14 September 2026
High of Tanzania
Kivukoni Front
Dar es Salaam, Tanzania
Treason case no. 19605 / 2025
Republic versus Tundu Lissu
PROSECUTOR CROSS-EXAMINES JOHN HECHE IN COURT
PART 1.
THE CASE BEGINS
The Judges are ready in Court. A record massive team of seven state attorneys are ready. The Defendant, Tundu Antipas Lissu, is ready and has entered with the Judges, to avoid having time to speak with the audience.
The Witness, John WagesaHeche, is ready.
9:49 AM
The Court Clerk prepares to read the Criminal Session case, Case No. 19605 of 2025, The Republic versus Tundu Antipas Lissu.
Principal State Attorney, Ajuaye Bilishanga Zegeli, introduces her fellow attorneys:
1. Nassoro Katuga – Principal State Attorney
2. Tawabu Issa – Senior State Attorney
3. Job Mrema – Principal State Attorney
4. Cuthbert Mbilinyi – State Attorney
5. Ignas Mwinuka – Principal State Attorney
6. Waniwa Kasara – State Attorney
Ajuaye Bilishanga Zegeli: Together[7 of us], we represent the Republic.
The Defendant, Tundu Antipas Lissu, is in the dock and represents himself.
The matter has come for defense. We are ready to proceed with the witness DW5 John Heche for cross-examination questions.
Judge Dunstan Ndunguru: Defendant, are you ready?
Tundu Lissu: My Lords, I am ready, let's proceed.
Judge Dunstan Ndunguru: Witness, are you ready?
John Heche: I am ready.
Judge Dunstan Ndunguru: Side of the Republic?
Ajuaye Bilishanga Zegeli: Your Honors, state attorney
Ignas Mwinuka will begin.
PROSECUTION'S QUESTIONS FOR JOHN HECHE
Ignas Mwinuka: Witness DW5, as a candidate, how many elections have you participated in?
John Heche: Your Honors, I have participated in three elections.
Ignas Mwinuka: Would I be correct that out of the three elections you participated in, in two you were declared the winner?
John Heche: Under difficulty conditions, and sadly a number of people were killed.
Ignas Mwinuka: Answer, true or not true?
John Heche: It is true.
Ignas Mwinuka: Would I be correct in saying that the ones you won were the Councillor election in 2008 and the Parliamentary election in 2015?
John Heche : Correct
Ignas Mwinuka: In those two elections that you [Heche], won, please tell us if the Police participated in stuffing ballots votes into ballot boxes.
John Heche: The Police have never helped opponents, Your Honors.
Ignas Mwinuka: In those two elections that you [Heche], won, please tell us if agents were prevented.
John Heche: Agents of which side?
Ignas Mwinuka: Were agents of other parties prevented so that you could win?
John Heche: No.
Ignas Mwinuka: You said in 2020 you were not declared by NEC [National Election Commission]?
John Heche: Yes.
Ignas Mwinuka: Do you acknowledge that the results are being challenged in the High Court?
John Heche: I acknowledge it.
Ignas Mwinuka: Please tell us, regarding the 2020 results where you were not declared a winner by NEC, did you go to challenge them in Court?
John Heche: The election was disrupted nationwide, Your Honors.
Ignas Mwinuka: I'm talking about your constituency. Did you go to [court to] challenge it?
John Heche: I didn't challenge it.
Ignas Mwinuka: Please tell us, did you fill out the electoral forms? You have run three times. Would I be correct that one of the criteria for you to run is to correctly fill out the forms?
John Heche: It is one of the criteria; there are many criteria.
Ignas Mwinuka: Would I be correct in saying that you correctly filled out the forms to the extent that you were able to become a Member of Parliament...
John Heche: One of the criteria.
Ignas Mwinuka: Which you fulfilled?
John Heche: That is correct
PART 2:
Ignas Mwinuka: In your evidence you said he was barred from running because he did not fill out the form.
John Heche: I didn't say form.
Ignas Mwinuka: What did you say?
John Heche: I said he was removed.
Judge Dunstan Ndunguru: Let's go slowly.
Ignas Mwinuka: Why was he removed?
John Heche: Because of the [NEC]Commission's being oppressive [instrument].
Ignas Mwinuka: Did you personally fill out the Suzan Kiwanga forms?
John Heche : No.
Ignas Mwinuka: Did you personally fill out the forms for Members of Parliament and Councillors in the 2020 elections?
John Heche : No.
Ignas Mwinuka: Would I be correct in saying that you heard from other candidates?
John Heche: No. for us running for constituency we were in the hall, filling it together.
