Philosophy of Religion: Uthibitisho wa uwepo wa Mungu kwa hoja ya Ufunuo na maandiko matakatifu

[Mjuni Lwambo]

Pia kuna hiki hapa "21 lessons of 21centuary":View attachment 2139245

Asante sana mkuu.. Barikiwa kabisa!

 

[draga]

Wazungu na waarabu walipo tuletea hayo mavitabu Yao yenye tamaduni zao ndipo tulichanganywa

 

[Kisai]

Majibu ndio ynayopaswa kuwa sahihi kulingana na swali

Sasa inakuwaje unauliza kinyume na kile nilichokieleza kutokana na mtiririko. Maana yake swali lako linakuwa siyo sahihi.

Nimekupa jibu sahihi ndiyo maana swali lako likawa siyo sahihi.

Kwa hiyo ile niliyokuwekea mimi ni kitu gani?

Hujaweka jina la kitabu. Hivi marejeo huwa mnaweka vile ? Kijana unapenda kupoteza muda kwenye hakuna.

Kama umeamua kukataa hiyo quote ni sawa

Aisee hapa usikimbie hoja, nataka unitajie jina la kitabu.

Kingine kuna swali unalikimbia, hizi habari za Qur'aan umezisoma wapi ?

Asili yake ipi?

Hapa tunajadili nini ?

 

[Kisai]

Kwanza hiki unachokiandika hapa nakiona kama ni personal perspective, otherwise uje na vivid evidence kutoka reliable source ikiongelea hiki ulichokiandika

Haya ninayo yaandika hayajatoka kichwani mwangu kijana. Ndiyo maana nakwambia zaidi ya mara moja sasa uniambie umesoma wapi hizi habari ? Sababu hiki ninachokiandika ni maarufu sana. Sada nashangaa inakuwaje hujakisoma ?

Vitabu vile vinne nilivyo kutajia huko nyuma vimegusia hili jambo. Kwa kukusaidia nenda kavisome vile vitabu kisha uje kuleta mrejesho humu.

Hao maswahaba uliowaweka na kuwataja kama walihifadhi Quran yote, una hakika kile walichokinukuu hakikutoka nje ya kile ambacho walikuwa wamekihifadhi kifuani?

Uhakika zaidi asilimia. Naona unaendelea kuruka ruka. Ili uamini kama hawajatoa nje ikosoe Qur'aan kama utaweza.

Ebu cheki huyu Zayid Ibn Thabit alivyoelezewa hapa na namna unavyomuelezea wewe

Kijana hii pia si hoja. Sasa hayo maelezo na yangu yana tofauti gani ?

Huyo alikuwa ni editor au secretary wa Muhammad na alikuwa na kibarua cha kuzunguka kutafuta maandiko, sasa kivipi tena huyu mtu anayetafuta text awe ni mmoja wa watu walio hifadhi Quran yote?

Halafu hii habari ya kusema "editor" mnaipata wapi ? Yeye alikuwa ni muandishi wa Mtume sasa suala la Muhariri/Mhariri mnalipata wapi ?

Kingine hakuwa huyu tu peke yake za Mtume walikuwa takribani wa 3 au 4.

Kijana kilaza sana ujue, sasa hapo ugumu uko wapi ? Kwani wanao hifadhi Qur'aab hawafanyi shughuli nyingine ?

Haya ni matatizo ya kutokujibu maswali yangu, nakuuliza tena habari za Qur'aan umezisomea wapi ?

 

[Kisai]

Sio kila kitu kipo in term of book, hususani kwenye vitu vya kale

Sijakuelewa una maanisha nini ?

Na hata hivyo zipo nukuu ambazo zipo ndani ya vitabu fulani ambazo zimekuwa maarufu kuliko kitabu chenyewe

Maana yake kitabu kinajulikana, sasa ndiyo utaje jina la kitabu kijana.

Zipo article nyingi zimeelezea hizi habari kwa upana wake, hebu soma hapa History of Quran halafu unioneshe hao waliobakia wakiwa wamehifadhi Quran yote baada ya vita ya Yomama

Hizi makala waandishi wake hawajaota kijana wametoa katika vitabu, usilete visingizio vya kitoto. Haya mambo yote yamedhibitiwa katika vitabu.

