Kama Biblia na Quran zingeletwa Mahakamani zithibitishe yaliyomo ndani yake, Quran ingeangukia pua

[Gavana]

Jitaidi basi uweke copy paste pembeni ujaribu kujibu

Mimi nawawekea ushahidi , mtaita mnavyopenda lakini ukweli sitouficha

 

[Gavana]

Umeshindwa kupangua hoja humu unataka live 😂😂🤣

Wewe usipangue zipange


Guided by the Holy Spirit – or merely plagiarism?

In the Old Testament original – the Book of Esther – a drunken King Ahasuerus makes an offer to his dancing queen:	The author of Mark has a drunken King Herod offer a reward to his own exotic dancer:
"What is thy petition, queen Esther? and it shall be granted thee: and what is thy request? and it shall be performed, even to the half of the kingdom." – Esther 7.2.​	"Ask me for whatever you wish, and I will grant it. And he vowed to her, "Whatever you ask me, I will give you, even half of my kingdom." – Mark 6,22,23.​
In the original tale, the royal chamberlain Haman dies.	In Mark's copy John the Baptist dies!

 

[Gavana]

Ajabu ni kuwa mawakili WA maana WA upande wa Quran wamekimbia wamewaachia watu ordinary wasio na elimu ya Dini pamoja na elimu ya kidunia.
Ndio maana unaona wakiweweseka hivi

A fantasy crafted from Jewish archetypes


Growing the dream of a Jesus

Not history but plagiarism puts flesh on the spirit!

 

[Gavana]

Ajabu ni kuwa mawakili WA maana WA upande wa Quran wamekimbia wamewaachia watu ordinary wasio na elimu ya Dini pamoja na elimu ya kidunia.
Ndio maana unaona wakiweweseka hivi

Where Did They Get Their Ideas From? Septuagint – Greek translation of the Jewish oracles and a primary source document for the Christian novelists.

"For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another, as the Greeks have, but only twenty-two books, which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be divine."

– Josephus, Against Apion, 1.8 c. 100.

In the centuries around the beginning of the Common Era the sacred literature of the Jews numbered in the hundreds. Only a few texts were actually selected for the 'canon' of Hebrew scripture, those stories that tradition had recognized as 'divine'.


First and foremost were the books of 'the Law', originally written during the reign of King Josiah (641-611 BC). The so-called Mosaic code or Torah (aka the Pentateuch) formed the core of an 'approved list' drawn up in the 4th century BC by an author who was a scribe/politico and racial purist. He wrote under the pseudonym of Esdras (Ezra).


The set of books known as 'the Prophets' or '12 heroes of Israel' (there are actually 17 of them) gained recognition during the early 2nd century BC.


'The Writings' – psalms, proverbs, and wisdom literature – were the last to receive the priestly seal of approval and the rabbis argued over some of them into the 3rd century AD.


But as it was, a reconstituted council of the Sanhedrin met in Jamnia in 90 and again in 118 AD, and pronounced on what was divine and what was profane.


Significantly, they rejected the newer books – such as Jubilees, Enoch, Maccabees, Proverbs, Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes and Esther – the very works popular with proto-Christian heretics.

"Those who undertake to write histories, do not, I perceive, take that trouble on one and the same account, but for many reasons ... there are not a few who are induced to draw their historical facts out of darkness into light, and to produce them for the benefit of the public, on account of the great importance of the facts themselves with which they have been concerned." – Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews

Josephus is our primary source of the history of the Jews in the 1st century AD. He was also a primary source for the 2nd century Christian novelists. His histories provided an essential background and authentic detail which allowed them to place their fabricated saviour in a convincing historical setting.


Four of Josephus's works survive: The Jewish War (a history of the Jewish revolt against Rome, 66-74); Antiquities of the Jews (a more comprehensive history of the Jews, based mainly on Jewish scripture); Against Apion (a defence of Judaism); and an autobiography Life (which reveals some interesting parallels to the 'life' of the apostle Paul).

