Uraia Pacha Tanzania: Siasa ya Bernard Membe na hatma yake

[Gad ONEYA]

MBYZ
Mbona wengi mnaonekana hamtaki dual citizenship kwa chuki tu kwa watanzania wenzenu walio huko ngambo bila ya kua na sababu za msingi? toeni sababu ni vipi TZ itaathirika iwapo dual citizenship itakubaliwa

Wivu?
Tuko huko nje na hatuoni sababu ya kuwa mapopo! Unaposema ni wivu nadhani ni wewe ndo huelewi. Wewe unataka kuwa popo kwa sababu zipi? mbona hapo juu tumejaribu kuelezea sababu.:bowl:

 

[Hydrobenga]

Kwa nini uwe na DUAL CITIZENSHIP....?
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Ni Usaliti Kwa maoni yangu...it doesn't make sense

 

[MkamaP]

MKAMA
Acha kuchanganya mambo

Mambo yepi nayachanganya, nyie ndo mnachanganya kuna uraia na utaifa. mhamiaji yeyote anakuwa na moja kati hizo mbili. Anayetimiza na kuwa na mbili ni mzawa, sasa ninyi bongo mnawanyang'anya wezenu utaifa na uraia. wakati mkijua kabisa utaifa huinyang'anywi.
Uraia unaweza chukuliwa mda wowote, lakini utaifa haukomi, wabongo walioko nje wanapigania kurudishiwa utaifa wao uliopekenywa.

 

[MkamaP]

Kwa nini uwe na DUAL CITIZENSHIP....?
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Ni Usaliti Kwa maoni yangu...it doesn't make sense

Msaliti ni nani kati ya yule aliye na uraia mmoja anakuuza wewe na unalilia njaa, analeta mijamaa inachimba madini na kumwaga sumu ndani ya maji mito ili wafe kwa wingi wanaozunguka maeneo hayo msije mkampigia kelele. Huyu huyu mwenye raia moja anachagua jamaa mwingine mwenye raia moja linaiba fwedha na kuzipeleka kuziweka u uswizi.

Mwenye raia mbili anapigana kiume pale uswiz ana grab indirectly zile fwedha zilizoletwa uswizi na fisadi lenye raia moja lilopewa dhamana na mwenye raia moja, kiasi fulani anazirudisha kwa kuzituma kwa western union kumsaidia yule aliyemwagiwa sumu kwenye mto aghalabu anunue maji ya kiloba.
Hivi ni nani msaliti kati ya hawa watatu?

 

[Hydrobenga]

Msaliti ni nani kati ya yule aliye na uraia mmoja anakuuza wewe na unalilia njaa, analeta mijamaa inachimba madini na kumwaga sumu ndani ya maji mito ili wafe kwa wingi wanaozunguka maeneo hayo msije mkampigia kelele. Huyu huyu mwenye raia moja anachagua jamaa mwingine mwenye raia moja linaiba fwedha na kuzipeleka kuziweka u uswizi.

Mwenye raia mbili anapigana kiume pale uswiz ana grab indirectly zile fwedha zilizoletwa uswizi na fisadi lenye raia moja lilopewa dhamana na mwenye raia moja, kiasi fulani anazirudisha kwa kuzituma kwa western union kumsaidia yule aliyemwagiwa sumu kwenye mto aghalabu anunue maji ya kiloba.
Hivi ni nani msaliti kati ya hawa watatu?

Kwa hiyo ufumbuzi wa matatizo uliyoyaelezea Hapo juu ni KUA NA DUAL CITIZENSHIP ?

 

[MkamaP]

Kwa hiyo ufumbuzi wa matatizo uliyoyaelezea Hapo juu ni KUA NA DUAL CITIZENSHIP ?

