Uchochezi wa Mohamed Said na dhihaka kwa Wapigania Uhuru wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar
Uchochezi wa Mohamed Said na dhihaka kwa Wapigania Uhuru wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar
- Thread starter Yericko Nyerere
- Start date
Nguruvi3
Platinum Member
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Ritz, siyo mimi nisamaye hayo. Ni watu wa Mombasa.Ni matokeo ya mitihani ya Kenya.
Lakini pia nimewahi kwenda na kuishi Mombasa kama nilivyoishi Kivinje na masoko kwahiyo nina right hand info from the ground.
Mzee Athuman H wa Kivinje angekuwa ana uwezo wa kuja hapa angenishuhudia.
Mohamed Said
JF-Expert Member
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Mwanaharakati,
Ngoja niwape ''passage'' moja ngumu watafakari.
Insha Allah nawapa kipande kimoja ni marehemu Abdulwahid akizungumza kuhusu hadhi ya TAA
mwaka 1951.
Inatoka katika ''The Life and Times of Abdulwahid Sykes...''
Hii ilikuwa katika taarifa yake ya mwaka 1950 kama katibu:
[TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable"]
[TR]
[TD] A team of party historians, commissioned by the Party-Chama Cha Mapinduzi (CCM) to research and write an official history of TANU, did not even mention Abdulwahid's name in the entire book.[1]
The dominant school of thought in the book is the assertion that before the emergence of Julius Nyerere in April 1953, when he was elected TAA President, the African Association leadership did not articulate any concrete political thought.
This premise has denied many patriots a place of honour in the political history of Tanzania and also eroded the status of the Association as a political movement.
Local historians and post-independence party bureaucrats do not want to credit the African Association with a political identity.
Kambona referred to the African Association as a debating society:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] ''It is just a little over one year since the inception of the Tanganyika African National Union and during this period it has grown from strength to strength, sometimes in the teeth of great opposition. As you are well aware it superseded the former Tanganyika African Association which was little more than a debating society.''[2] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] Ulotu has referred to the organisation as a welfare association.[3]
Others have referred to the Association as a social organisation: Nyerere (1966),[4] Japhet and Seaton (1966),[5] John Hatch (1976).[6] In other places it is referred to as a semi-protest movement: Kaniki (1974),[7] as a semi-political movement: Nyerere (1953).[8] Julius Nyerere appearing in an oral hearing at the Trusteeship Council at the United Nations, New York, on 7 th March, 1955, shifted his position and referred to the Association as a semi-political movement:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] ''The Tanganyika African National Union is, in one sense, a new organisation, but in another it is an old organisation. It was taken over from what was formerly called the Tanganyika African Association, which was founded in 1929, largely as a social organisation. The Tanganyika African National Union, which took over from the African Association about ten months ago, is a new organisation in the sense that it is a political organisation, where as the former was semi-political.''[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] Other scholars have reduced the association to the level of club:
Mwenegoha(1976) writes: ''In 1954, after 25 years of inertia, Nyerere remodelled TAA from a social club into a formidable political organisation called the Tanganyika African National Union.'' [9] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] Abdulwahid as one of the main actors in the modern history of political parties in colonial Tanganyika referred to the association as a political party (1951).[10]
Among writers and scholars who have analysed the African Association, it is only Nyerere and Hatch who have shifted their positions.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] Nyerere, writing to Edward Twining the Governor of Tanganyika on 10 th August, 1953, referred to TAA as a political party.[11]
Nyerere has for a very long time maintained this view which has appeared in all his subsequent writings and speeches on the African Association.[12]
But recently he qualified his earlier statements on the subject referring to the association as a ‘political party without a political constitution'. Hatch (1976) refers to the association in one place as a social organisation [13] and as ‘a serious political party' in another. [14] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] John Kabudi has referred to the Association as a ‘private civil organisation of a nationalistic character'.[15]
It is worth noting that even the pioneers of the organisation are not referred to as politicians. Kaniki, for lack of an appropriate word with which to refer to the pioneers, gave them quotation marks:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] Nyerere, hitherto almost unknown to the majority of ''politicians'' in Tanganyika, was then schoolmaster at St. Francis' Secondary School, Pugu, near Dar es Salaam, and he had been elected Territorial President the previous year. [16] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] Iliffe (1968)[17] indicated that the written history of TANU was incomplete and went further in his analysis of the association perceiving its direction and membership as being political.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[1] Kivukoni Ideological College, Historia ya Chama Cha TANU 1954-1977,Dar es Salaam, 1981.