 

[Mokiti]

Mimi nawawekea ushahidi , mtaita mnavyopenda lakini ukweli sitouficha

Hayo ma copy paste hujajibu hoja ,
Usiwe na wewe unafanya plagiarism unapoyatoa sioni kama unaweka acknowledgement

 

[Gavana]

Hayo ma copy paste hujajibu hoja ,
Usiwe na wewe unafanya plagiarism unapoyatoa sioni kama unaweka acknowledgement

Acknowlegment utaweka mwenyewe , wacha dawa ikuingie


Oddities:

– John's Gospel is the work of a trained mind who wrote good Greek with some semitizing; but Acts 4.13 says that John was illiterate.

– John makes little reference to Galilee, which is scarcely what we would expect from a native of the province, especially since Galilee (supposedly) was the centre of Christ’s ministry. Nor does he mention at all his brother James.

– John makes frequent and unnecessary references to the "the Jews", as if they were a hostile group, e.g. "as I said unto the Jews" (John 13.33) said by Jesus (a Jew) to a group of Jews. He was one of them, was he not? John's knowledge of Judaism is also tainted. Critics cite John 18.13 in this regard (as if there were an annual priest): "and brought him first to Annas, who was the father-in-law of Caiaphas, the high priest that year."

– The author of this work would hardly refer to himself as "the disciple Jesus loved."

– John does NOT mention the 'Transfiguration' – when supposedly Jesus was joined by Moses and Eliijah (Elias) on a mountain top, transformed into "glory" and was addressed by God himself – an astounding omission considering that we are informed by each of the synoptic gospels that John was one of only three eye witnesses to this stunning miracle!

"And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them. And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus." – Mark 9.2,9.

– Similarly, John omits any mention of the raising of Jairus's daughter but according to Mark's gospel it was John who was a privileged witness:

"And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James. And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly ... And straightway the damsel arose, and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great astonishment." – Mark 5.37,42.

– Nor does John mention the 'Ascension', one of the crucial events of the whole Christian story. Yet apparently John was a witness to this grand finale whereas the two reporters of the bizarre story (Mark and Luke) were not!

"And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you ... And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven." – Luke 24.33,51.

 

[Wazolee]

Na Nikuulize kwani waizraeli ndio akina Nani???12tribes of Israel ndio Nani???Kama Mwafrika Mweusi ndiye wa kwanza kwa dunia Basi sisi ndio watoto wake Abraham,watoto wa Isaac[emoji108]Real Jews[emoji108]and Jesus is King of Jews,King of kings and Lord of lord's!!
Let the whole world bow before Him!![emoji120]Sina makosa

Sihitaji mahubiri yako mahubiri ya kudanganyana nenda ukafanyie kanisani na wakristo wenzako

Jibu swali nimekuuliza katika Hawa Yesu wawili wewe unamfuata Yesu gani?

Yesu wa kweli aliyetumwa na Mungu kwa ajili ya wana wa Israel

Mathayo 15:24 (KJV)
Akajibu, akasema, Sikutumwa ila kwa kondoo waliopotea wa nyumba ya Israeli.

Yohana 17:3 (KJV)
Na uzima wa milele ndio huu, Wakujue wewe, Mungu wa pekee wa kweli, na Yesu Kristo uliyemtuma.

Yesu wa uongo aliyetengenezwa na Paulo ili kuwadanya watu na yeye ajipe utume

Tito 2:13 (KJV)
tukilitazamia tumaini lenye baraka na mafunuo ya utukufu wa Kristo Yesu, Mungu mkuu na Mwokozi wetu;

 

[Mokiti]

Acknowlegment utaweka mwenyewe , wacha dawa ikuingie


Oddities:

Kwa Nini na wewe unakuwa mwizi wa kazi za watu , tunazungumzia hapa muhammad kachukua character wa kiyahudi kafanya wake bila acknowledgement na wewe unaiba kazi za watu

 

[UHURU JR]

Kwenye Quran kuna neno Yehova/Yahwe?
Mungu WA Quran ni Allah.
Allah na Yehova ni miungu wawili tofauti karibu Kwa kila kitu.
Ila Allah yeye ndiye kaiba kazi za Yehova.