Ndiyo, on one hand, ya kwamba, sina shaka unafahamu msemo wa darasa la tano ya kwamba chembe na chembe mkate hua.
On the other hand, mapingamizi yenu yote ni baseless maana wanao root hiyo nchi ni watu wa raia moja, hawa, ruthless people are constantly sending their own people to hell.
Wanachokipigania hawa watu ni kurudisha utaifa wao, maana hawa watu wamenyanganywa haki yao ya msingi, yani nationality yao na sio citizenship, lakini ujue pia unapompa mtu citizenship yake na akawa amezaliwa hapo by default anapata nationality yake. Ila ambaye hakuzaliwa hapo atakuwa na citizenship na sio nationality.
Umenipata kiongozi?

 

[Hydrobenga]

Ndiyo, on one hand, ya kwamba, sina shaka unafahamu msemo wa darasa la tano ya kwamba chembe na chembe mkate hua.
On the other hand, mapingamizi yenu yote ni baseless maana wanao root hiyo nchi ni watu wa raia moja, hawa, ruthless people are constantly sending their own people to hell.
Wanachokipigania hawa watu ni kurudisha utaifa wao, maana hawa watu wamenyanganywa haki yao ya msingi, yani nationality yao na sio citizenship, lakini ujue pia unapompa mtu citizenship yake na akawa amezaliwa hapo by default anapata nationality yake. Ila ambaye hakuzaliwa hapo atakuwa na citizenship na sio nationality.
Umenipata kiongozi?

Nakubaliana na wewe ... as long wewe ni Mtanzania ,Hata uchukuwe Uraia wa nchi GANI..utaendelea kuwa na utaifa wa Tanzania....
Nnachokataa Mtu kuwa Na DUAL CITIZENSHIP...Kwa nini ufanye hivyo ?
Hakuna mtu atakayeweza kukunyang'anya UTAIFA Wako..ndio maana tunasikia mtu anakuwa Addressed as AMERICAN OF INDIAN ORIGIN,TANZANIAN OF CHINEES ORIGIN au AMERICAN OF TANZANIAN ORIGIN.

Kwa hiyo utaifa wako Huwezi kunyang'nywa na Mtuu

 

[MkamaP]

Nakubaliana na wewe ... as long wewe ni Mtanzania ,Hata uchukuwe Uraia wa nchi GANI..utaendelea kuwa na utaifa wa Tanzania....
Nnachokataa Mtu kuwa Na DUAL CITIZENSHIP...Kwa nini ufanye hivyo ?
Hakuna mtu atakayeweza kukunyang'anya UTAIFA Wako..ndio maana tunasikia mtu anakuwa Addressed as AMERICAN OF INDIAN ORIGIN,TANZANIAN OF CHINEES ORIGIN au AMERICAN OF TANZANIAN ORIGIN.

Kwa hiyo utaifa wako Huwezi kunyang'nywa na Mtuu

Unapopinga Dual tayari umepinga na Nationality by default kwa aliyezaliwa Tanzania. DUAL citizenship, ni kumwezesha mhusika kupata namna ya ku-move na kazi bora na kupata kujipenyeza kwenye system husika ili kuchota maujuzi. Sahizi ulaya huwezi pata kazi kama wewe huna citizenship na ukipata unapata kwa manati sana. Unless wewe ni professa bingwa.

Watu wanataka DUAL ili huko waliko wapate citizenship na wapate kazi nzuri ambazo ziko inline na professional zao na wapate retun nzuri za kupeleka bongo.
Kupinga DUAL technically, unasema watanzania wote warudi Tanzania mujifungie kwenye box moja watanzania wote. Haya ni mawazo ya kijima.

 

[Kiranga]

The right to dual citizenship? What kind of right is this? Constitutional? Human? Legal? Or a mere wishful infatuation mightily touted as a "right"?

Do you understand the idea of a right and the fundaments of it's axiomatic rationale?

Don't get me wrong, I think Dual Citizenship is a matter of time and the more we delay it the more it will cost us. I have expressed views to the effect of dismissing the Westphalian model of a nation-state as outdated.

