Majeshi yetu Comoro: Who is responsible?

[Game Theory]

Hiyo pic siyo evidence one way or the othere.How can you tell that he is not a Bacar soldier being escorted to camp after a severe kichapo in the battlefield?

nashauri you take a break kapate walau crisps then urudi..tuache kwanza tupumue

Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War hii hapa:

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

 

[Pundit]

Well, basically they have to be treated humanely. That picture doesnt show that at all. With this age of technology, thats why you see soldiers in Iraq falling in dodoo. Basically, google 'Prisoners of War and the Geneva Convention or treatment'. Its a long article.
Just thought I point that out, as I have read a few of your posts and in this part and you are totally blind to this.

Some Article

Just do a bit of reading. Not all is fair in war!

Nzoka,

I do understand what is the Geneva Convention, it is you who needs to do proper reading.

Hiyo pic siyo evidence one way or the othere.How can you tell that he is not a Bacar soldier being escorted to camp after a severe kichapo in the battlefield?

Vipi kama hiyo picha imepigwa wakati Askari wa AU wanamsindikiza mwanajeshi wa Bacar kwenye kambi ya mateka wa vita? Vipi kama alipigwa kwenye battlefield? Hapo Geneva Convention imekuwa violated?

Vipi kama huyu mtu amekuwa staged ili kupakazia majeshi ya AU?

Vipi kama midamu inatokana na friendly fire zao wenyewe wanajeshi wa Bacar?

Give me some videos clearly capturing abuses and I might consider abuses.As you poignantly pointed out, this is the age of technology when anything, including a Photoshop propaganda war, is possible.

Nilichosema hiyo picha siyo sufficient evidence, haionyeshi kwa mfano, mtu anakuwa abused clearly kama katika zile picha za Abu Ghraib.Inaonyesha tu mtu anatoka damu na yuko chini ya ulinzi.Kwa hiyo kama mnataka kutumia picha hii ku prove abuses it is insufficient.

Sasa nieleze ni vipi sielewi Geneva Convention hapo?

 

[Icadon]

Oh My Gosh!! dude get serious
Friendly fire wakati unaona wanamchapa, angalia sequence ya pictures nilizopost jana alafu useme walikuwa wanamsindikiza....

Maelezo ya picha yanasema wanamsuspect kushirikiana na Bacar, wenyewe hawana uhakika. Hicho kitendo ni cha kulaaaniwa na ninategemea Jeshi, Media na blogs za Tanzania zitakemea vitendo kama hivyo.

 

[Pundit]

Oh My Gosh!! dude get serious
Friendly fire wakati unaona wanamchapa, angalia sequence ya pictures nilizopost jana alafu useme walikuwa wanamsindikiza....

Maelezo ya picha yanasema wanamsuspect kushirikiana na Bacar, wenyewe hawana uhakika. Hicho kitendo ni cha kulaaaniwa na ninategemea Jeshi, Media na blogs za Tanzania zitakemea vitendo kama hivyo.

Circumstantial evidence, immaterial in the court of Judge Pundit. Get some videos, or some verifiable accounts from some neutral and respectable organizations then maybe.

Series of pictures could be depicting anything, a cry for mercy or even a Comoro version of Sindimba for all I know.

 

[Icadon]

Circumstantial evidence, immaterial in the court of Judge Pundit. Get some videos, or some verifiable accounts from some neutral and respectable organizations then maybe.

Series of pictures could be depicting anything, a cry for mercy or even a Comoro version of Sindimba for all I know.

Ha ha...ila wanajeshi wetu wanajulikana kwa kupiga raia kisa ugomvi wa bar au siti kwenye daladala(hili nalo utaomba evidence ya video na picha?) so sitoshangaa kuendeleza hayo matendo huko waliko.

 

[Nzokanhyilu]

Nzoka,

I do understand what is the Geneva Convention, it is you who needs to do proper reading.



Vipi kama hiyo picha imepigwa wakati Askari wa AU wanamsindikiza mwanajeshi wa Bacar kwenye kambi ya mateka wa vita? Vipi kama alipigwa kwenye battlefield? Hapo Geneva Convention imekuwa violated?

Vipi kama huyu mtu amekuwa staged ili kupakazia majeshi ya AU?

Vipi kama midamu inatokana na friendly fire zao wenyewe wanajeshi wa Bacar?

Give me some videos clearly capturing abuses and I might consider abuses.

Nilichosema hiyo picha siyo sufficient evidence, haionyeshi kwa mfano, mtu anakuwa abused clearly kama katika zile picha za Abu Ghraib.Inaonyesha tu mtu anatoka damu na yuko chini ya ulinzi.Kwa hiyo kama mnataka kutumia picha hii ku prove abuses it is insufficient.