Nimeshakuonyesha tayari hao kina Zayid bin Thabit, Swahaba Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud na wengine.

Unapinga hiyo source

Hujaweka source, umeweka linki iliyonipeleka Wikipedia nataka unitajie jina la kitabu ambalo nikienda kufungua hicho kitabu nazikuta hizo habari.

 

[love life live life]

Kwanini unaniuliza swali ambalo nimekujibu hapo kwenye post yangu tena kwa kuonesha msisitizo nimei highlight ikiwa bolded kwa rangi nyekundu?

Kusema hakipo ndio kiwe hakipo?
Your wrong..

 

[Scars]

Sasa inakuwaje unauliza kinyume na kile nilichokieleza kutokana na mtiririko. Maana yake swali lako linakuwa siyo sahihi.

Nimekupa jibu sahihi ndiyo maana swali lako likawa siyo sahihi.

Hujaweka jina la kitabu. Hivi marejeo huwa mnaweka vile ? Kijana unapenda kupoteza muda kwenye hakuna.

Aisee hapa usikimbie hoja, nataka unitajie jina la kitabu.

Kingine kuna swali unalikimbia, hizi habari za Qur'aan umezisoma wapi ?

Hapa tunajadili nini ?

Kwasababu we habari za Quran umezisoma Madrasat unataka kila mtu aliyesoma sehemu zingine basi ichukuliwe vyanzo hivyo kuwa ni unauthentic?

Haya nimekuwekea a brief details hapa zikiwa na ushahidi wa vyanzo vyake

 

[Kisai]

Kwasababu we habari za Quran umezisoma Madrasat unataka kila mtu aliyesoma sehemu zingine basi ichukuliwe vyanzo hivyo kuwa ni unauthentic?

Haya nimekuwekea a brief details hapa zikiwa na ushahidi wa vyanzo vyake

Ndiyo maana Qur'aan bado hujaijua, historia ya Qur'aan sijaisoma Madrasa hili kwanza weka akilini, bali nimesoma kwenye vitabu vya asili ambavyo wewe huvijui.

Kingine nataka tujadili hii makala kielimu, sababu naona ina mapungufu sana na aliyeandika naye haijui historis ya Qur'aan. Hili swali mona miongoni mwa maswali mengi niliyo kuuliza. Hapa tunahutimisha ya kuwa Historia ya Qur'aan hujaisoma toka kwenye vitabu bali umesoma toka kwenye makala ya mtu asiye na elimu juu ya historia hiyo.

Swali lingine ambalo hujajibu, hujanitajia jina la kitabu ambalo uli screenshot ile page.

 

[Scars]

Haya ninayo yaandika hayajatoka kichwani mwangu kijana. Ndiyo maana nakwambia zaidi ya mara moja sasa uniambie umesoma wapi hizi habari ? Sababu hiki ninachokiandika ni maarufu sana. Sada nashangaa inakuwaje hujakisoma ?

Kwanza ulinipa nukuu hukunipa aya ulikoitoa hiyo nukuu lakini hata hivyo nimesoma na ile Quote hakuna sehemu iliyotoa maelezo ambayo wewe unayazungumza hapa kwamba Quran ilikuwa compliled kutoka vifuani mwa watu walio hifadhi

Hoja yangu niliyoiweka ni kwamba hao watu hawakui memorize Quran yote vifuani mwao na ndio maana Abu Bakr alipatwa na wasi wasi mpaka akamtafuta Zayd Ibn Thabit aliyekuwa secretary wa Muhammad akusanye maandiko kutoka

