If our President has more than one wife: The question of human rights

[Susuviri]

.. Future_Tanzania wewe unashindwa kuelewa Haki za mwanamke ni zipi na haki za mwanaume ni zipi....either hujui Maumbile ya Mwanamke na Hujui Maumbile ya mwanaume...

Pia Inaonekana unashika bango la wale wanaotaka USAWA baina ya wanaume na wanaume...kwako wewe na Genge lenu la TGNP na wengineo hapa JF, mmeshindwa kutofautisha kati ya USAWA na HAKI za wanawake...

Pia Unapotaka ugusie sheria za tanzania tu, as if maumbile ya mwanadamu wa Ulaya au Asia ni tofauti na Maumbile ya mwanadamu wa Tanzania...

Ni vyema uwafuate waalimu wako au watu walokumezesha FIKRA potofu wakufahamishe nini Maana ya HAKI na Nini Maana ya USAWA...Then wakufahamishe maumbile ya mwanadamu yakoje...na yanatofautisha vipi "Roles zao ktk Jamii"

Mbona unajikanyaga mkuu? Pray tell us why is Usawa na Haki so different and not interrelated? You sound as if you have a problem with TGNP and other civil rights organizations, but if you are not ready to acknowledge the equality of a gender, sexual orientation or race then you are out of touch with the present and future. In an age when Hillary Rodham Clinton vied for the US presidency, I really hope that you are not implying that the Rights of women or Equality of Women is irrelevant or non existent!

 

[Mtwike]

Hivo unashindwa kuona kuwa celibacy ni kinyume na maumbile, unasingizia siasa, uchumi n.k.! Its total violation of Human rights, na zaidi ikiwa utalazimisha kiongozi wa nchi awe na sifa hiyo! Issue is Human Rights, not religion nor morale!

 

[Chuma]

Mbona unajikanyaga mkuu? Pray tell us why is Usawa na Haki so different and not interrelated? You sound as if you have a problem with TGNP and other civil rights organizations, but if you are not ready to acknowledge the equality of a gender, sexual orientation or race then you are out of touch with the present and future. In an age when Hillary Rodham Clinton vied for the US presidency, I really hope that you are not implying that the Rights of women or Equality of Women is irrelevant or non existent!

Susuviri inaonesha hata kiswahili kinakupiga chenga...Sijajikanganya Mkuu ...hata maneno yenyewe ktk English pia yanatofautika..Rights n Equality...Utakapo yajua Maumbile ya mwanadamu..Ndipo waweza jua vyema tunapozungumzia nadharia za Usawa na Haki za Mwanamke...

 

[Susuviri]

Susuviri inaonesha hata kiswahili kinakupiga chenga...Sijajikanganya Mkuu ...hata maneno yenyewe ktk English pia yanatofautika..Rights n Equality...Utakapo yajua Maumbile ya mwanadamu..Ndipo waweza jua vyema tunapozungumzia nadharia za Usawa na Haki za Mwanamke...

Sawa bana, we ndo mtaalam wa Kiswahili, hebu nieleze je, Rights and Equality haiko interrelated. Hivi unafikiri equality inatofautiana vipi na rights? Does equality and rights differ depending on whether someone has his genitals dangling or not? Repeating point yako ya kujua maumbile ya mwanadamu, does not help! Si kuna tofauti ya kimaumbile kati ya mzungu na mwafrika? So what?
Au unataka kuleta principle" Equal but separate" ya South?

 

[Chuma]

Why is celibacy a violation of Human rights? It involves YOUR body alone and not someone else's unlike marriage where it involves the life and body of the person you marry. You are trying to make this a religious issue when it is not. Polygamy is a historic precedent set for political, social and economic reasons and has lost its relevance in today's world.

Susuviri kakae na Genge lenu la TGNP muwaongopee watu...huku mkisubiri "Vijisent vya wazungu"...unaposema "ukewenza hauna nafasi ktk ulimwengu wa sasa ....as if mwanadamu sasa amekuwa na Miguu minne...

hakuna strong ideas mnazozitoa juu ya nadharia ya "Ukewenza"...