Sasa nieleze ni vipi sielewi Geneva Convention hapo?

Pundit, poa, hamna tatizo kama mimi sijaelewa. In life things can turn on you. This has happened to people like Charles Taylor etc. How the USA behaves, we shouldnt compare ourselves. Lakini western news, thats how they are reporting it. Soon you will have Amnesty international all over your face. The USA can handle them, but we are just another african country.

Breitbart.com

AFP

Yahoo News

I could go on and on. It is not what me and you think about it. It is the world at large.

 

[Pundit]

Ha ha...ila wanajeshi wetu wanajulikana kwa kupiga raia kisa ugomvi wa bar au siti kwenye daladala(hili nalo utaomba evidence ya video na picha?) so sitoshangaa kuendeleza hayo matendo huko waliko.

Speculations, unajaribu kuleta kitu kilicho nje ya hii picha.Haya ndiyo mambo ya "Watu weusi wanajulikana wezi, na ofisi hii vitu vinapotea potea tu, na kuna mweusi mmoja tu, basi atakuwa ndiye huyo huyo mwizi"

Hata kama baadhi ya wanajeshi wetu hawana integrity unajuaje kama hawa waliopelekwa huko, hususan hawa walio pichani ndiyo hao?

Circumstantial evidence and speculations mpaka sasa, huja build a credible case bado.

 

[Pundit]

Pundit, poa, hamna tatizo kama mimi sijaelewa. In life things can turn on you. This has happened to people like Charles Taylor etc. How the USA behaves, we shouldnt compare ourselves. Lakini western news, thats how they are reporting it. Soon you will have Amnesty international all over your face. The USA can handle them, but we are just another african country.

Breitbart.com

AFP

Yahoo News

I could go on and on. It is not what me and you think about it. It is the world at large.

Wapi wame report abuse? Wao si ndiyo vinara wa human rights? The reports are flimsy and inconclusive.For all I know you could be right.But do not base that on this pictures and the flimsy reports.Give me something substantial.

Hapa haijulikani wapo wapi, timeline ikoje, circumstances zikoje, it is just a picture.That is why I say in itself it is very inconclusive.

Vitani captives kutiwa mshike mshike mdogo mdogo inaruhusiwa sana, we ulitaka nini under the circumstances? wam pet na Sheraton towels?

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

 

[Kitila Mkumbo]

Pundit: mbona unaonekana haya mambo ya jeshi unayajua kwa nini tena unaelekea kutetea uharamia kwa wananchi? Hizo picha zipo wazi hao sio wanajeshi. Hata ingekuwa wanajeshi wakisha-surrender hawastahili kuwa treated namna ile.

Sasa subiri in the next few days utasikia wazungu watakavyocharuka na hizo human rights unazotaka, inaonekana huwezi kuamini kitu mpaka wazungu waseme, haya wasubiri!

 

[Nzokanhyilu]

Pundit. Umeshinda mkuu. Nadhani wahusika watajua wafikishe ujumbe gani kwa wanajeshi wetu. Ndio maana nikasema 'With this age of technology', nikimaanisha anything can be picked up.

 

[Pundit]

Pundit: mbona unaonekana haya mambo ya jeshi unayajua kwa nini tena unaelekea kutetea uharamia kwa wananchi? Hizo picha zipo wazi hao sio wanajeshi. Hata ingekuwa wanajeshi wakisha-surrender hawastahili kuwa treated namna ile.

Sasa subiri in the next few days utasikia wazungu watakavyocharuka na hizo human rights unazotaka, inaonekana huwezi kuamini kitu mpaka wazungu waseme, haya wasubiri!

Siyo hivyo Mkuu,

Nimesema kuwa picha ziko inconclusive, unajuaje kwamba siyo wanajeshi? Kwa sababu the western media imekwambia (na disclaimer kuwa hata wao wenyewe hawana uhakika)? Nani anayeweka westen media juu sasa?

Inabidi watu wanapoleta claim hapa waje na credible facts na sources.Hiki kipicha na vi caption siyo strong enough ku establish claims za abuse.Kama zikitokea sources zenye facts zinazoonyesha abuse, then tutazijadili upya.Lakini so far hii ni vita tu, nyie mlitaka wanajeshi wetu waende kinyumenyume huku wameweka bunduki zao chini? Kichapo kidogo ndiyo maana ya vita, na inabidi waelewe kung'ang'ania madaraka unconstitutionally kuna consequences.

