Je! ni kweli dunia inazunguka jua?

[Chief-Mkwawa]

Bado sijaielewa hiyo picha yako. Ntafikiria zaidi. Kuhusu NASA, katika link uliyoweka hakuna sehemu wanasema inajilt kwa kubadili angle ya axis. Hakuna. Nanukuu moja ya paragraph katika page uliyolink "As Earth orbits the sun, its tilted axis always points in the same direction. So, throughout the year, different parts of Earth get the sun’s direct rays."

Labda hii paragraph yao inakuchanganya..."Sometimes it is the North Pole tilting toward the sun (around June) (dunia yangu ya bluu inapokuwa kulia) and sometimes it is the South Pole tilting toward the sun (around December) (Dunia yangu inapokuwa kushoto)." ila angalia angle ya axis haibadiliki.

yap hapo then inamaana part ya kaskazini ambayo ni ya juu itainama right? tofauti na miezi mingine. je muda huu direction ya jua inachange? kwenye northern hemisphere?

 

[Magembe R. Malima]

hii mada ni part ya geocentric/heliocentric wanapopingana, ambaye yupo katikati ndie anaezungukwa

Sawa. Sasa tuendelee ku-clear doubts juu ya dunia kuzunguka jua.

 

[Magembe R. Malima]

yap hapo then inamaana part ya kaskazini ambayo ni ya juu itainama right? tofauti na miezi mingine. je muda huu direction ya jua inachange? kwenye northern hemisphere?

Hapana hiyo part ya juu haitainama katika wakati fulani bali iko hivyo imeinama siku zote. Angalia hiyo animation uone kama angle ya mhimili/axis inachange. We unaona inachange?

Iko vilevile isipokuwa kwa jinsi tilt ilivyo ikiwa kulia kwa jua lililo stationary northern hemisphere inakuwa exposed zaidi kwa kuwa upande huo unakuwa umeelekea zaidi jua, katika nusu nyingine ya mwaka dunia (ya bluu ktk animation) inakuwa kushoto (angle ya axis iko vilevile) ila northern hemisphere inakuwa less exposed.

Tazama vizuri hiyo animation. Unamaanisha nini direction ya jua inachange?? Kumbuka dunia inaendelea kuspin kwenye axis.

 

[Chief-Mkwawa]

Hapana hiyo part ya juu haitainama katika wakati fulani bali iko hivyo imeinama siku zote. Angalia hiyo animation uone kama angle ya mhimili/axis inachange.

We unaona inachange? Iko vilevile isipokuwa kwa jinsi tilt ilivyo ikiwa kulia kwa jua lililo stationary northern hemisphere inakuwa exposed zaidi kwa kuwa upande huo unakuwa umeelekea zaidi jua, katika nusu nyingine ya mwaka dunia (ya bluu ktk animation) inakuwa kushoto (angle ya axis iko vilevile) ila northern hemisphere inakuwa less exposed.

Tazama vizuri hiyo animation. Unamaanisha nini direction ya jua inachange?? Kumbuka dunia inaendelea kuspin kwenye axis.

yap mchoro wako unaelezea vizuri angalia kwa makini na chukulia axis kama uso. dunia ikiwa kulia kwa jua axis inakuwa kama imeinamia jua. dunia ikiwa kushoto kwa jua axis inakuwa imeipa mgongo jua. then kutokana na observation hii turudi kwenye ile michoro yetu miwili.


kipindi axis imeinamia jua then mtu wa kawaida angeliona jua kwa style hii

kipindi axis imeipa mgongo jua then alitakiwa aone kitu hichi

lakini badala yake haoni anaona vile vile kama picha ya juu hivyo kutengeneza weakness kwenye hii theory

 

[ISLETS]

Chief-Mkwawa,

Kiukweli hizo quotations hazisemi kuwa dunia haimove.. zinaonesha tu uhusika na uwezo wa Mungu katika uumbaji... hapo utaona Ayubu na Daudi hakimpa Mungu sifa kulingana na wao walivyoifahamu dunia.