Kwenu nyinyi..KUZINI ni HALALI...ULAWITI ni HALALI..hamuoni AIBU...?ila mtu akioa mke zaid ya Mmoja si Halali...?...duh

 

[Susuviri]

Susuviri kakae na Genge lenu la TGNP muwaongopee watu...huku mkisubiri "Vijisent vya wazungu"...unaposema "ukewenza hauna nafasi ktk ulimwengu wa sasa ....as if mwanadamu sasa amekuwa na Miguu minne...

hakuna strong ideas mnazozitoa juu ya nadharia ya "Ukewenza"...

Kwenu nyinyi..KUZINI ni HALALI...ULAWITI ni HALALI..hamuoni AIBU...?ila mtu akioa mke zaid ya Mmoja si Halali...?...duh

Man! You have issues! Kwikwikwi!
Sasa mkuu, hebu tutofautishe kidogo vitu hapa, unatetea ukewenza ya nini? You are just attacking not bringing points to the table. Alafu aliyekwambia ninasubiri vijisenti vya wazungu ni nani? Unafikiri sisi waafrika hatuna utashi? Hatuwezi kutofautiana kifikra na hatuwezi kubadilika? But I understand, brother! You have issues.
Umesema hatuna strong points, naomba nikurefer kwa post yangu hapo awali niliozungumzia poltical, and economic reasons for polygamy. Those issues are no longer relevant. Zaidi ya hapo unataka kuniambia what was the reason for polygamy in our societies, not only in Africa but Asia? Love? Mutual respect? COME ON!!!

 

[Magobe T]

Hivo unashindwa kuona kuwa celibacy ni kinyume na maumbile, unasingizia siasa, uchumi n.k.! Its total violation of Human rights, na zaidi ikiwa utalazimisha kiongozi wa nchi awe na sifa hiyo! Issue is Human Rights, not religion nor morale!

Celibacy siyo kinyume na maumbile kwani kila mtu anazaliwa 'celibate', meaning 'single'. Siyo lazima kuoa na ndiyo maana asiyeoa hawezi kwenda kinyume na maumbile.

Unaweza kuamua kuoa na still usioe kwa vile, mfano, unayemtaka hakupendi au tabia yako siyo nzuri na hakuna aliye tayari kuolewa nawe. Vilevile mwanamke anaweza kuwa anapenda kuolewa na asiolewe. Ndoa ni choice, commitment.

Na celibate naye anafanya choice kubaki single kwa ajili ya wito wake kwa kadiri ya maana alioupa. Je, ulishamwona mtu kazaliwa ameoa in such a way that ambaye haoi ni 'abnormal'?

 

[Mtu B]

Tukizungumzia haki za binadamu, hivi mwanamke hana haki ya kuolewa na mwanaume anayemtaka? Ikitokea mwanaume ambaye huyo mwanamke anamtaka tayari anaye mke, lakini pia ameridhia kuwa na mke wa pili, je yule mwanamke muolewaji hana haki ya kuolewa na mwanaume wake huyo? Kuna tatizo gani katika ukewenza wa maridhiano, ni haki ya nani imevunjwa?

Nakuuliza wewe Augustine Moshi, ndoa ya wake wengi iliyofuata taratibu zote za kisheria zilizopo, inavunja kipengele ama ibara ipi ya haki za binadamu? Na unazungumzia haki zipi za binadamu, ni ile Universal Declaration ninayoifahamu au una declaration mpya ya kwako bwana Moshi?

 

[Insurgent]

The president has been used as a leverage to attack another religion...
(Ipelekwe huko kwenye dini)

 

[FDR.Jr]

Hata kama anataka kuoa wake wanne hilo binafsi halinipi shida midhari jamii yake ya kiimani inamruhusu hivyo ila serikali inao wajibu wa kumtunza first lady, hapo nadhani tumekosa hoja ya msingi dhidi ya tunayemzonga.

Niulize tu, lipi jema kuoa mke wa pili kama dini yake inavyomtaka au awe mr.hit and run kama masela wetu mtaani.

Tuyawache haya yenye majibu fasaha ya kiimani na kibinadamu tukomae na yale yenye ugumu na kubomoa jamii.

 

[Susuviri]

Hata kama anataka kuoa wake wanne hilo binafsi halinipi shida midhari jamii yake ya kiimani inamruhusu hivyo ila serikali inao wajibu wa kumtunza first lady, hapo nadhani tumekosa hoja ya msingi dhidi ya tunayemzonga.