 

[Kithuku]

African-backed Comoros forces take rebel island
Ahmed Ali Amir , Reuters
Published: Tuesday, March 25, 2008

MORONI (Reuters) - Troops from the Indian Ocean archipelago of Comoros seized the rebel island of Anjouan on Tuesday with African Union military help and the government said its self-declared leader had fled dressed as a woman.


TEST FOR AFRICAN UNION


Spearheading the AU mission are Tanzania and Sudan, which themselves face calls for independence from semi-autonomous Zanzibar and southern Sudan respectively.

Wanasema mengine hapa! Kuwa sisi na wasudani tumekuwa mstari wa mbele kuwatwanga wacomoro wa Anjouan ili siku ikifikia zamu wazanzibari au ya wasudani wa kusini tuweze kuwatwanga ndani kwa ndani "kihalali"! Yaani haya ya Colonel Mohamed Bakar ni kama onyo kwa yeyote atakayejitia kimbelembele huko Zanzibar na Sudani Kusini! Kama hili ni kweli, basi ni kitisho kingine!

 

[Pundit]

Mimi ningependa kuona referrendums, Anjouan,Zanzibar, Darfur, South Sudan, Somaliland,Western Sahara and while on the subject Taiwan,tibet na kwingine kokote wananchi wanakotaka au ku ripotiwa kutaka kujitenga au kujiongoza wenyewe.

I believe in people based territorial integrity, if it is forced it becomes totalitarian.But unless the people state so, the existing territorial borders should be protected at all cost to prevent politicizing issues for a few peoples personal gain.

 

[mukombosi]

Heshima wakuu

Naomba nitoe maoni yangu machache juu ya mjadala mzima wa Issue ya comoro.
1.Nimecheck picha moja hapa+historia+makundi ya kidini(wakristo2%na waislamu98%)+local language ya hawa watu ni swahili yenye vionjo vya kiarabu na geographical postion.Namini hii ni sababu moja iliyomsukuma mhusika kutuma majeshi huko comoro.Kibinadamu hili ni jambo jema sana.Ila naomba mhusika wa oparesheni ajaribu kutuletea MAONI YA WAKRISTO WAISHIO COMMORO JUU YA UTAWALA WA BAKARI NA KIONGOZI MWINGINE YEYOTE hapo commoro.Ni vema tuangaangalia na kulisaidia kundi hili la 2% kwani kwa utafiti wa harakaharaka inaonesha kuwa nchi hii haina historia ya kutawalia na kiongozi mkristo na huenda hata viongzi wooote toka vyama na serikali hamna hata mmmoja amabye ni mkristo.Nasema hivi nikiwa na maana njema tuuu,political instabillit hii ya mapinduzi ya 19times huenda kuna ubaguzi fulafulani ambao MUNGU anataka kuwafundisha kitu hapa wenzetu hawa.Kwa wnaotaka kuivalidate idea hii wapendekeze tuu ina la mkrsito mwenye uwezo awe leader hapo,nadhani atawezatestify vema.Pia nashauri tena nashauri si jambo zuri kwa nchi ambazo ni republic kama tz kuwa na serikali(mfano zanzibar)ambayo viongozi wake woooote ni waislamu wakati kuna kundi kubwa tu la wakrsito na wapagani waishio hapa zanzibar.Hivi hawa wakristo wanafanya nini hapa zenj?au wao ni wasindikizaji?waongozwa?ni vipofu?hawawezi kuongoza?yapo mengi ya kuhoji juu ya hili swala,ila tukae tukaavyo kila mtu ana zake,wacomoro hawalali usingizi leo kwa kukosa amani na utulivu,naaamini haya yote ni matunda ya utawala uliopo awali ulivyolemea upande mmoja.Si vema na si busara hata kidogo,huku hawahawa waongozwa bado wanachangia kodi zao ktk pato la Taifa.Kwanini wasitengwe na huko kulipa kodi?nauliza na ile kasheshe ya sungusungu kuingia kanisani nakukatisha ibada ya ndugu zetu ilishia wapi?hivi ni lini na wakati gani sungusungu waliiingia msikitini na kukatisha swala?hivi hatuoni haya?ni madogo eeeeeeee.anyway..................kesho tutajadili zaidi

2.Nashauri kunaoukuwa na ushiriki wa majeshi yetu ktk majeshi ya Muungano kama haya,ni vema watu wetu wawe wamejipanga na kujiandaa sawia,kwan kuonesha madhaifu yeyote yale ni hatari sana,kwani ktk MUNGANO huohuo wapo wengine ni matraitors.Wataaluma naamini mnapata kitu hapa..........scroll down kwa maelezo zaidi.