Reference	: Sahih al-Bukhari 7191
In-book reference	: Book 93, Hadith 53

Abu Bakr sent for me owing to the large number of casualties in the battle of Al-Yamama, while `Umar was sitting with him. Abu Bakr said (to me), `Umar has come to my and said, 'A great number of Qaris of the Holy Qur'an were killed on the day of the battle of Al-Yamama, and I am afraid that the casualties among the Qaris of the Qur'an may increase on other battle-fields whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I consider it advisable that you (Abu Bakr) should have the Qur'an collected.' I said, 'How dare I do something which Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) did not do?' 'Umar said, by Allah, it is something beneficial.' 'Umar kept on pressing me for that till Allah opened my chest for that which he had opened the chest of Umar and I had in matter that, the same opinion as 'Umar had had.' Abu Bakr then said to me (Zaid), "You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him). So you should search for the fragmentary scripts of the Qur'an and collect it (in one Book)." Zaid further said: By Allah, if Abu Bakr had ordered me to shift a mountain among the mountains from one place to another it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Qur'an. Then I said (to 'Umar and Abu Bakr), "How can you do something which Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) did not do?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is something beneficial." Zaid added: So he (Abu Bakr) kept on pressing me for that until Allah opened my chest for that for which He had opened the chests of Abu Bakr and `Umar, and I had in that matter, the same opinion as theirs. So I started compiling the Qur'an by collecting it from the leafless stalks of the date-palm tree and from the pieces of leather and hides and from the stones, and from the chests of men (who had memorized the Qur'an). I found the last verses of Sirat-at-Tauba: ("Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves--' (9.128-129) )

Focus kwenye bold hapo

 

[Scars]

Ndiyo maana Qur'aan bado hujaijua, historia ya Qur'aan sijaisoma Madrasa hili kwanza weka akilini, bali nimesoma kwenye vitabu vya asili ambavyo wewe huvijui.

Kingine nataka tujadili hii makala kielimu, sababu naona ina mapungufu sana na aliyeandika naye haijui historis ya Qur'aan. Hili swali mona miongoni mwa maswali mengi niliyo kuuliza. Hapa tunahutimisha ya kuwa Historia ya Qur'aan hujaisoma toka kwenye vitabu bali umesoma toka kwenye makala ya mtu asiye na elimu juu ya historia hiyo.

Swali lingine ambalo hujajibu, hujanitajia jina la kitabu ambalo uli screenshot ile page.

Hujaelewa tu?

Ile screenshot ilikuwa kwenye Quran ya codex ya Ubayy ibn Ka'b ambapo baadaye hizo chapter zilikuja kuondolewa na Uthman kwasababu alizikataa

 

[Scars]

Ndiyo maana Qur'aan bado hujaijua, historia ya Qur'aan sijaisoma Madrasa hili kwanza weka akilini, bali nimesoma kwenye vitabu vya asili ambavyo wewe huvijui.

Kingine nataka tujadili hii makala kielimu, sababu naona ina mapungufu sana na aliyeandika naye haijui historis ya Qur'aan. Hili swali mona miongoni mwa maswali mengi niliyo kuuliza. Hapa tunahutimisha ya kuwa Historia ya Qur'aan hujaisoma toka kwenye vitabu bali umesoma toka kwenye makala ya mtu asiye na elimu juu ya historia hiyo.

Swali lingine ambalo hujajibu, hujanitajia jina la kitabu ambalo uli screenshot ile page.

Lakini pia hapo kuna PDF ya history of Quran in brief nimekuwekea sijui kama umeiona

 

[Scars]

Kusema hakipo ndio kiwe hakipo?
Your wrong..

Bahati nzuri sikuishia hapo, nilenda mbali zaidi kwa kukuwekea mifano ili niwe specific zaidi nika bold kisha nikaya highligt maneno kwa rangi nyekundu

Sasa tatizo liko kwako

 

[mjingamimi]

Mkila ugali mmeshiba uwa mnawaza upuuzi.
Anayekwambia Mungu hayupo lakini hata yeye hajui ametoka wapi

 

[Kisai]

Kwanza ulinipa nukuu hukunipa aya ulikoitoa hiyo nukuu lakini hata hivyo nimesoma na ile Quote hakuna sehemu iliyotoa maelezo ambayo wewe unayazungumza hapa kwamba Quran ilikuwa compliled kutoka vifuani mwa watu walio hifadhi