As much as I am a "world citizen" really, which makes "dual citizenship" parochial, I still have to question what kind of "right" this is?

And the whole idea of a right being a must is quirky if not outright archaic.

 

[Kamundu]

Naomba nitoe hoja ya msingi kuhusu ili swala.

1. Kuhusu ni upande gani upo wakati wa vita: Kama mimi naishi USA na nina uraia wa USA na Tanzania basi sitakuwa na raha hata kidogo maana ukweli ni kwamba naishi USA na ukweli mwingine ni kwamba ndugu zangu wanaishi Tanzania. Hivyo haina tofauti na mimi kama ningekuwa naishi USA bila uraia na kama USA ikivamia Tanzania leo hata kama mimi nina uraia USA tunaruhusiwa kupinga vita na kuna watu wengi tu wanaandamana wakati wa vita hivyo haitabadilisha kama una uraia au unaishi tu hapa.
2. Uraia wa nchi mbili: Kama mtu umezaliwa Tanzania au baba yako ni Mtanzania hakuna sababu ya msingi ya kuzuiwa kuwa na uraia wa nchi mbili hivyo hawa watu ambao ni watanzania ni tofauti na watu wanaokuja kufanya kazi na kuhamia. Mfano mimi nichukue uraia wa USA sasa na ni mtoto wa kwanza kwetu kuna mambo ya kimila, mirathi, nyumba na miradi ya familia ambayo nitapewa mimi kimila kama muangaliaji vilevile kuna vitu senstive kama makaburi ya wazee ambayo yako Tanzania kwa miaka zaidi ya mia huwezi kumwambia huyu mtu ategemee visa kuja Tanzania kwani huyu si mgeni!!! na ni tofauti na yule mtu aliyekuja Tanzania kutafuta tu. Sasa ikifikia wakati tunataka serikali ichukuwe nyumba za familia na mashamba yenye mila na makaburi kwa Mtanzania ambaye kwa kutafuta maisha imelazimika kuchukua uraia wa nchi nyingine si vizuri na hiyo italeta matatizo mengi sana. Kitu kingine ki kwamba hakuna Mtanzania anayeishi nje ambaye amezaliwa Tanzania au wazazi wamezaliwa Tanzania lakini hana ndugu Tanzania hivyo ni lazima tuangalie hii issue kwa makini badala ya kuweka ushabiki na ubinafsi.

 

[stugex]

The poor mind sets, always ready to embrace the negatives...

Kwanini unamtukana? au umeshindwa kumjibu kwa hoja?

 

[stugex]

The poor mind sets, always ready to embrace the negatives...

When it comes down to "allegiance", to whom will the person with multiple uraia be pledged? Dual citizenship will confer facilities and privileges without obligations. Apart from marginal economic and social benefits, it can create ambiguous loyalties among people holding it.
What status will you confer to aid donors that give a lot of handouts to our government if you view the magnitude of aid they give?
How could someone be a citizen of two countries at the same time? I bet it could be undermining the notion of nationhood especially to a nascent country like TZ.
Assume the US is engaging into war with your second country(probably your mother country) and you are living in the US, what will you do in this situation or you will make it the Arab style, suicide bomber, which in turn will result to negative repercussions with your community living the US.

Giving reasons of remittances back home as justification to conferring dual citizenship is too vague a definition of granting the status to make any credible conclusion about its establishment.

If allowed, the decision will be based on narrow short term motivations and should be opposed.

Mapenda nikujibu kwa kiswahili kama utaniruhusu.

1. Katika swala lako la vita kama vikitokea kati ya marekani na Tanzania, jibu lako ni kwamba vivyo vita haviwezi kutokea. Umeuliza "hypothetical queston" kwa hivyo hakuna jibu lake thabiti.