Nikakuambia Wakristo achana nao maana huwajui kivyovyote.
Wakristo wapo madhehebu mengi na yapo ambayo hayaamini huo Utatu.

Tunachojadili hapa ni kilichopo kwenye Biblia.
Nitakuuliza swali, Utatu kwenye Biblia upo? Kama upo toa nukuu.

Tofautisha mapokeo ya wanadamu yaliyopo katika Dini na sheria za Mungu.
Ndio maana nikakuambia unahitajika upate shule ya mambo haya.

Kwa mfano, mapokeo ya binadamu yanaweza kusema mtu akila chakula itampasa anawe mikono.
Lakini hakuna sheria za Mungu katika vitabu vyake vinavyomtaka mtu anawe mikono ndipo Ale chakula.

Ndio maana Yesu akasema, Ya kaisari mpeni Kaisari...

Nakupa mfano mwingine,
Sheria za Mungu zimetaja Aina ya Aina wanyama wanaotakiwa kuliwa kama chakula lakini haijataja Aina ya mapishi.
Hivyo mapishi ni mapokeo ya wanadamu Ila chakula ni sheria za Mungu.

Elimu ni muhimu hakika

Kwenye biblia kuna sehemu hata moja Yehova kakitaja hicho kitabu cha biblia? Unatumia vigezo gani kusema kuwa Yehova ni Mungu wa Biblia?

Biblia ina zaidi ya maandiko mnayodai kuwa ndio maandiko halisi ya Torat,Zaburi na Injili ambavyo vinajulikana ni vya Yehova. Nimesema sana kuwa kwenye Biblia kuna makorokoro mengi hadi mengine yamebaguliwa kuwekwa humo sasa hapo unaanzaje kumuhusisha Yehova na kitabu cha aina hiyo kwa sababu tu kuna maandiko ndani yake mnayodai ni ya wayahudi?

Halafu huwezi kuacha kuwajadili wakristo kwenye kuzungumzia biblia maana ndio wenye kitabu chao.

 

[Mokiti]

Kwenye biblia kuna sehemu hata moja Yehova kakitaja hicho kitabu cha biblia? Unatumia vigezo gani kusema kuwa Yehova ni Mungu wa Biblia?

Biblia ina zaidi ya maandiko mnayodai kuwa ndio maandiko halisi ya Torat,Zaburi na Injili ambavyo vinajulikana ni vya Yehova. Nimesema sana kuwa kwenye Biblia kuna makorokoro mengi hadi mengine yamebaguliwa kuwekwa humo sasa hapo unaanzaje kumuhusisha Yehova na kitabu cha aina hiyo kwa sababu tu kuna maandiko ndani yake mnayodai ni ya wayahudi?

Halafu huwezi kuacha kuwajadili wakristo kwenye kuzungumzia biblia maana ndio wenye kitabu chao.

Mbona unarukaruka tu hutaki kujibu hoja , nimesubiria humu mpaka tupo page ya 76 sioni mkijaribu kujibu

 

[Gavana]

Kwa Nini na wewe unakuwa mwizi wa kazi za watu , tunazungumzia hapa muhammad kachukua character wa kiyahudi kafanya wake bila acknowledgement na wewe unaiba kazi za watu

Kwani si tuko mahakamani au umechanganyikiwa ??? Dawa zinaanza kukuendesha duble duble ?

