Uwepo wa Mungu unadhihirika kwa alama zake na viumbe vyake

Uwepo wa Mungu unadhihirika kwa alama zake na viumbe vyake

Smotor said:
How uwepo wangu unathibitisha uwepo wa Mungu?
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Swali zuri. Nakujibu kwa swali, unakubali Kuna mwanzo yaani wa kwanza katika binadamu ? Huyu wa kwanza alitokeaje mpaka ukawepo wewe ? Je alitokana pasi na chochote au alijiumba yeye mwenyewe ?
 
Kiranga said:
Kama vilivyo complex hivi vyote vyenye high order hivi ulivyovitaja, bahari, jua, watu, wanyama, ni lazima viwe vimeumbwa na higher intelligence, basi complexity haiwezi kutokea bila kuumbwa na higher intelligence.

Sasa, hapo hapo linakuja swali, kwa kanuni hiyo hiyo ya kwamba kilicho complex hakiwezi kuwepo tu, ni lazima kiwe kimeumbwa, hata Mungu wako naye atahitaji
kuwa ameumbwa, na aliyemuumba naye atahitaji kuwa na muumba, hivyo hivyo, bila mwisho.

Kwa hiyo, ukisema kuwa bahari, jua, watu ni lazima vimeumbwa, kwa sababu complexity haiwezi kutokea tu, kimsingi hapo unasema Mungu hayupo, labda hujaelewa tu kwamba unajenga hoja kwamba Mungu hayupo.

Ni hivi.

Ama, hivi vitu complex ni lazima viwe vimeumbwa, ama si lazima.

Kama si lazima viwe vimeumbwa, hapo Mungu hahitajiki, kwa sababu kama ulivyosema, unatumia dhana ya kwamba Mungu kaumba kudhihirisha Mungu yupo. Kama vitu hivi si lazima viwe vimeumbwa, basi Mungu hahitajiki.

Kama ni lazima viwe vimeumbwa, basi huyo unayemuita Mungu naye ni lazima awe kaumbwa, na kama ni lazima awe kaumbwa, huyo si Mungu.

Sijui hata kama una uwezo wa kuelewa hizi hoja.
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Nimekuelewa vizuri sanaa mkuu.. Lakini ukiingia deeply kufikiria uumbaji wa vyote zikiwemo sayari na sisi viumbe ambao ni complex(Bin adam) lazima ukose majibu.. Ndio maana tunarudi kusema God creates all things.. Pia nikija kwenye ulimwengu wa shetani ambao upo against na mambo ya mungu yaani wachawi,waganga, mapepo nk nakuja kuamini Mungu Yupo
 
Kiranga said:
Mimi sijui watu tumetoka wapi.

Lakini sijawahi kusema najua watu wametoka wapi.

Wewe unasema Mungu yupo, lakini huwezi kuthibitisha yupo.

Na wewe ukikataa mimi kutumia hoja yoyote ya kisayansi, usitumie JF. JF ni app iliyotengenezwa kisayansi, internet ni teknolojia iliyotokana na sayansi.

Toka kwenye hii teknolojia ya sayansi, tengeneza yako ya mabua kwa imani ya Mungu, halafu nialike huko tujadiliane.

Maana hutaki sayansi, wakati unaitumia sayansi hapa. Unafiki mtupu.

Unakuwa unasema "Baniani mbaya, kiatu chake dawa".

Pia, kama hutaki mantiki, usiandike kwa kutumia lugha wala alphabet. Vyote hivyo vinafuata mantiki ya lugha na sheria za uandishi.

Zote zina mantiki.

Ondoa mantiki katika lugha yako, acha kutumia internet ya sayansi, tengeneza vyako vya imani ya Mungu tu halafu fanya miujiza ya Mungu tuwasiliane huko.
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Umeona ulipokuja mm sijasema issue ni FAITH versus LOGIC.... NO NO NO..
Ninachojaribu kusema ni kwamba sio kila kitu ambacho ni real kinaweza jibiwa kwa mantiki/LOGIC mfano unaamini una AKILI lakini huwezi kudhibitisha hilo, na mengine mengi....

