B. Lazima utofautishe kati ya nchi Mwanachama wa NATO kuisaidia Ukraine na NATO kama entity. NATO ina military Arsenals ambazo hata nchi wanachama wengine hawana.

Utakuwa huna tofauti na mtu anayesema club ya Yanga imeipa msaada club ya simba kumbe ni mwanachama wa Yanga amempa msaada mwanachama wa simba.

3. Kwenye orodha ya silaha ulizoorodhesha hakuna hana NATO arsenal moja. Unless kama unataka kutuambia kuwa silaha za USA ndo za NATO. USA & German wana silaha nzito na za kisasa hawajatoa hata moja na pamoja na kwamba zingine ni mojawapo ya NATO arsenal.

What I can say in a nutshell, there is NO single NATO arsenal (NATO military inventory) delivered to Ukraine. Full stop. Kama una ushahidi jibu maswali yangu ya mwanzo.
 
MakinikiA said:
msihangaike na JAMAA huyu nahisi mlevi flani Wa komoni kaja vjiswali vya kipuuzi .Waelewa tunafuatiria dola ikiserereka kufa kifo cha mende
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Naona unawashwa matakoni. unatafuta wa kukuchokonoa ili ukae sawa. Ngoja nikustulie mateja waje wakuone.
 
T14 Armata said:
T-14 Armata ikikamilika kabla ya 2025 nitajiita mjinga. Hawana uwezo huo tangu 2015 wanatuonyesha kwenye parade kasoro mwaka huu. Kwanza inaweza ikawa cancelled kwani silaha ngapi zinapigwa chini na zinafufuka miaka mingi baadae.
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Waambie kuwa ikiwa kwenye production by 2025 utatembea uchi 😂😂😂😂
 
Ama kweli wewe ni mweupe kabisa. Muwe mnasoma ndo mje kuandika hapa jukwaani kuliko kukurupuka.

Kama wanachama wanachangia % kadhaa kwenye NATO hizo pesa zinakuwa managed na nani?. Unajua kweli hata Hierarchy ya NATO ilivyo. Nani anaye manage NATO military bases etc.

Kwa hiyo NATO HQ ni makaratasi ndo yanakaa pale kama unavyodai kuwa NATO ni Treaty tu. Mkuu wa NATO naye sijui anaangalia makaratasi kwenye hilo jengo tu basi.

Kweli vilaza ni wengi
 
Vijana wa upinde amezoea kupumuliana visogoni kama huyu mtoa mada hapa ndio maana wanakurupuka maswali ya mlevi
 
laana ya kuharibu dunia
 

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Unaelewa maana ya makubaliano, NATO ni makubaliano inajumuisha mambo yote au huelewi hata kirefu chake kina maana gani?

Acha kuwadanganya watu humu eti kuna silaha za nato na ambazo si za nato, hakuna silaha ya nato.

Ndio maana nakuambia NATO wakianza vita askari toka nchi wanachama kama kuna sehemu hana silaha hata manati itatumika.
 
Your too low to argue with me.
 
Naomba u-define NATO for me.Kama the West including the US ndio wanao unda NATO,basi tuachane please,ubishi wako wa kijinga wa ku-deny obvious facts for the sake of it siuwezi,goodbye.
 
OP kbs , kama hufuatilii kwann unasema NATO wanapigana Ukraine ? Hiyo ndo hoja ya jamaa , waafrika mna tatizo fulan hv siku mkiliweka sawa mtapiga hatua kubwa , KULOPOKA BILA USHAIDI
 
Hv una akli mkuu ? Umejib kijinga na ujinga wako una majibu open kbs , rudi kwa mpalange huko ukajifunze tofauti ya NATO na EU , ukimaliza rudi hapa , NATO hawatoi misaada bali NATO wanakuwa involved kbs , EU ndo wanatoa misaada , USA ni NATO na Germany ni NATO ila USA hatoi misaada kama NATO pia Germany hatoi msaada kama NATO
 
Pamoja na ubishi wako usio na maana,soma hii,👇labda utaokota kitu,maana si ulisema NATO hawatumii F-16s?

Poland won’t supply F-16s to Ukraine – PM​

Mateusz Morawiecki has admitted he doesn’t have the fighter jets to spare

FILE PHOTO: A F 16 fighter jet takes part in a NATO exercise in Poland, 2022. © Radoslaw Jozwiak / AFP
Warsaw does not have enough F-16 jets or Patriot air defense systems to send any to Ukraine, but other countries should do so right away, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki told reporters on Thursday.
“We have too few F-16 aircraft, so at the moment, today, there are no such expectations from us,” Morawiecki said at a press conference at Castle Mimi in Moldova, on the first day of the European Political Community summit, according to Polskie Radio.
The Polish Air Force officially has 48 F-16 fighters, 12 of which are training variants. It has ordered 48 Golden Eagle light jets from South Korea and 32 F-35s from the US, but they have not yet been delivered.
“We handed over our MiGs – good planes, good fighters, and this is greatly appreciated,” the Polish PM added. Poland followed Slovakia in sending Ukraine some of its 19 Soviet-era MiG-29 jets to make up Kiev’s losses over the past year.
Morawiecki also noted that Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky thanked him for organizing the F-16 “coalition,” referring to the push by several NATO members to supply Kiev with the US-designed fighters. While many countries, including Poland, have offered to train Ukrainian pilots, it remains unclear where the planes would actually come from.
The Polish PM also had bad news for Kiev regarding the replacements for Patriot air defense systems damaged or destroyed by Russian missile strikes.

READ MORE
Russian forces will ‘react’ to F-16 deliveries – Lavrov
“Just as we don’t have enough F-16 fighters, we can't hand over our Patriot systems to Ukraine for the same reason,” Morawiecki said, adding that it was important for other countries that had Patriots “to share them with Ukraine as soon as possible.”
Patriots and F-16s are the latest “game-changer” weapons Kiev has demanded from the West to bolster its forces’ combat capabilities against Russia, especially in the light of its planned counteroffensive.
The Ukrainian government has already received German Leopard and British Challenger tanks, US-made HIMARS rocket launchers, a variety of towed and self-propelled NATO artillery, as well as portable anti-tank and anti-aircraft rockets. Poland, meanwhile, has become a hub for arms supplies to Ukraine from other countries and a training ground for Ukrainian soldiers.
The US and the EU have also provided direct financial aid to Kiev to keep its government functioning. Russia has warned that military aid to Kiev makes Western countries de facto direct participants in the conflict, and said that foreign weapons systems would be treated as legitimate targets on the battlefield.
 
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