CHADEMA kweli ni shwari au ni kauli za kisiasa tu ?

mkandara said:

kuhani,
Mkuu Lugha Inakupiga Chenga?...
Soma Tena Maelezo Yangu Unambie Wapi Kunakohusiana Na Obama Na Rangi Yake!.. Hata Kama Obama Angekuwa Mweupe Bado Ningetumia Mfano Huo Huo...ni Wewe Uliyetafsiri Rangi Ya Obama Ktk Utendaji Kazi Wake, Tofauti Na Kutazama Watu Anaowawakilisha..mbinu Za Obama Zinatazama Watu Anaowawakilisha Sio Rangi Yake Yeye, Hivyo Tunapomzungumzia Obama Ni Ktk Kuangalia Malengo Yake Kwa Wananchi Sio Rangi Yake Yeye.
Sijasema Wangwe Ni Mkurya Wala Hoja Yangu Haihusiani Na Kabila Ya Wangwe Isipokuwa Wanachama Wa Chadema Na Wasiokuwa Wanachama Jinsi Wanavyolitazama Sakata Hili. Hawa Ni Watu W Toka Sehemu Tofauti, Vyama Tofauti Na Kadhalika..
Mfano Hoja Ya Pundit Inayouliza Kwa Nini Wabunge Wa Chama Hiki Walioteuliwa Wanatoka Mkoa Wa Kilimanjaro!.. Laweza Kuwa Swala Duni Kwa Mtazamo Wa Baadhi Yetu Lakini Ukweli Ni Kwamba Hili Ni Swali Zito Sana Kwa Baadhi Ya Wananchi Wengi..na Linahitaji Majibu Ya Kurudhisha Na Ni Muhimu Kwa Wahusika Kutazama Majibu Kwa Darubini Huru Ya Kifikra Laa Sivyo Majibu Yatakuwa Na Mgongano Mkubwa Zaidi.

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Wewe Si Ulitoa Mfano Wa Uongozi Wa Kamati Ya Harusi?
Sasa Chama Ni Kamati ya Harusi?
Na Kama Ni Kweli Mbowe Kakifanya Chama Kama Kamati Ya Harusi..then Makosa Ni Yake.
Lakini..haina Maana Kuwa Wangwe Nae Ni Safi!

NB:Kama makosa hayo kweli kayafanya MBOWE..Basi anaweza kuyarekebisha.
Kwani nani hajui kuna watu hawawapendi wachagga hata iweje?
Nani hajui kuna mapandikizi all the time?
MBOWE LABDA ALIFANYA HIVYO KWA KUJIHAMI,ILI KUEPUKA MAPANDIKIZI AMBAYO BAADAYE HUGEUKA NA KULILIA UKABILA!
NIMEULIZA...WHAT WAS THE BUTIAMA DECLARATION?
KWANINI WANGWE ALIWASILIANA NA KABURU?
MBOWE NA YEYE AMETOKA JASHO KUKIJENGA CHADEMA...NA ANASTAHILI PONGEZI NA SI KUMGEUKA HIVYO!
WAKUU WAZEE WA CHADEMA TUMIENI HEKIMA NA MUWARUDISHE HAWA WATU PAMOJA!
WANGWE NA UACHE UNAFIKI!
WENZAKO WANAJENGA NCHI KWA VITENDO WE UNABAKI NA SIASA ZA DIVISIONS!
NI LAANA!
LAANA ILIYOPELEKEA SISI KUWA WATUMWA!

Mgagagigikoko,
Mkuu, ebu nipe elimu hapa..
Ikiwa Kitila alikuwa vyama hivyo let's say ni kweli kuna ubaya gani kama aliondoka kwa hiyari yake tofauti na Wangwe aliyefukuzwa/viliwa uongozi!..
Na imekuwaje Kitila awe ndio issue kwa kuhama maanake hapa mkuu ni sawa na kuwashtumu watu wanaohama madhehebu ya dini kuwa sii waumini wa kweli!.. wewe nani kuelewa yote haya!

mgagagigikoko said:

Hapana sizushi ninasema kwa ushahidi, nimemtaja Zitto kwa vile ni mtu wa upande wa huko, kila ninalosema hawataki kuelewa.Zitto anakuja muda gani?

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Usianze kutafuta mtu mwingine wa kukusemea ulichodai kuwa una ushahidi. Ushahidi wako ambao uliahidi kuwa unao ndio tu utakusafisha kwenye hili. Kinyume cha hapo muombe msamaha Kitila kwa maana sasa hivi unasubiriwa tena kuwaomba msamaha watu wa musoma ambao umedai kuwa kazi yao wanayostahili ni ya jeshi.

