Who created God? Who made him? Where did he come from?

[Free ideas]

Labda nikuulize swali dogo tu!

Huyu MUNGU tunaejaribu kumjadili hapa NI NANI?

Manake huwezi kujadili kitu au mtu au nguvu yyt bila kwanza kufahamu japo MAANA ya hicho unacho kijadili.

Labda tuanzie hapo.

Kwa ufahamu wako WEWE MUNGU NI NANI? AU NI NINI?

Kwa nn unaniuliza swali ambalo unatakiwa kujibu?.

 

[THE BIG SHOW]

Kwa nn unaniuliza swali ambalo unatakiwa kujibu?.

Hapo ndipo wasomaji watakapo ona nguvu zako za hoja.

Kwa maana hio JUU YA kuwa HUKUBALI kuwa MUNGU YUPO.

HUJUI HATA MAANA ya Huyo MUNGU UNAEPINGA kuwa HAYUPO?

Sasa wewe nani wa kukuelewesha!

Ungelisema haya toka.mwanzo wa mjadala huu wala nisingepoteza muda wangu kujadili na wewe.

Siku njema.

 

[Free ideas]

According to me,Mungu ni UOGA/HOFU ya Watu(VIUMBE),.A mbapo kwa kukosa maarifa na ujuzi Wameiumba Nguvu hiyo kwa fikra za hofu.
Watu ambao ni dhaifu na wavivu kufikiri,kuhoji na wamejawa na uoga huishia kukubali lolote wasikialo ama kuambiwa.
Kuna maswali ambayo watu hujiuliza na wakikosa majibu basi hudhni kwamba lazima kuna nguvu flani inayowezesha mambo hayo.baadhi ya maswali hayo ni haya hapa chini

1.Kwa nn ss tupo,tulitoka wapi??
2.Hatima yetu ni nn?
3.Kwa nn cc na sio wanyama?
4.Kwa nn kuna dunia,je ilitoka wapi,na mwisho wake nn?basi lazima kuna mwanzilishi.
5.Kifo/kuzaliwa kuzeeka,

pamoja na mengine mengi,ambayo humpelekea MTU kuhukumu kwamba lazima kuna nguvu.flan,ambayo mpaka leo hakuna anaeijua.

 

[Free ideas]

Hapo ndipo wasomaji watakapo ona nguvu zako za hoja.

Kwa maana hio JUU YA kuwa HUKUBALI kuwa MUNGU YUPO.

HUJUI HATA MAANA ya Huyo MUNGU UNAEPINGA kuwa HAYUPO?

Sasa wewe nani wa kukuelewesha!

Ungelisema haya toka.mwanzo wa mjadala huu wala nisingepoteza muda wangu kujadili na wewe.

Siku njema.

Nikisema hapa hakuna Kitu kinachoitwa UPEPO,we ukasema UPEPO upo/kipo .Mimi nikaendelea kusema kwamba HAKUNA UPEPO,we ukasema tena kwa kujiamini kwamba UPEPO UPO,tena unarangi ya blue,njano,na ni mrefu na unapuliza kwa kasi.Je NANI ANATAKIWA AUELEZEE UPEPO ?,je ni mimi nisemaye hakuna kitu /mtu kinaitwa upepo ama wewe ambaye unajua haya sifa za upepo.,

INAKUWAJE TENA UNANIULIZA MIMI NIKUAMBIE MAANA YA UPEPO.,sijui kama unanielewa.

 

[Mekatilili]

haha poor thinker it not making sense to you doesnt mean its senseless .


we put aside science and religion where did nature came from

Do not fault my thinking, I was trying to be polite. It is your inability to communicate effectively that is the issue.

I cannot engage in that type of hypothetical thinking. Evidence driven reasoning is what I look to—in order to understand the cosmos.

This is akin to saying "we put aside you mother and father" where did you come from?

 

[Mjuni Lwambo]

Aliyekwambia Mungu ana chuki na watu ni nani?

Maandiko matakatifu.

 

[Mjuni Lwambo]

Unajuaje kuwa ni muumba wako bila kuchunguza?
Na kuhusu kujuaje ni kitu, nitajua baada ya kuchunguza.

utamchunguzaje muumba wako?


umejuaje ni kitu?