Niulize tu, lipi jema kuoa mke wa pili kama dini yake inavyomtaka au awe mr.hit and run kama masela wetu mtaani.

Tuyawache haya yenye majibu fasaha ya kiimani na kibinadamu tukomae na yale yenye ugumu na kubomoa jamii.

In my exeprience, mwanaume mwenye wake 2 au zaidi is also mtu wa hit and run! Kwani hao wake wengine aliwakuta vipi? Si ndo hiyo ya kutembea nje ya ndoa na kucheki nje ya ndoa yako what is there better? Same thing excpet kinahalalishwa. And FYI hata huyu muungwana bado anaendelea na tabia yake ya hit and run even after mke wa pili!

 

[FDR.Jr]

Hata kama anataka kuoa wake wanne hilo binafsi halinipi shida midhari jamii yake ya kiimani inamruhusu hivyo ila serikali inao wajibu wa kumtunza first lady, hapo nadhani tumekosa hoja ya msingi dhidi ya tunayemzonga.

Niulize tu, lipi jema kuoa mke wa pili kama dini yake inavyomtaka au awe mr.hit and run kama masela wetu mtaani.

Tuyawache haya yenye majibu fasaha ya kiimani na kibinadamu tukomae na yale yenye ugumu na kubomoa jamii.

 

[Future-Tanzania]

Jee akiwa Raisi wetu ni Kapera au Padri wa Kikatoliki au Sister, patakuweko na issue ya Human rights? Which is abnormal, not marrying and having two wives? Is it not violation of Human right and primitive to have an un marrying leaderof a country like Vatican? (Issue is Human Rights, not religion nor morale)

Kwi kwi... as far as i know, padris au sisters arent suppose to be in Politics..... well i am not expert on that tho.. lets up some Rev.. lol

 

[FDR.Jr]

Susuviri unajua maana halisi ya ndoa?

Maana kumhukumu mtu eti kwa sababu ameoa mke wa pili ni ushahidi wa hit & run, hapo napata fadhaa, maana hakuna maandiko yoyote kiisalamu au kikristo yanayohalalisha uhusiano wa kihawara then ndoa, ninachofahamu ni " mpende mtu kisha umuoe baada kuhalishwa kiimani ndipo tendo la kujamiiana kimwili kwa wawili hawa na hapo ndipo ndio inakamilika"

 

[FDR.Jr]

Susuviri unajua maana halisi ya ndoa?

Maana kumhukumu mtu eti kwa sababu ameoa mke wa pili ni ushahidi wa hit & run, hapo napata fadhaa, maana hakuna maandiko yoyote kiisalamu au kikristo yanayohalalisha uhusiano wa kihawara then ndoa, ninachofahamu ni " mpende mtu kisha umuoe baada kuhalishwa kiimani ndipo tendo la kujamiiana kimwili kwa wawili hawa na hapo ndipo ndio inakamilika"

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

No one is forcing those women to marry those men. They do it on their own will. If they (the women) don't have a problem with it then why the hell should you?

Thanks NN for being very sincere on this one.
1.Marriage is a private matter depending on who is involved.JK has all the rights to marry up to 4 wives as a muslim and its up to the women involved to make that decision - "to be part of the group".As a public figure, JK cannot parade them especially when appearing in state functions including travelling abroad on official matters for the obvious reason that only one first lady is recognised.

2.From a human rights perspective may be the pertinent question to ask is
" whose human rights is being violated?"- JK's, the wives or bystanders like us? Women entering into polygamous or even potentially polygamous marriages have themselves to blame.

3.By the way there are very few "true" monogamous marriages these days if we are to be sincere to ourselves.That is why there are nyumba ndogos everywhere regardless of religious affiliations.So even where a woman enters intoa strictl monogamous marriage - it is a gamble coz u will never know what is in store for u.

 

[Future-Tanzania]

Susuviri kakae na Genge lenu la TGNP muwaongopee watu...huku mkisubiri "Vijisent vya wazungu"...unaposema "ukewenza hauna nafasi ktk ulimwengu wa sasa ....as if mwanadamu sasa amekuwa na Miguu minne...

hakuna strong ideas mnazozitoa juu ya nadharia ya "Ukewenza"...