[2] Oscar Kambona to Baldwin Rogers, 18 th October, 1955 Party Archives, Fabian Colonial Bureau File No.202.
[3] Ulotu A. Ulotu, Historia ya TANU, (1971) p. 11.
[4] Julius Nyerere, Freedom and Unity, Dar es Salaam, 1966, p. 38.
[5] Kirilo Japhet and Earle Seaton, The Meru Land Case, Nairobi, 1966, p.16.
[6] John Hatch, Two African Statesmen, London 1976, p.17.
[7] M.H.Y. Kaniki, TANU, ‘The Party of Independence and National Consolidation' in G. Ruhumbika (ed) Towards Ujamaa, Twenty Years of TANU Leadership, Nairobi, 1974, pp.1-2.
[8] Julius K. Nyerere, Tanganyika African Association, to Governor Edward Twining, 10 th August, 1953. Sykes' Papers.
[9] H.A.K. Mwenegoha, Mwalimu Julius Kambarage Nyerere, Nairobi, 1976, p. 5.
[10] Secretary Tanganyika African Association to Chairman and members of the African Association 7 th January, 1951. Sykes' Papers.
[11] Julius K. Nyerere President Tanganyika African Association to Governor Edward Twining, 10 th August, 1953. Sykes' Papers.
[12] Nyerere, op. cit. p. 38.
[13] Hatch, op. cit. p.17.
[14] Ibid. p. 91
[15] John Kabudi, ‘The Party System and Socialism in Tanzania' (1986 Seminar Paper).
[16] Kaniki, op. cit. Also see Uamuzi wa Busara, Idara ya Habari ya Chama, p. 2.
[17] John Iliffe, ‘The Role of the African Association in the Formation and Realization of Territorial Consciousness in Tanzania'. Mimeo. University of East Africa Social Sciences Conference, 1968, p. 24.
Ritz
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Nguruvi3,
Kwa nini kila sehemu yenye Waislam wengi lazima mponde hivi kwa nini mna chuki na Waislam ndugu yangu hebu angalia chini hivyo vyuo vya Mombasa.
1) Technical University of Mombasa
2) Mombasa Campus- Kenyatta University
3) Daystar University
4) Polytechnic University
5) Mombasa Campus- Nairobi University
6) Mombasa Campus- Moi University
Kwa uchache tu nimekutajia vyuo vikuu vya Mombasa haya tuwekee hivyo vya Kilwa.
Labda nikufahamishe hata Dar es Salaam hawezi kuifikia Mombosa kihelimu.
Kwa nini kila sehemu yenye Waislam wengi lazima mponde hivi kwa nini mna chuki na Waislam ndugu yangu hebu angalia chini hivyo vyuo vya Mombasa.
1) Technical University of Mombasa
2) Mombasa Campus- Kenyatta University
3) Daystar University
4) Polytechnic University
5) Mombasa Campus- Nairobi University
6) Mombasa Campus- Moi University
Kwa uchache tu nimekutajia vyuo vikuu vya Mombasa haya tuwekee hivyo vya Kilwa.
Labda nikufahamishe hata Dar es Salaam hawezi kuifikia Mombosa kihelimu.
Last edited by a moderator:
Nguruvi3
Platinum Member
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OK, kama ni hivyo basi unatusaidia kujibu swali la malalamiko la watu wa Mombasa kuwa wanaonewa kielimu kama anavyolalamika Mohamed.
