The rise and fall of Colonel Muamar Gadaffi

The rise and fall of Colonel Muamar Gadaffi

traffic jam.JPG


Picture of a traffic jam of cars heading to Martyrs' square to join the celebrations. The lights in the background are Martyrs' square. And yet some pple are dreaming of Ghaddafi comeback??????? Gimme a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
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Nimejiuliza Waliokuwa wakimshangilia Ghaddafi kabla ya wapinzani wake kuiteka Tripoli sasa hivi wako wapi? na wale wanaowashangilia waasi sasa hivi walikuwa wapi? ni wale wale wakazi wa Tripoli ambao sasa hivi wanapiga mateke na kukanyaga picha za Ghadaffi au wametokea Benghazi?!!? Viongozi wetu wapate funzo wananchi wale wale wanao busu miguu yako na kuimba nyimbo za kukutukuza na kukupa ushindi wa kishindo katika kila uchaguzi, wanafanya hivyo siyo kwa sababu wanakupenda hapana, wanafanya hivyo kwa kuogopa polisi, makachero na wanajeshi wako na silaha zao zisizo na breki, siku wakiondolewa vitisho na wakawa huru watatemea mate picha zako na kuimba nyimbo za kukutukana. Waafrika VIGEUGEU au HAWANA UHURU!!!!?
 
Nonda said:
Mkuu EMT

Tumwagie hapa kidogo ukweli unaoufahamu wa Libyan uprising.

General Wesley Clark on 9/11 n Libya, Libya was already planned, Iran next.. - YouTube

2011-03-01 French, English and US Special Forces Enter Libya to Reinforce Uprising #Libya #Feb17

Libya is not a people's revolution | Thom Hartmann - News & info from the #1 progressive radio show

108morris108's Channel - YouTube
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Mkuu Nonda kwanza ikumbukwe Gaddafi alivyoingia tuu madarakani ali create revolutionary committees ili kufuatilia kwa karibu yoyote alikuwa anampinga. Asilimia 20 ya wa Walibya wamefanya kazi kama informants wa hizi revolutionary committees. Surveillance ilikuwa inafanyika sehemu zote zikiwepo ofisi za serikali, viwandani na sehemu za elimu. Kwa maana nyingine ilikuwa ni marufuku kumpinga Gaddafi na utawala wake.

Wakati wa utawala Gaddafi, Walibya waliokuwa wanampinga walikuwa wanauawa hadharani kwa kunyongwa, kukatwa sehemu za miili yao. Haya yote yalikuwa yakionyeshwa live kwenye TV ya taifa na kurudiwa kila mara. Hadi mwaka 1980, utawala wa Gaddafi ume assassinate Walibya wengi nje ya Libya waliokuwa wanapinga utawala wa kidikta wa Gaddafi. Mojawapo ni yule mwandishi wa habari wa Libya ambaye Gaddafi alitoa dola milioni moja kwa mtu atakayemua.

Mpaka hivi karibuni ilikuwa ni marufuku kufundisha lugha za kigeni mashuleni. Ilikuwa ni marufuku kuongea na foreigner yoyote kuhusu siasa. Adhabu yake ilikuwa ni miaka mitatu jela. Sheria namba 75 ya mwaka 1974 ilipiga marufuku kumpinga Gaddafi kwa aina yoyote ile. Gaddafi mwenyewe alisema kuwa Mlibya yoyote akayekutwa amenzisha chama cha kisiaa atanyongwa.

Pia kuna mambo ya kichumi ambyo yamechangia kuanguka kwa Gaddafi. Biashara karibu zote zilikuwa zinamilikiwa na Gaddafi na familia yake. Kama ulisoma zile cables za wikileaks ambazo zili-describe Libyan economy as akleptocracy in which the government — either the al-Qadhafi family itself or its close political allies — has a direct stake in anything worth buying, selling or owning."