Mwisho Tanzania hoyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

[Pundit]

Heshima wakuu

Naomba nitoe maoni yangu machache juu ya mjadala mzima wa Issue ya comoro.
1.Nimecheck picha moja hapa+historia+makundi ya kidini(wakristo2%na waislamu98%)+local language ya hawa watu ni swahili yenye vionjo vya kiarabu na geographical postion.Namini hii ni sababu moja iliyomsukuma mhusika kutuma majeshi huko comoro.Kibinadamu hili ni jambo jema sana.Ila naomba mhusika wa oparesheni ajaribu kutuletea MAONI YA WAKRISTO WAISHIO COMMORO JUU YA UTAWALA WA BAKARI NA KIONGOZI MWINGINE YEYOTE hapo commoro.Ni vema tuangaangalia na kulisaidia kundi hili la 2% kwani kwa utafiti wa harakaharaka inaonesha kuwa nchi hii haina historia ya kutawalia na kiongozi mkristo na huenda hata viongzi wooote toka vyama na serikali hamna hata mmmoja amabye ni mkristo.Nasema hivi nikiwa na maana njema tuuu,political instabillit hii ya mapinduzi ya 19times huenda kuna ubaguzi fulafulani ambao MUNGU anataka kuwafundisha kitu hapa wenzetu hawa.Kwa wnaotaka kuivalidate idea hii wapendekeze tuu ina la mkrsito mwenye uwezo awe leader hapo,nadhani atawezatestify vema.Pia nashauri tena nashauri si jambo zuri kwa nchi ambazo ni republic kama tz kuwa na serikali(mfano zanzibar)ambayo viongozi wake woooote ni waislamu wakati kuna kundi kubwa tu la wakrsito na wapagani waishio hapa zanzibar.Hivi hawa wakristo wanafanya nini hapa zenj?au wao ni wasindikizaji?waongozwa?ni vipofu?hawawezi kuongoza?yapo mengi ya kuhoji juu ya hili swala,ila tukae tukaavyo kila mtu ana zake,wacomoro hawalali usingizi leo kwa kukosa amani na utulivu,naaamini haya yote ni matunda ya utawala uliopo awali ulivyolemea upande mmoja.Si vema na si busara hata kidogo,huku hawahawa waongozwa bado wanachangia kodi zao ktk pato la Taifa.Kwanini wasitengwe na huko kulipa kodi?nauliza na ile kasheshe ya sungusungu kuingia kanisani nakukatisha ibada ya ndugu zetu ilishia wapi?hivi ni lini na wakati gani sungusungu waliiingia msikitini na kukatisha swala?hivi hatuoni haya?ni madogo eeeeeeee.anyway..................kesho tutajadili zaidi

2.Nashauri kunaoukuwa na ushiriki wa majeshi yetu ktk majeshi ya Muungano kama haya,ni vema watu wetu wawe wamejipanga na kujiandaa sawia,kwan kuonesha madhaifu yeyote yale ni hatari sana,kwani ktk MUNGANO huohuo wapo wengine ni matraitors.Wataaluma naamini mnapata kitu hapa..........scroll down kwa maelezo zaidi.

Mwisho Tanzania hoyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Haya sasa huyu naye kashaleta religiuos spin.

We ushaambiwa nchi ina 2% Christians halafu unategemea kuwa na rais mkristo tena, kasome probability kwanza.

 

[Mtu wa Pwani]