Mkandara said:

Kuhani,
Mkuu lugha inakupiga chenga?...
Soma tena maelezo yangu unambie wapi kunakohusiana na Obama na rangi yake!.. Hata kama Obama angekuwa mweupe bado ningetumia mfano huo huo...Ni wewe uliyetafsiri rangi ya Obama ktk utendaji kazi wake, tofauti na kutazama watu anaowawakilisha..Mbinu za Obama zinatazama watu anaowawakilisha sio rangi yake yeye, hivyo tunapomzungumzia Obama ni ktk kuangalia Malengo yake kwa wananchi sio rangi yake yeye.
Sijasema Wangwe ni Mkurya wala hoja yangu haihusiani na kabila ya Wangwe isipokuwa wanachama wa Chadema na wasiokuwa wanachama jinsi wanavyolitazama sakata hili. Hawa ni watu w toka sehemu tofauti, vyama tofauti na kadhalika...

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Mkuu,

Umechanganya madawa.

Sijawahi kujadili rangi ya Obama jamvini hapa.

Hebu weka nukuu basi. Unless umechanganya majina. Angalia kama umefagia virus na malware nyingine, labda kuna technical issue, or something.

What are you talking about?

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

Yapo kwenye http://www.klhnews.com pale juu kunamahali panasema "Listen Show"...

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Miye nayakosa aisee.

BTW: Kwa vile JF ina vichwa vikali sana ngoja niulize swali moja. Kama kuna mwana JF yeyote anayejua namna ya kufufua sound card ya laptop, naomba anipe ushauri kwa kunitumia PM. Najua kwenye desktop dawa ni kununua soundcard nyingine, lakini sijui kwa upande wa laptop.

Jmushi1,
Mkuu wewe kweli hamnazo! samahani lakini.. wapi nimesema Mbowe kaifanya Chadema kuwa Kamati ya harusi! kwani ni jukumu la Mbowe kuchagua washiriki kuunda kamati ya chama hicho?
Kilichotangulia ni nafasi ya Wangwe ambayo ni Makamu Mwenyekiti na alichaguliwa na mkutano mkuu wa chama sio kamati unayozungumzia. Ni swali ambalo bado lijnachanganya vichwa vya watu hapa kutokana na maamuzi ya kamati hiyo...
Uhusiano wa Wangwe ktk sakata hili hauwezi kupata ufumbuzi wa kweli ikiwa atatazamwa kwa darubini isiyokuwa huru kifikra yaani viongozi waliohusika kujiuliza kwanza kwa nini Wangwe alichaguliwa na wanachama. wapate kuziona hizo mila na Tamaduni za wanachama waliomchagua hata kama sababu zinapingana na fikra zao binafsi iwe kile wanachokikubali wao.
Mfano wa harusi ni mkubwa kuliko unavyofikiria na hakika itakuwa kazi kubwa sana kukufahamisha wewe maanake kwako wewe 2+3 ni lazima iwe 23.

mwafrika wa kike said:

... Kinyume cha hapo muombe msamaha Kitila kwa maana sasa hivi unasubiriwa tena kuwaomba msamaha watu wa musoma ambao umedai kuwa kazi yao wanayostahili ni ya jeshi.

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Kawaua watu wa Musoma pia?

Kuhani,
Samahani mkuu ni makosa yangu, nilikuwa niandike jina la Jmushi1, samahani sana sikukusudia hivyo... nadhani utanikubali kwa hilo!

Kuhani said:

Kawaua watu wa Musoma pia?

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Sio tu watu wa musoma pekee, amesema pia kuwa watu wa mkoa wa singida hawana uwezo na maamuzi mazito, soma alichoandika hapa:

mgagagigikoko said:

Watu wa Mara ni shupavu na hawaburuzwi ndio maana tukawapa jeshi watuongoze kwani tunahitaji wenye msimamo na uwezo wa kuamua mambo.
watu wa mkoa kama Singida kwa Kitila hawana uwezo kuwa na maamuzi mazito au ya maana tunaweza kuwaita (wajumbe Ndiyo).