Mapato mengi ya mafuta yalitumika ku sponsor violence sehemu mbalimbali za dunia ikiwemo Tanzania wakati wa vita na Idd Amin. Labda kingine klichomharibia Gaddafi ni lavish lifestyles ya familia na ndugu zake. Luxurious homes, Hollywood film investments and private parties with American pop stars. Gaddafi hawataki the West wakati familia yake inawawalika pop stars wao for private parties. Imagine Riziwani, kwa fedha za umma amwalike Beyonce for a private party Ikulu. Reaction yako itakuwaje?

Mkuu I am 100% sure ungemtetea pia Mubarak kama angekuwa na uhusiano mbaya na nchi za magharibi. I am 100% sure usingemtetea Gaddafi kama angekuwa na uhusiano mzuri na nchi za magharibi. I am sure wapo watu wangeanza kulalamika kama the West wasingeingilia kati wakati Gaddafi alivyoanza kuwaia Walibya wenzake. Walikaa kimya Rwanda tukapika kelele kama nini. Sikubalini na baadhi ya mambo ambayo yamefanywa na West, lakini itabakia kuwa Gaddafi alikuwa dikteta. Maovu yanayodaiwa kufanywa na West kamwe hawezi kusafisha uovu uliofanywa na Gaddafi kwa miaka 42.

Mkuu kwa kifupi, pamoja na kuwa na almost kila kitu, Walibya walikuwa hawana uhuru wowote kama unaojivunia wewe. Uhuru ulionao ndio unaofanya kuwepo kwa JF. Ndio uhuru unaokuwezesha kukaa mbele ya computer yako comfortably ukicheza na hiyo keyboard the way you like it. Kama alivyosema Mthuya kwenye threads nyingine ni “Heri uishi maisha ya shida uwe huru kuliko kuishi maisha ya raha na kuwa mtumwa wa fikra.” Wapo ambao wata buy maisha ya raha na kuwa mtumwa wa fikra, lakini Walibya wameyaishi hayo maisha kwa miaka 42 na kuyachoka.

 
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Pro Gaddafi rally in Sirte 2nd September 2011!



Tripoli nako ilikuwa hivi hivi lakini baadaye hao hao wakamgeuka Gaddafi. Sijui itakuwaje Sirte waasi wakiingia mjini!
 
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EMT said:
HTML: 
Mkuu Nonda kwanza ikumbukwe Gaddafi alivyoingia tuu madarakani ali create revolutionary committees ili kufuatilia kwa karibu yoyote alikuwa anampinga.
Hizi commitees ndio direct democracy au spying units?
HTML: 
Mkuu I am 100% sure ungemtetea pia Mubarak kama angekuwa na uhusiano mbaya na nchi za magharibi. I am 100% sure usingemtetea Gaddafi kama angekuwa na uhusiano mzuri na nchi za magharibi.
Mkuu wewe unampinga kwa sababu hana uhusiano mzuri na nchi za Magharibi?I am sure wapo watu wangeanza kulalamika kama the West wasingeingilia kati wakati
HTML: 
Gaddafi alivyoanza kuwaia Walibya wenzake.
Human Rights Watch shows that Gaddafi was not deliberately killing civilians. - YouTube. Human Rights Watch shows that Gaddafi was not deliberately killing civilians., page 1 Walikaa kimya Rwanda tukapika kelele kama nini.
HTML: 
 Sikubalini na baadhi ya mambo ambayo yamefanywa na West, lakini itabakia kuwa Gaddafi alikuwa dikteta.

Mkuu EMT Walibya walipata bahati sana kupata "dikteta Gaddafi", Ninatamani kama na sisi Tanzania tungepata dikteta kama yeye. Leo nchi yetu ingekuwa na maendeleo kama ya Libya kabla ya Uharibifu wa NATO.

HTML: 
Maovu yanayodaiwa kufanywa na West kamwe hawezi kusafisha uovu uliofanywa na Gaddafi kwa miaka 42.
Mkuu historia ya mzungu, wazungu kwa jamii na mataifa mengine umeisahau au ni katika kukidhi haja ya mjadala huu tu. Vipi utalinganisha uovu wa wazungu,NATO na US na ubaya ,uovu wa Gaddafi?