​

Where Did They Get Their Ideas From?​

​ Herod Antipas ​

A Tale of Two Censuses : Sulpicius Quirinius (Greek "Cyrenius" in Luke), Governor of Syria, conducted a taxation census of Judaea during 6-7 AD after Rome had deposed Archelaus and had annexed this minor province. The prefect appointed to Judaea was Coponius. Quirinius' census – based on property not a head count – did not extend to Galilee, a client kingdom which remained under the tetrarch Herod Antipas. And no census would have required heavily pregnant maidens to make a 100 mile journey south! Oops! Now, Acts 5.33 purports to tell the story of the disciples in the 30s AD. It calls as a "witness" an archetypal Pharisee priest called "Gamaliel" who advises the Sanhedrin to release the imprisoned disciples "just in case they were doing God's work." As part of his dubious argument he cites the fate of two previous Messiahs – Judas the Galilean and Theudas. It just so happens Josephus (Ant. 20.5) also mentions both rebels – the Judas who raised a tax revolt under Coponius (about 6 AD) and "a certain magician Theudas" whose head was removed by the procurator Cuspius Fadus. Unfortunately for the Biblical chronology Fadus was appointed after the death of Herod Agrippa in 44 AD – "Gamaliel" is recalling an event which hasn't yet happened! Almost a century later – closer to his own time and no doubt influencing the author of Luke – a census was taken in Egypt. The "Kata Oikian" census of 104 AD required temporary city dwellers to return to their regular domiciles. This census did not extend beyond the borders of Egypt. Luke's story is a 'pick'n'mix' of a dimly remembered history, used as a literary device to give his hero the 'prophesied' birth in Bethlehem. PS: Why on earth ... ? "Joseph also went up from Galilee ... to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be registered with Mary, his betrothed wife, who was with child." – Luke 2.4,5. What possible reason would the Romans have had to require Joseph to go to the city where a remote ancestor may have lived a thousand years earlier? And "all the world" similarly went to their own cities? The chaos would have been unimaginable. The assertion has a patently theological purpose and as history is nonsense.

 

[UHURU JR]

Hakuna kitabu cha Imani.
Ila vipo vitabu ambavyo watu wameamua kujenga Imani katika vitabu hivyo.
Kuna watu wanaimani lakini hawana vitabu.

Hata kina Ibrahimu, yakobo, Esau, Yusufu hawakuwa na vitabu lakini walikuwa na Imani.
Hata Sisi Waafrika tulikuwa tunaimani katika Dini zetu lakini hatukuwa na vitabu.

Ndio maana nikakuambia Wewe kuna mambo ya Msingi hauyajui hasa yanayohusu Falsafa/theolojia.

Ila ukiwa na Nia ya kujua Kwa mwendo huu utaelewa.

Hata sijui kama hata wewe mwenyewe unaelewa unachokiongea.

Unaposema watu kujenga imani kwenye kitabu ndio maana yake nini? Unaweza kufafanua?

Biblia ni katika vitabu vya dini na ndio maana nikakwambia biblia ni kitabu cha imani, sasa ukisema hakuna kitabu cha imani bali mtu ndio anaweka imani kwenye kitabu basi tungekuwa na waumini wa vitabu vya hisabati na kiswahili.

Msingi wa hivi vitabu umejengwa kwenye imani na malengo makuu ni kutujenga kiimani na wala sio kuzungumzia historia ya dunia au sijui vitu gani.

 

[UHURU JR]

Mbona unarukaruka tu hutaki kujibu hoja , nimesubiria humu mpaka tupo page ya 76 sioni mkijaribu kujibu

Hoja zipi unataka zijibiwe? Jamaa kaja na mitazamo yake kuhusu Biblia na Qur'an ambayo inatakiwa ijadiliwe maana ndio palipomfanya ajenge hizo hoja.

Mtu anakwambia Muhammad sijui hakutoa credit sijui kakopy maandiko ya Torat na kufanya Qur'an ndio chanzo, sasa Muhammad aliwahi kusema kwamba Qur'an ni maneno yake mwenyewe yale? Kiasi hadi uanze kusema et hakuwepo wakati hayo matukio yanatokea.
Mara anakwambia mpaka Muhammad anakufa Qur'an haikuwepo, sasa huyo mtu anaelewa hata hiyo Qur'an yenyewe ni nini na anajua anachokiongea?

 

[Mokiti]

Hoja zipi unataka zijibiwe? Jamaa kaja na mitazamo yake kuhusu Biblia na Qur'an ambayo inatakiwa ijadiliwe maana ndio palipomfanya ajenge hizo hoja.

