Uzi maalum kwa wale wanaopinga uwepo wa Mungu

[Kiranga]

simjui,

hili bandiko limekua Powered By Nature

you can't compete

kumbe wewe umekuja na mentality ya kushindana ?

Mimi sijaja na mentality ya kushindana, ila pia siogopi kushindana.

Wewe ndiye umekuja na habari za kushindana kwa kusema nitakimbia.

Wewe ni mjinga, hujui problem of evil ni nini.

Unabishana mambo ambayo huyajui. Problem of evil ni moja kati ya the most basic arguments against tje existence of God.

Na wewe huijui.

Bisha.

Ni kama mtu ambaye hajui kuhesabu halafu anabishana mahesabu ya Syring Theory.

No wonder nikikuambia kwamba hoja yako ya complexity inaonesha Mungu hayupo, haioneshi Mungu yupo hunielewi.

Tuna tofauti kubwa sana ya uelewa.

Yani ulipo wewe leo mimi nilipavuka miaka mingi sana iliyopita.

Ndiyo maana hata kukuelezea makosa yako inakuwa shida. Kwa sababu kabla ya kukuelezea inabidi nianze kukufundisha lugha ya kukuelezea.

Your grasp of logic is severely wanting.

Your grasp of basic arguments for and against the existence of God is very shallow. To the extent that you are giving arguments against the existence of God, thinking that they are for tje existence of God.

Without addressing that deficiency hatuwezi kuelewana.

Kibaya zaidi, una ubishi wa kijinga, si ubishi wa kutaka kuelewa.

Ndiyo maana inakuwa vigumu kukuelewesha.

 

[Infropreneur]

To the beginning of 20 century, hakuna aliyejuwa definition ya molecules ila haimaanishi kama hazikuwepo. Kabla ya karne ya 19 Hakuna aliyejuwa kuhusiana na electrons ila haimaanishi kama hazikuwepo,
Simply put, huezi kusema kitu hakipo eti tu hujuwi maana yake. Mungu alipoumba binadam alitupa Intelligence na free will, Ni jukumu lako kumtafuta sio kukaa tu kuwaza hayupo

Unathibitishaje Mungu huyo aliumba binadamu?

Kwanza thibitisha Mungu huyo yupo ndipo useme Mungu huyo aliumba binadamu.

Yani hujathibitisha Mungu yupo, Halafu Unarukia kusema Mungu huyo kaumba binadamu.

Mungu huyo yeye aliumbwa na nani?

Mungu huyo kabla hajaumba mbingu na dunia, alikuwa wapi?

Huko alikokuwa kulitoka wapi?

Na kuliumbwa na nani?

 

[abdulrahman Said]

Umeconclude vipi? Una uthibitisho kuwa yupo? Naomba unithibitishie uwepo wake, achana na Quran, nithibitishie ww kama wewe uwepo wake

Origin of the life-form, wewe unahisi hii imetokana na nini??
If we both agree, all spontaneous process should end up increasing the entropy of a system. Iliwezekanaje hii chemical reaction iliyopelekea uwepo wa life-form hapa duniani??

 

[BRAIN BOX]

Origin of the life-form, wewe unahisi hii imetokana na nini??
If we both agree, all spontaneous process should end up increasing the entropy of a system. Iliwezekanaje hii chemical reaction iliyopelekea uwepo wa life-form hapa duniani??

Kwa hivo we unaamini kitu hakiwezi kuwepo bila chanzo sio? Bahati mbaya ilo swali huwa halina mwisho, mfano Mimi nikikuulza Mungu aliumbwa na nani utaweza kunijibu?

 

[Infropreneur]

That's how the universe works, sasa wewe ulitakaaje?
Hizi points zako hazijustify kutokuepo kwake
Kwa mujibu wako, unahisi ni kwa vipi ulimwengu uliweza kuwa at this precision? Variables like Time, distance of the planets, angular speed ya galaxies, planetary motions, How come they all came to balance.
Galaxies zinaspin at a very high frequency, mpaka now scientists wamereason eti kutakuwa na dark energy (invisible to us) yenye inabalance centrifugal force from galaxy spins, kama binadam umepewa uwezo wa kufikiria na unaamini uwepo wa hii dark energy alafu huamini uwepo wa Mungu unahisi uko timamu??? What if, there's no damn dark energy but God is there to keep the balance?