2. Kuhusu "allegiance" au "loyalty" nadhani unatakiwa uelewe kwamba kuna tofauti kati ya uraia na utaifa. Katika hivi viwili utaifa ni muhimu kuliko uraia. Mtanzania anayechukua uraia wa Marekani au Uingereza, utaifa wake unabakia kuwa utanzania. Kwa mfano, Zimbabwe: Wazungu wa Zimbabwe ni raia wa Zimbabwe lakini utaifa wao ni uingereza, "british nationals". Na ndiyo maana wao wanaweza kuingia na kutoka Uingereza kama wanavyotaka, lakini wazimbabwe weusi hawana haki hiyo. Hivyo basi, Watanzania wenye uraia wa Ulaya watakuwa "loyal" to Tanzania.

3. Hivi tunayozungumza, mimi nawajua watanzania kadhaa wenye pasipoti za Tanzania na nchi nyingine. Hili ni swala nyeti kwa sababu linawanufaisha Watanzania hawa. Serikali yetu kama ikiweza kuruhusu uraia wa nchi mbili na kuweka sheria ngumu kwa wageni (wazungu/waarabu n.k) wasiokuwa watanzania wasiweze kuupata uraia wa Tanzania; hapo uraia wa nchi mbili utawanufaisha Watanzania ambao tayari wameshautwaa uraia wa nchi zingine. Lakini kama Waingereza na Waarabu nao wakiweza kuutwaa uraia wa Tanzania, basi miaka ijayo vizazi vyetu watapigana na wazungu ndani ya Tanzania kama vile Zimbabwe au South Afrika.

 

[Tikerra]

Kwahiyo dual citizenship isikubaliwe, mkuu?

Kwangu mimi dual citizenship ni usaliti. Call a spade a spade. Kweli Tanzania tuna matatizo mengi, lakini mpaka mtu unaacha jamii yako na kwenda ku-contribute kwenye maendeleo ya jamii nyingine, inaonyesha kiasi gani usivyojali jamii yako and infact self centred. Furthermore mtu wa namna hii hana real commitment kwa nchi yake.

Anataka huku kukiwa kubaya aweze kukimbilia kule kuzuri.No we can't leave with opportunists, kama unaona huwezi kuwa raia mwaminifu wa Tanzania, please quit.Hakuna anayeweza kutumikia mabwana wawili,kwa kuwa atamwacha huyu na kuandamana na huyu.The government should be firm on this issue,no dual citizenship.

 

[Kibanga Ampiga Mkoloni]

Siungi mkono hili jambo.

 

[MkamaP]

Kwangu mimi dual citizenship ni usaliti. Call a spade a spade. Kweli Tanzania tuna matatizo mengi, lakini mpaka mtu unaacha jamii yako na kwenda ku-contribute kwenye maendeleo ya jamii nyingine, inaonyesha kiasi gani usivyojali jamii yako and infact self centred. Furthermore mtu wa namna hii hana real commitment kwa nchi yake.

Anataka huku kukiwa kubaya aweze kukimbilia kule kuzuri.No we can't leave with opportunists, kama unaona huwezi kuwa raia mwaminifu wa Tanzania, please quit.Hakuna anayeweza kutumikia mabwana wawili,kwa kuwa atamwacha huyu na kuandamana na huyu.

Kwahiyo kwa mawazo yako ni kuwa watanzania wote warudi waishi tanzania na wote wajifunike shuka moja, na pia unasema watanzania si ruhusa kuoa/kuolewa na watu za nchi zingine?

 

[Nyamanoro]

Do you think dual citizenship can create dual loyalties?