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Na WANGWE anijibu swali hili...Kama kweli unaipenda TANZANIA NA WALA SI KUWA UNA LAKO JAMBO...Then ni kwanini HUKWENDA ccm KUISAFISHA DHIDI YA MAFISADI NA UKAENDA CHADEMA KUKISAFISHA DHIDI YA UKABILA?
Kweli WEWE UMEONA UKABILA NI MKUBWA TANZANIA KULIKO UFISADI?
AMA UNATAKA KUTUMIA UKABILA KAMA KINA CHENGE ILI KUVURUGA ISSUE YA UFISADI?
Una nia gani?
Ni kivipi LUGHA ZAKO ZIFANANE NA KINA CHENGE HALAFU UJIDAI MPINZANI?
WE NA CHEYO NI WATUMWA WA AKILI!
NA NINAKUTAKA UWAOMBE MSAMAHA VIONGOZI NA MRUDI PAMOJA KULIJENGA TAIFA KAMA KWELI NIA ZENU WEWE NA MBOWE NI NZURI!

mkandara said:

jmushi1,
Mkuu Wewe Kweli Hamnazo! Samahani Lakini.. Wapi Nimesema Mbowe Kaifanya Chadema Kuwa Kamati Ya Harusi! Kwani Ni Jukumu La Mbowe Kuchagua Washiriki Kuunda Kamati Ya Chama Hicho?
Kilichotangulia Ni Nafasi Ya Wangwe Ambayo Ni Makamu Mwenyekiti Na Alichaguliwa Na Mkutano Mkuu Wa Chama Sio Kamati Unayozungumzia. Ni Swali Ambalo Bado Lijnachanganya Vichwa Vya Watu Hapa Kutokana Na Maamuzi Ya Kamati Hiyo...
Uhusiano Wa Wangwe Ktk Sakata Hili Hauwezi Kupata Ufumbuzi Wa Kweli Ikiwa Atatazamwa Kwa Darubini Isiyokuwa Huru Kifikra Yaani Viongozi Waliohusika Kujiuliza Kwanza Kwa Nini Wangwe Alichaguliwa Na Wanachama. Wapate Kuziona Hizo Mila Na Tamaduni Za Wanachama Waliomchagua Hata Kama Sababu Zinapingana Na Fikra Zao Binafsi Iwe Kile Wanachokikubali Wao.
Mfano Wa Harusi Ni Mkubwa Kuliko Unavyofikiria Na Hakika Itakuwa Kazi Kubwa Sana Kukufahamisha Wewe Maanake Kwako Wewe 2+3 Ni Lazima Iwe 23.

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Mbowe Si Mchagga?
Ama Unakwepa?
Honestly...nilikuwa Nakupa Respect Lakini Nishaona We Hovyo Sana Tu!
Yani Unapinga Kuwa Hukutoa Mfano Wa Kamati Ya Harusi Kwa Kulinganisha Na Mfano Wa Namna Mbowe Kaajiri Watu?
Fool Me Once!

Kama we MKANDARA UNAONA MBELE...BASI UNGERUDI HUKO ccm YAKO UKAWATOE KINA ROSTAM NA CHENGE KWANZA!
MAKABILA MAKUBWA NYIE NA MNALETA UNAFIKI WENU HAPA!
NENDA PIGA KELELE TUPATE HAKI NA UHURU WETU NA SI KUWAGAWA WATANZANIA MAMLUKI WA SHETANI!

mwafrika wa kike said:

amesema pia kuwa watu wa mkoa wa singida hawana uwezo na maamuzi mazito, soma alichoandika hapa:

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mgagagigikoko said:

...watu wa mkoa kama Singida kwa Kitila hawana uwezo kuwa na maamuzi mazito au ya maana tunaweza kuwaita (wajumbe Ndiyo).

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No he didn't!

JmUshi1,
Nimesema hivi kwako wewe 2+3 ni lazima iwe 23 hivyo itakuwa kazi kubwa kukufahamisha nje ya hapo!..

