Shekh M. Said,
Hapo kwenye Red! umenikumbusha Sheikh maarufu sana huyu miaka ya 80! jee, bado yuko hai? si alikuwa Serikalini miaka ya nyuma?
Ritz,
Hebu soma hapo chini jibu lako lipo hapo labda kama utataka ziada:
When the Tanganyika African Association (TAA), TANU's predecessor, held a secret meeting to collect donations to send Germano Pacha to Dar es Salaam to attend the TANU founding conference in 1954, the highest contribution, which was twenty shillings, came from my grandfather, Salum Abdallah.
Germano Pacha was then TAA's Provincial Secretary Western Province.
That meeting was attended by the notables of Tabora including school teachers, Abubakar Mwilima, Harub Said and George Magembe.
These men came to play very important roles during the struggle.
However, my grandfather fell out with President Julius Nyerere, as many were to do, and was detained by the government soon after independence under the 1962 Preventive Detention Act.
Makoye,
Serikali ina hofu ya kumjua nani anambagua nani.
Waislam tumelieleza tatizo hili miaka mingi...
Bado tunapuuzwa.
Shekh M. Said,
Hapo kwenye Red! umenikumbusha Sheikh maarufu sana huyu miaka ya 80! jee, bado yuko hai? si alikuwa Serikalini miaka ya nyuma?
Mara ya mwisho nilimuona hakiwa na Huthoman Matata kwenye munakasha wa Quran and Sciance miaka mingi imepita.Bi. Z,
Sheikh Mwilima amefariki miaka mingi sasa inazidi 15 na zaidi.
Sheikh Mwilima alipambana na Nyerere katika Halmashauri Kuu
ya CCM.
Alitaka kujua vipi Waislam wako nyuma katika nyanja zote na
akamwomba mwenyekiti alitazame tatizo hili kama alivyolitazama
tatizo la Wabarbaig, Wahadzabe na wanawake.
Amenihadithia mwenyewe.
Anasema ukumbi mzima ulikuwa kimyaaaaaa...
Wajumbe wanasikiliza mwenyekiti Nyerere atajibu nini.
Kwa kama dakika moja mbili...
Sheikh Abubakar Mwilima na Nyerere walitazamana kama majogoo
wanaotaka kupigana.
Nyerere akaahirisha kikao....
mohamed, tuacheni ushabiki! mkuu, hawa watu wote wanabaguana kwa sasa, tujiulize, mbona hii haikutokea kabla ya miaka ya kuanzia 1980?
Bi. Z,
Sheikh Mwilima amefariki miaka mingi sasa inazidi 15 na zaidi.
Sheikh Mwilima alipambana na Nyerere katika Halmashauri Kuu
ya CCM.
Alitaka kujua vipi Waislam wako nyuma katika nyanja zote na
akamwomba mwenyekiti alitazame tatizo hili kama alivyolitazama
tatizo la Wabarbaig, Wahadzabe na wanawake.
Amenihadithia mwenyewe.
Anasema ukumbi mzima ulikuwa kimyaaaaaa...
Wajumbe wanasikiliza mwenyekiti Nyerere atajibu nini.
Kwa kama dakika moja mbili...
Sheikh Abubakar Mwilima na Nyerere walitazamana kama majogoo
wanaotaka kupigana.
Nyerere akaahirisha kikao....
Bi. Z,
Sheikh Mwilima amefariki miaka mingi sasa inazidi 15 na zaidi.
Sheikh Mwilima alipambana na Nyerere katika Halmashauri Kuu
ya CCM.
Alitaka kujua vipi Waislam wako nyuma katika nyanja zote na
akamwomba mwenyekiti alitazame tatizo hili kama alivyolitazama
tatizo la Wabarbaig, Wahadzabe na wanawake.
Amenihadithia mwenyewe.
Anasema ukumbi mzima ulikuwa kimyaaaaaa...
Wajumbe wanasikiliza mwenyekiti Nyerere atajibu nini.
Kwa kama dakika moja mbili...
Sheikh Abubakar Mwilima na Nyerere walitazamana kama majogoo
wanaotaka kupigana.
Nyerere akaahirisha kikao....
sasa hizi
porojo,,, wote waliokuambia sasa marehemu! hakuna hata mmoja tunayeweza
kumuuliza.
ina maana hakuna kumbukumbu za mikutano ya TANU?
This thread is now "stuck" in this section for easier access and contribution.[/QUOTE
]
Well and good nimekuwa nikiuliza kila siku ni lini itakuwa stick-ed, By the way inaonekana itakuja kuwa kati thread ndefu kupita zote JF.