Mkuu kwa kifupi, pamoja na kuwa na almost kila kitu, Walibya walikuwa hawana uhuru wowote kama unaojivunia wewe. Uhuru ulionao ndio unaofanya kuwepo kwa JF. Ndio uhuru unaokuwezesha kukaa mbele ya computer yako comfortably ukicheza na hiyo keyboard the way you like it
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Mkuu EMT. domokrasia bila ya shibe, afya njema, makaazi? Ningefurahi hata sisi TZ tungeanza na maendelo ya elimu, makazi,lishe bora kama walivyopitia Libya halafu ndio tungeanza harakati za uhuru wa kukaaa kwenye key board na kucheza nayo comfortably.

Ieleweke pia kuwa Libya walishaanza political reforms,kutanua wigo wa uhuru wa kusema na mageuzi ya kikatiba. Kwa kifupi NATO na US hawakuweza kuvumilia kuona hayo na yale ya uanzishi wa mfumo wa fedha wa Afrika ukichukua mkondo wake.
Kama alivyosema Mthuya kwenye threads nyingine ni “Heri uishi maisha ya shida uwe huru kuliko kuishi maisha ya raha na kuwa mtumwa wa fikra.” Wapo ambao wata buy maisha ya raha na kuwa mtumwa wa fikra, lakini Walibya wameyaishi hayo maisha kwa miaka 42 na kuyachoka.
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Mtoto akililia wembe......watuulize sisi TZ....tuna uhuru wa kupayuka tutakalo, hasa tukiwa kwenye keyboard..lakini ufisadi na umasikini una sky rocket!
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Mkuu hii square ni ile ya Qatar au Tripoli?
 
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Askari Kanzu said:
Pro Gaddafi rally in Sirte 2nd September 2011!

Tripoli nako ilikuwa hivi hivi lakini baadaye hao hao wakamgeuka Gaddafi. Sijui itakuwaje Sirte waasi wakiingia mjini!
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Mkuu
Unasahau kuwa watu hukimbia mvua ya mabomu ya NATO?
Bila NATO hakuna "waasi", kuna kikundi cha wabenghazi tu.

Hata hapa kwetu,TZ..tunapoandamana , maganda /magamba wakituma askari polisi wao na wanapofyatua risasi za moto..umati wote hutawanyika.
 
Libya story is very complicated. It is not as easy as many takes it to be.
bTW this is good thread to make my conclusion on Libya issue. Whether Ghaddafi was a good leader or not is not and have never been my point. Rebels have shed blood of Libyan while they had option to avoid it, they ha e smashed Libya while they could have avoided, they have caused permanent disabilities while they could have avoided it. They are now selling Libya resources to their Lords. That is enough to show that they are not Liberators but destroyers. In essence, they arre worse than Ghaddafi by any scale.
If there will be a thing that will make me honor Dr. Slaa, is his words that he can't go to state house using our bloods. That evidences quality of leadership and rebels did the opposite. Westerns don't care for Libyan but rebels, who are Libyans should have cared.
Poleni wananchi wa Libya, mna safari ndefu ya ku experince umaskini ktk nchi tajiri. Sisi tunapigania kuondoka huku, ninyi mwapigana kuja huku.
Poleni sana!
 
Libyan Rebel Military Chief Says He Was Tortured By CIA




Abdulhakim Belhaj's allegations suggest a close relationship between the US and Gaddafi's regime.
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By Patrick Cockburn

The overthrow of Gaddafi has brought together strange allies, but few stranger than Abdulhakim Belhaj, the military commander of all rebel military forces in Tripoli, and Nato. An Islamist whom Gaddafi tried to have the US list as a terrorist, Mr Belhaj says he was tortured by CIA agents after being arrested in the Far East in 2004 and later handed over by them to Colonel Gaddafi for further torture and imprisonment in Libya.

Mr Belhaj, the head of the military council for Tripoli, who led an Islamist guerrilla organisation fighting the Gaddafi regime in the 1990s, told The Independent in an interview that he had been directly "tortured by CIA agents" in Thailand after being first arrested in Malaysia.