Sasa wewe unabisha alafu tukitaka majibu kutoka kwako huna hayo majibu unaweza ukawa very right lakini pia very USELESS, infact kwa watu wenye akili hupewi seat... Ndo maana sayansi kukataa theory ya creation ikaja majibu ya BIG BANG, ni ajabu kukataa bila kuwa na majibu... Katika vitu complex watu wanataka majibu....
 
Suhendra said:
Kuna jambo limenisukuma sana kuandika huu Uzi.

Mambo ambayo yanaendelea kuhusu uwepo wa mungu.

Kuna baadhi ya watu wa amini hakuna mungu nk.

Ni ingie kwenye point

Uwepo wa mungu una dhihirika kwa alama zake na viumbe vyake.

Hebu tutafakari kama hakuna mungu nani alieumba bahari, jua, mbingu, binadamu, wanyama hivi vitu vimetokea vipi kama hakuna alieviimba.

Leo hii hata ukimchukuwa mtoto mdogo wa miaka mitatu ukamuuliza nani kaumba mbingu atakujibu mungu.

Vipi mtu mzima mwenye akili timamu unashindwa kutambua hilo.

Yapo mambo mengi sana yana thibitisha uwepo wa mungu naweza kesha kuelezea kiufupi, Tufahamu mungu yupo na yeye ndo ametuumba sisi ili tumuabudu yeye tu.
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Pamoja kwamba nami ninaamini Mungu yupo lakini hoja zako ni dhaifu sana kuwabadirisha wale wasioamini uwepo wa Mungu. You need to go deep into OBSERVATION OF IT.
 
SimbaMpole123 said:
Uwongo...serikali inatumia dini kutawala watu... Jiulize kwa Nini sakata la bandari, ushoga, n.k yote yalihubiriwa makanisani na misikitini...bila dini hii nchi ni ngumu sana kumobilize watu kufata agenda fulani..
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Kwanini hiyo Serikali inapinga udini?
 
Kiranga said:
Binadamu hayupo, hiyo ni hadithi ya kuhusu Bin Adam, ambayo inasema Adam alikuwa mtu wa kwanza aliumbwa na Mungu.

Mungu hayupo, Adam hakuwepo, na bin adam ni hadithi, hayupo.

Soma hapa uelewe zaidi kama unajua Kiingereza.

How to Read the Bible | James Kugel

In How to Read the Bible, Harvard professor James Kugel leads the reader chapter by chapter through the "quiet revolution" of recent biblical scholarship, showing time and again how radically the interpretations of today's researchers differ from what people have always thought. The story of...
www.jameskugel.com www.jameskugel.com

How to Read the Bible​

A Guide to Scripture, Then and Now​

READ AN EXCERPT
Scholars from different fields have joined forces to reexamine every aspect of the Hebrew Bible. Their research, carried out in universities and seminaries in Europe and America, has revolutionized our understanding of almost every chapter and verse. But have they killed the Bible in the process?

In How to Read the Bible, Harvard professor James Kugel leads the reader chapter by chapter through the “quiet revolution” of recent biblical scholarship, showing time and again how radically the interpretations of today’s researchers differ from what people have always thought. The story of Adam and Eve, it turns out, was not originally about the “Fall of Man,” but about the move from a primitive, hunter-gatherer society to a settled, agricultural one. As for the stories of Cain and Abel, Abraham and Sarah, and Jacob and Esau, these narratives were not, at their origin, about individual people at all but, rather, explanations of some feature of Israelite society as it existed centuries after these figures were said to have lived. Dinah was never raped — her story was created by an editor to solve a certain problem in Genesis. In the earliest version of the Exodus story, Moses probably did not divide the Red Sea in half; instead, the Egyptians perished in a storm at sea. Whatever the original Ten Commandments might have been, scholars are quite sure they were different from the ones we have today. What’s more, the people long supposed to have written various books of the Bible were not, in the current consensus, their real authors: David did not write the Psalms, Solomon did not write Proverbs or Ecclesiastes; indeed, there is scarcely a book in the Bible that is not the product of different, anonymous authors and editors working in different periods.

Such findings pose a serious problem for adherents of traditional, Bible-based faiths. Hiding from the discoveries of modern scholars seems dishonest, but accepting them means undermining much of the Bible’s reliability and authority as the word of God. What to do? In his search for a solution, Kugel leads the reader back to a group of ancient biblical interpreters who flourished at the end of the biblical period. Far from naïve, these interpreters consciously set out to depart from the original meaning of the Bible’s various stories, laws, and prophecies — and they, Kugel argues, hold the key to solving the dilemma of reading the Bible today.