Kwa nini una mu exclude Mungu kwenye logic ya kuumbwa halafu unalazimisha na kutaka dunia na binadamu viwe vimeumbwa?

Kabla ya kutaka kujua ulimwengu uliwezaje kuwa at this precision, Mbona huanzi kujiuliza huyo Mungu na yeye yupoje kwenye hiyo precision?

 

[abdulrahman Said]

Unathibitishaje Mungu huyo aliumba binadamu?

Kwanza thibitisha Mungu huyo yupo ndipo useme Mungu huyo aliumba binadamu.

Yani hujathibitisha Mungu yupo, Halafu Unarukia kusema Mungu huyo kaumba binadamu.

Mungu huyo yeye aliumbwa na nani?

Mungu huyo kabla hajaumba mbingu na dunia, alikuwa wapi?

Huko alikokuwa kulitoka wapi?

Na kuliumbwa na nani?

Ukiwa unaargue unatakiwa uelewe pia.
Umesema kama sina definition ya Mungu basi hiyo ita-imply kwamba hayupo (A simple logic you tried to make)
Hoja haikuwa kuthibitisha uwepo, ni ku-nullify logic uliyojaribu kuijenga kutokana na hizo premises zako.
In the case, nilikwambia hakuna mtu alikuwa aware kuhusiana na existence ya molecules from 20 Century back. According to your logic shouldn't we conclude kwamba molecules hazikuwepo?

 

[Kiranga]

Ukweli simple.

Mpaka sasa hakuna mtu aliyethibitisha Mungu mjuzi wa yote, mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote yupo.

Kwa nini?

Kwa sababu hayupo.

Unabisha?

Kuni prove wrong unatakiwa kufanya kitu kimoja tu.

Thibitisha Mungu huyo yupo.

 

[abdulrahman Said]

Kwa nini una mu exclude Mungu kwenye logic ya kuumbwa halafu unalazimisha na kutaka dunia na binadamu viwe vimeumbwa?

Kabla ya kutaka kujua ulimwengu uliwezaje kuwa at this precision, Mbona huanzi kujiuliza huyo Mungu na yeye yupoje kwenye hiyo precision?

Do you expect the same rules of Newtonian Mechanics to work in quantum scale? No!, je ni uongo ??
The same when it comes to God, tunaweza kuexplain how humans came into existence but not how God did. Mungu hafananii na chochote alichokiumba, Yeye pekee ndiye alikuwepo kabla ya kila kitu

 

[Infropreneur]

Ukiwa unaargue unatakiwa uelewe pia.
Umesema kama sina definition ya Mungu basi hiyo ita-imply kwamba hayupo (A simple logic you tried to make)
Hoja haikuwa kuthibitisha uwepo, ni ku-nullify logic uliyojaribu kuijenga kutokana na hizo premises zako.

Sasa kama huna definition ya Mungu Utasemaje yupo?

Huoni kwamba una elezea speculations zako tu zisizo na uhalisia wowote ule?

In the case, nilikwambia hakuna mtu alikuwa aware kuhusiana na existence ya molecules from 20 Century back. According to your logic shouldn't we conclude kwamba molecules hazikuwepo?

Molecules zilikuwepo na baada ya tafiti na uchunguzi zikathibitishika zipo,

Haya ni utafiti upi unathibitisha kwamba Mungu yupo?

Aliyesema Mungu yupo, Alifanya utafiti na uchunguzi upi akagundua Mungu huyo yupo?

