Mimi ni mwanabaiolojia na huu hapa ndio uthibitisho wa uhalali wa Mungu(2)

[X_INTELLIGENCE]

nitakuwa wamwisho kuamini kuwa Mungu yupo...kila nilicho wahi kumuomba hakuwahi kabisa kunijibu...huyu Mungu kweli ananipa vitu nisivyo vitaka ninavyo vitaka vyote amenikwepesha kuvipata...uwezi kuamini miaka takribani 12 nina ndoto za kuwa fulani lakini maombi hayo ni bure...sasa naanzaje kuamini uwepo wa Mungu

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Logical non sequitur after logical non sequitur.

If any complexity must be created by a higher complexity, that shows there is no God, not otherwise.

The idea is logical and the evidence I presented is analogical. One who thinks there is God is a sane being. I admit we currently may not have a direct way to present the evidence of the spiritual things in a purely material fashion.

Complexity shows evidence of a higher complexity. An as I have started we can have the pleasure to extend the chain to infinity but mind you. The idea of infinity is itself relative, relative to what our minds we can comprehend as finite beings. There is an absolute end to that chain. And that end my friend, is God.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Hujatoa uthibitisho wowote.

There's no God/gods.

People need something to believe in, anything (a cow, a dog, a rock)

This is itself another evidence, if people need to believe in something higher than them don't you see that they are spiritually being called to respond to their higher purpose?

Angalia siku zote mnataka uthibitisho na kila uthibitisho tunaouweka hamuutaki kwa sababu tu hamtaki kuutambua. Uthibitisho wetu unakuja kulingana na asili yake sio asili unayoitaka wewe. Nitatoa mfano;

 

[Kiranga]

The idea is logical and the evidence I presented is analogical. One who thinks there is God is a sane being. I admit we currently may not have a direct way to present the evidence of the spiritual things in a purely material fashion.

Complexity shows evidence of a higher complexity. An as I have started we can have the pleasure to extend the chain to infinity but mind you. The idea of infinity is itself relative, relative to what our minds we can comprehend as finite beings. There is an absolute end to that chain. And that end my friend, is God.

If complexity shows evidence of a higher complexity, that shows there cannot be a God creator of all.

Because, that God will need a higher complexity to exists, which will show that that God is not God.

So, if complexity A is evidence of an even higher complexity that created complexity A, and God is complex, then the existence of that complex God will need a higher complexity to explain it, and therefore, tgat God will not be the beginning of all, therefore that said God will not be God at all.

Your complexity argument shows God the creator of all cannot exist, not otherwise.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

n...kila nilicho wahi kumuomba hakuwahi kabisa kunijibu...huyu Mungu kweli ananipa vitu nisivyo vitaka ninavyo vitaka vyote amenikwepesha kuvipata...uwezi kuamini miaka takribani 12 nina ndoto za kuwa fulani lakini maombi hayo ni bure...sasa naanzaje kuamini uwepo wa Mungu

Maombi yako yanatakiwa yawe sambamba na mapenzi yake, usifanye kosa la kutaka kumpangia Mungu cha kufanya.

 

[masdinero masproblemas]

Angalia, bila lengo la kutengeneza kitu tata kitu hicho hakitokei. Sikia bila lengo unaweza tu kutengeneza kitu rahisi, I mean kitu sahili at best. Kiukweli mara nyingi random processes huwa zinatusaidia kuharibu mifumo tata iliyopoteza lengo la kuwepo kwake.

Mfano mzuri ni kiumbe anapokufa, I mean pale uhai unapoondoka, nafsi inapouacha mwili kinachotokea ni kusambaratika tu kutokana na kwamba lile lengo la kuwepo kwa mfumo ndio limeshaondoka. Hata kama mishipa ipo, ubongo na moyo upo kila kitu kipo lakini bila lengo kuu la kuwepo kwake --- vyote vinaoza. Moyonhauwezintu kuamua kuendelea kupampu damu kupeleka kwenye ubongo bila sababu ya msingi

Ukisema kitu hakitokei bila lengo unakuwa umepuuzia mambo mengi sana. Co² inavyojaa huko angani haitokei kwa vile tumelenga kujiumiza. Hiyo ni byproduct(au waste) ya kazi mbalimbali. Kuna waste nyingi sana kila sehemu. Uwepo wetu hapa haukuwa na lengo lolote bali imetokana na mjumuisho matukio mbalimbali ambayo nayo hayakuwa na malengo ya sisi kuwa hapa. Mfano mdogo tu: Wakati jeshi la marekani linaanzisha intaneti hawakulenga kitu kama jf kitokee! Vitu hutokea. Lengo la kansa ni nini? Lengo la viumbe hai duniani toka mabilioni ya miaka iliyopita ni nini? Maswali haya huwezi kujibu kisayansi kwa sababu mfumuko wa vitu umekuwa mkubwa kiasi cha kupoteza uhalisia wake. Pia majibu yatakuwa subjective sana kutokana na randomness.