Kitu kimoja ukumbuke uwepo wa vyuo hauna maana ya watumiaji kuwa wanafunzi.
Umetaja hivyo vyuo, je, umekwenda Malindi na Cost na kujionea hali ilivyo?
Ritz, hakuna chuki yoyote kinachofanyika ni kutafuta chanzo cha tatizo na kulishughulikia na si kuorodhesha madai yasiyosimama kwa miguu kama Mohamed anavyowaaminisha.
Ninapoongelea Kilwa, nina maana pana sana. Kilwa ilipaswa iwe Dar au Arusha ya TZ, kwanini wapo hapo walipo?
Kuna dhulma gani kiasi cha watoto kukimbia na sekondari kufungwa?
Hivi hapo kweli huoni tatizo Ritz! kwanini tuondoe jicho hapo na kuangalia maandishi ya mwaka 1968 yasiyo na ushahidi bali riwaya mwanana iliyosheheni chuki na kila aina ya ubazazi!
zomba
JF-Expert Member
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Na ndiyo maana kanisa likampa uwenye heri? Au siyo?
zomba
JF-Expert Member
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Nyerere na kanisa katoliki.
zomba
JF-Expert Member
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Huyo hana hoja ana viroja, ya historia iliyowaumiza roho zao iliyoandikwa na Mohamed Said yamemshinda sasa anarukia Mombasa.
Muulize taasisi ipi ya kanisa iliingiliwa na nyerere na kufunguwa kama alivyofanya kwa EAMWS?
Tazama kama atajibu.
Mzee Mohamed,
Kumbuka pia kuwa pride leads to a fall. Have some humility!
Mohamed Said
JF-Expert Member
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Wanajamvi nami nakuombeni msome hapo juu bold na hapa chini bold.
Kaniki ftnote 16 kasema Nyerere hakuwa anajulikana.
Lakini kuna raha katika hili bandiko kuna vitu vya kuhangaisha akili ya mtu maana Abdu Sykes
yeye akiiona TAA kama chama cha siasa toka 1950.
Aliowakaribisha katika chama wakaona vinginevyo.
Ila kichekesho hizo nyaraka zao za chama badala ya kuwa ofisi ya TANU Abdu anazo nyumbani
kwake Stanley Street.
Hii kheri kubwa ndiyo leo zikajanifikia mimi.
Zingekuwa New Street zishatiwa moto:
[TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] A team of party historians, commissioned by the Party-Chama Cha Mapinduzi (CCM) to research and write an official history of TANU, did not even mention Abdulwahids name in the entire book.[1]
The dominant school of thought in the book is the assertion that before the emergence of Julius Nyerere in April 1953, when he was elected TAA President, the African Association leadership did not articulate any concrete political thought.
This premise has denied many patriots a place of honour in the political history of Tanzania and also eroded the status of the Association as a political movement. Local historians and post-independence party bureaucrats do not want to credit the African Association with a political identity. Kambona referred to the African Association as a debating society:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] ''It is just a little over one year since the inception of the Tanganyika African National Union and during this period it has grown from strength to strength, sometimes in the teeth of great opposition. As you are well aware it superseded the former Tanganyika African Association which was little more than a debating society.''[2]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"]
Ulotu has referred to the organisation as a welfare association.[3] Others have referred to the Association as a social organisation: Nyerere (1966),[4] Japhet and Seaton (1966),[5] John Hatch (1976).[6]
In other places it is referred to as a semi-protest movement: Kaniki (1974),[7] as a semi-political movement: Nyerere (1953).[8]
Julius Nyerere appearing in an oral hearing at the Trusteeship Council at the United Nations, New York, on 7 th March, 1955, shifted his position and referred to the Association as a semi-political movement:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"]
''The Tanganyika African National Union is, in one sense, a new organisation, but in another it is an old organisation. It was taken over from what was formerly called the Tanganyika African Association, which was founded in 1929, largely as a social organisation. The Tanganyika African National Union, which took over from the African Association about ten months ago, is a new organisation in the sense that it is a political organisation, where as the former was semi-political.''