Heshima wakuu

Naomba nitoe maoni yangu machache juu ya mjadala mzima wa Issue ya comoro.
1.Nimecheck picha moja hapa+historia+makundi ya kidini(wakristo2%na waislamu98%)+local language ya hawa watu ni swahili yenye vionjo vya kiarabu na geographical postion.Namini hii ni sababu moja iliyomsukuma mhusika kutuma majeshi huko comoro.Kibinadamu hili ni jambo jema sana.Ila naomba mhusika wa oparesheni ajaribu kutuletea MAONI YA WAKRISTO WAISHIO COMMORO JUU YA UTAWALA WA BAKARI NA KIONGOZI MWINGINE YEYOTE hapo commoro.Ni vema tuangaangalia na kulisaidia kundi hili la 2% kwani kwa utafiti wa harakaharaka inaonesha kuwa nchi hii haina historia ya kutawalia na kiongozi mkristo na huenda hata viongzi wooote toka vyama na serikali hamna hata mmmoja amabye ni mkristo.Nasema hivi nikiwa na maana njema tuuu,political instabillit hii ya mapinduzi ya 19times huenda kuna ubaguzi fulafulani ambao MUNGU anataka kuwafundisha kitu hapa wenzetu hawa.Kwa wnaotaka kuivalidate idea hii wapendekeze tuu ina la mkrsito mwenye uwezo awe leader hapo,nadhani atawezatestify vema.Pia nashauri tena nashauri si jambo zuri kwa nchi ambazo ni republic kama tz kuwa na serikali(mfano zanzibar)ambayo viongozi wake woooote ni waislamu wakati kuna kundi kubwa tu la wakrsito na wapagani waishio hapa zanzibar.Hivi hawa wakristo wanafanya nini hapa zenj?au wao ni wasindikizaji?waongozwa?ni vipofu?hawawezi kuongoza?yapo mengi ya kuhoji juu ya hili swala,ila tukae tukaavyo kila mtu ana zake,wacomoro hawalali usingizi leo kwa kukosa amani na utulivu,naaamini haya yote ni matunda ya utawala uliopo awali ulivyolemea upande mmoja.Si vema na si busara hata kidogo,huku hawahawa waongozwa bado wanachangia kodi zao ktk pato la Taifa.Kwanini wasitengwe na huko kulipa kodi?nauliza na ile kasheshe ya sungusungu kuingia kanisani nakukatisha ibada ya ndugu zetu ilishia wapi?hivi ni lini na wakati gani sungusungu waliiingia msikitini na kukatisha swala?hivi hatuoni haya?ni madogo eeeeeeee.anyway..................kesho tutajadili zaidi

2.Nashauri kunaoukuwa na ushiriki wa majeshi yetu ktk majeshi ya Muungano kama haya,ni vema watu wetu wawe wamejipanga na kujiandaa sawia,kwan kuonesha madhaifu yeyote yale ni hatari sana,kwani ktk MUNGANO huohuo wapo wengine ni matraitors.Wataaluma naamini mnapata kitu hapa..........scroll down kwa maelezo zaidi.

Mwisho Tanzania hoyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

mhhh muflisi,hamna kitu ni pumba tupu

 

[WembeMkali]

Mmmmh..sasa hayo mambo gani tena ya kutorture raia au mateka wa kivita huko Comoro? mimi nilifikiri jeshi letu lingekuwa ni mfano kwa majeshi mengine Afrika.Sasa hii inanifanya nihuzunike zaidi.Maana tunakuwa hatuna tofauti na akina Gen.Nkunda wa Congo ambao hufanya ukatili kwa raia kwa kuwabaka,kuwataka masikio na mikono!!! Mmmmh sijui kama tutafika!!!

-Wembe

 

[Pundit]

Mmmmh..sasa hayo mambo gani tena ya kutorture raia au mateka wa kivita huko Comoro? mimi nilifikiri jeshi letu lingekuwa ni mfano kwa majeshi mengine Afrika.Sasa hii inanifanya nihuzunike zaidi.Maana tunakuwa hatuna tofauti na akina Gen.Nkunda wa Congo ambao hufanya ukatili kwa raia kwa kuwabaka,kuwataka masikio na mikono!!! Mmmmh sijui kama tutafika!!!

-Wembe

Kwa wote wanaosema torture naomba watoe uthibitisho, it is a thin line between genuine and legitimate warfare and torture.

 

[Mbalamwezi]

Mmmmh..sasa hayo mambo gani tena ya kutorture raia au mateka wa kivita huko Comoro? mimi nilifikiri jeshi letu lingekuwa ni mfano kwa majeshi mengine Afrika.Sasa hii inanifanya nihuzunike zaidi.Maana tunakuwa hatuna tofauti na akina Gen.Nkunda wa Congo ambao hufanya ukatili kwa raia kwa kuwabaka,kuwataka masikio na mikono!!! Mmmmh sijui kama tutafika!!!

-Wembe

Wembe, napinga kwa nguvu zote vijana wetu, na majeshi mengine kukiuka haki za kibinadamu. Lakini hakuna anayeweza kuwahukumu wanaotokea kwenye picha simply kuwa wanatesa raia. Ndiyo maana pia hao hawawezi kuhukumiwa bila kupitia mahakamani na kuona kama kweli wana hatia.

Mkuu Pundit nakupa dole. Icadon, zitatakiwa evidence that can hold water to convince that the man was indeed under illegal treatment kwa sababu hizo alizoeleza Pundit.
Kuhukumu watu kwa namna hii ndo kunasababisha watu wachomwe moto bongo, kwa kuwa tu kapigiwa kelele za mwizi, hata kama kasingiziwa.

 

[Kasheshe]

Naomba nisaidiwe, niliwa ona thread kwamba maiti zinarudishwa... na wakati huo vita ilikuwa bado... kwa nini lakini watanzania hatuko makini?