Mkataba (MoU) kati ya Serikali na Kanisa Katoliki na Taasisi nyingine za Kidini

[Topical]

kama bado ni maombi hoja kwamba MoU yenu imekataliwa imetoka wapi?

Maaskofu hawatakubali (udini) kama ambavyo walikuwa wakifoka wakati wa OIC na mahakama ya kadhi same applies..sidhani kwa udini wa nchi hii wa kupendelea wakristo kama watapewa.

 

[Zing]

Mkuu unatumia msuli mkubwa kutetea ufisadi wa kanisa kwa mali ya umma (udini unakupofusha mkuu)

Hapana situmii nguvu kuteteta ufisadi.Infact kanisa pia liko mble kupiga vita ufisadi huku baahi ya wanaojifanya wanapinga uonevu tena wanajiita wanadini safi mnaagalia dini kwanza kabla ya kuamua kurusha mawe kukemea ouvu.

Nachongea hapa ni kile ninachojua, Nilichoona na nilichoexperince. Siongeli kama mtu aliyezliwa kukulia na kishi Dar mji niau Mwanza mjini au arusha mjini au kigoma mjini. Kunawezekana kuwa na ufisadi kwenye matumizi ya fedhaa lakini Sioni tatizo kwenye MoU as Mou. Inawezekana kanisa linokena linapewa Billioni 91 kube hasa linapatiwa bilioni 40 nyingine zinaingia kwenye account za watu.

Narudi tena hii Mou inaweza kuwa tatizo kwa watu amabao hospitali kwao ni Muhimbili,bugando, KCMC. Kwa watoto wa mujini Kweli hii Mou ni unyonyaji. lakini kwa watuu anayetazama strategicaly tanzania basi ajiulize

• Kwa nini serikali inashindwa kuajiri walimu, , madkatari na kuwapeleka wilayani na vijin. kw anini Kanis alinawezza kuweka hopitali kijijini na bado ikawa na wafanyakazi wataalam.?

Soma article VIII...ya MoU hapo juu.
"Tafsiri yangu " serikali itatoa fedha kwenye shule zinazomilikiwa na kanisa pamoja na kutafauta misaa nje ya nchi kwa niaba ya kanisa"..

But nadhani unajua Mou Sio katiba na unajua Msaada sio Wajibu. Labda kama sielwi lugha. kingine elewa hakuna shule inayopokea senti ya serikali kama ipo shue inayopkea pesa ya seriali sio kutokana na hiyo. Mambo ya pesa ni kwenye hospitali tu

Why should goverment do all this for church owned schools?

Tunajua hopitali za bungando, KCMCM, Turiani, Sengerema zianpokea fund za serikali ebu tajeni shule moja inayopokea fund

While maaskofu hawataki hata nchi ijiunge na OIC wakati wanataka serikali itafute misaada kwa niaba ya miradi yao...

Hapa si tunajadili Mou. Ina maana kwako wewe Mou ingekuwa ni sahihi kama OIC iingekubalika . Anyy way fufua thread ya OIC

Acheni hizo bana huu ni udini uliokithiri na wasomi wengi kama wewe lazima kutetea? hapo ndipo napata shida kama pesa za umma zitakuwa salama kweli??

Mimi sitetei najua kuna tatizo lakini approcah unayotumia wewe ni ya jazba na chuki. Think strtegically kama decision maker. Hivi ukisikia Kikwete ana na CCM wanajisifia mafaniko ya afya waithout Subsidies ingefanikiwa?

Ni rahisi sana kuvunja Mou sbabu sio Mkataba lakkini consequnces zake ni nini. Hiyo hiyo serikali mnayoteta mbunge ndio anapata mshahara mkubwa kuliko afsa elimu wa wilaya au Mkoa au hata mnganga mkuu wa mkoa. kwa nini serikali ikmpnagia grauate kazi hopitali ya wilaya kama kigoma, Lindi, Mtwara hawaedi lakini hao hao grauate wanakwenda kuajiriwa na hopitali za misheni huo wilayani?