 

[elmagnifico]

Chief-Mkwawa,

If they don,t believe others, why should we believe what they are saying. Ina maana Mrussia, Mchina, mhindi, Mkorea, mnigeria, Britain na USA wote waliungana kutupga kanyaboya.

Yani wote hao wanaodai wana satelites angani ni waongo?

 

[elmagnifico]

[QUOTE=Chief-Mkwawa,

Still i dont see where it says the earth does not rotate nor revolve. What I see is that God created the earth to be strong that it cannot be destroyed by anybody.

 

[ymollel]

The main logic ni kwamba. chochote kilichopo katika uso wa dunia tayari kinazunguka na dunia. hivyo basi kwa vile sote tunazunguka huwezi kuona kwamba tunazunguka.

Hivyo basi hata gari likiwa limesimama lakini linazunguka pamoja na dunia. hata ndege nayo kama imesimama tayari inazunguka na dunia. hata ndege ikiwa angani tayari inazunguka na dunia.

Hata ikiwa inaenda opposite direction bado tu inazunguka na dunia...

 

[Mtangoo]

Pia haya madai ya ooh Biblia ooh Korani imesema hivi ni janga kweli

Ni Janga kivipi? Biblia ina claim many scientific stuffs Here are few:
1. Cosmology
2. Oceanography
3. Biology

Na katika kila claim imethibitisha. Ktk quote yangu unayoinukuu (bila kusema lakini iko implied) nimeweka nini Mungu kasema na kuwa kimethibitishwa. Sasa kama kitu kimesemwa na kimethibitishwa basi si Biblia bali wewe ndio janga!

.. vitabu hivi ni vya falsafa si sayansi hivyo baadhi ya vitu vinaelezwa humo ili binadamu apate picha fulani juu ya jambo fulani kwa sababu fulani NA SI KUTOA TAARIFA SAHIHI juu ya jambo la kisayansi.

Biblia sio kitabu cha kiada ama ziada cha sayansi wal historia wala falsafa. Lakini pia kinaongelea mambo haya na zaidi. Na kila kinapogusa nyanja iko sahihi. Ndio maana haya uliyosema ni maoni mfu na yanafaa kupuuzwa!

Mimi ni Mkristo.

Mungu wako ambaye hata sayansi hajui, anajua falsafa tu, hawezi kuwa Mungu wa Biblia anayejua yote. Inabidi ujiangalie upya. Mkristo gani usiyeamini kitabu kinachokupa huo ukristo wako?

Na kama mungu wako hawezi kusema kwa usahihi juu ya mambo ya muda kama haya, kuna haja ya kumuamini anaposema mambo ya milele?

Kama kweli ni mkristo then unahitaji kuongeza juhudi yako ya kujifunza na kukiamini hicho kitabu chako. Vinginevyo unaelekea kubaya sana!

KAMA BADO KUNA SHAKA YOYOTE KARIBU UULIZE SWALI.

Unaiamini Biblia asilimia ngapi?

 

[jogi]

Kizunguzungu, kichinachina, kiboko haram haram.

 

[Magembe R. Malima]

Stefano Mtangoo,

Stefano, kwanza nisingependa kujiengage na mabishano/mjadala na wewe kwa kuwa una jazba. Pili sijakurefer wewe juu ya Biblia kwakuwa madai ya "Biblia ime...." hujayaanzisha wewe, nayasikia kila leo..pia madai ya Korani kuwa ime... hayajaanzishwa na thread hii bali ni mijadala iliyo sehemu nyingi kweli. Fuatilia. Hivyo kama shaka yako ni kuwa nimekurefer hivyo unalazimika kujitetea kwa nguvu za nyuklia basi rudisha silaha zako ghalani maana sipigani vita na wewe.