Naona Uislam unazungumzwa sana humu.
'
Sijui kwa nini, Ritz , zomba , Boko haram na wengine,hebu kutaneni na huyu jamaa, www.faithfreedom.org !
'
Naona mnataka kwenda kweny mjadala wa kutaka kupaka matope imani zingine zionekane zinatetea uhalifu.
'
Kwanini msizungumzie historia bila kupaka matope imani zingine?
Zomba, huna hoja hapa, unapiga makelele kama mtoto tu, ona aibu, mtu mzima wa umri wako hata kama elimu ilikupita kando bado unanafasi ya kutumia uzoefu kujadiri hoja na sio ushabiki huu wa kipumbavu.
zubeda, naomba mkumbushe na Biafra!Mbona umesahau na vita vilivyotokea Angola, Msumbiji, Eritrea, Norhern Ireland, Spain, Srilanka, Vita vikuu ya Kwanza na vya pili, Vietnam, nk! bila shaka hizi pia ni nchi za Kiislam!!!!!
Na hata Mgalatia Hitler alipowaua Mamilioni ya Wayahudi bila shaka hao nao walikuwa..........!
Mohamed hebu watendee haki watu wanaotufuatilia hapa,
Hivi Mwalimu aahirishe kikao baada ya swali hilo la Abubakar Mwilima?
Je ni kweli Mwalimu hakujibu kitu akabaki kumtazama tu Mwilima kama usemavyo majogoo watazamanavyo?
Nawashukuru Mods kwakuifanya kuwa thread maalumu, hilo litasaidia watanzania wengi kuujua uongo na uchonganishi wa huyu ndugu yetu Mohamed Said
WC,
Tuhuma za udini na kuwa Nyerere hakuiasisi TANU ilimuathiri
sana Prof. Haroub Othman.
Akamwendea Nyerere na kutaka kujua yeye anasemaje.
Prof. Othman alimwambia Nyerere ni lazima aandike maisha
yake ili ukweli uwe wazi, vinginevyo historia yake itachafuka.
Mimi nimeyasema haya wazi Nyerere akiwa hai.
Nimeyaandika haya toka 1988 wakati naandika na Africa Events.
Badala ya kunijibu magazeti yakawa yanakusanywa na kutiwa moto.
1998 ndipo nikatoa kitabu.
Sasa niko na nyie humu kwa jambo lile lile.
Nyinyi hamuwezi tena narudia hamuwezi.
Yote niliyosema ni kweli.
"Tanzania's founder president and father of the nation , the late Mwalimu Julius Kambarage Nyerere, died before his autobiography could begin.
Prof. Ahmed Mohiddin, a former academician, told the East African that three people himself, Prof Haroub Othman, now live in Liberia, and former ambassador Ferdinand Ruhinda one of mwalimu's confidants had earlier approached the late Mwalimu to seek his consent.
He had initially agreed, on that and Prof Othman was to meet him in August 12, 1999 so that we could work on strategy on how we were going to do it. I think he knew his disease was fatal.
Prof Mohiddin who describes Mwalimu as the last revolutionary, said it is sad that he departed without it.
Ambassador Ruhinda said in Dar, "We were going to sit with him whenever he had time, and write his own words and then he would go through the manuscript and correct it because we wanted it to be his own work. It is just bad that he departed before the project could take off"
He added "Actually we were just going to assist him to write, but not for us to write for him; there are so many books that have been written about him that we wanted one from himself.
The three writers who had worked on a framework for the Nyerere Autograph now have daunting task ahead. "We will have to reorganize ourselves and the work. But it will never be the same again."
Ndio maana sisi wengine tunamwambia mchochezi Mohamed Said aache kujaza kurasa za JF na ngano na kujinukuu mwenyewe, ajibu maswali anayoulizwa lakini akiamua kuwa muongo ajue kutunza kumbukumbu.Mohamed Said sijui mpaka lini utaendelea kupotosha ukweli kuhusu hili jambo, Nilishakueleza hili mjadala ule wa 2010/2011) na ukakiri huku ukiendelea kusisitiza eti msukumo mwingine ulitokana na hadithi zako. Haya narudia tena kukuelezea historia ya wazo la uandishi wa biografia ya Nyerere lilikujaje: This is an extract kutoka gazeti lile lile lilochapisha makala zako kwa wiki tatu mfululizo - The East African, October 26, 1999.