Ebu sema Serikali imekata fund hizo then

• kila mkoa wagonjwa wawili wakawa refered muhimbili kila siku sababu serikali imeziondolea capacity kukiwa hakuna contigency measure
• Kila wilaya na vijiji zikawa zikarefered wagonjwa watatu kwenda hospitali za koa kila siku just because hopitali za misheni zai wilani na vijini zimeodolewa capacity

Can u guess waht will happen? Mnapoongea haya ambo wakatii tunatafuta suluisho tuelewe tanzania ni kubwa.

 

[Topical]

Kuna ndugu zako waislam wengi tu wanaofaidika na hii miradi ambao wanaweza kuwa watetezi mara 100 zaidi ya mwanakijiji.

Sawa kanisa =epa =richmond ila milango tofauti ya kuchukua pesa za umma

Hata miradi ya EL na RA tunafaidi sana so you have no moral authority kukemea ufisadi mwingine kaeni kimya

Wenye morals (ambao hawatetei ufisadi wa kanisa) waseme..kaeni kimya.

 

[Linyakalumbi]

Hapa hujaongea kitu..ni kejeli tu..

Jipange upya

Bado kanisa linaiba kutoka serikali pesa za kuendesha miradi yake..period

Shule ziko nyingi usipandie treni kwa mbele..soma thread nzima ndio uje na bandiko lako hapa

Sawa Kiongozi,lakini hata wewe hujanielewa,nimekwambia hii nimeokota kwa Saed Kubenea,Inamaana hazijui shule za Kiislam kweli?Hazijui zahanati kweli?Ndio asitaje hata moja?Basi Kuniondoa shaka ili tueleweshane hebu leta hata 3 au 4 hivi.By the way,hapa ruzuku inazungumziwa ya Afya-Hospitali mnazo ngapi kiasi mnahisi kuminywa hizo ruzuku(ratio distribution per number of health centers-hospital),Elimu-Primary,Sekondary and Higher learning Ratios.Maana isiwe tu 3:4 wakati mwingine ana 20 mwingine 5?Sijui hesabu mimi,hii inakubalika kweli?Ni dhambi kutumia pesa za Serikali kuhudumia Kanisa au Msikiti NOOOOOOOO.Kwa sababu sio wote tuta-sali au tuta-swali.Lakini kama Msikiti unajenga Hospitali na serikali haina uwezo,watu wamechanga sadaka zao hazitoshi,kwa nini Serikali isijazie wakati inasaidiwa kuwahudumia watu wake?Kanisa linaanzisha Chuo kikuu,Serikali ina majengo wanaishi popo,wape,lakini watoe elimu kwa niaba ya serikali ambayo haina dini sio?Hakuna kubaguana.Nafikiri hili ndio la msingi.Waislam mnaweza kuwa na hoja,lakini Je,hapa Kama kuna Ushahidi kama walivyoomba wengine hapa JF,kwamba hizo pesa Wamejenga Makanisa ambayo Waislam hawataenda hapo napo tatizo.Kitu ambacho nina uhakika hamna,Huduma za afya wazitoazo ni mbovu hiyo ni shida,hapana huduma nzuri mpaka watu wanakimbilia huko.Kuna Kituo Kimoja hivi cha afya cha Kanisa Katoliki maarufu kama kwa Buruda-Mbagala(Njia panda ya Mbagala kuu),nilipita siku moja pale,nadhani wakazi wa pale wengi wanaoishi dar wanawajua,ni wazee wa Kiislam wanapapenda kwelikweli kwa huduma wanazopewa tena na Masista,ukarimu mpaka wazee wanawasifu.No segregation there.Na hata hicho mnacholalamikia Kiukweli sio fedha kivile,Ni misamaha ya kodi kwa bidhaa za aina hii katika nyanja za afya na elimu.Kama ni fedha ina maana Serikali inakuwa imejichanganya maeneo fulani kwa hiyo inawezesha kukamilika kwa wakati hayo yanayokuwa yanatakiwa.Kwa mfano:Waislam wanataka nao Vijana wao waliokosa fursa waanze mara moja Elimu ya JUU.Kujenga Chuo Kikuu itachukua miaka mingi(kuanzia 6-10).Kwa hiyo badala ya kuwapa Msamaha wa Kodi kwenye Bidhaa za Ujenzi wa Chuo Kikuu chao,Basi Tuwape yale Majengo ya Tanesco morogoro badala ya kuacha yawe makazi ya popo.Nadhani ndio staili inayoweza kuinterchange msamaha wa kodi to time factor ya suala husika.Nakuomba radhi kukuita bibie pale awali Mkuu.