Mtu anakwambia Muhammad sijui hakutoa credit sijui kakopy maandiko ya Torat na kufanya Qur'an ndio chanzo, sasa Muhammad aliwahi kusema kwamba Qur'an ni maneno yake mwenyewe yale? Kiasi hadi uanze kusema et hakuwepo wakati hayo matukio yanatokea.
Mara anakwambia mpaka Muhammad anakufa Qur'an haikuwepo, sasa huyo mtu anaelewa hata hiyo Qur'an yenyewe ni nini na anajua anachokiongea?

Kwa Nini Allah akachukua story za wayahudi ? Kwa Nini hakuwa na story mpya za Muhammad tu

 

[UHURU JR]

Hapo ndipo unakwama,
Hujui hata kinachohadiliwa hapa ni kitu gani,
Quran na Biblia ndio wapo mahakamani.
Na sio Wakristo na waislam.

Nijibu, Wewe Mtanzania unayeiamini Torati, zaburi na Injili uliwahi kuviona wapi vitabu hivyo hapa nchini zaidi ya kwenye Biblia?
Embu nifanyie Citation moja ya Aya ya Torati au Zaburi au Injili bila ya kuitoa kwenye Biblia.

Nakusubiri

Aisee! Hivyo vitabu havipo tena, madai ya kwamba hivyo vitabu vipo kwenye biblia ni kwa wenye kuamini hivyo ila mimi nachojua maandiko yaliyokuwa kwenye vitabu vya Torat, Zaburi na Injili yalitiwa mkono.

 

[Mokiti]

Aisee! Hivyo vitabu havipo tena, madai ya kwamba hivyo vitabu vipo kwenye biblia ni kwa wenye kuamini hivyo ila mimi nachojua maandiko yaliyokuwa kwenye vitabu vya Torat, Zaburi na Injili yalitiwa mkono.

Leta ambayo hayakutiwa mikono ya kipindi hicho hicho ili tulinganishe na ya kipindi hicho hicho tuone walitia mkono wapi

Mfano tuna zaburi za Daudi , Sasa tuletee zaburi za Daudi ambazo hazijatiwa mikono tulinganishe na tulizo nazo

 

[UHURU JR]

Leta ambayo hayakutiwa mikono ya kipindi hicho hicho ili tulinganishe na ya kipindi hicho hicho tuone walitia mkono wapi

Mfano tuna zaburi za Daudi , Sasa tuletee zaburi za Daudi ambazo hazijatiwa mikono tulinganishe na tulizo nazo

Aisee! Soma kwa kuzingatia, nimesema hivyo vitabu havipo tena, sasa unaniambia kuletee ambavyo havijatiwa mkono? Kama vingekuwepo nisingesema havipo tena.

 

[Mokiti]

Aisee! Soma kwa kuzingatia, nimesema hivyo vitabu havipo tena, sasa unaniambia kuletee ambavyo havijatiwa mkono? Kama vingekuwepo nisingesema havipo tena.

Sasa havipo au vimetiwa mikono?

 

[UHURU JR]

Issue ni kwamba Allah katajataja majina ya wayahudi na hakuna habari za kutosheleza katoa ndipo lazima ukisoma Koran uende kwenye vitabu vya wayahudi ukapate maelezo ya kutosha , Koran imepwaya sana

Niliwauliza unakuta Allah anamuelezea yakuub mara gafla jina linatoka yakub linakuwa is Israel wewe unaweza toa sababu kwa kutumia Koran jina limebadilika kwa Nini , na unaweza kutumia Koran ukajua Israel maana yake nini?

Nadhani hapo kwenye kwanini Allah azungumzie story za wayahudi tumeelewana?

 

[Mokiti]

Nadhani hapo kwenye kwanini Allah azungumzie story za wayahudi tumeelewana?

Hatujaelewana , wayahudi hawajawahi kuwa na mungu anaitwa Allah