Hoja yangu niliyoiweka ni kwamba hao watu hawakui memorize Quran yote vifuani mwao na ndio maana Abu Bakr alipatwa na wasi wasi mpaka akamtafuta Zayd Ibn Thabit aliyekuwa secretary wa Muhammad akusanye maandiko kutoka

Reference	: Sahih al-Bukhari 7191
In-book reference	: Book 93, Hadith 53

Abu Bakr sent for me owing to the large number of casualties in the battle of Al-Yamama, while `Umar was sitting with him. Abu Bakr said (to me), `Umar has come to my and said, 'A great number of Qaris of the Holy Qur'an were killed on the day of the battle of Al-Yamama, and I am afraid that the casualties among the Qaris of the Qur'an may increase on other battle-fields whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I consider it advisable that you (Abu Bakr) should have the Qur'an collected.' I said, 'How dare I do something which Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) did not do?' 'Umar said, by Allah, it is something beneficial.' 'Umar kept on pressing me for that till Allah opened my chest for that which he had opened the chest of Umar and I had in matter that, the same opinion as 'Umar had had.' Abu Bakr then said to me (Zaid), "You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him). So you should search for the fragmentary scripts of the Qur'an and collect it (in one Book)." Zaid further said: By Allah, if Abu Bakr had ordered me to shift a mountain among the mountains from one place to another it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Qur'an. Then I said (to 'Umar and Abu Bakr), "How can you do something which Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) did not do?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is something beneficial." Zaid added: So he (Abu Bakr) kept on pressing me for that until Allah opened my chest for that for which He had opened the chests of Abu Bakr and `Umar, and I had in that matter, the same opinion as theirs. So I started compiling the Qur'an by collecting it from the leafless stalks of the date-palm tree and from the pieces of leather and hides and from the stones, and from the chests of men (who had memorized the Qur'an). I found the last verses of Sirat-at-Tauba: ("Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves--' (9.128-129) )

Focus kwenye bold hapo

Kijana hili nimeshakujibu zaidi ya mara moja. Unapoteza muda kurudiarudia. Kwanza aliyepewa tu kazi hiyo mwenyewe alikuwa amehifadhi Qur'aan yote.

 

[Kisai]

Hujaelewa tu?

Ile screenshot ilikuwa kwenye Quran ya codex ya Ubayy ibn Ka'b ambapo baadaye hizo chapter zilikuja kuondolewa na Uthman kwasababu alizikataa

Una unavyoandika mambo usiyo yajua. Hakuna Qur'aan ya Mtu kijana, ndiyo maana nataka utaje jina la kitabu. Hayo unayo yasema ameyaandika nani ?

 

[Artificial intelligence]

Tatizo lingine kwenye hoja hii ya revelation ni PSYCHOLOGICAL

leo kuna watu wengi wanaokataa kuamini kwamba maandiko ni maelezo sahihi ya matukio yaliyotokea zamani, watu wana uelewa wa psychological phenomen wa jinsi mtu anavyoweza kurudia stori na kuiongezea chumvi au kupotosha ukweli halisi wa kile kilichotokea

Kama ambavyo wewe unaamini biblia na vitabu vingine vya kale vya dini tofauti na yako vimepotoshwa kwa kuongezewa maneno ya uwongo

Hata hivyo kila kitu kina fahamika kwamba tyale yaliyochukuliwa kama maandiko matakatifu yalipigiwa kura na viongozi wa kiharakati za kidini. Yapo maandishi yaliyotengwa kwasababu fulani na mengine yakaongezwa na wale waliokuwa na uwezo wa kutangaza maandishi hayo kuwa yamevuviwa rasmi au kuandikwa na Mungu huyo.

Kutumia maneno ambayo yamekuwa yakichukuliwa kama "maandiko matakatifu" hayaelekei kuthibitisha kwa wasio amini kwamba ni matakatifu

Kutumia maandiko kumthibitishia aiye amini kwamba kuna sacred source ambayo ili inspire waandishi wa hayo maandiko haiwezi kuwa na ushawishi pale ambapo kuna maelezo ya mbadala yanayo elezea kilicho fanyika miaka hiyo.