 

[Topical]

@zing

Approach ya jazba na chuki ndiyo nini?

Kwa hiyo tukisema kanisa linapewa pesa za umma kwa upendeleo ni jazba na chuki

Unaongelea experience wakati maandishi aricle VII inaitaka serikali ku-endoevour money (financial) above all wanatakiwa wa solicit fund kutoka nje as a guarantee kwa miradi ya kanisa..nimetoa mfano wa OIC (maana hata hiyo imepingwa na viongozi wenu) walau taasisi za kiislam zinge solicit fund s kutoka nje wanaona hata hilo wivu (udini)..huku wao wakisaini na serikali agreement ambayo inafund miradi yao..bado kwa hai click..

Hiyo MoU ili iwe haki either ifutwe au iwe open to all religious institutions...na serikali iruhusiwe kufanya auditing kama kweli zinatumika vilivyo..kuliko arguments unazoweka hapa za experience (without evidence) tutajuache kama ndio padre mwenyewe unayefuta hizo pesa..za umma kama kina RA...

 

[Safety last]

Naomba kujuzwa hospitali moja tu ya Rufaa iliyojengwa na waislam moja tu ili Jk awape MoU,maana watu wanalalama sana hapa

 

[Zimmermann]

Kwani shule na hospitali za waislamu hazitoi msaada kwa jamii mbona hawapewi special treatment kama za kanisa?

Special treatment mnapata nyie waislam mliopewa majengo ya tanesco bure....mkaanzisha chuo kinachoitwa Muslim University of Morogoro ambacho wanafunzi wote wanaokuwa enrolled pale ni 99.9%ni muslims...staff wote pale 99.9% ni muslims....ndani ya chuo kuna msikiti tu ,hakuna hata kachumba ka waumini wa madhebu mengine...! Nenda SAUT , TUMAINI ...utakuta ulimwengu tofauti kabisa.....mpaka misikiti ndani ya vyuo!
Jiulize nafsi yako tofauti ya hizo taasisi ni nini? nadhani ukijiuliza vizuri unaweza kupata idea labda ni kwanini MoU aliyoiandaa shehe Ponda bado iko pending.

 

[Mkandara]

Kuna ndugu zako waislam wengi tu wanaofaidika na hii miradi ambao wanaweza kuwa watetezi mara 100 zaidi ya mwanakijiji.

Mkuu wangu hakuna muislaam anayeafiki MoU labda Mh. Ustadh Mwinyi laa sivyo waislaam wangejulishwa kwa nini usainiwe kisiri wakati ni swala la kikatiba? kwa nini hamtaki kuelewa isipokuwa mnalazimisha!

 

[Topical]