Hautatusaidia chochote huo uraia wa nchi mbili kwani watanzania wengi si wazarendo kwa nchi yao.Mifano mingi tu mambo mengi ya kitaifa yamekwama kutokana na ushabiki ukiwemo wa kisiasa. watanzania wako radhi kumkaribisha mgeni na kumpa kipande cha ardhi kwa fedha kidogo tu na si kwa mtanzania mwenzake,wageni wanaotoa ajira kwa watanzania wanaambiwa wawalipe mshahara kidogo hali inyosababisha wengi wa wageni hao kujenga dharau. Kwenye michezo mtanzania yuko radhi anunue jezi 100 za Man U na si za Simba au Yanga. Mwisho unafiki na uzandiki ni culture yetu hivyo kwa tabia hizo na nyingine nyingi nilizozisahau uraia wa nchi mbili ni bure . Pamoja na maaelezo marefu ya mtoa mada bado siungi mkono hata kidogo. Ni maoni yangu anyway.i

 

[Kibanga Ampiga Mkoloni]

SIUNGI MKONO NARUDIA TENA,

Labda labda tuige INDIA.

I

ndia will not give its citizens dual citizenship
There were strong rumours that the Indian government was going to allow its citizens to be the citizens of two countries but now it is extremely unlikely this will happen. There are too many security concerns. In fact it's not just Pakistan or China that India is wary of, there are groups in India (communist and to some extent the BJP) who do not trust the United States and they will never agree to this.
Overseas Citizenship (OCI)
To assuage its citizens abroad India has come out with the Overseas Citizenship (OCI) scheme. It gives the holder financial benefits and ease of travel…but it's important to remember that the OCI does not entitle one to an Indian passport. Some might call the OCI Indian citizenship but no way does it mean Indian nationality or real Indian citizenship. The OCI is simply a stamp on the existing foreign passport…in other words something akin to a life-long visa. Those eligible are Indian migrants from Independent India (and their children and grandchildren) who have acquired foreign citizenship…but not those who have acquired citizenship of Pakistan or Bangladesh or ever were the citizens of these countries. The OCI gives the following benefits:

• right to indefinitely visit, study or work in India
• right to own most types of property in India (excluding agricultural properties)
• Dispenses with the need to register with local police/immigration authorities

But what it does not give is:

• Right to vote
• Eligibility for government employment
• Unrestricted access to restricted/protected areas

(For more details on the OCI, please visit the links above and make inquiries with the Indian embassy as these are just brief details)
The Person of Indian Origin (PIO) Card
This is very similar to the OCI, and so are the eligibility criteria….if there is a difference in the eligibility criteria, I was not able to access this information. The main difference between the OCI and the PIO is that the PIO is temporary and lasts for 15 years from the date of issue. Also, PIO Card holders are usually required to register with police/immigration authorities if they stay more than 180 days.
The other benefits are similar…and as in the case of the OCI, holders of the POI have no political rights and cannot hold jobs in the government.
(For more details on the PIO, please visit the links above and make inquiries with the Indian embassy as these are just brief details)
Good or bad, no chance of dual citizenship for Indians
As of now Indians will have to be satisfied with the OCI or the PIO. It is bound to hurt those who desperately want to maintain a link with India by keeping their Indian nationality but at the same time do not want to forgo the benefits that their host country will offer if they become its citizens. And why should they? After all, they give their sweat and blood to that foreign country and should expect something in return…but well, for that they need to become citizens. And if they do that, they have to perforce sever their relationship with India…officially I mean.

 

[MkamaP]

Siungi mkono hili jambo.

Dunia ya leo usipounga mkono hilo jambo, maana yake unawataka watanzania wote warudi Tanzania na hawaruhusiwi kuoa/kuolewa na watu wa nchi nyingine, kimsingi unasema tujifinyange ktk box moja, natukitegemea maendeleo ya kutoka ktk hilo box.
Ngoja nikupe mfano, wewe ukiwa na sh milioni moja, ukaenda ktk kijiji fulani ukawakuta, Juma, Adam,Ramso na John. wakiwa na mazao yao na mifugo yao, ktk kijiji hicho, ukawapatia kila mmoja laki 2.5 na ukawaambia hakuna kutoka nje ya kijiji hicho kufanya biashara. Na kijijini humo wewe ndo pekee umeingiza ndani milioni moja, kabla ya hapo walikuwa wanafanya bidha-kwa-bidha. Basi wakaizungusha hiyo milioni moja huyu ananua mahindi kwa huyu, na yule ananunua mihogo kwa yule na huyu ananunua karanga kwa yule NK.NK.