If true, his story is evidence of the close co-operation between the CIA and Colonel Gaddafi's security services after the Libyan leader denounced the 9/11 attacks. After his stint in the hands of the CIA, Mr Belhaj was kept in Abu Salim prison in Tripoli. He says: "I was in prison for seven years during which I was subjected to torture as well as solitary confinement. I was even denied a shower for three years." Other Libyan Islamist prisoners have related how they were sometimes taken from Abu Salim to be questioned by US officials in Tripoli.

Released from prison in 2010, Mr Belhaj, who had military experience from fighting in Afghanistan against the Russians in the 1980s, became one of the most effective rebel military commanders. He is said by diplomats to have played a crucial role in the capture of Tripoli at the end of last month, and is highly regarded by the chairman of the Transitional National Council (TNC), Mustafa Abdul Jalil.

Ironically, given his claims of previous mistreatment at US hands, Mr Belhaj has emerged as one of Nato's most important allies during their air campaign in support of the rebels over the last six months. Speaking in his headquarters in the Mitiga military airbase on the eastern outskirts of Tripoli, he forcefully denied that he and the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), which he helped found in 1995, had ever been allied to al-Qa'ida.

"We never had any link to al-Qa'ida," said Mr Belhaj, a short, soft-spoken, bearded man, who does not use a military title. "We never took part in global jihad. The fact that we were in the same country, Afghanistan, [as al-Qa'ida] does not mean we had the same goal." He stresses that the sole aim of the LIFG was always to overthrow Gaddafi.

Despite his current close co-operation with Nato, Mr Belhaj says he finds it difficult to forgive his treatment by the CIA in the past.

When first detained at an airport in Malaysia in 2004 he says he was with his wife: "She was six months pregnant and she suffered a lot."

After a few days, CIA agents took him to Thailand as part of the notorious rendition process by which the agency transferred prisoners to countries where security forces were known to use torture. He says that in Thailand CIA agents took a direct part in his torture, though he did not give details. He says that "if I ever have the chance I will take legal action" against those responsible.

The disclosure of Libya's intelligence files may reveal embarrassing details of co-operation between the CIA and other Western intelligence agencies with Gaddafi's brutal and ruthless security services in pursuit of Islamist opponents. Mr Belhaj says that in the wake of 9/11, the US administration reacted by pursuing "any organisation with an Islamic agenda".

Mr Belhaj spent seven years in Abu Salim prison which was the site of the Gaddafi regime's most infamous atrocity, the massacre of some 1,200 prisoners in 1999, almost all of them Islamists, who had protested against conditions. The first protests which ushered in the uprising in Benghazi this February was by lawyers representing the families of the dead Abu Salim prisoners.

The Libyan prison was run with great savagery even against those whose offences were minor. Students accused of being excessively religious were stripped naked and attacked by dogs. Prisoners who survived might spend decades without seeing their families. In Abu Salim, Mr Belhaj helped write a 419-page document, published in 2009, which repudiated the Jihadi doctrine of holy war and the use of violence to change regimes. The name of the LIFG was changed to the Libyan Islamic Movement for Change. The ideological change, spurred by the failure of radical Islamic groups fighting on their own to overthrow governments, led to Islamists seeking the co-operation of more secular and liberal groups also opposed to Arab police states. It is these popular front coalitions that have won victories in Tunisia, Egypt and now Libya.

Mr Belhaj is keen to underline that he and other Islamists are not seeking to impose their agenda. He says: "The Libyan people have different views and those views will be respected." He also evidently wants to reassure Nato countries that they have not helped get rid of Gaddafi only to see a fundamentalist Islamic state replace him. He had just returned from a meeting in Doha, the capital of Qatar, which has given him significant support, where "I explained to them our vision of the future." Mustafa Abdul Jalil, chairman of the TNC, specifically says he was taken to a Nato meeting in order to reassure the West that he presented no threat.