 

[mjasiria]

Nikisema hapa hakuna Kitu kinachoitwa UPEPO,we ukasema UPEPO upo/kipo .Mimi nikaendelea kusema kwamba HAKUNA UPEPO,we ukasema tena kwa kujiamini kwamba UPEPO UPO,tena unarangi ya blue,njano,na ni mrefu na unapuliza kwa kasi.Je NANI ANATAKIWA AUELEZEE UPEPO ?,je ni mimi nisemaye hakuna kitu /mtu kinaitwa upepo ama wewe ambaye unajua haya sifa za upepo.,

INAKUWAJE TENA UNANIULIZA MIMI NIKUAMBIE MAANA YA UPEPO.,sijui kama unanielewa.

Wote mnatakiwa kwanza mkubaliane "upepo" ni nini, vinginevyo kuna uwezekano mpingaji na anayesema upo mkawa mnaongelea vitu viwili tofauti kabisa japokuwa neno mnalotumia linaweza kuwa lilelile. Kwa mfano hata mimi napinga uwepo wa Mungu ambaye anaweza kuzaliwa na akahitaji kula lakini nina kubali uwepo wa Mungu kwa muono tofauti kabisa. Kwa hiyo utaona hapa kuwa neno "Mungu" ni lilelile ila kutegemea na muktadha naweza kupinga au nikubaliane.

Kwa mantiki hiyo, wewe unavyopinga kuwepo wa Mungu, unapinga kwa tafsiri ipi? Au kwa maneno mengine Mungu ni nini kwa mujibu wa mtazamo wako?

 

[mjasiria]

Maandiko matakatifu.

Unaamini ni maandiko matakatifu?

 

[Mekatilili]

...To start if I may ask you Mekatilili "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God.
If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand...

As I stated earlier, we can have a discussion without turning to infantile remarks. That was pointed criticism, it is shameful for you to attempt to write it off as a joke or a barb. I urge you to be respectful and refrain from name calling.


You do not need to present an Islamic perspective, I have studied the quran, hadith and sunna. I have also studied seera, fiqh and akhlaq and I reject the islamic ideals.


You preface your argument by restating the title of the thread, "who created god?"

In regards to whether GOD do exists or NOT is not todays subject here. The title above is "WHO CREATED GOD"! and I will prefer to stick to that for now.

You begin the next paragraph by stating.

If you want to know More about GOD if he does Exist or not, then I will give you just a touch of ISLAMIC prospective of GOD.

1. Do you see the inconsistency in your argument?


2. You have taken your analogy of the pen to an invalid conclusion. There are as many gods as there are cultures. Islam does not have a monopoly on the concept of a god. As a matter of fact, islam is a late entrant that borrows heavily from christianity and judaism. The fact that I understand the concept, god, does not make it valid. There are far dozens of myths that I find more interesting and compelling than those from the Arabian peninsula.


3. You have drawn false equivalencies between human beings and machines. That analogy does not hold water. You should not compare the emergence of a machine to the existence of human beings and then claim that there is a creator.


4. Probability: Your application of the theory of probability both is unnecessary and improper. It is however funny that you are quoting theories even after deriding the concept.


Quran & Science

The quran is not scientific. It is often wrong or simply restating what was common knowledge at that time.


1. Spherical Earth: The fact that the earth is not flat has been known for thousands of years. The Ancient Greeks Pythagoras (570 - 495 BC), Aristotle (384 - 322 BC) and Hipparchus (190 - 120 BC) all knew this. The Indian astronomer and mathematician, Aryabhata (476 - 550 AD) knew this.


2. The Quran states the earth is flat “like a carpet” in all these verses: Qur'an 15:19, Qur'an 20:53, Qur'an 43:10, Qur'an 50:7.


3. The moon’s reflection: First there is no quranic verse that states that moon reflects light from the sun. Again, this is a fact that ancient Greek astronomers including Aristotle knew for thousands of years before islam.