How to Read the Bible is, quite simply, the best, most original book about the Bible in decades. It offers an unflinching, insider’s look at the work of today’s scholars, together with a sustained consideration of what the Bible was for most of its history — before the rise of modern scholarship. Readable, clear, often funny but deeply serious in its purpose, this is a book for Christians and Jews, believers and secularists alike. It offers nothing less than a whole new way of thinking about sacred Scripture.
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Ahsante Nimekuelewa mkuu. sasa hebu niambie sisi Tunaitwa akina nani. Na Tumetokea wapi according to Science?
 
Na huyo mungu yeye alitokea wapi? Acha upuuzi wewe usikute unawatoto na unawafundisha huu upuuzi . .....tusiwe wavivu wa kufikiri, wewe uliomba kuja huku duniani? Kama unaamini kwamba kabla haujaletwa huku ulikuwa kwa mungu wako, why akuchome moto? Kwann asikupe akili ambayo ingeweza kumkubali yeye tu? Kwanini alimuumba shetani? Kwanini aliumba dunia yenye uwezekano wa kuzini kuua,kuiba,kusema uongo,kulala njaa,kuulitaja jina lake bure,kukosa heshima kwa wazazi wake? ,kuuwawa,kuua nk!!!? Yeye anatofauti gani na binadamu alietengeneza gari, ambalo halina heshima? Kwamba linaweza kukugonga wewe ulielitengeneza,linaweza kuharbika then ulipeleke geriji au haujui gereji ya binadamu ni hospitali? , cha msingi mtuambie huyo mungu alitokea wapi? Hata kama alikuepo na ataendelea kuwepo basi tujue alikuepo duniani kutokea wapi?

Kukosa chanzo chetu isiwe sababu ya kuamini tu mungu yupo.

Yaani ukachomwe moto na mungu mwenye huruma,upendo,mkweli ,na mjuaji? Kwa kosa la kuzini , na hapo haujawahi kuomba kuzaliwa, au kutoa maoni kuhusu ulimwengu kuwepo ni sahihi?
 
Mr IQ said:
Nimekuelewa vizuri sanaa mkuu.. Lakini ukiingia deeply kufikiria uumbaji wa vyote zikiwemo sayari na sisi viumbe ambao ni complex(Bin adam) lazima ukose majibu.. Ndio maana tunarudi kusema God creates all things.. Pia nikija kwenye ulimwengu wa shetani ambao upo against na mambo ya mungu yaani wachawi,waganga, mapepo nk nakuja kuamini Mungu Yupo
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Kukosa majibu hakuthibitishi Mungu yupo, kukosa majibu kunathibitisha hatuna majibu tunatakiwa tuongeze uchunguzi kujua majibu ni nini.

Jibu la Mungu ni jibu la kizembe la mtu aliyekosa majibu halafu hataki kufanya kazi ya kupata majibu, anamaliza swali kwa jibu rahisi tu la Mungu.

Mungu hayupo, ukiangalia the problem of evil kimantiki, Mungu hayupo.

Kwa nini Mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote aumbe ulimwengu unaoweza kuwa na mabaya, shetani, wachawi, etc, wakati aliweza kuumba ulimwengu ambao hauna na hauwezi kuwa na mabaya, shetani, wachawi etc?

Mungu hayupo, shetani hayupo, hizo habari za Mungu na shetani ni stories za watu tu, ukizipima kimantiki unaona hilo wazi kabisa.

Tatizo watu hawataki kuangalia hizi habari kimantiki, wanaangalia kiimani na kimapokeo tu.
 
Maco marco said:
Umeona ulipokuja mm sijasema issue ni FAITH versus LOGIC.... NO NO NO..
Ninachojaribu kusema ni kwamba sio kila kitu ambacho ni real kinaweza jibiwa kwa mantiki/LOGIC mfano unaamini una AKILI lakini huwezi kudhibitisha hilo, na mengine mengi....