Ninachosema ni janga si Biblia wala Korani. Janga ninalosema, ni tabia ya kutaka kuhalalisha mitizamo ama yaliyosemwa na misahafu hii kwa kuilinganisha na facts za kisayansi. Si makusudio ya vitabu hivi kulandana na sayansi. Kwa mfano vitu kama malaika, shetani, roho, kufufua wafu vinazungumzwa katika Biblia lakini si vitu ambavyo sayansi inavikubali. Hivyo janga ni jaribio au majaribio ya kulandanisha misahafu na si misahafu yenyewe au facts fulani za misahafu hiyo.

Kuhusu Ukristo wangu uache kama ulivyo, kama nitahitaji msaada wowote nitakwambia, kwa sasa nisingependa unisaidie hasa kwa approach zako. Sijaeleza popote kuwa nina mashaka na Biblia (japo ni halali yangu kuwa na mashaka hayo kama nina sababu za kuwa na mashaka hayo), bali ninachosema maelezo ya misahafu hukusudia kupeleka ujumbe fulani wala si kuelezea facts za kisayansi. Dini inajadilika lakini hakutakiwi kuwe na jazba, kama uko short-tempered basi bora tukashangilie Azam na Simba.

Mwisho tusiharibu thread za watu na religious fanaticism zetu.. tutakutana jukwaa husika la Dini ama Great Thinkers tutajadili kwa kina juu ya "Ukristo wangu" na uzuzu wa "mungu" wangu. Vinginevyo, turudi kwenye mada. Hivi hii michoro aliyoweka Chief Mkwawa unaweza kunifafanulia maana sijaielewa?

 

[Mtangoo]

Stefano, kwanza nisingependa kujiengage na mabishano/mjadala na wewe kwa kuwa una jazba.

My point is made, take it or throw it!
Case closed!

 

[Magembe R. Malima]

My point is made, take it or throw it!
Case closed!

Your point is made, I have to take it or throw it! Case closed!

Excellent!!! Uko juu kaka!! Sasa turudi kwenye mada, hebu niambie hiyo michoro ya Chief-Mkwawa umeielewa? Maana naona anajichanganya juu ya movement za jua. Umemuelewa?

 

[Mtangoo]

Your point is made, I have to take it or throw it! Case closed!

Choice is yours!

Excellent!!! Uko juu kaka!!

Nope! Here down on earth!

Sasa turudi kwenye mada, hebu niambie hiyo michoro ya Chief-Mkwawa umeielewa? Maana naona anajichanganya juu ya movement za jua. Umemuelewa?

What causes day and night? Supposed sun revolves around the earth. Given Sun's orbit length how long is day and night supposed to be?

 

[Mtangoo]

Some food for thought
The Institute for Creation Research
https://answersingenesis.org/creationism/arguments-to-avoid/geocentrism-and-creation/
http://facstaff.gpc.edu/~pgore/Earth&Space/GPS/solarsystem.html

 

[Magembe R. Malima]

Choice is yours!

Kwa nia ya kupeleka "ujumbe maalum na kwa sababu maalum" my choice is neither taking it nor throwing it but rather "Case closed!"

What causes day and night? Supposed sun revolves around the earth. Given Sun's orbit length how long is day and night supposed to be?

What causes day and night is the rotation of the earth on its axis for 24 hours. Given sun's orbit length, given the earth is still, then the length (in hours) of day and night combined is the length of the orbit divided by the velocity/speed of revolution. This means the length of either day or night is half the time the sun takes to revolve around the earth.

 

[Mtangoo]

What causes day and night is the rotation of the earth on its axis for 24 hours

Check the links. Geocentricism, if I well read it, means earth is stationary!

 

[Magembe R. Malima]

Check the links. Geocentricism, if I well read it, means earth is stationary!

Will read them and then I will give my opinion.. but what's your position, Helio or Geo?