Sawa Kiongozi,lakini hata wewe hujanielewa,nimekwambia hii nimeokota kwa Saed Kubenea,Inamaana hazijui shule za Kiislam kweli?Hazijui zahanati kweli?Ndio asitaje hata moja?Basi Kuniondoa shaka ili tueleweshane hebu leta hata 3 au 4 hivi.By the way,hapa ruzuku inazungumziwa ya Afya-Hospitali mnazo ngapi kiasi mnahisi kuminywa hizo ruzuku(ratio distribution per number of health centers-hospital),Elimu-Primary,Sekondary and Higher learning Ratios.Maana isiwe tu 3:4 wakati mwingine ana 20 mwingine 5?Sijui hesabu mimi,hii inakubalika kweli?Ni dhambi kutumia pesa za Serikali kuhudumia Kanisa au Msikiti NOOOOOOOO.Kwa sababu sio wote tuta-sali au tuta-swali.Lakini kama Msikiti unajenga Hospitali na serikali haina uwezo,watu wamechanga sadaka zao hazitoshi,kwa nini Serikali isijazie wakati inasaidiwa kuwahudumia watu wake?Kanisa linaanzisha Chuo kikuu,Serikali ina majengo wanaishi popo,wape,lakini watoe elimu kwa niaba ya serikali ambayo haina dini sio?Hakuna kubaguana.Nafikiri hili ndio la msingi.Waislam mnaweza kuwa na hoja,lakini Je,hapa Kama kuna Ushahidi kama walivyoomba wengine hapa JF,kwamba hizo pesa Wamejenga Makanisa ambayo Waislam hawataenda hapo napo tatizo.Kitu ambacho nina uhakika hamna,Huduma za afya wazitoazo ni mbovu hiyo ni shida,hapana huduma nzuri mpaka watu wanakimbilia huko.Kuna Kituo Kimoja hivi cha afya cha Kanisa Katoliki maarufu kama kwa Buruda-Mbagala(Njia panda ya Mbagala kuu),nilipita siku moja pale,nadhani wakazi wa pale wengi wanaoishi dar wanawajua,ni wazee wa Kiislam wanapapenda kwelikweli kwa huduma wanazopewa tena na Masista,ukarimu mpaka wazee wanawasifu.No segregation there.Na hata hicho mnacholalamikia Kiukweli sio fedha kivile,Ni misamaha ya kodi kwa bidhaa za aina hii katika nyanja za afya na elimu.Kama ni fedha ina maana Serikali inakuwa imejichanganya maeneo fulani kwa hiyo inawezesha kukamilika kwa wakati hayo yanayokuwa yanatakiwa.Kwa mfano:Waislam wanataka nao Vijana wao waliokosa fursa waanze mara moja Elimu ya JUU.Kujenga Chuo Kikuu itachukua miaka mingi(kuanzia 6-10).Kwa hiyo badala ya kuwapa Msamaha wa Kodi kwenye Bidhaa za Ujenzi wa Chuo Kikuu chao,Basi Tuwape yale Majengo ya Tanesco morogoro badala ya kuacha yawe makazi ya popo.Nadhani ndio staili inayoweza kuinterchange msamaha wa kodi to time factor ya suala husika.Nakuomba radhi kukuita bibie pale awali Mkuu.

Umedandia treni kwa mbele anza kusoma upya hii tread utaona mahali hilo swali nimeulizwa mara nyingi

Nimetaja shule na hospitali za waislamu zenye hadhi kubwa kupita za serikali yet inaendeshwa kwa sadaka za waumini..bila misaada ya pesa umma..

Sasa nyie wakristo kutetea ufisadi wa kanisa ndio misamami yenu..hela za umma kwa miradi ya kanisa MUST END!

 

[Zing]

Zing,

Angalia usije kuadhirika tu maana unazungumza na mtu makini na najua nini nazungumza ulitaka kujua kifungu gani kimebadilishwa? Soma hapa namnukuu Sheikh Mohamed Said katika paper yake Christian Hegemony and Rise of Muslim militancy. anasema hivi;
"
This agreement was prepared by Dr. Costa Mahalu , Dar Es Salaam University Faculty of Law and was signed by Minister of State in Prime Minister's Office and First Vice-President, Edward Lowassa. The main purpose of the agreement was to turn over education, health and social services to Christian Council of Tanzania (CCT) and Tanzania Episcopal Conference(TEC). These social services were to be run jointly between the government and the Church. This agreement, that is, the Memorandum of Understanding was prepared and signed without even consulting or informing Muslims. In order for the memorandum to take effect the government had to ammend article 30 of the Education Act No. 25 of 1978."


Katafute hiyo Act uisome na ujiulize maswali. Narudia tena this MoU is morally wrong and socially illegal period.

Haya mdondoaji nimesoma acct ya ya mwaka 1978

hii hapa naiattach
View attachment National Education Act 1978.pdf
Kama niko sahihi section 40 inahusu nini
30 Take-over of private school by Government. ( Hii take over ndio mohmed said anazungumzia sijui aliilewaje)

Take-over 3
0.-(1) Where, in the opinion of the Minister, any private school of private school by
(a) has failed to provide national education whose category, nature or level is in the public interest; or Government
(b) has been closed or its registration has been cancelled and it is not likely to be reopened; or
(c) the owner or manager is no longer able to maintain the school; or No. 25 National Education 1978 19
(d) the service and facilities provided at the school would be enhanced for the benefit of the public if it were a public school, he may, after consultation with the Minister for the time being responsible for finance, by order published in the Gazette, require the owner or manager
of that school to hand over to the Commissioner the management and maintenance of the school.