 

[P h a r a o h]

kaka una pepo yako,🙏🙏🙏🙏akili nyingi sana! kwanza umewezaje kufikiria nje ya box kusaidia wengine? ni dhahiri kuwa unaumia kuona watu wanakufuru uwepo wa mungu. na mungu akubariki na akuongezee maarifa katika kutoa elimu kwa jamii hasa katika zama hizi ambapo wimbi la kukufuru linakua kwa Kasi kama masikhara lakini wanamaanisha kabisa hakuna mungu! inalilah wa inalilah rajiun

Pamoja mkuu shukran

 

[abdulrahman Said]

Kwa hivo we unaamini kitu hakiwezi kuwepo bila chanzo sio? Bahati mbaya ilo swali huwa halina mwisho, mfano Mimi nikikuulza Mungu aliumbwa na nani utaweza kunijibu?

That's not the point I was trying to make.
Vitu vingi vinaweza kuwepo bila chanzo as long they agree with the laws of physics. That's how the nature works

 

[Infropreneur]

Do you expect the same rules of Newtonian Mechanics to work in quantum scale? No!, je ni uongo ??
The same when it comes to God, tunaweza kuexplain how humans came into existence but not how God did. Mungu hafananii na chochote alichokiumba, Yeye pekee ndiye alikuwepo kabla ya kila kitu

Sasa kama huwezi ku explain how did God come to existence, Ulijuaje yupo?

Huoni kwamba unafosi mawazo na mafikirio yako tu yasiyo na uthibitisho wowote ule?

 

[abdulrahman Said]

Sasa kama huna definition ya Mungu Utasemaje yupo?

Huoni kwamba una elezea speculations zako tu zisizo na uhalisia wowote ule?

Molecules zilikuwepo na baada ya tafiti na uchunguzi zikathibitishika zipo,

Haya ni utafiti upi unathibitisha kwamba Mungu yupo?

Aliyesema Mungu yupo, Alifanya utafiti na uchunguzi upi akagundua Mungu huyo yupo?

In this case argument ya kusema hayupo tunaifuta manake pia hakuna aliyethibitisha kama hayupo,
Kukosa definition haimaanishi hazipo, nikakupa example. Kama karne ya 19 hatukuwa na definition ya molecules tulipaswa kuconclude kama hayupo???
In this case hiyo logic ya
No definition of God-> God doesn't exist haina mashiko

 

[Raphael Alloyce]

Sitatumia maandiko ya Dini Quran wala Bible, labda wataelewa kidogo, maana humu JF nimegundua wapo wengi, unaweza ukajikuta una chati hata na shetani directly, anapotosha

Tuanzie kwenye Civilization na Level ya akili na kufikiri viumbe mbalimbali wapo kwenye level tofauti za civilization na akili. Inaweza kuonekana kupitia namna yao ya maisha.

Mfano Simba wana territory yao wanaweka alama kabisa iwe kuacha kinyesi n.k ila wana mipaka ya utawala na kuna utawala wa simba dume eneo hilo ambapo akiingiliwa na Simba mwingine ambae hakua hapo lazima wapigane vibaya sana hadi moja akubali show.

Tembo pia vilevile kiasi kwamba mwenzao akifa wanahizunika na kuonyesha kuomboleza...

Mchwa pia, wapo wana utawala wao, wana malkia, kuna walinzi kuna wajenzi, na wanajenga haswa, kichuguu kimejengwa kwa ustadi haswa inaonyesha kabisa wana mawasiliano mazuri sana na wanajua wanachokifanya.

Nyuki pia vile vile, wana jenga nyumba yao, sehemu ya kuwekea asali, kuna malkia, kuna wanaolinda eneo, nknk.

Yaani hadi wanavyotengeneza asali kumlinda malkia na kulinda eneo lao, lina onyesha wazi level yao ya kujielewa na level ya mawasiliano ni kubwa kabisa.

wanyama ni wengi ambao tunaweza kuwa tumia kama reference, Sokwe etc.