Hatahivyo, kukatisha tatizo na kukimbilia mambo ya imani ni kutua mzigo wa kisayansi wa kudadisi na kukubali ukomo wa ufahamu pale unapofikiwa. Bado najiuliza mwanabaiolojia unawezaje kuwa na dhana ya roho. Hiki kipengele ndio utelezo unawashusha hata watoa huduma wa afya kufikia hatua ya kuwaelekeza wagonjwa kuelekea kwenye mambo ya ajabu ajabu baada ya kukosa suluhisho la tatizo. Njia za mikato kama kukimbilia mambo ya miungu na roho kwa mwanasayansi ni aibu na kujidhalilisha.

 

[X_INTELLIGENCE]

Maombi yako yanatakiwa yawe sambamba na mapenzi yake, usifanye kosa la kutaka kumpangia Mungu cha kufanya.

akuna Mungu...amini nakwambia

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Ukisema kitu hakitokei bila lengo unakuwa umepuuzia mambo mengi sana. Co² inavyojaa huko angani haitokei kwa vile tumelenga kujiumiza. Hiyo ni byproduct(au waste) ya kazi mbalimbali. Kuna waste nyingi sana kila sehemu...

Halafu mbele unakuja kuuliza lengo la kansa ni nini, sikia ijapokuwa kansa haina lengo moja mahsusi hili ni moja ya sababu ya lengo lake. Seli kujizalisha na kukua kuwa nyingi mda mwingine zinakuwa zinapigania kusurvive katika mazingira hatarishi. Kuepuka hatari ya kutoweshwa mazima. Ukienda shuleni ukaambiwa 'chanzo cha kansa hakijulikani' na wewe ukaanza kutetea hilo jua tu unajifunga mwenyewe

Lengo la kansa ni nini? Lengo la viumbe hai duniani toka mabilioni ya miaka iliyopita ni nini? Maswali haya huwezi kujibu kisayansi kwa sababu mfumuko wa vitu umekuwa mkubwa kiasi cha kupoteza uhalisia wake........ Bado najiuliza mwanabaiolojia unawezaje kuwa na dhana ya roho.

Na dhana ya roho ina ubaya gani, mwanabaioljia akiamini masuala ya kiroho unadhani ataipeleka tiba mbele? au atairudisha nyuma?

 

[Uhakika Bro]

If complexity shows evidence of a higher complexity, that shows there cannot be a God creator of all.

Because, that God will need a higher complexity to exists, which will show that that God is not God.

So, if complexity A is evidence of an even higher complexity that created complexity A, and God is complex, then the existence of that complex God will need a higher complexity to explain it, and therefore, tgat God will not be the beginning of all, therefore that said God will not be God at all.

Your complexity argument shows God the creator of all cannot exist, not otherwise.

I am telling you that; even your idea of complex is limited. You have a finite idea of what real 'complexity' is.

Think of something so complex that it does not require another system to make it, it just is that complex. Imagine.

I know you can't imagine that neither can I,. You know why? It is because to fully understand a complex system requires you[the understander] to be more complex than that system. And the fact is God is the greatest so no one, no other being can reach a point of fully understanding him. That is why our Idea of God is ever expanding as our knowledge and understanding increase so does God.

 

[GRAMAA]

Nimekua interested kidogo na hili; why unapenda Mungu aingilie kati anayo yafanya Putin lakini hukufikiria Mungu aingilie kati mauaji yanayo tokea barani Africa, mashariki ya kati nk, why only Ulaya!?

Hiyo nimetumia kama mfano tu wa vita na matatizo mengi ambayo binadamu anayapata hapa duniani ila Mungu mwenye huruma na upendo kakaa kimya bila hata kuingilia.

 

[masdinero masproblemas]

Halafu mbele unakuja kuuliza lengo la kansa ni nini, sikia ijapokuwa kansa haina lengo moja mahsusi hili ni moja ya sababu ya lengo lake. Seli kujizalisha na kukua kuwa nyingi mda mwingine zinakuwa zinapigania kusurvive katika mazingira hatarishi. Kuepuka hatari ya kutoweshwa mazima. Ukienda shuleni ukaambiwa 'chanzo cha kansa hakijulikani' na wewe ukaanza kutetea hilo jua tu unajifunga mwenyewe

Na dhana ya roho ina ubaya gani, mwanabaioljia akiamini masuala ya kiroho unadhani ataipeleka tiba mbele? au atairudisha nyuma?