Baada ya miaka 20 ukienda ktk kijiji hicho tena kufanya sensa ktk kijiji hicho, ya kwamba ili uweze kutambua ni kiasi gani cha fedha kimefikia ktk kijiji hicho je unategemea na matarajio yatakuwa kiasi gani?

 

[Tikerra]

Kwahiyo kwa mawazo yako ni kuwa watanzania wote warudi waishi tanzania na wote wajifunike shuka moja, na pia unasema watanzania si ruhusa kuoa/kuolewa na watu za nchi zingine?

Sijasema Watanzania wote walioko nje warudi nyumbani,lahasha.Ninalosema ni kwamba, kama unaona huko uliko ni kuzuri kuliko hapa nyumbani,basi chukua uraia wa huko,or else rudi nyumbani.Na kama wewe ni mwanamke Mtanzania na umekubali kuolewa na mgeni,basi chukua uraia wa nchi ya mumeo,forget about Tanzania.Ukipenda boga,penda na ua,

 

[timbilimu]

SIUNGI MKONO NARUDIA TENA,

Labda labda tuige INDIA.

I

ndia will not give its citizens dual citizenship
There were strong rumours that the Indian government was going to allow its citizens to be the citizens of two countries but now it is extremely unlikely this will happen. There are too many security concerns. In fact it’s not just Pakistan or China that India is wary of, there are groups in India (communist and to some extent the BJP) who do not trust the United States and they will never agree to this.
Overseas Citizenship (OCI)
To assuage its citizens abroad India has come out with the Overseas Citizenship (OCI) scheme. It gives the holder financial benefits and ease of travel…but it’s important to remember that the OCI does not entitle one to an Indian passport. Some might call the OCI Indian citizenship but no way does it mean Indian nationality or real Indian citizenship. The OCI is simply a stamp on the existing foreign passport…in other words something akin to a life-long visa. Those eligible are Indian migrants from Independent India (and their children and grandchildren) who have acquired foreign citizenship…but not those who have acquired citizenship of Pakistan or Bangladesh or ever were the citizens of these countries. The OCI gives the following benefits:

• right to indefinitely visit, study or work in India
• right to own most types of property in India (excluding agricultural properties)
• Dispenses with the need to register with local police/immigration authorities

But what it does not give is:

• Right to vote
• Eligibility for government employment
• Unrestricted access to restricted/protected areas

(For more details on the OCI, please visit the links above and make inquiries with the Indian embassy as these are just brief details)
The Person of Indian Origin (PIO) Card
This is very similar to the OCI, and so are the eligibility criteria….if there is a difference in the eligibility criteria, I was not able to access this information. The main difference between the OCI and the PIO is that the PIO is temporary and lasts for 15 years from the date of issue. Also, PIO Card holders are usually required to register with police/immigration authorities if they stay more than 180 days.
The other benefits are similar…and as in the case of the OCI, holders of the POI have no political rights and cannot hold jobs in the government.
(For more details on the PIO, please visit the links above and make inquiries with the Indian embassy as these are just brief details)
Good or bad, no chance of dual citizenship for Indians
As of now Indians will have to be satisfied with the OCI or the PIO. It is bound to hurt those who desperately want to maintain a link with India by keeping their Indian nationality but at the same time do not want to forgo the benefits that their host country will offer if they become its citizens. And why should they? After all, they give their sweat and blood to that foreign country and should expect something in return…but well, for that they need to become citizens. And if they do that, they have to perforce sever their relationship with India…officially I mean.

Kwa mazingira ya Tanzania inatufaa hiyo OCI.