Mr Belhaj says the thousands of militiamen from all over Libya, who owe allegiance to his Military Council, will ultimately join a new Libyan army or return to civilian life. Asked about mass round-ups of sub-Saharan Africans, often undocumented workers, accused of being mercenaries, he said he wanted harassment stopped, but many immigrants had no identity card. He added: "Last night 10 immigrants came to this base for protection and we will check their IDs and either look after them or help them leave the country."

On the whereabouts of Gaddafi, he said that the military operation room in charge of locating him had "strong information he is in Bani Walid". Saadi, one of Gaddafi's sons had phoned Mr Belhaj a few days ago "to separate himself from his father's regime" and was told that, if he surrendered himself, his safety would be guaranteed and he would receive a fair trial.

©independent.co.uk
 
Nonda said:
Mkuu hii square ni ile ya Qatar au Tripoli?
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Mkuu umeniacha. You regard the Gaddafi's Lijan Shaabiya as direct democracy? Maelfu ya watu wanakaa kwenye vikao kujadili maamuzi yaliyofanywa na kikundi kidogo cha watu walio juu with all direction coming from the Brother Leader. Hiyo ndio direct democracy? Mkuu tofautisha kufanya maamuzi na kujadili maamuzi. Because Libya under Gaddafi was a direct democracy (anyone reading this stop laughing) ndio maana Walibya wameitumia hiyo democracy kumwondoa.

Unaongelea kuhusu Human Rights saying Gaddafi was not "deliberately" killing civilians. Labda tuu ni quote comment ya mtu aliacha kwenye hiyo link:
"Before the rebels were "rebels", they were the "opposition". I recall very clearly that Gadaffi threatened violence and death to the opposition. Once the opposition began defending themselves they became rebels. Yes, Gadaffi deliberately killed civilians. Semantics doesn't change the facts."

Kuhusia na wewe kuamini kuwa Tanzania tungepata dikteta kama yeye, nchi yetu ingekuwa na maendeleo kama ya Libya ni sawa na kusema ni heri kuishi maisha ya raha na kuwa mtumwa wa fikra. Kwa upo tayari ku sacrifice utu wako for materialism. Is that true? Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway kuna maendeleo kwa sababu zinaongozwa na madikteta?

Mkuu kuhusu hitoria ya wazungu kwa jamii na mataifa mengine hauwezi hata siku moja kutumika kusahihisha maovu aliyofanya Gaddafi. Mkuu uovu ni uovu tuu. Huwezi kulinganisha uovu na uovu ili ujue uovu upi ni mzuri zaidi au mbaya zaidi. Ukiua kwa jiwe, mie nikaua kwa panga, wote tumeua. Ukimbaka mwanamke ukiwa umevaa kondomu na mimi nikibaka nikiwa sijavaa kondomu, yote ni makosa ya ubakaji. Sipimi uovu wa mtu kwa kuangalia uovu wa mtu mwingine. Kwa maana nyingine wrong plus wrong does not make it right. Kwa miaka 42 aliyokaa madarakani, Gaddafi kafanya maovu mengi na katika ku determine adhabu au msamaha Mwenyezi Mungu hatafanya hivyo kwa kupima maovu yake na yale ya NATO.

Kuhusu Libya walishaanza political reforms nakubaliana na wewe. Mtoto wa Gadaffi alikuwa mstari wa mbele kwa hili. Nafikiri hata Ph.D yake ilikuwa kwenye mambo ya demokrasi kama sijakosea. Lakini baba yake akamtolea nje kiana kwa kuja na idea hii: Gaddafi offers oil and power to people - Times Online. Lakini nimefurahishwa wewe kukubali kuwa Libya walishaanza political reforms, kutanua wigo wa uhuru wa kusema na mageuzi ya kikatiba. Hii inaovyesha unakubali kuwa kulikuwa hakuna uhuru kule. Mistake aliyofanya Gaddafi ni ku delay hizo reforms. Hakusoma alama za nyakati. Angezifanya mapema wala haya yasingemkuta.

Sure, kama Walibya wamelilia wembe kinachotuuma nini? Mkuu kuhusu hiyo video ulitaka nikuwekee zile za TV ya Russia? Maana nikiweka ya BBC, Sky au hata ya TBC1 unaweza kuuliza swali lile lile. LOL.