(2) Where the Minister makes an order under subsection (1), all the buldings and other property of the school shall, without further assurance,
vest in the Commissioner on behalf of the Government.
(3) Upon the take-over by the Government of any private school the Government shall pay such compensation to the former owner or manager
of the school as the Minister for the time being responsible for financeshall consider to be fair, taking into account all relevant circumstances

@Mdondoaji

• Haya weka act iliyobadilishwa kulifavour kanisa specifically na sio kuvutia wawekezaji kwenye elimu kiujumla.
• Tumabie ni kifungu gani kwenye act mpya kilichofavour kanisa.? Ni kuaifisha shule au ownership?
• Je tunaweza kukubaliana japo kwa act hii ya elimu mwaka 1978 Nyerere anahitaji Sifa? Maana kama iliyobadilsihwa inalifavour kanisa iliyokuwepo ilimfavour nani? Kama na hiyo ya nyerere ilifavor kanisa act ilitakiwa kuwaje?

 

[Topical]

Special treatment mnapata nyie waislam mliopewa majengo ya tanesco bure....mkaanzisha chuo kinachoitwa Muslim University of Morogoro ambacho wanafunzi wote wanaokuwa enrolled pale ni 99.9%ni muslims...staff wote pale 99.9 ni muslims....ndani ya chuo kuna msikiti tu ,hakuna hata kachumba ka waumini wa madhebu mengine...! Nenda SAUT , TUMAINI ...utakuta ulimwengu tofauti kabisa.....mpaka misikiti ndani ya vyuo!
Jiulize nafsi yako tofauti ya hizo taasisi ni nini? nadhani ukijiuliza vizuri unaweza kupata idea labda ni kwanini MoU aliyoiandaa shehe Ponda bado iko pending.

Acha hizo..

Special treatment ya bil...9 kila mwaka kutoka hazina ya nchi kwenda kanisani

Special treatment kupewa majengo ya "Mazengo Secondary ya Dodoma" my school majengo ya serikali..

Kuna upendeleo kama huo.

 

[Mkandara]

Haya mdondoaji nimesoma acct ya ya mwaka 1978

hii hapa naiattach
View attachment 40516
Kama niko sahihi section 40 inahusu nini
30 Take-over of private school by Government.

Take-over 3
0.-(1) Where, in the opinion of the Minister, any private school of private school by
(a) has failed to provide national education whose category, nature or level is in the public interest; or Government
(b) has been closed or its registration has been cancelled and it is not likely to be reopened; or
(c) the owner or manager is no longer able to maintain the school; or No. 25 National Education 1978 19
(d) the service and facilities provided at the school would be enhanced for the benefit of the public if it were a public school, he may, after consultation with the Minister for the time being responsible for finance, by order published in the Gazette, require the owner or manager
of that school to hand over to the Commissioner the management and maintenance of the school.

(2) Where the Minister makes an order under subsection (1), all the buldings and other property of the school shall, without further assurance,
vest in the Commissioner on behalf of the Government.
(3) Upon the take-over by the Government of any private school the Government shall pay such compensation to the former owner or manager
of the school as the Minister for the time being responsible for financeshall consider to be fair, taking into account all relevant circumstances

@Mdondoaji

• Haya weka act iliyobadilishwa specifically kulifavour kanisa
• Tumabie ni kifungu gani kwenye cat mpya kilichofavour kanisa.? Ni kutotaifisha shule au ownership?
• Je tunaweza kukubalina japo kwa act hii ya elimu mwaka 1978 Nyerere anahitaji Sifa.Maana kama iliyobadilsihwa inalifavr kanisa iliyokuwepo ilimfavour nani? Kama na hiyo ya nyerere ilifavor kanisa act ilitakiwa kuwaje?

Mkuu mbona unachekesha? sasa wapi katika katiba hiyo kunaonyesha shule zirudishiwe makanisa?.. na inakuwaje wamerudishiwa ikiwa katiba haijabadilika..unaambiwa katiba imekuwa ammended bado unarudisha ile ya mwaka 1978 bila hata kuonyesha support ya kikatiba kwa kanisa kurudishiwa mali zake. Je,unafikri swala hili limefanyika kiholela? maanake hata sikuelewi kama kiholela ndio mbaya zaidi.