Ignas Mwinuka: So you were filling out the forms together?
John Heche: No. We were filling out forms together in the hall.
Ignas Mwinuka: Did you explain in your primary evidence?
John Heche : No.
THE INCIDENT OF THE ATTACK ON TUNDU LISU – 7 SEPTEMBER 2017
Ignas Mwinuka: Let's now move to the incident of the attack on the Defendant [Tundu Antipas Lissu] , the issue of 7 September 2017. Do you remember that the then President, John Pombe Magufuli, condemned the incident of the Defendant being attacked?
John Heche: I don't remember.
Ignas Mwinuka: Do you remember the then CCM's Secretary for Ideology and Publicity, [
Humphrey] Polepole, issuing a statement of regret and condemnation of the incident on behalf of CCM?
John Heche: you mean Humphrey Polepole, this former ambassador who was abducted?
Ignas Mwinuka: Do you remember the Speaker of Parliament, Job Ndugai, issuing a statement of regret and condemnation of the incident on behalf of Parliament?
John Heche: I remember, and he even formed a committee to investigate under MP Adadi Rajabu* [the former DCI]* .
16 Sept 2005 — On 14 September, Director of Criminal Investigation (DCI) Adadi Rajabu told journalists in Dar es salaam that the committee will conduct a ...
IFEX
Police committee to investigate beating of journalist, human rights activist and ...
Ignas Mwinuka: Do you remember the then Vice President [Samia Suluhu Hassan ] issuing a statement condemning the incident?
John Heche: I remember, and she went to the hospital [to visit Tundu Lissu in hospital].
Ignas Mwinuka: When you say the noteboom was removed, were you there?
John Heche: I didn't say notebook was removed .
Ignas Mwinuka: Did we capture you saying there was a doctor?
John Heche: I said there was a register for the visitors at gate, kept by security guards.
Ignas Mwinuka: Were you at the scene?
John Heche: I wasn't there.
Ignas Mwinuka: I heard you say there was a car tailing him from behind. Did you see it?
John Heche: I heard that from the Defendant himself.
Ignas Mwinuka: So it's tell tell news?
John Heche: I heard it from the Accused himself.
Ignas Mwinuka: You have explained about the parliamentary privileges that he [Tundu Lissu] should have been given, did he ever tell you that he had given you the task of following up his privileges?
John Heche: I was on the CHADEMA caucus Parliamentary Committee that monitored the rights and interests of our MPs.
Ignas Mwinuka: Did you explain that or not?
John Heche: I wasn't asked.
Ignas Mwinuka: Of all the murders you mentioned, how many did you witness with your own eyes?
John Heche: Chacha Isangora and Chacha Marwa ...... [continue to mention names other people who were killed]
Ignas Mwinuka: Don't go there yet, just tell me when you gave evidence how many murders did you say there were?
John Heche: I didn't say.
Ignas Mwinuka: In Arumeru, did you mention the name of who died?
John Heche: I mentioned the one Msafiri Mbwambo.
Ignas Mwinuka: Were you there and did you witness the murders?
John Heche: I wasn't there.
The Republic side is conducting a cross-examination on the Vice Chairman, Hon. John Heche.
Ignas Mwinuka: Who did you mention [names] during the Wenje by-elections who was killed in Rorya?
John Heche: Nyatega Wenje.
Ignas Mwinuka: Did you witness the killers carrying out the murders?
John Heche: I wasn't there.
Ignas Mwinuka: Do you first recognize the legal needs to know the cause of death, must be that confirmed by a professional report?
John Heche: Correct
Ignas Mwinuka: For the murders that you have described about do you know the Causes of death?
John Heche: I did not use medical report
Ignas Mwinuka: In all the murders you described, have you personally participated as a witness in the examination of the bodies, i.e. Postmortem?
John Heche: I did not explain.
Ignas Mwinuka: Let's go back to the kidnapping and disappearance issues, have you personally witnessed someone being kidnapped with your own eyes?
John Heche: With my own eyes, I have never witnessed one.
Ignas Mwinuka: Have you ever witnessed someone disappearing?
John Heche: No.
Ignas Mwinuka: What was CHADEMA's position on the judge Mohamed Chande [Inquiry] report?
John Heche: We did not trust it and it was created in an environment where we knew it would not be public nor was transparency involved.
Ignas Mwinuka: With that position, CHADEMA did not cooperate with the Judge Mohamed Chande's Inquiry commission?
John Heche: Correct.
Ignas Mwinuka: Let's come to these reports. From last year's [2025 ]general elections, what did the East African team of Observers say?
John Heche: The elections were good, fair and did not have any problems. That's what the East African Community EAC said.