Sasa wewe unabisha alafu tukitaka majibu kutoka kwako huna hayo majibu unaweza ukawa very right lakini pia very USELESS, infact kwa watu wenye akili hupewi seat... Ndo maana sayansi kukataa theory ya creation ikaja majibu ya BIG BANG, ni ajabu kukataa bila kuwa na majibu... Katika vitu complex watu wanataka majibu....
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Akili ni nini? Na unajuaje hapa kuna akili na hapa hakuna akili bila kutumia logic?

Unajua ukishasema "unaamini una akiki lakini huwezi kuthibitisha hilo" ushatumia logic hapo?
 
MkataNgwala said:
Ahsante Nimekuelewa mkuu. sasa hebu niambie sisi Tunaitwa akina nani. Na Tumetokea wapi according to Science?
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Sisi ni watu. Kwa mujibu wa sayansi hatujaumbwa na Mungu.

Kwa zaidi, soma vitabu vya sayansi, mimi sitaki kujitoa kwenye hoja ya msingi kwamba Mungu hayupo, na hakuumba ulimwengu. Hiyo ndiyo hoja yangu.

Kuhusu tumetoka wapi, hilo ni somo refu sana ambalo mimi mwenyewe bado nasoma.

Unaweza kujua jibu fulani si sahihi, kabla ya kujua jibu sahihi ni lipi.

Ninachosema ni kwamba, jibu la Mungu si sahihi, tuliondoe, tufanye elimination, tuangalie kwingine.

Naweza kujua mwanamme mwenye miaka 30 leo hawezi kuwa na mama mzazi mwenye umri wa miezi 6 leo, bila hata ya kumjua mama mzazi wa huyo mwanamme ni nani.

Mimi ninachosema ni kwamba, mama mzazi wa huyu mwanamme mwenye miaka 30 si huyu binyi mwenye umri wa miezi 6 leo. Sijasema najua mama mzazi wa huyu mwanamme ni nani.

Ninachosema ni kwamba Mungu hayupo na ulimwengu haujaumbwa na Mungu, sijasema najua ulimwengu umeanzaje.

Naweza kujua jibu fulani si sahihi, kabla hata sijajua jibu sahihi ni lipi.

Tumeelewananhapo?
 
Kisai said:
Kwanza sahihisha maana yako ya imani. Hilo nakuachia.

Nikuthibitishie mara ngapi ? Nimekwambia kuwepo kwako wewe Kuna thibitisha ya kuwa Mungu yupo.

Kisha nikakuuliza kwako wewe uthibitisho ni nini ?
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Mkuu naona tuishie apa kwa sababu nimeshakuelewa wewe ni mtu wa aina gani akuna nitakalo jifunza kutoka kwako[emoji120]
 
Grace glory said:
Na huyo mungu yeye alitokea wapi? Acha upuuzi wewe usikute unawatoto na unawafundisha huu upuuzi . .....tusiwe wavivu wa kufikiri, wewe uliomba kuja huku duniani? Kama unaamini kwamba kabla haujaletwa huku ulikuwa kwa mungu wako, why akuchome moto? Kwann asikupe akili ambayo ingeweza kumkubali yeye tu? Kwanini alimuumba shetani? Kwanini aliumba dunia yenye uwezekano wa kuzini kuua,kuiba,kusema uongo,kulala njaa,kuulitaja jina lake bure,kukosa heshima kwa wazazi wake? ,kuuwawa,kuua nk!!!? Yeye anatofauti gani na binadamu alietengeneza gari, ambalo halina heshima? Kwamba linaweza kukugonga wewe ulielitengeneza,linaweza kuharbika then ulipeleke geriji au haujui gereji ya binadamu ni hospitali? , cha msingi mtuambie huyo mungu alitokea wapi? Hata kama alikuepo na ataendelea kuwepo basi tujue alikuepo duniani kutokea wapi?

Kukosa chanzo chetu isiwe sababu ya kuamini tu mungu yupo.

Yaani ukachomwe moto na mungu mwenye huruma,upendo,mkweli ,na mjuaji? Kwa kosa la kuzini , na hapo haujawahi kuomba kuzaliwa, au kutoa maoni kuhusu ulimwengu kuwepo ni sahihi?
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[emoji2957] tumeshtuka tunadanganywa sana
 
Kiranga said:
Sisi ni watu. Kwa mujibu wa sayansi hatujaumbwa na Mungu.