 

[Zing]

Mkuu wangu hakuna muislaam anayeafiki MoU labda Mh. Ustadh Mwinyi laa sivyo waislaam wangejulishwa kwa nini usainiwe kisiri wakati ni swala la kikatiba? kwa nini hamtaki kuelewa isipokuwa mnalazimisha!

Mkandara Sio kwmaba nataka kuitetea hii Mou ila nataka kuielwa uzito wake. So naomba nikuulize Wewe unadhani

• Mou kama hii ni nini hasa? role yke na postion yake kikatiba ikoje.
  
• kisheria tofauti ya MoU na mkataba ni nini
  
• Mfano kwenye mambo yaliyotajwa na kuongelwa kwenye mou serikalia u kanisa likiamua kuacha kuitekeleza tutegemee nini.

Najiuliza maswali haya ili nione kama kunaweza kuwa na kikwazo Kikubwa kisheria cha kujitoa kwenye Mou kama ilivyokuwa kwenye Dowans

 

[Zimmermann]

Mkuu wangu hakuna muislaam anayeafiki MoU labda Mh. Ustadh Mwinyi laa sivyo waislaam wangejulishwa kwa nini usainiwe kisiri wakati ni swala la kikatiba? kwa nini hamtaki kuelewa isipokuwa mnalazimisha!

Only kwa well to do people kama nyinyi ndiyo hamuafiki hiyo MoU . Nenda kawaulize wanavijiji waislam wanaoishi interior kabisa , ambao huduma zote za jamii zinategemea taasisi za kanisa uone watakujibu nini! Pamoja na hizi taasisi zilizopo bado serikali imeelemewa kutoa huduma kwa hiyo trend ndugu yangu ni taasisi za kanisa kuongeza huduma sehemu nyingine nyingi zaidi ili kupunguza madhila wanayopata watanzania. Hapa hata Dr Mrisho Kikwete ametoa baraka zake na assurance kwamba hiki kitu kitaendelea! Kwangu mimi kama nyinyi hamuoni manufaa na hamtaki kuandaa maombi yenu, nitafanya nini? Its your choice!

 

[Topical]

Only kwa well to do people kama nyinyi ndiyo hamuafiki hiyo MoU . Nenda kawaulize wanavijiji waislam wanaoishi interior kabisa , ambao huduma zote za jamii zinategemea taasisi za kanisa uone watakujibu nini! Pamoja na hizi taasisi zilizopo bado serikali imeelemewa kutoa huduma kwa hiyo trend ndugu yangu ni taasisi za kanisa kuongeza huduma sehemu nyingine nyingi zaidi ili kupunguza madhila wanayopata watanzania. Hapa hata Dr Mrisho Kikwete ametoa baraka zake na assurance kwamba hiki kitu kitaendelea! Kwangu mimi kama nyinyi hamuoni manufaa na hamtaki kuandaa maombi yenu, nitafanya nini? Its your choice!

unatetea ufisadi wa kanisa huo ndio udini..

Siyo lazima ubadilike lakini sisi tutapiga kelele tu..

 

[Mdondoaji]

Mkandara,

Unajua sijui kama Zing anafahamu alichokipost na pengine anaelewa kuwa Act ya 1978 (Education Act) ingelibakia kama iliyo mwaka 1978 basi MoU ingelikuwa illegal. Labda nimfafanulie Section 30 subsection 2 of the Education Act of 1978

If the government takes over in operating and handling private schools. These schools shall be under Commisioner of Education on behalf of the government.

Subsection 3 of the same act inasema hivi:

Upon the take-over by the Government of any private school the Government shall pay such compensation to the former owner or manager
of the school as the Minister for the time being responsible for finances hall consider to be fair, taking into account all relevant circumstances.

Hiyo inamaanisha mkuu shule za seminari zote na hospitali zake zilitakiwa ziwe chini ya uongozi wa serikali na usimamizi wa wizara. Vile vile kanisa wangelikuwa washapewa chao muda mrefu tangu 1992 na serikali ingelichukua responsibility ya kuziendesha hizo shule au hospitali.