Ignas Mwinuka: You didn't explain where you got these reports?
John Heche: I said in the media and social networks.
Ignas Mwinuka: You didn't explain the language used in those reports?
John Heche: I didn't explain in what language it was written.
Ignas Mwinuka: In what language was the Thabo Mbeki Foundation* written?
The Thabo Mbeki Foundation remains dedicated to the achievement of the African Renaissance..
Thabo Mbeki Foundation
mbeki.org
Thabo Mbeki Foundation
John Heche: English.
Ignas Mwinuka: What language was this one from the UN?
John Heche: What I saw was English.
Ignas Mwinuka: what about the one from the Commonwealth of Nations?
The Commonwealth is a voluntary association of 56 independent and equal countries, working together to advance prosperity, democracy and peace...
thecommonwealth.org
The Commonwealth is a voluntary association of 56 independent and equal countries, working together to advance prosperity, democracy and peace for 2.7 billion people.
thecommonwealth.org
Commonwealth
John Heche: English
Ignas Mwinuka: World Council of Churches?
John Heche: English.
Ignas Mwinuka: African Union AU statement?
John Heche: English.
Ignas Mwinuka: SADC election Observers too?
John Heche: English.
Ignas Mwinuka: Would you agree with me that you were the one who translated [observers' reports] from English to Swahili here in Court?
John Heche : Correct.
Ignas Mwinuka: You have not explained your competence or language proficiency from English to Swahili?⁷
John Heche: I was not asked.
NB. Now state attorney Nassoro Katuga raises up. Public gallery in court eagerly wait to hear cross examination questions from revered state counsel Nassoro Katuga
Ignas Mwinuka: In interpreting the language, can the meaning of a report be distorted due to the competence of the interpreter?
John Heche: I don't know.
Ignas Mwinuka: Since all the reports are in English, did you request to present them here in Court?
John Heche: It is not my responsibility, I explained them.
Ignas Mwinuka: Are you not the addressee?
John Heche: They [Elections observers Reports ]were presented to all Tanzanians and I am part of Tanzanians.
Ignas Mwinuka: So we don't know if you have taken something from Chartgpt or what?
John Heche: I told you I got it from the [mainstream] media.
Ignas Mwinuka: Is it true that currently all senior CHADEMA leaders are facing charges in court?
John Heche: Many have been charged
Ignas Mwinuka: Leaders of other parties also have cases in court?
John Heche: I can not know the information of other parties.
Ignas Mwinuka: That is why you say you are being oppressed.
I have no other question.
From the public gallery in the court, it seems like Ignas Mwinuka is like he is very worried, I don't know what the problem is. Now, Nassoro Katuga is standing ..
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HBOmxa51cC0
Nassoro Katuga: You said you are 45 years old, will I be correct if I call you one of the young turks *[agitating for change] ?
John Heche: It is Okay
Nassoro Katuga: Is your father's name Charles Heche?
John Heche: Yes
Nassoro Katuga: What level of education do you have?
John Heche: University, Bachelor of Education.
Nassoro Katuga: Did you go directly to study for a Degree?
John Heche: First, I studied for a Diploma and then a Degree.
Nassoro Katuga : Did you get a [low achievement] Division 4 form four?
John Heche: Be serious, could I have gone to study at a government school the revered Musoma Alliance for advance level with a division four ?.
Nassoro Katuga: Do you know one Suguta David Heche?
John Heche: I have many younger siblings. My father had 8 wives. I have many younger siblings.
Nassoro Katuga: He was sick and was sent to India and by the way who paid for him?
John Heche: That's right [Suguta was sick], my family and I helped him.
Nassoro Katuga: Did you say you do other work as well ?
John Heche: I didn't say.
The Republic is conducting a Cross-Examination on Vice Chairman Hon. John Heche.
Nassoro Katuga: Do you get an allowance or a salary from CHADEMA party ?
John Heche: I don't get paid anything.
Nassoro Katuga: Do you have trucks operating in Kenya?
John Heche: I don't have trucks
Nassoro Katuga: Do you have cheap cars?
John Heche: How much is cheap?
Nassoro Katuga: I'll show you some motor vehicle registration cards here, tell me how many cars you have?
John Heche: Now there are tractors and some farm vehicles here, what's the problem?
Nassoro Katuga: So how many Mitsubishis and other cars do you have?
John Heche: You have four
Nassoro Katuga: At first you said you had two?
John Heche: At first you asked about cheap cars and I told you two. Now a car that worth 10 million Tanzanian shillings toyota crowns is also a cheap price? Or what is a cheap price for you?