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] Other scholars have reduced the association to the level of club: Mwenegoha(1976) writes: In 1954, after 25 years of inertia, Nyerere remodelled TAA from a social club into a formidable political organisation called the Tanganyika African National Union. [9]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] Abdulwahid as one of the main actors in the modern history of political parties in colonial Tanganyika referred to the association as a political party (1951).[10]
Among writers and scholars who have analysed the African Association, it is only Nyerere and Hatch who have shifted their positions.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] Nyerere, writing to Edward Twining the Governor of Tanganyika on 10 th August, 1953, referred to TAA as a political party.[11]
Nyerere has for a very long time maintained this view which has appeared in all his subsequent writings and speeches on the African Association.[12]
But recently he qualified his earlier statements on the subject referring to the association as a political party without a political constitution.
Hatch (1976) refers to the association in one place as a social organisation [13] and as a serious political party in another. [14]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] John Kabudi has referred to the Association as a private civil organisation of a nationalistic character.[15]
It is worth noting that even the pioneers of the organisation are not referred to as politicians. Kaniki, for lack of an appropriate word with which to refer to the pioneers, gave them quotation marks:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] ''Nyerere, hitherto almost unknown to the majority of politicians in Tanganyika, was then schoolmaster at St. Francis Secondary School, Pugu, near Dar es Salaam, and he had been elected Territorial President the previous year.'' [16]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] Iliffe (1968)[17] indicated that the written history of TANU was incomplete and went further in his analysis of the association perceiving its direction and membership as being political.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[1] Kivukoni Ideological College, Historia ya Chama Cha TANU 1954-1977,Dar es Salaam, 1981.
[2] Oscar Kambona to Baldwin Rogers, 18 th October, 1955 Party Archives, Fabian Colonial Bureau File No.202.
[3] Ulotu A. Ulotu, Historia ya TANU, (1971) p. 11.
[4] Julius Nyerere, Freedom and Unity, Dar es Salaam, 1966, p. 38.
[5] Kirilo Japhet and Earle Seaton, The Meru Land Case, Nairobi, 1966, p.16.
[6] John Hatch, Two African Statesmen, London 1976, p.17.
[7] M.H.Y. Kaniki, TANU, The Party of Independence and National Consolidation in G. Ruhumbika(ed) Towards Ujamaa, Twenty Years of TANU Leadership, Nairobi, 1974, pp.1-2.
[8] Julius K. Nyerere, Tanganyika African Association, to Governor Edward Twining, 10 th August,1953. Sykes' Papers.
[9] H.A.K. Mwenegoha, Mwalimu Julius Kambarage Nyerere, Nairobi, 1976, p. 5.
[10] Secretary Tanganyika African Association to Chairman and members of the African Association 7 th January, 1951. Sykes' Papers.
[11] Julius K. Nyerere President Tanganyika African Association to Governor Edward Twining, 10 th August, 1953. Sykes' Papers.
[12] Nyerere, op. cit. p. 38.
[13] Hatch, op. cit. p.17.
[14] Ibid. p. 91
[15] John Kabudi, The Party System and Socialism in Tanzania (1986 Seminar Paper).
[16] Kaniki, op. cit. Also see Uamuzi wa Busara, Idara ya Habari ya Chama, p. 2.
[17] John Iliffe, The Role of the African Association in the Formation and Realization of Territorial Consciousness in Tanzania. Mimeo. University of East Africa Social Sciences Conference, 1968, p.24.
Mohamed Said
JF-Expert Member
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Jasusi,
Hatufahamiani.
Siwezi kujisemea.
Lakini mimi si mtu wa kumwachia mtu anikalie kichwani.
Si katika mafunzo, malezi na makuzi yetu.
Ikiwa umefuatilia ni kuwa awali nilikuwa mtaratibu hadi
nilipoaga.