Naendelea na Mjadala...
Wakuu mimi ningependa tuyaweke hapa malalamishi ya Wangwe na tuyatazame kwa fikra huru kuona uzito wake badala ya kutazama judgement ya kamati hiyo kwanza. Kwa sababu kama kuna ukweli ktk madai yake ama ndivyo halisi halisi inavyoonekana kwa wanachama na wananchi basi hili ni SWALA ZITO zaidi kwa chama na isichukuliwe kama ni kuharibu jina la chama ila kutafuta haki na amani ktk kukijenga chama kama tunavyofanya kwa CCM.
Sifa mbovu alizopewa Wangwe haziwezi kuwa sababu zinazokubalika kwa baadhi ya watu ktk nafasi ya Makamu Mwenyekiti. Na kama kweli hizo kero za mtu huyu zinatokana na kile alichowakilisha ambacho kinakiuka kanuni za chama sasa ni wakati wetu kujiuliza Je, kile kilichotendeka kuligana na madai ya Wangwe kinakubaliaka na wanachama?..Kimepokelewa vipi na wananchi!
Kumbukeni kuwa CUF ina makovu mengi sana kutokana na wao kushindwa kuyatazama malalamiko ya baadhi viongozi waliopita na kuondolewa kwao hakukuweza kuondoa dosari zilizokwisha jengwa ndani ya chama hicho!..
Nitapendekeza zaidi kuweka hoja za Wangwe hapa kisha tupate majibu toka kwa kina Kiltila kulingana na madai hayo na sio kumtazama Wangwe kama mtu wa aina gani, bali kauli zake ktk mchango wa chama hata kama zinabomoa uhusiano wa baadhi viongozi...Hoja za wangwe zijibiwe kwa hoja na sio Wangwe ni mtu wa aina gani!

Pundit said:

It is with an ambivalence of sadness and joy that I pen this prognosis on the recently debacle, democratic nevertheless, ensued amongst the CHADEMA top brass. Now I for one abhor lukewarmness just as the author of that psychedellic book of revelation, but on this I have to measure things with Solomonic insight if not wisdom.

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.
I listened to Mwanakijiji's hour long rollercoaster webcast of the brawl, from the intro down to the Melody taarab tunes.I went even further to viewing Mr. Wangwe's video clip of his harangues on that august floor. I must say the back and forthing in the arguments and counter arguments will leave many a heart unchanged, and many a careful observers with the worst possible prognosis.

I will not mince words, if it was a battle of wits and oratory Tundu Lissu tried his best, but Chacha Wangwe is a master of the counter attack and the jujitsu of flinging arguments and words at his opponent like a domino.However confusing, I came out with the following.

This squabble exposed that it is true Chacha Wangwe is not party leadership material.All political correctness aside I am not wondering why is CHADEMA's top brass ousting him now, I am wondering how did they put up with him for so long and how did he even get there.

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You say firmly with an affirmative tone! i quote you once again "...it is true Chacha Wangwe is not party leadership material...", but what you hide and you didn't want to give us a favor is, how did you reach to this solid conclusion of of a self proclaimed truth that Chacha Wangwe is not a party leadership material, tell us what wrong has he done?, what has he done, that carries the weight of being pushed aside in such a manner?!!!!!!!, Lisu has come with those accusation including that of i quote him "The Wangwe he knew is not the Wangwe he saw that day", which in the other sense meant that Wangwe is not a good leader, but if you well analyse that accusation you will see that, they are really abstract , where is the really evidence that Wangwe did (a)this (b) that? ,

2.Although Chacha Wangwe is no party leadership material, he is a passionate Shakesperean Fool a necessary and effective clown who tells the truth in a clownish way and delivers the message. I was watching his bunge clip (thanks to Kuhani) and in analysing what he said came with the conclusion that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with what he sadi, the core subjects of what he was talking about were very valid and the Tanzanian people actually need to have MPs who can speak up for them. But I have to say the delivery was less than mediocre, it was actually horrible, to the extent of giving Speaker Sitta ammunition to make Wangwe rescind his ad libbing (thats what it was) that the government is run by Indians. He was colloquial and impromptu, with no preparation whatsoever. Presentation zero, presentation can make or break your case.In this case he was taken lass seriously on some very serious matters.Those who know a Shakespearean fool will recognize him as one.

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As passionate as you may be and "Shakespearen wise" as you may not be, this doesn't make Wangwe a "shakespearen fool" as you want him to be, at least This is not the wrongdoing he committed that carries the heavy punishment of the so called commitee. i can credit you with the good and precise adhominen attack, that is well versed in the language of our beloved Queen, but we all know that politician have some gaffes, it is not strange Wangwe to make some gaffes whether in the parliament or outside the Parliament, but this doesnot make him unfit, it is not a competition of eloquency here, it is a matter of truth, good leadership and accountability based on justified means

3. The loser in this debacle is CHADEMA. The two interviews exposed clear weaknesses on both parts. CHADEMA failed to have a tight vetting process and let this fiery vagabond slip through the cracks to the level of national leadership.This is weak and scary for a party that is the de facto alternative.
In addition to that, Chacha Wangwe has some unimpeachable points in his argument that he is being prosecuted for exposing weakness in his party.Take the tribalism / regionalism charge, out of the six special seats MPs only one can claim not to be closely affiliated with the Chaggas / Kilimanjaro region.Three are Chaggas, one is a Pare, which does not figure in to tribalism if you want to apply that criteria strictly, but as everyone knows the Chaggas and Pares are next door neighbors and this plays into regionalism, the lst one is married to a Chagga, therefore a Chagga-in-law. CHADEMA cannot afford the appearance of tribalism / regionalism let alone the real thing.