Umeshika kiini hasa cha uhai na maisha. Survival of microorganisms. Hakuna lengo lingine la msingi. Genes zinataka uzae ili ziendelee kuwepo kwa muda ujao na kupunguza hatari ya kutoweka pale maisha yako yatakapofikia ukomo. Sijajifunga popote. Nimeuliza hivyo kujibu hoja ya kuwa kila kitu kina lengo mahsusi kwa sisi binadamu. Sio kweli. Kuna mambo hutokea bila kupangwa na kubadili kabisa kila kitu. Mtu mwenye nia njema hatasimama na kusema hizo turning points ambazo zingedondokea upande wowote na kuleta matokeo tofauti nazo zilipangwa kwa malengo fulani. Unpredictability unaipeleka wapi? Nina imani umepitia chaos theory na suala la butterfly effect.

Dhana ya roho,nafsi na mambo yote potofu kama hayo yana ubaya kwa misingi ya upotoshaji. Mfano; Hatua nyingi za tiba huanza kwa vipimo. Differential ya vipimo huwa sio rahisi kila mara. Mtoa huduma anapokuwa na hizi imani potofu inaleta hatari ya kutoa ushauri wa kupotezana baada ya vipimo vichache tu. Hatari inazidi kadri nguvu ya hizo imani ilivyo kwa mtaalamu.

 

[Kiranga]

I am telling you that; even your idea of complex is limited. You have a finite idea of what real 'complexity' is.

Think of something so complex that it does not require another system to make it, it just is that complex. Imagine.

I know you can't imagine that neither can I,. You know why? It is because to fully understand a complex system requires you[the understander] to be more complex than that system. And the fact is God is the greatest so no one, no other being can reach a point of fully understanding him. That is why our Idea of God is ever expanding as our knowledge and understanding increase so does God.

How do you know that that God you write about is not just an idea, and doesn't really exist?

I can think of a triangle that is also a circle, being able to think about that "triangle circle" does not make it something real outside of my thoughts.

So how do you know God really exists, and is not just a figment of your imagination?

 

[Kwa Gadie]

na subscribe tu

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Nilimuahidi mfano whiteskunk lakini nadhani utaleta mwanga pia kwa akina Kiranga na masdinero masproblemas mfano wenyewe ni;

Imagine dunia au ulimwengu mwingine ambapo wao kutokana na miale ya jua lao kuwa hafifu [au kuwa na spectrum nyembamba] wanaona vitu kama gizanigizani tu kwa hiyo wanaonaga vitu bila rangi yaani black&white tu.

Bahati nzuri mtu kutoka duniani akafanikiwa kuwatembelea akafika akataka kuwaelekeza hii idea ya 'rangi' atawaelekezaje wamuelewe? Akiwaambia kuna nyekundu/bluu/kijani watamuona anazingua tu. Hata kama yeye anaweza kuwa anaziona kihafifuhafifu kutokana na kuishi sana duniani. Kwa watu wa kule ambao hawajawahi kuona rangi atapata tabu tu. Wabishi watakataa tu na akizidi watampiga mawe. Na wanasayansi wao wenye nia njema ya kuthibitisha watamtaka awapelekee ushahidi na hayo maelezo yatoshe katika black and white[B&W] tu! Imagine kuielezea nyekundu katika lugha yenye B&W tu. Huyu jamaa akirudi duniani akachukua maua mekundu na ya njano akapeleka akiyafikisha wakayatazama watacheka halafu watasema. Hii unayosema nyekundu ni kwamba ina weusi zaidi ya hili unalosema la njano hakuna cha rangi wala nini hapo. Na hilo neno njano na nyekundu umetunga tu.

Ili aweze labda amchukue mtu wa huko amlete duniani azione rangi halafu akirudi naye anaweza kuanza kuappreciate idea ya rangi na kuwaelekeza wengine. Sio lazima aje duniani lakini akiwa na imani akakubali kujifunza na akaelewa anaweza naye kuappreciate idea ya rangi. Ndugu zangu huu ndio ugumu wa kuleta uthibitisho wa uwepo wa mambo ya kiroho kwa watu ambao wanachukulia haya material ndio halisi na ndio kitu pekee kilichopo, black and white.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

I can think of a triangle that is also a circle, being able to think about that "triangle circle" does not make it something real outside of my thoughts.

If your thought is limited to 2D even 3D perception of geometry then you are right, it is not real. It just shows that our perception of geometry is finite. Geometry has its logical limits. When we are speaking of an infinite being those rules do not apply. Who knows maybe the being with 7D perception will easily comprehend it!