Weekend njema Mkuu
 
EMT said:
Kuhusu Libya walishaanza political reforms nakubaliana na wewe.
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Mtoto wa Gadaffi alikuwa mstari wa mbele kwa hili. Nafikiri hata Ph.D yake ilikuwa kwenye mambo ya demokrasi kama sijakosea. Lakini baba yake akamtolea nje kiana kwa kuja na idea hii: Gaddafi offers oil and power to people - Times Online. Lakini nimefurahishwa wewe kukubali kuwa Libya walishaanza political reforms, kutanua wigo wa uhuru wa kusema na mageuzi ya kikatiba. Hii inaovyesha unakubali kuwa kulikuwa hakuna uhuru kule.
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Mkuu, nimewahi kusikia kuwa "there is always a room for improvement...hii haimananishi kuwa kitu kinachotakiwa hakipo, ila huonekana kuwa hakitoshi.Ni kawaida ya binadamu.
Mistake aliyofanya Gaddafi ni ku delay hizo reforms. Hakusoma alama za nyakati. Angezifanya mapema wala haya yasingemkuta.
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Mkuu tunaposema alichelewa ni sawa na kuhalalisha uhalifu wanaoufanya US-NATO around the world..kila nchi ,jamii ina haki ya kubadilika kutokana na "pace" yake, vyenginevyo ni upandikizaji wa serikali vibaraka tu. There was and there is a better way of helping Libyans to achieve reforms kuliko hii ya "ku-bomb" libya and regime change.
Sure, kama Walibya wamelilia wembe kinachotuuma nini?
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Ni wazi kuwa hii issue ya Libya inatugusa sote, vyenginevyo wewe na mimi na wengineo tusingejadiliana kuhusu issue hii, hata kama haituumi lakini ni mjadala mzuri kuona vipi watu wanaitazama issue moja kutoka angles tofauti.It is not personal!
Mkuu kuhusu hiyo video ulitaka nikuwekee zile za TV ya Russia? Maana nikiweka ya BBC, Sky au hata ya TBC1 unaweza kuuliza swali lile lile. LOL.
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Hapa zipo ripoti kuwa kule Qatar imejengwa replica ya Green square for propaganda purposes.
Weekend njema Mkuu
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Kwako pia, mkuu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=r5ATTCv3SuA
 
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Nonda said:
Kwako pia, mkuu

Libya is part of the post 911 perpetual war - Mahdi Nazemroaya - YouTube
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Sawa mkuu tukiendelea hii debate kutakucha hala. Lakii cheki yanayoanza kugundulika huko Libya:

US and UK spy agencies built close ties with their Libyan counterparts during the so-called War on Terror, according to documents discovered at the office of Col Gaddafi's former spy chief. The papers suggest the CIA abducted several suspected militants from 2002 to 2004 and handed them to Tripoli. The UK's MI6 also apparently gave the Gaddafi regime details of dissidents. BBC News - Libya: Gaddafi regime's US-UK spy links revealed



 
His options are few. & limited. The world is changing very fast, its a new century and pole, pole, and haya sawa ain't going to cut it. These corrupted leaders need to drill that into their heads. What can happen tomorrow nobody can predict anymore. Its an unpredictable world we live in today.
 
FaizaFoxy said:
Mkumbuke kuwa sababu moja ya hawa waasi kumkataa Gadhafi ni eti kuwa Gadhafi anaharibu mali ya Libya kwa kuigawa hovyo bila mpango.

Gadhafi mali ya Libya kaigawa wapi zaidi ya kusaidia Waafrika wenzake?
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Mali ya Libya inatakiwa igawiwe Libya, sio nchi nyingine za Kiafrika.
 
NONDA kamanda endelea kutupa yanayojiri huko kaka.
Hawa wakurupukaji wanaowashobokea mbwa koko waasi na hao NATO watarudi tu kundini...

Pasua Nonda, penya Nonda, fukua mpaka ukweli tuujue Nonda.
 
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