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Here you are right, i totally agree with you!,

4. Although this debacle exposes CHADEMA negatively, it also can be argued that it can have the effect of potraying CHADEMA as a party where indiscipline is not tolerated.To expounge Mr. Wangwe at this point may not be a politically savvy move, but as Tundu Lissu pointed out, it was based on upholding principles.If a party has so much respect for principles such as collective responsibility to the extent of sacrificing it's political clout, I give more power to it for that, not less. CHADEMA can now shine in the wake of anticipated ridicule andcapitalization based on this debacle and claim that at least it is not in the habit of "kulindana" and tolerating indiscipline in its ranks.

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This doesnot necessary portray democracy in chadema!, it can instead portray chaos, bias, it can portray a party which doesnot do their homework well, To charge and dismiss leaders based on rumours!, this doesnot reflect elements of maturity, To dismiss a leader is not an issue, the issue is to dismiss The bad leader based on evidence, truth and wisdom

Overall, CHADEMA shines more than it lose, a Swahili saying "Heri nusu shari kuliko shari kamili" may summarize the CHADEMA rationale, that we erred in letting Mr. Wangwe climb the leadership ladder, but we cannot let his ill behavior continue to sabotage the party. We can deal with his controversial ousting, what we cannot deal with is the unpredictable outcome of inaction.

For that CHADEMA should be congratulated.

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chadema shouldnot be congratulated, they should be asked hard question and be told the truth

WHAT WRONG DID CHACHA WANGWE DO?, AND WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE OF WHAT HE DID?.
WAS THIS THE ONLY BEST OPTION OR THEIR COULD BE THE OTHER BETTER OPTION?, WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THE FIRST OPTION AND DISMISS THE OTHER?

Msikilizeni Wangwe yeye mwenyewe akielezea kilichotokea na msikilize majibu yake.

Gamba,

If you are a loose canon with no communication skills you will do more harm than good to the party.Do you dispute that Chacha Wangwe is a loose canon with no communication skills?

Gembe said:

Aliyekula Pesa za Chama ni Wangwe au Mbowe?

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Benjamin William Mkapa!

Kuhani said:

Mkuu,

Umechanganya madawa.

Sijawahi kujadili rangi ya Obama jamvini hapa.

Hebu weka nukuu basi. Unless umechanganya majina. Angalia kama umefagia virus na malware nyingine, labda kuna technical issue, or something.

What are you talking about?

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Wewe ya kwako iko wapi niliposema mimi ni JF Mtandao? Usianze kuomba nukuu kutoka kwa watu wengine wakati wewe mwenyewe una deni....

Pundit said:

Gamba,

If you are a loose canon with no communication skills you will do more harm than good to the party.Do you dispute that Chacha Wangwe is a loose canon with no communication skills?

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no sir i dont accept that!, what wrong did he do?. if communication skill is the only qualification for leadership then Mute people are automatically excluded from offering services to their community even if they can!. sweet talk is different from actions, to me gaffes can be an issue sometimes but not all the time, what i want to see is whether some body can deliver or not!
lack of eloquency or gaffes can not be a reason to punish Wangwe or push him aside.

To call wangwe a loose canon in your own sense can not be a loose canon at all, instead it can be a person who view things on his own way and who is ready to stand and air his opinion without fear of the chairman's whip!

BUT AGAIN WHAT WRONG DID CHACHA WANGWE DO?, I THINK THE ANSWER WONT BE HE IS GOODMAN VERSUS BAD MAN, WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE THAT HE IS A BAD LEADER, THAT HE DESERVE TO BE PUSHED ASIDE?

Tundu Lisu say he is still a friend of Wangwe and he is ready to help Wangwe in his case (election case), but the question is if this man doesnot fit to push forward chadema's agenda through his position of vice chairman, and in Tundu Lisu's own words that this man conpires against his own party then why still support him to win the constituency through the ticket of your own party which you openly declare that the man conspires against?

THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE " RUZUKU", wangwe Goes Ruzuku goes,