Listen; imagination is a property of higher thinking beings, if you insist that God is just a figment of our Imagination do you want to assert that an idea is not real? or can it not be real? Kwanii does 'not thinking about it' makes it not real?. Our failure to think about a triangle square is because we assert that the present rules of geometry are all what geometry is or ever will be nothing else.

The idea of a god is a sane idea it makes sense when compared to the opposite, so why not think about it? Better think about what is the true idea of God.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Dhana ya roho,nafsi na mambo yote potofu kama hayo yana ubaya kwa misingi ya upotoshaji. Mfano; Hatua nyingi za tiba huanza kwa vipimo. Differential ya vipimo huwa sio rahisi kila mara. Mtoa huduma anapokuwa na hizi imani potofu inaleta hatari ya kutoa ushauri wa kupotezana baada ya vipimo vichache tu. Hatari inazidi kadri nguvu ya hizo imani ilivyo kwa mtaalamu

Sayansi imetusaidia sana kuondoa uchawi na imani potofu. Hilo halimaanishi ndio tuendelee hadi kuziondoa imani sahihi. Dhana ya roho/nafsi haiiharibu sayansi ki namna yoyote. Sema elimu, ujuzi wowote ukitumika visivyo ni kitu kibaya, I mean kitu kibaya ni kuitumia elimu vibaya/kwauongo ila sio elimu hiyo kama ilivyo

 

[Kiranga]

If your thought is limited to 2D even 3D perception of geometry then you are right, it is not real. It just shows that our perception of geometry is finite. Geometry has its logical limits. When we are speaking of an infinite being those rules do not apply. Who knows maybe the being with 7D perception will easily comprehend it!

Listen; imagination is a property of higher thinking beings, if you insist that God is just a figment of our Imagination do you want to assert that an idea is not real? or can it not be real? Kwanii does 'not thinking about it' makes it not real?. Our failure to think about a triangle square is because we assert that the present rules of geometry are all what geometry is or ever will be nothing else.

The idea of a god is a sane idea it makes sense when compared to the opposite, so why not think about it? Better think about what is the true idea of God.

You have not answered my question.

How do you know that God actually exists and is not a figment of your imagination?

 

[Kiranga]

Sayansi imetusaidia sana kuondoa uchawi na imani potofu. Hilo halimaanishi ndio tuendelee hadi kuziondoa imani sahihi. Dhana ya roho/nafsi haiiharibu sayansi ki namna yoyote. Sema elimu, ujuzi wowote ukitumika visivyo ni kitu kibaya, I mean kitu kibaya ni kuitumia elimu vibaya/kwauongo ila sio elimu hiyo kama ilivyo

Roho ni nini?

Thibitisha roho ipo kweli nje ya habari za kufikirika tu.

 

[Uhakika Bro]

Roho ni nini?

Thibitisha roho ipo kweli nje ya habari za kufikirika tu.

Umesoma mfano wangu[sio wangu inawezekana niliusoma humuhumu JF] wa rangi, umeuelewa? Sina uthibitisho ulio kamili au maelezo kamili katika lugha ya kwako tu ya material [black and white] wa kuielezea nyekundu [roho].

Lakini nitajaribu je wazo kwako ni 'kitu real' kiasi gani? mimi ni mwanabaiolojia nafahamu wazo la furaha ni real kabisa mtu atajaa madopamine, atakuwa na amani saafi, pia wazo la uoga ni real kabisa mtu atajaa macortisol, ma adrenalin na moyo utakimbia jasho litamtoka. Sijui wewe mwenzangu wazo kwako ni kitu 'real' kwa kiwango gani?

 

[Kiranga]

Umesoma mfano wangu[sio wangu inawezekana niliusoma humuhumu JF] wa rangi, umeuelewa? Sina uthibitisho ulio kamili au maelezo kamili katika lugha ya kwako tu ya material [black and white] wa kuielezea nyekundu [roho].

Lakini nitajaribu je wazo kwako ni 'kitu real' kiasi gani? mimi ni mwanabaiolojia nafahamu wazo la furaha ni real kabisa mtu atajaa madopamine, atakuwa na amani saafi, pia wazo la uoga ni real kabisa mtu atajaa macortisol, ma adrenalin na moyo utakimbia jasho litamtoka. Sijui wewe mwenzangu wazo kwako ni kitu 'real' kwa kiwango gani?

Kwa nini unasema lugha yangu ni material?

Wazo ni kitu kilichopo na umeeleza hata namna ya kulipima.

Na hata hapa tunapima wazo la kuwapo Mungu.

Tunaweza kulichunguza na kujua ukweli na uongo wake.

Wewe mpaka sasa hujathibitisha roho ipo, hujaeleza njia ya kuipima. Hujaeleza chochote cha kuonesha uwepo wa roho si hadithi tu.

The same for Mungu.