Mkandara nashauri zing awatafute wanasheria wamtafsirie vipengele hivyo labda havifahamu vizuri na kwanini serikali iliamua kuvibadilisha kabla ya kusign MoU.

 

[Zing]

Mkuu mbona unachekesha? sasa wapi katika katiba hiyo kunaonyesha shule zirudishiwe makanisa?.. na inakuwaje wamerudishiwa ikiwa katiba haijabadilika..unaambiwa katiba imekuwa ammended bado unarudisha ile ya mwaka 1978 bila hata kuonyesha support ya kikatiba kwa kanisa kurudishiwa mali zake. Je,unafikri swala hili limefanyika kiholela? maanake hata sikuelewi kama kiholela ndio mbaya zaidi.

hahaha Mkandara
Nimeweka hiyo makusudi ili Mdondoaji aweke hapa ilivyobadilika article mpya ilikuwaje na ni kifungu gani hasa hicho cha elimu kilikuwa ammended kulifavor kanisa.

Kwa kesi ya Mohamed said na mdondoaji wao wanachukulia kufungulia milango ya watu kuwekza kweye elimu kama favour kwa kanisa. Mimi Naona hapo Mdondaji bdala ya kwenda kwenye hoja wanatafuta mchawi asiye mchawi.

Tatizo lingine linakuja pale Mdondoaji na Mohamed saidi wanapoona hata Education act ya Nyerere ya mwaka 1978 ilikuwa inawakandamiza waislam na wakati huo huo huo huo iliyabadilishwa na mwinyi kwa pressure ya IMF pia inawakadamiza waislam

Najua kuna hopitali Mzee mwinyi alirudisha kwa wawekzaji lakini inasemeka yalikuwa ni masharti ya IMF. Sio kanisa tu kuna matjiri kibao waislama kwa wakristu wahindi kw awaarabu walilipwa fidia na wengine kurudishiwa hata majumba yao yaliyotaifishwa.

Kuhsu elimu Je unaweza kunipa detail za shule gani zilirudishwa kwa kanisa

 

[Mkandara]

Mkandara Sio kwmaba nataka kuitetea hii Mou ila nataka kuielwa uzito wake. So naomba nikuulize Wewe unadhani

• Mou kama hii ni nini hasa? role yke na postion yake kikatiba ikoje.
  
• kisheria tofauti ya MoU na mkataba ni nini
  
• Mfano kwenye mambo yaliyotajwa na kuongelwa kwenye mou serikalia u kanisa likiamua kuacha kuitekeleza tutegemee nini.

Najiuliza maswali haya ili nione kama kunaweza kuwa na kikwazo Kikubwa kisheria cha kujitoa kwenye Mou kama ilivyokuwa kwenye Dowans

1. MoU kama hii ni nini? - Ni Upendeleo kimfumo ktk ugawaji wa mamlaka ya elimu nchini. Tulikataa Richmond sii kwa sababu hatukuwa na shida ya umeme au tuzungumzie Richmond ingeweza kusaidia kwa kiasi gani punguzo la mgao isipokuwa swala hapa ni kuwa mkataba ulikuwa sii halali - Kwisha kazi!

2. Tofauti ya Mou na mkataba - Mkataba, ni kwamba sheria inakuwepo kikatiba yaani mtu yeyote anayetaka kuwekeza ktk swala fulani anatakiwa kufuata hatua kadhaa wa kadha hadi kupewa liseni ya ku operate na sheria haichagui isipokuwa ipo wazi kwa mtu, shirika au Taasisi yoyote kufanya maadam wanafuata taratibu na sheria zilizowekwa wakati MoU ni muafaka baina ya serikali na taasisi moja tu, wengine hamna sheria wala vipozeo kama hivyo. Kwa hiyo hata JK anaposema waislaam nao waombe ni geresha kwa sababu hakuna ibara kikatiba inayowaruhusu waislaam kufanya hivyo..