4. On water: human beings are not made of water and the idea of the 4 humors was well known by scholars as far back as 4000 years before islam. I already illustrated this fact. Do not forget the fact that the quran states that human beings are made of clay in one verse, it states that human beings are made of congealed blood in another verse, and it also says that human beings are made of water in the aforementioned verse. None of these assertions is true.


5. Francis Bacon was wrong, in his assertions, and there are thousands of other reputable scientists that do not hold his view.


In conclusion the quran is not scientific, it houses many myths and a worldview that is a reflection of the time it was written.


Quoting the quran is an exercise in futility. I need evidence not ancient texts.

 

[Mekatilili]

Go west or East,you must Answer this

I havent requested list of Ancient scholars and years when they existed or a cell realia in an Image form,plus their fields of specialization

I have already answered your questions. Refusing to read the answers and robotically repeating your question does not validate your argument

You have two quetions to answer

1)What PERCENTAGE of a cell is made up of water%%%%.????????????????????????? .......

Two thirds of a cell, 66% is water. Why doesn't the quran state that two thirds of a cell is made up of water?

It instead says that humans are made of water. This idea is incorrect and it was common knowledge for over 4000 years before the advent of islam.

2)I have said,i need any Ancient scholar before 570 Ad who just said(with out prove) or knew that living things were made from Water.

Or even a hearby say from Aristotle and his allies that it may state that" i hereby Aristotle with my allies (570 Ad) confirms that living things are made from water.

You need a scholar but I will provide more than one scholar that stated humans were made of water.

Ayurverdic medicine—3700 years before 570 AD. Their work on doshas.
Hippocrates—Most notable—Over 1000 years before 570 AD in the theory of 4 humors. His hippocratic oath is used by doctors to this date.

Aristotle: Over 900 years before 570 AD.

Gelen: 400 years before Islam.

Dioscorides: 500 years before 570 AD.


Remember humans are not made of water! It is for that reason that I find it necessary to introduce you to a cell.

 

[Mekatilili]

I told you intelligent creation. What do you want?

That is not evidence. Can you prove that life was created by a god?

 

[Mekatilili]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Hayo maswali sio kwamba hawezi kujibu.Ila jamaaa anadhani labda ataibika,au kuonyesha kushindwa .Hapa tunaelimishana tu hakuna anaemlazimisha mwezake akubali msimamo wake.

Mfano hilo swali la kwanza hata chekechea anaweza jibu.Ni vyema akatoa jibu tukaendelea na mengine,Cause ye ni mr material

ila hilo la pili atakesha.

Huyu mi nimesema kazi anayoweza ni kuposti picha za suburbs na madaraja. Huku hawezi.

This is infantile at best. Ad hominem is logical fallacy 101. I have answered all your questions and it is evident that you do not like the answers. It is for that reason that your have resorted to mudslinging, an testament of your incapacity to engage in an intelligent discussion.

You can attack my person all day, it does not bother me. If only you could attack the topic at hand with the same ferocity.

 

[mjasiria]

That is not evidence. Can you prove that life was created by a god?

That is what most pro-God people have been doing all along in this thread. Why don't go through the thread again and If you don't want to see the proof, then may be you are not worth my time.

 

[kireri jr]

qur an na sayans havitakuonesha vp mungu yupo ila tu utaona uwezo wa mungu katika uumbaji kama utahtaji evidence utakufa ukiwa mpingaji ila nakushaur ikiwa sayans ina kikomo chimbua upande wa pili nna hakika una iq kubwa kwa jins unavyo tetea hoja zako kisomi unaonaje ukajifunza qur an ili tu upate kujua udhaif uliopo ndani ya qur an kama waislam walivyojua udhaifu wa sayans silim hata kinafki tu then pitia hk kitabu cha ajabu kiundani nina hakika hakutakuwa na mtu wa kukuchanganya humu jf maana ikiwa wenzetu wametukimbia hata cc waislam tutakukimbia wewe ni mtu muhimu jifunze ujue muujiza wa qur an ecomicaly scientificaly and socialy then utakubaliana nami kuwa muhammad hata mwanasayans wa leo hawez kuandika kile kitab

mkuu ebu nionyeshe hyo miujza ya kuran? au ndo jua kutuwama kwenye matope na dunia kua flat

 

[thinky]

Do not fault my thinking, I was trying to be polite. It is your inability to communicate effectively that is the issue.