Bahati mbaya na Prof Othman akafariki pia.
Mzee Mohamed ni upotoshaji wa namna hii unaofanya baadhi ya members humu na watanzania kiujumla waone kwamba wewe una nia ovu, unataka kufitinisha jamii na kuleta mitafaruku isiyo na tija kwa "histohisia" , na lengo lako si jema hata kidogo. Unawezaje kuendelea kudanganya jamii mchana kweupee namna hiiii and not once Mohamed, not once. Sasa utaaminikaje na haya si mambo ya 1960's au enzi za African Association sijui 1930's. Kama nakumbuka vizuri MMM, Nguruvi na Mag3 walikubana utuambie kama umewahi kuwahoji Prof. Mohiddin na Ruhinda kuhusu uwepo wa hadithi zako kwenye maandalizi ya hiyo biographia jibu lake hujatoa mpaka leo. Halafu bila haya eti unasema yote uliyosema ni kweli!!!!
Mzee Said tafadhali uwe mkweli basi. Hoja yako nzima dhidi ya Baba wa Taifa imejengwa kwenye nadharia kuwa Nyerere alikuwa na chuki dhidi ya Uislamu na Waislamu na alifanya kila awezalo kuukandamiza Uislamu (dhulma). Umewaaminisha mashabiki wako kuwa Nyerere alikuwa mtumishi wa kanisa akitumikia kuujandamiza Uislamu na hawa wamekuamini. Sasa unageuka na kusema kuwa hilo siyo tatizo? Kuwa sasa tatizo ni historia?
Nyerere alisema nini dhidi ya Uislamu, Waislamu au Mtume Mohammed kiasi cha kumfanya awe adui wa Waislamu? Au alitoa agizo gani lililowalenga Waislamu pekee yao na kutishia dini na ibada yao?
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[TD] Betrayal of Ideals
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[TD="width: 601"] On 5 th November, 1985, before he stepped down as president, Nyerere delivered an emotional speech to elders of Dar es Salaam. Most of them were former members of TANU-the townsman who supported Nyerere during the struggle for independence[1] Nyerere acknowledged the role of Muslims in those difficult days. Nyerere told his audience that the imbalances between Muslims and Christians which his government had inherited from the British were rectified under his rule:
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[TD="width: 601"] ''And they (Muslims) gave us chance through our education policies, to correct the imbalances which we have done. I am now in the happy position of sometimes not knowing whether a new member of Parliament, a Minister, or a Principal Secretary in our government ministries, is a Muslim or a Christian or neither unless their first name happens to give it away. And even that is not a sure guide in Tanzania, for we have Christians with Muslim names, Muslims with Christian names. This religious tolerance and freedom is your creation; what I have done is to speak up for those values on your behalf.'' [2]
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[TD="width: 601"] The speech was a farce. The truth is that three decades after independence Muslim are not better off than they were under colonialism. Sivalon has revealed that the Church has been able to create its own lobby which controls 75% of the seats in the parliament. Among these seats 70% are held by Catholics and the rest are divided among Muslims and Christian denominations.[3][/TD]
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[1] See footnote no.19.
[2] Daily News, 6 th November, 1985
[3] Sivalon, op.cit. p. 49.
Hivi nina hitaji mie kusherehesha hii yaani kutia maelezo?
Kusema ukweli binafsi nasikitika kuona vijana wa Kiislamu ambao wana nia njema kwelii na wanataka kujua sana wanaamini habari za Mohammed Said bila kuzihoji. Wanaamini si kwa sabbau wanajua ni kweli bali kwa sababu mzee anaonekana anautetea Uislamu na hivyo kumuuliza au kumkatalia kunawafanya wajihisi kama hawautendei haki Uislamu. Hii si sahihi kwa sababu ni mbinu ya 'sympathy' ambayo kwa kweli kwenye ukweli haina nafasi.
Maandishi ya mzee Said yanahitaji kuangaliwa kwa mwanga wa kisomi tu; hoja zake hata zingetolewa na mpagani bado zingeangaliwa kisomi. Ni jukumu la mtu yeyote mwenye akili kuuliza maswali mbele ya mtu anayetoa madai. Lengo si kumdhalilisha mtoa hoja bali kumsaidia mtoa hoja kuelezea vizuri hoja zake, kuzisahihisha na hata kuzitetea vizuri. Binafsi naamini Waislamu na hasa wale mashabiki wa Bw. Said waanze kumuuliza maswali ya akili ili kuupata ukweli vizuri.