TATIZO KATIKA UKWELI

Ni maandiko gani matakatifu yaliyo matakatifu zaidi kuliko mengine?

Ni toleo gani la maandiko ambalo tunapaswa kulitumia? Maandiko huripoti matukio ambayo hayawezi kuwa kweli na ambayo hayawezi kuthibitishwa na ambayo yanaweza kupotosha.

Kama hoja ya ufunuo inafikiriwa kuwa ni hoja ya kukubalika basi kuna haja ya kueleza kwanini andiko moja lipingane na andiko lingine wakati yote hudaiwa kuandikwa kwa ufunuo?

• Mungu lazima awepo kwasababu maandiko yamesema (Biblia, Quran, Vedas, Avestas, etc.)
• Maandiko ni ya kweli kwasababu yameandikwa na Mungu au kwa watu walio ongozwa
• Nani aliwaongoza hao watu? (Mungu aliwaongoza)

Kwa hiyo maandiko gani kati ya hayo ni matakatifu au ya kweli zaidi kuliko mengine: Biblia agano la kale, Biblia agano jipya, Quran, Vedas, Avestas?

Toleo gani kati ya hivyo vitabu vitakatifu ambacho kinapaswa kuwa rasmi na kutambulika kua ni maandiko ya kweli zaidi?

Hivyo vitabu vyote bahadhi ni ya kweli na mengine ni uongo. Mkuu hongera sana umejadili hoja yako kwa logic reasoning & fanastic argument.

 

[Scars]

Kijana hili nimeshakujibu zaidi ya mara moja. Unapoteza muda kurudiarudia. Kwanza aliyepewa tu kazi hiyo mwenyewe alikuwa amehifadhi Qur'aan yote.

Sasa kwanini alikuwa akihangaika kutafuta masalia ya Quran sehemu tofauti tofauti kwenye magome ya miti na mbavu za wanyama wakati alikuwa ameihifadhi yote kifuani?

Yaani we unaona bado maelezo yako yapo clear kwa situation hiyo?

 

[Scars]

Una unavyoandika mambo usiyo yajua. Hakuna Qur'aan ya Mtu kijana, ndiyo maana nataka utaje jina la kitabu. Hayo unayo yasema ameyaandika nani ?

Ni kwasababu ilishakuwa isolated na ndio maana inasema hivyo ila ukweli nfio huo na ile screenshot ni ushahidi wa mionhoni mwa chapter zilizo miss kwenye current Quran

 

[Kisai]

Sasa kwanini alikuwa akihangaika kutafuta masalia ya Quran sehemu tofauti tofauti kwenye magome ya miti na mbavu za wanyama wakati alikuwa ameihifadhi yote kifuani?

Yaani we unaona bado maelezo yako yapo clear kwa situation hiyo?

Kijana inaonekana nanachokiandika hukisomi na ile makala yako mengi haija andikwa na muandishi wa makala hiyo ndiyo maana hajaandika jina lake.

Qur'aan imeshuka katika lahaja saba na ina namna kumi ya usomaji. Japokuwa yeye alikuwa amehifadhi lakini alipaswa kuikusanya kutokana na lahaja zote zilizo tumika ndiyo maana huko baadae swahaba Hudhaifa alitoa wazo hilo la lahaja zote za Qur'aan ziwe katika nakala moja sababu Qur'aan ilishuka katika ndimi hizo saba za Waarabu, ili sisi tutakao kuja tusibabaike na wao kuihifadhi.

Sasa nashangaa kuona unarudia rudia jambo ambalo nimeshakujibu.

Kwa faida zaidi soma hiki kitabu cha Imamu Suyuti :

 

[Kisai]

Ni kwasababu ilishakuwa isolated na ndio maana inasema hivyo ila ukweli nfio huo na ile screenshot ni ushahidi wa mionhoni mwa chapter zilizo miss kwenye current Quran

Screenshot ambayo hujaweka marejeo, nataka uweke jina la kitabu kisha nije nikupe udhaifu wa hayo maneno.