Nassoro Katuga: now, party Vice chairman [John Heche], when you receive party money, where do you send it?
John Heche: Now you say I receive money? Didn't I tell you that the Secretary General is the one who receives it.
Nassoro Katuga: Where did you send the money you received from Nilesh * ?
*Tanzanian businessman Nilesh Suchak (owner of State Oil)
John Heche: Who is that Nilesh? I don't know him. Are you [state attorney Katuga] bringing local gossip and rumours before the high court of Tanzania ?
Nassoro Katuga: Do you remember about the TLS * report?
The Tanganyika Law Society (TLS) is the Bar association of Tanzania Mainland, founded in 1954 by an Act of Parliament – the Tanganyika Law Society Ordinance ...
East Africa Law Society
East Africa Law Society was founded in 1995 by Lawyers with the support of the leadership of the member regional Bar Associations .
ealawsociety.org
The Tanganyika Law Society
John Heche: I said the TLS 2026 report.
Nassoro Katuga: Who signed it?
John Heche: Their executive [TLS].
Nassoro Katuga: When you explained about the TLS report, you said 781 [people]were kidnapped?
John Heche: Even judge Mohamed Chande inquiry commission said 700 people their whereabouts is still unknown.
Nassoro Katuga: What language was that report you read in?
John Heche: English
Nassoro Katuga: In 2024 did they issue a kidnapping report?
John Heche: That year they said 83 people, I remember the TLS saying they were kidnapped.
Nassoro Katuga: What year did you say Simon Kanguye was kidnapped?
John Heche: I didn't say when he was kidnapped. But Kanguye was kidnapped in 2016 or 2017, I think.
Nassoro Katuga: Do you know that here in Tanzania there are incidents of kidnappings and killings and burying them existed ?
John Heche: I don't know
Nassoro Katuga: Is there an incident of a woman killing her husband and burying him?
John Heche: I don't know
Nassoro Katuga: Look at Simon Kanguye's statement in the TLS report, his last name. And tell me what the reason is there?
John Heche: He disappeared from the date that mentions him there.
Nassoro Katuga: You know in court it is evidence, we do not do politics.
John Heche: It is evidence.
Nassoro Katuga: Have you ever worked on the investigation into the disappearance of George Kanguye?
John Heche: It's not George, it's Simon
Nassoro Katuga: Have you ever conducted an investigation?
John Heche: I've spoken to his family and they say he hasn't been seen.
Nassoro Katuga: Do you believe the 2024 report? Do you believe it?
John Heche: Now that doesn't include the [Humphrey] Polepoles, the [Nyagali] Mdudes, you don't see many people are in it.
Nassoro Katuga: Do you believe the answer or not?
John Heche: I believe it but things have changed so far.
Nassoro Katuga: Did you tell us where those people who were kidnapped are?
John Heche : You people of the government [criminal justice system], tell us where those you kidnapped are? Tell us now.
Nassoro Katuga: Before you told the judges, did you tell them how he was kidnapped with the evidence of this and that?
John Heche: I didn't say.
Nassoro Katuga: The court is not your mother *, do you know that saying?
* "The Court of Law is not your Mother, it cannot grant reliefs which were not asked.”
John Heche: I am not a lawyer first of all. My mother is called Weisiko and she is at home. The court cannot be my mother. Or are you the court your mother? People
Nassoro Katuga: You mentioned so many people going missing in connection with election matters?
John Heche: I haven't said all of them.
Nassoro Katuga: You said you showed that Kanguye's disappearance is related to the Election Laws?
John Heche: I haven't said anything
Nassoro Katuga: Have you ever seen a family announce [through obituary notice] that our brother is missing?
John Heche: I have seen it.
Nassoro Katuga: Everyone who is not seen is kidnapped?
John Heche: [What do yo mean] Where is he not seen?
Nassoro Katuga: Who told you that he was kidnapped?
John Heche: His wife.
Nassoro Katuga: What is her name?
John Heche: She told me in 2017 that's when I mentioned names.
Nassoro Katuga: So Kanguye was kidnapped, missing or disappeared.
John Heche: We are talking about real people's lives, don't be saddist.
Nassoro Katuga: Do you know that hearsay evidence is inadmissible in court?
John Heche: I told you I read it in the media.
Nassoro Katuga: If you read something in a newspaper, it becomes hearsay?
John Heche: I have information and I have read it [Newspapers], how do you say it is a hearsay now?
Nassoro Katuga: Legally, does your primary evidence relate to the fact in issue?
John Heche: I know.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IiNRq1u7AIA
Part 412 will continue in the next post.