Hawa viumbe wote, kila mmoja kwa nafasi yake mfano tuchukulie nyuki, wanajiona wana akili(ni kweli wanayo),
wanajiona wanajua mambo mengi na kufikiri logically kwamba huyu ametuchokoza kwaiyo tuji-oganize kushambulia na kujilinda, wanajua kujenga, wanamuheshimu malkia na kumlinda...

ila pia kuna mambo hawajui na hawajui kama hawajui na hawawezi kukuelewa hata ukijaribu kuwaelewesha,
na hautakua hata na intrest ya kuwaelewesha...

Mfano: Je binadamu anaweza kua na interest ya kutaka kumuonyesha nyuki ni jinsi gani binadamu wameendelea kiteknolojia?

Nyuki anaweza kuelewa kwamba binadamu anaweza kuongea na mtu wa marekani kupitia iternet kwamba binadamu anaweza kuwasiliana hivi Jamii Forums kwa id fulani na hawajawai kuonana wala kua na namba ya simu wala kukutana?

Nyuki anaweza kuelewa kwamba hilo bomba linalotoa maji au hiyo taa inayowaka usiku barabarani au nyumbani imetengenezwa na binadamu na sio kwamba ipo tuu... inakazi na bili zinalipwa?

Hayo ni baadhi ya maendeleo ya binadamu na kujaribi kulinganisha uwezo wa akili wa nyuki na binadamu,

Ni dhahiri kwamba hai make sense kwa nyuki, na hatuna interest ya kutaka kumuelewesha

Tumetofautiana kiakili na nyuki kiasi cha kua sisi tunaweza kumuelewa nyuki ila yeye hawezi kutuelewa

Nyuki nae usipo mlinganisha na binadamu, ana akili kubwa tuu na huenda anajiona vilevile binadamu anavyojiona kiakili, na anakiamini kile akili yake inachowaza kumbe ndo akili yake ilipoishia.

Vile vile kwa binadamu anajiona yupo advanced kiakili ambayo ni kweli pia kwa nafasi yake lakini pia na yeye ana limit ambayo akili yake inaishia.

Tunaona tu dunia, jua mwezi, maporomoko na vingine, ni kama tuu nyuki akikutana na taa, bomba la maji, kweli anaona taa inatoa mwanga, bomba linatoa maji...

Ila hajui hasa lile bomba imekuaje lipo pale, au taa imekuaje ipo pale, imewekwa na nani?

Anachojua inatoa mwanga, mechanism nyuma yake je inakuaje inawaka usiku mchana haiwaki? Inakazi gani haswa? Hajui na hana uwezo wa kufatilia kujua.

probably akiona gari anajua ni mojawapo ya viumbe wengine, hajui kama binadamu ndo yupo ndani anaendesha. au anaweza kua analichukulia kwa namna tofauti kabisa. au hata haelewi chochote.

Hiyo ni relation tu ya kuonyesha jinsi akili ya viumbe mbalimbali ina limit yake

Binadamu pia limit ya akili yetu ina limit inapoishia

Mfano ndo unakutana na Mtu anayesema "Mungu Hayupo kwasababu Huwezi kumuona wala kumgusa wala kusikia sauti yake"

Hiyo ni moja wapo ya limit ya akili yetu, ina depend moja kwa moja na milango ya fahamu, masikio macho, pua, ulimi, ngozi...

Anakwambia "jua lili kwepo tuu, na dunia ilikwepo tuu, kwamba kama jua au dunia haiwezekani kuwepo tuu, basi na Mungu hawezekani kuwepo"

Inaonyesha ni jinsi gani akili yetu inafikia limit, kuyaelewa mambo mengine..

Mambo ambayo hatuyajui bado ni mengi ni infinity ♾️, na ningumu hata kuingia akilini haya make sense kwasababu yapo beyond uwezo wa akili.

Kama vilevile tulivyoona kwa mfano wa nyuki, kwamba kumuelezea hata teknolojia yetu hai make sense, kwaajili ya limit yao ya akili.

🙌🙌

 

[abdulrahman Said]

Sasa kama huwezi ku explain how did God come to existence, Ulijuaje yupo?