3. Katika mambo yaliyokubaliana na kuwekwa sahihi kama mmoja wao atajitoa lazima kuwepo na ushahidi upande wa pili umekiuka sheria na makubaliano laa sivyo upande unaojitoa utatakiwa kulipa fidia ama kufikishwa mahakamani kwa kuvunja muafaka huu. Sasa kama kweli katiba haikuwa ammended na sheria ile ya mwaka 1978 bado inatumika. Serikali inaweza kumweka Costa Mahalu, Lowassa na mwakilishi wa kanisa hatiani kwa kuvunja sheria ya kikatiba. Mahalu na Lowassa kukabiriwa na kesi kama ya kina Yona na Mramba na yule wa kanisa kuhusika na hujuma..

Mimi nina hakika hawa wote sii wajinga kufanya kitu hiki bila kuwa na support kikatiba, hivyo walijua wanafanya nini na hakuna sheria ya kuvunja muafaka huu bila kutugharimu. It was wrong muswada wa kurusha mashule ungepitia bungeni na kupitishwa kisheria kwamba shule zote za private zilizochukuliwa zirudishwe kwa wenyewe na kama ni maswala ya ruzuku yangepangwa kulingana na wingi wa shule ama lolote lakini hata Hivyo tumeomba Uhuru wetu kuepuka mgawanyiko wa utoaji elimu kwa wananchi kwa sababu tuliziona athari zake wakati wa mkoloni.

 

[Zimmermann]

unatetea ufisadi wa kanisa huo ndio udini..

Siyo lazima ubadilike lakini sisi tutapiga kelele tu..

Wewe endelea kupiga kelele zenu za Diamond Jubilee. .... Wakati akina Amina ndiyo wanajifungulia kwenye hospitali za hizi taasisi , Akina Juma wakidondoka kwenye minazi ndiyo wanatibiwa hapohapo, mama Ashura na mwanae ndiyo anapata maji masafi ya kisima kwa matumizi ya nyumbani kutoka taasisi hizihizi.......! eti huu ni ufisadi! Ngoja nijipumzisha mie!

 

[Mdondoaji]

hahaha Mkandara
Nimeweka hiyo makusudi ili Mdondoaji aweke hapa ilivyobadilika article mpya ilikuwaje na ni kifungu gani hasa hicho cha elimu kilikuwa ammended kulifavor kanisa.

Kwa kesi ya Mohamed said na mdondoaji wao wanachukulia kufungulia milango ya watu kuwekza kweye elimu kama favour kwa kanisa. Mimi Naona hapo Mdondaji bdala ya kwenda kwenye hoja wanatafuta mchawi asiye mchawi.

Tatizo lingine linakuja pale Mdondoaji na Mohamed saidi wanapoona hata Education act ya Nyerere ya mwaka 1978 ilikuwa inawakandamiza waislam na wakati huo huo huo huo iliyabadilishwa na mwinyi kwa pressure ya IMF pia inawakadamiza waislam

Najua kuna hopitali Mzee mwinyi alirudisha kwa wawekzaji lakini inasemeka yalikuwa ni masharti ya IMF. Sio kanisa tu kuna matjiri kibao waislama kwa wakristu wahindi kw awaarabu walilipwa fidia na wengine kurudishiwa hata majumba yao yaliyotaifishwa.

Kuhsu elimu Je unaweza kunipa detail za shule gani zilirudishwa kwa kanisa

Zing,

Wewe tu usikimbie.

Amendment Act of 1995 of Education Act of 1978 inasema hivi:-

31.-(I) For the purpose of the management of schools
of Sec- under this Act, there shall be the following categories of
tion schools-
(a) Government schools of which shall consist all schools
maintained and managed by the Ministry or local authorities
and shall include pre- primary schools, primary
schools, secondary schools colleges of teachers
education and adult education centres;
(b) grant aided schools which shall consist of all community
schools owned and managed by a non-government
organization but gets subvention or grant in aid from
governmental organization;
(c) non-government schools which shall consist 4 all
schools wholly maintained and managed by Non-Governmental
Organizations.
(2) Subject to subsections(1) and (3) the owner of any
school of any category may, upon request made to the
appropriate authority and upon approval being granted by
the Minister, move the school from one category to
another.
(3) The approval granted under subsection (1) shall be
published in the Gazette.''

This section 22 repeal and replace section 31 of the Education Act No 25 of 1978.