I cannot engage in that type of hypothetical thinking. Evidence driven reasoning is what I look to—in order to understand the cosmos.

This is akin to saying "we put aside you mother and father" where did you come from?

hasara hii huo mfano,haupo correspondent science and religion brought nature?Think big

 

[Nikisema]

Ulizia hao wanaotengeneza Mungu wao ,ila muumba wa Mbingu na Dunia usicheze nae utapotea Kama Malaysia airline .

 

[Free ideas]

Wote mnatakiwa kwanza mkubaliane "upepo" ni nini, vinginevyo kuna uwezekano mpingaji na anayesema upo mkawa mnaongelea vitu viwili tofauti kabisa japokuwa neno mnalotumia linaweza kuwa lilelile. Kwa mfano hata mimi napinga uwepo wa Mungu ambaye anaweza kuzaliwa na akahitaji kula lakini nina kubali uwepo wa Mungu kwa muono tofauti kabisa. Kwa hiyo utaona hapa kuwa neno "Mungu" ni lilelile ila kutegemea na muktadha naweza kupinga au nikubaliane.

Kwa mantiki hiyo, wewe unavyopinga kuwepo wa Mungu, unapinga kwa tafsiri ipi? Au kwa maneno mengine Mungu ni nini kwa mujibu wa mtazamo wako?

okay huwa sipendi league,ngoja niwasaidie/niwarahisishie maana mmekwama,

Mimi,napinga uwepo wa kitu/mtu ama chochote kile cha namna yoyote ile kisemwacho kwba kipo na kinanguvu ya
ku-govern maisha na kila kinachoendelea ulimwenguni.Nyie mnachokipa sifa zote na nguvu zote.Ambacho hata hivo mmeshindwa mpaka sasa usema ama kuthibitisha kwamba kipo kwa evidences za kuonekana na kuleweke.,Na mara nyingi tunapo hitaji ushahidi wa kuwepo kitu/nguvu hiyo mnaishia kusema kwamba chenyewe hakihitaji ushahidi,sasa iweje mnakielezea kama hakihitaji hata kuchunguzwa??,

NIkisema kitu/nguvu/kiumbe hicho ni UOGA na mnakiumba nyie kutokana na SINTOFAHAMUA,mna sema tunakufuru.,haya nishawafafanulia leteni ushahidi usio na shaka wabuwepobwa kiumbe/nguvu/kitu hicho

 

[kireri jr]

okay huwa sipendi league,ngoja niwasaidie/niwarahisishie maana mmekwama,

Mimi,napinga uwepo wa kitu/mtu ama chochote kile cha namna yoyote ile kisemwacho kwba kipo na kinanguvu ya
ku-govern maisha na kila kinachoendelea ulimwenguni.Nyie mnachokipa sifa zote na nguvu zote.Ambacho hata hivo mmeshindwa mpaka sasa usema ama kuthibitisha kwamba kipo kwa evidences za kuonekana na kuleweke.,Na mara nyingi tunapo hitaji ushahidi wa kuwepo kitu/nguvu hiyo mnaishia kusema kwamba chenyewe hakihitaji ushahidi,sasa iweje mnakielezea kama hakihitaji hata kuchunguzwa??,

NIkisema kitu/nguvu/kiumbe hicho ni UOGA na mnakiumba nyie kutokana na SINTOFAHAMUA,mna sema tunakufuru.,haya nishawafafanulia leteni ushahidi usio na shaka wabuwepobwa kiumbe/nguvu/kitu hicho

da mkuu kwel we uoga huna. kwan umeweza wezaje kuutoa huo uoga

 

[Free ideas]

da mkuu kwel we uoga huna. kwan umeweza wezaje kuutoa huo uoga

Sikuwahi kukukubali kitu (nisichokiona ama kukithibitisha kwa namna yoyote inayoeleweka)bila kuwa na uhakika/Ushahidi tosherevu.