Huoni kwamba unafosi mawazo na mafikirio yako tu yasiyo na uthibitisho wowote ule?

Kuna vitu vingi huwezi kuthibitisha vimekujaje should we conclude havipo pia!?
You're not making sense

 

[Infropreneur]

Kuna vitu vingi huwezi kuthibitisha vimekujaje should we conclude havipo pia!?
You're not making sense

Vitu gani vingi siwezi kuthibitisha?

 

[Infropreneur]

In this case argument ya kusema hayupo tunaifuta manake pia hakuna aliyethibitisha kama hayupo,

Hivi anaye takiwa kuthibitisha kitu kipo ni yule anayesema kipo au ambaye anasema hakipo?

Ukisema kitu kipo ina maana unajua na una uthibitisho wa uwepo wake, na ukisema kitu hakipo ina maana kitu hicho hakipo kwa namna yoyote ile ya kuthibitishika kipo.

Una elewa hilo?

Kukosa definition haimaanishi hazipo, nikakupa example. Kama karne ya 19 hatukuwa na definition ya molecules tulipaswa kuconclude kama hayupo???
In this case hiyo logic ya
No definition of God-> God doesn't exist haina mashiko

Molecules ni nini?

God ni nini?

 

[abdulrahman Said]

Vitu gani vingi siwezi kuthibitisha?

Origin of life-form, existence ya dark matter na dark energy na mavitu kibao ambayo tukijaribu kujenga logic tutafika kwenye conclusion kuna Mungu yupo

 

[P h a r a o h]

Ngoja nikusaidie, problem of evil Iko hivi, kama kweli Mungu yupo kwanini Kuna mema na mabaya? Haya mjibu Kiranga kuhusu hilo

hilo swali ni la ki jinga sanasiku espect kwamba anaweza kua na maana hiyo ndo maana nikauliza anamaanisha nini anavyosema problem of evil,

pia kila mara narudia bado hatujaingia kwenye dini yoyote, tuna verify tu kwanza kua Mungu yupo mbali na maandiko ya Dini, kwasababu Mungu ni zaidi ya dini yoyote ile,

kwanini unaingiza concept ya mema na mabaya wakati huu mjadala hauja base kwenye Dini Bado,

Dini ilikuja Baadae sana, kwaiyo tukishakubaliana Mungu yupo, ndo Dini ifuate na tuanze kuchambua maswala ya dini kama hayo unayoyaita "mema na mabaya"

 

[abdulrahman Said]

Hivi anaye takiwa kuthibitisha kitu kipo ni yule anayesema kipo au ambaye anasema hakipo?

Ukisema kitu kipo ina maana unajua na una uthibitisho wa uwepo wake, na ukisema kitu hakipo ina maana kitu hicho hakipo kwa namna yoyote ile ya kuthibitishika kipo.

Una elewa hilo?

Molecules ni nini?

God ni nini?

Rekebisha hapo kwenye kuthibitisha, hapa tunajaribu kujenga logics then tuone ipi inamake sense, hakuna anayeweza kuthibitisha kama Mungu yupo au hayupo. (still haioneshi kama hayupo, to this point we were all supposed to be neutral)
Sasa argument ianze kwa wewe kujenga logics zako kwamba hayupo [nanukuu, ulisema kwasababu hatuna definition ya Mungu, I discarded your logic kwamba haimake sense. Kutokuwa na definition haioneshi kwamba hayupo], let suppose a cat is in the box (kimya na box imefungwa), There's no way to say 'hakuna paka ndani ya lile boksi unless tulifungue' labda uwe mwendawazimu
Tukija kwenye logic yangu, I suppose you know about galaxies and how they spin. Unahisi kuna mass ya kutosha kutoa gravity ya kubalance centrifugal force ya galaxies (Rem, universe is mostly empty space) Science says kuna invisible matter (dark matter) yenye inaprovide hii sufficient gravity ya kushikilia galaxies.
My question, wewe unaamini uwepo wa hii dark energy? [NDIYO, HAPANA]