Update: I have read the first of the three links you have directed me to.. will read the rest later, currently fighting for "my daily bread." The guy in there, Gerald A. Aardsma, Ph.D., was saying all that he said so that he can finally conclude: "This is the way it is with scientific theories-they come and go. But the Word of God endures forever. Let us be immovable in upholding what the Bible clearly teaches." I will give my two cents later.

BTW. I wonder if other people are comfortable with us discussing in English, we could be alienating people here!! So I will respond in Swahili instead, and in English if I find it necessary. But first I am curious to know if you are in for Geo or Helio!!

 

[Mtangoo]

Will read them and then I will give my opinion.. but what's your position, Helio or Geo?

Geo does not make sense to me, so you know what I have!

Update: I have read the first of the three links you have directed me to.. will read the rest later, currently fighting for "my daily bread." The guy in there, Gerald A. Aardsma, Ph.D., was saying all that he said so that he can finally conclude: "This is the way it is with scientific theories-they come and go. But the Word of God endures forever. Let us be immovable in upholding what the Bible clearly teaches." I will give my two cents later.

Are you uncomfortable with red statement?
Its okay because God knows all, including whether the Earth is center or not.

BTW. I wonder if other people are comfortable with us discussing in English, we could be alienating people here!! So I will respond in Swahili instead, and in English if I find it necessary. But first I am curious to know if you are in for Geo or Helio!!

Since no one complained.....!

 

[reandle]

limetumbuka,

Mfano, nipo juu ya gari then nikaruka juu basi gari litaniacha na mimi nitadondoka chini, iweje ndege imeruka ipo juu uniambie ipo duniani bado?

halafu na satelite (man made sio sayari) si zipo juu ya dunia why hatuzigongi?

Mie sio mtalaamu wa jiografia... ckupata bahati ya kuisoma angalau to A-Level lakini ngoja tutumie akili ya kawaida! Let's assume kwamba gari unayoizungumza ni kubwa sana, kwa mapana na marefu...

let's say ni kama kutoka Dar hadi Mwanza kwa upana na urefu... assumption is based on the fact kwamba hata dunia nayo ni kuwa sana!!

Sasa ndo upo juu ya gari, assuming haupo kwenye ncha kabisa ya gari husika huku nikijaribu kuamini kwamba hata humu duniani tunamoishi si kwamba tupo nchani! Sasa ukiwa juu ya hilo gari (kubwa), unaamua kuruka! Je, gari hiyo kubwa itakuwa na kasi gani kiasi kwamba, hadi unadondoka inakuwa tayari imeshakuacha?

Maana yangu ni kwamba, kama utakuwa umesimama, let's umbali wa 1km kutoka kwenye ncha moja ya gari, basi gari liwe limeenda kwa umbali wa zaidi ya 1km kabla hujaondoka ndipo utaweza kudondokea nje ya eneo la gari!!!

Tukichukua mfano huo kisha tukaupeleka kwenye principles za wana-jiografia, ni kwamba hata utakaporuka na ndege, kutokana na ukubwa wa dunia bado utakuwa around and within the earth circumference hata kama utakuwa above it... which means, utakapoamua ama kwa voluntary or involuntarily ku-descend bado utafikia duniani coz' bado ulikuwa around the dunia circumference!

Is like lile gari letu lenye urefu kutoka Dar hadi Mwanza... assume umeruka ukiwa Dodoma wakati sehemu ya gari bado ipo Dar es salaam (almost 500 km) na sehemu nyingine ipo Mwanza lakini gari hiyo inaelekea Kampala!

Sasa wewe ukisharuka, ina maana hata kama utaweza ku-float hewani kwa saa 3, bado ile sehemu ya gari iliyokuwa Dar itakuwa haijakupita... sana sana badala ya kuwa Dar es salaam, itakuwa mbele kidogo ya Morogoro na ili ikupite basi uendelee kuelea kwa saa nyingi zaidi ili hadi kile kipande ambach kipo Morogo kiweze kuvuka Dodoma na hapo ukidondoka, gari ndo itakuwa imekupita!!!