Nilipoona adabu yangu inavunjwa ndipo nikarejea na lugha
nimebadili...
Nimetaka wanifahamu.
Hilo basi ili tuheshimiane.
Wewe mwenyewe ulipata kunambia mimi najipendekeza kwa akina
Sykes.
Nikakujibu mama yake Kleist na mama yangu walikuwa marafiki.
Babu yake Kleist na babu yangu walikuwa marafiki.
Baba yake Kleist na baba yangu walikuwa marafiki na wamesoma
darasa moja Al Jamiatul Islamiyya Muslim School...
Jasusi kwako wewe huwezi hata sikumoja kuelewa ''humiliation''
tunazopitia sisi Waislam nchi hii.
Ni mfano wa Wanegro wakati wa ''civil rights movement.''
Usidhanie mimi hapa napoteza wakati.
Hapana nasema ninayosema kutaka serikali ijue hisia za Waislam.
Tumestahamili sana.
Lakini kwa kuwa ndugu yangu umenishika mkono basi nitatulia Insha Allah.
Gwalihenzi
JF-Expert Member
- Oct 21, 2011
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Kilio cha samaki!
Mohamed,
What is the point? Hata kama kuna mtu ameunga mkono hoja yako kuwa Nyerere alikuwa hajulikani wakati huo, lakini ukweli ni kwamba alipouchukua uongozi wa TANU alifanya kazi ambayo hata wazee wako hawakuweza kuifikia--kuisambaza TANU kwenye pembe au kona zote za Tanganyika. Ngoja na mimi niwamegee kipande kutoka kitabu cha Judith Listowell:
" In the north of Tanganyika, Nyerere made a great impression. Lucy Lameck, the first woman to become a junior minister in Tanganyika, was present when he addressed her tribe, the Chagga:
I had met Julius in Dar-es-Salaam in 1953 [Lucy told the author]. Long before that I had felt that, in order to be effective in a hospital, or a school, or an office, I had to turn to politics. To obtain equal treatment was part of a much larger problem, the problem of existence under a colonial government... At this time we Chaggs had a paramount Chief called Tom Marealle, an arrogant man who made life very difficult for all of us who did not approve of his politics. When Twining offered me a scholarship to England, Marealle turned it down. I would rather not tell you why. I have never cried so much in my life. By then TANU was in existence and I pinned all my hope on it.
In October 1954 Julius Nyerere came to Moshi and held meetings. At one of them I enrolled my father, my mother, my aunt and my two sisters. Soon after that I was elected representative of the district. On his return from the Trusteeship Council meeting, Julius came north again and held two meetings: one in Machame and the other in Moshi. I went to both and witnessed the marvellous effect he had on my people. Now we TANU enthusiasts began to campaign in earnest.....We told people about the need for education and how little the British had done about it. We talked about the land shortage, and the injustice of having large areas not permitted to be used. We told them that Tanganyika was our country and that we were going to run it in our way. We told them that TANU, headed by Julius, would lead us to independence."
Hiyo ndiyo kazi aliyoifanya Julius Nyerere mbali na wazee wako kuanzisha TAA. Hiyo ndiyo sababu Julius Nyerere stands above the rest, including above your Gerezani TANU founders. Kesho nitawaletea kisha cha Austin Shaba na jinsi alivyomsaidia Nyerere katika Southern Highlands. Taking the baton from your Gerezani wazee, Nyerere became a trailblazer spreading the fires of independence in all corners of Tanzania.
Zomba ,Jisomee mwenye uliyoyaandika na niliyokujibu labda utajishtukia:
By Jasusi
Yaani Begin ndiye Moshe Dayan? Anayehitaji darasa ni wewe.
Uzuri wa JF kama moderators hawajachakachuwa kila kitu kinakuwapo, soma ulichoandika na nilivyokujibu na kukupa darsa:
Uliandika hivi:
By Jasusi
Arafat alikutana Camp David wakati wa Bill Clinton ambaye aliingia mamlakani 1988. Hakukuwa na mkutano Camp David enzi za Menachem Begin.