Kwa zaidi, soma vitabu vya sayansi, mimi sitaki kujitoa kwenye hoja ya msingi kwamba Mungu hayupo, na hakuumba ulimwengu. Hiyo ndiyo hoja yangu.

Kuhusu tumetoka wapi, hilo ni somo refu sana ambalo mimi mwenyewe bado nasoma.

Unaweza kujua jibu fulani si sahihi, kabla ya kujua jibu sahihi ni lipi.

Ninachosema ni kwamba, jibu la Mungu si sahihi, tuliondoe, tufanye elimination, tuangalie kwingine.

Naweza kujua mwanamme mwenye miaka 30 leo hawezi kuwa na mama mzazi mwenye umri wa miezi 6 leo, bila hata ya kumjua mama mzazi wa huyo mwanamme ni nani.

Mimi ninachosema ni kwamba, mama mzazi wa huyu mwanamme mwenye miaka 30 si huyu binyi mwenye umri wa miezi 6 leo. Sijasema najua mama mzazi wa huyu mwanamme ni nani.

Ninachosema ni kwamba Mungu hayupo na ulimwengu haujaumbwa na Mungu, sijasema najua ulimwengu umeanzaje.

Naweza kujua jibu fulani si sahihi, kabla hata sijajua jibu sahihi ni lipi.

Tumeelewananhapo?
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Sidhani ata kama wanasoma hizi hoja, au wanakimbilia kutoa tu majibu ya kiimani
 
Kiranga said:
Akili ni nini? Na unajuaje hapa kuna akili na hapa hakuna akili bila kutumia logic?

Unajua ukishasema "unaamini una akiki lakini huwezi kuthibitisha hilo" ushatumia logic hapo?
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Sasa tumia hiyo logic kudhibitisha kama una akili...
 
Maco marco said:
Sasa tumia hiyo logic kudhibitisha kama una akili...
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Akili ni nini? Wewe ndiye umeitaja akili, define akili.

Halafu, hata nikishindwa kuthibitisha nina hiyo akili, hilo halithibitishi Mungu yupo.

Ninaweza kusema kuwa mimi kushindwa kufanya chochote ninachotaka kufanya ni ushahidi kwamba Mungu muweza yote, mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote hayupo.

Angekuwepo Mungu huyo, viumbe wote wangeweza kufanya yote wanayotaka, na yale ambayo yangekuwa si mazuri, Mungu angewaziba wasiyajue na kuyataka.

Hivyo, mimi kutoweza kuthibitisha chochote ninachotaka kuthibitisha ni ushahidi kwamba Mungu muweza yote, mjuzi wa yote na mwenye upendo wote hayupo.

Unaelewa hoja yangu ni kwamba Mungu hayupo, hoja yangu si kwamba mimi nina akili?

Sasa mbona unaacha kujibu hoja yangu kwa kuthibitisha Mungu yupo, unanitaka nithibitishe akili, kitu ambacho jwanza mini sijawahi kusema nina akili, weee huja define akili ni nini, na hata nikishindwa kuthibitisha nina akili, hilo halithibitishi Mungu yupo.

Thibitisha Mungu yupo, acha kuleta hoja tofauti ambazo mimi hata sizisimamii, halafu ukanipachika kwa lazima na kunitaka nizithibitishe.

Thibitisha Mungu yupo.
 
Kiranga said:
Hiyo mtu hata haelewi umuhimu wa definition, ndiyo maana nimemuuliza akili ni nini kashindwa kutueleza.
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😂Ila mi nachokuambia reality ni kwamba kwa educated peers atheism inakuwa kitu normal, watu wengi ni passive Muslims/christians, watu wengi Wanaona uhuni wa ma fake pastors n sheikhs.. watu Wanaona problems za evil, instruction, errors n inconsistent revelations, watu Wanaona vyote, watu ambao bado wameshika dini ni wale watu uneducated au wale walikuwa indoctrinated Sana kuamini supernatural Kama uchawi na mapepo...others most ppo as we grow tunaona flaws nyingi za dini...Watu siku hizi wanajiita Mara spiritual but not religious ndo hivyo...so critical thinking inakuwa na ushahidi wake ni huku jamii forums na peers wetu pia
 
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