Kwenu nyinyi..KUZINI ni HALALI...ULAWITI ni HALALI..hamuoni AIBU...?ila mtu akioa mke zaid ya Mmoja si Halali...?...duh

Here we go again, Mr/Mrs Chuma, wazungu wamekukosea nini kwenye hii topic! This is typical example wa Africans, we keep on blaming other people/westerners for our own faults, why we don’t want to face the music on our on way, everything blaming westerners! Is this due to lack of education? Or its just ignorance? Why do you have treat other people as shit and once they question ohh wazungu wanawafundisha! Shame on you Chuma.

As I said earlier, you like it or not, Woman in Tanzania wanafikia kipindi cha Revolution, they move forward to know they are rights as citizens, mothers, and wife, as well as what they contribute to their families and country. Hence mate you need to start open your mind up and think outside the box. Ni kama wakati wa mkoloni when locally people walipoanza kujua their rights walikuwa wanaresist but people kept pressing up, this is what you are going through, and this is what make me wonder whether people like you are womanizers!

By the way, ata jamii yetu ya Tanzania wanalawiti, kuna mashoga and so on, immoral behaviors are universal and it doesn’t work on race! Raping is happen in every race and socities, the difference is some countries like Tanzania, there are some socities where they see rape to women is fine simply because it work on selfishness of a man!! and you call that culture?

 

[Future-Tanzania]

Thanks NN for being very sincere on this one.
1.Marriage is a private matter depending on who is involved.JK has all the rights to marry up to 4 wives as a muslim and its up to the women involved to make that decision - "to be part of the group".As a public figure, JK cannot parade them especially when appearing in state functions including travelling abroad on official matters for the obvious reason that only one first lady is recognised.

2.From a human rights perspective may be the pertinent question to ask is
" whose human rights is being violated?"- JK's, the wives or bystanders like us? Women entering into polygamous or even potentially polygamous marriages have themselves to blame.

3.By the way there are very few "true" monogamous marriages these days if we are to be sincere to ourselves.That is why there are nyumba ndogos everywhere regardless of religious affiliations.So even where a woman enters intoa strictl monogamous marriage - it is a gamble coz u will never know what is in store for u.

OK, so what you say its women to blame! fair enough do you think some of these women are getting themself into polygomous marriage because of economic and luc of education?

two if MR JK has to be seen with one wife for political and international reasons, why that so? does it mean he is hiding what you and him believe is right? Is it this tell something is wrong with the way we conduct our lives as a society?

as tanzanian tax payer, why should my money go and Entertaining first family with multiple wives, as you said if we talk of him having a possible 4 wives and each 4 children we are talking about a family with at least 16 people! is this right?

 

[Kaduguda]

Naomba mwenye picha ya mke wa pili wa jk wakiwa pamoja au peke yake aiweke hapa jamvini. maana nilitarajia walao kumuona wakati wa sherehe ya ku-graduate kwa salama kikwete pale muchs lakini hakutokea. Sasa nashindwa kuamini kama huyo mke wa pili yuko kweli au ni ndo udaku mwingine ndani ya jf.

 

[Susuviri]

Susuviri unajua maana halisi ya ndoa?

Maana kumhukumu mtu eti kwa sababu ameoa mke wa pili ni ushahidi wa hit & run, hapo napata fadhaa, maana hakuna maandiko yoyote kiisalamu au kikristo yanayohalalisha uhusiano wa kihawara then ndoa, ninachofahamu ni " mpende mtu kisha umuoe baada kuhalishwa kiimani ndipo tendo la kujamiiana kimwili kwa wawili hawa na hapo ndipo ndio inakamilika"

FDR Jr. I am not talking about religion, so don't take it there. BTW polygamy is not only practiced by Muslims but also Mormons, so let us get out of this circle first.
Second: hujanielewa vizuri kuhusu point yangu but it is fair that you ask. Siyo kwamba sielewi maana ya ndoa , lakini I question how the husband meets the second, third or fourth wife. Si ina maana alianza kwa kumwangalia mwanamke mwingine ambaye si mke wake halali kwa matamanio? Au? Kama ni arranged marriage basi unatupatia nguvu ya hoja sisi ambao tunasema inamnyima mwanamke haki ya kuchagua. So the difference between a husband that goes seeking other wives (outside his first marriage) and a guy who keep concubines is the marriage certificate. But the process of getting the wife, girlfriend, concubine is the same. Au kuna njia tofauti ya kutafuta?