Nikakupa hint:
By zomba
Jimmy Cater?
Hukunielewa kuwa nilikuwa nakusaidia kiuungwana, ndio maana nilikuwekea jina tu la Jimmy Cater bila maelezo, ili urejeshe kumbukumbu zako, ukajibu bila kufikiri:
By Jasusi
Hata wakati wa Jimmy Carter haikuwa Moshe Dayan. Dayan alikuwa waziri wa ulinzi. Arafat alikuthttps://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-siasa/383235-uchochezi-wa-mohamedi-said-na-dhihaka-kwa-wapigania-uhuru-wa-tanganyika-na-zanzibar-160.html#post5579623ana na waziri mkuu wa Israel.
Nikakupa darsa baada ya kuona kuwa kumbe huelewi unachokiandika na hata unaposaidiwa kwa kupewa hint bado unajifanya mjanja:
By zomba
Hiyo niliyokuwekea nyekundu si sahihi na usipotoshe wanaopitia hii mijadala. Moshe Dayan alikuwa Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje wakati wa Jimmy Cater na si Waziri wa ulinzi, Jimmy Cater mwaka 1978 waliposaini mkataba na Anwar Saadat na Menachem Begin, Moshe Dayan alikuwa kiungo muhimu cha kuandika mapatano hayo.
Menachem Begin, Jimmy Carter and Anwar Sadat at Camp David, 1978
In 1977, despite having been re-elected to the Knesset for the Alignment, he accepted the offer to become Foreign Minister in the new Likud government led by Menachem Begin. He was expelled from the Alignment, as a result and sat as an independent MK. As foreign minister in Begin's government, he was instrumental in drawing up the Camp David Accords, a peace agreement with Egypt. Dayan resigned his post in October 1979,
Nikakuta kwingine tena ulianza kupotosha kwa hili:
By Jasusi
Arafat alikutana Camp David wakati wa Bill Clinton ambaye aliingia mamlakani 1988. Hakukuwa na mkutano Camp David enzi za Menachem Begin.
Nikaamuwa nikupe darsa lingine kwa kuwa huelewi unachokisema:
By zomba
Usipotoshe wana JF. Menachem Begin ndiye alisaini mkataba wa kwanza wa maridhiano baina yake na Anwar Saadat mwaka 1979 wakati wa Jimmy Cater (akiwa kinara wa mkataba huo). Nimeweka na picha. Na makubaliano hayo yaliyoanzia Camp David 1978 (ndiyo yalipelekea Anwar Sadat na Menachem Begin kupewa kwa pamoja tuzo ya Nobel mwaka 1978) na kufikia kilele na kusainiwa na wote watatu White House mwaka 1979 na ndiyo pia yalichochea Jimmy Cater kupewa tuzo ya Nobel mwaka 2002.
President Jimmy Carter, center, with Egyptian President Sadat, left, and Israeli Prime Minister Begin, right, during a signing ceremony for the Camp David Peace Accords at the White House in 1979. Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002 for his humanitarian efforts and success in bringing Egypt and Israel to the peace table in 1979. mk/mk/UPI
Read more: Egyptian candidate says Camp David 'dead' - UPI.com
Sasa unarusha nini? vitu viko kinagaubaga.
Naona mlishazoea kuobsfucate. Ritz alisema Arafat alikutana na Moshe Dayan Camp David. All I said there was no such meeting. Wewe ukaleta za Menachem Begina kukutana na Anwar Sadat. Where does Arafat come in here? Is Sadat Arafat? Is Egyptian peace treaty equal to Moshe Dayan meeting with Arafat at Camp David? Come on? Mbona Ritz mwenyewe amekaa kimya baada ya kutambua aliboronga? Come on!
Nguruvi3
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Watch tower
Nguruvi3
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Mohamed, TAA kama political party ulishawahi kuona katiba yake?
Mohamed Said
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