S.M.P2503
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 25, 2008
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Soma guardian la uingereza labda utapata mwanga wa nini kinacho bishaniwa na nini ambacho hakiko disputed huo mahakamani London.
Soma guardian la uingereza labda utapata mwanga wa nini kinacho bishaniwa na nini ambacho hakiko disputed huo mahakamani London.Chief,are you certain that Tigo Tz gave such info to gavoo involuntarily?
Nimesoma. But my concern was if Tigo tz gave info access to gavoo by being forced or willingly kama mayor alivocoment. Just that ChiefSoma guardian la uingereza labda utapata mwanga wa nini kinacho bishaniwa na nini ambacho hakiko disputed huo mahakamani London.
Kwahiyo serikali ikitaka taarifa za mtu ili auwawe kampuni iliyoapa kuficha faragha za watu inatoa sio? Fatilia FBI walitaka taarifa za muarabu aliyedondosha simu(iphone) na kampuni ya apple iligoma kutoa taarifa na hakuna kitu FBI walifanya fatilia bhana.Vita yake ni internal (psychological), nje anapigana na upepo tu. Unaelewa shambulizi lake sio psychological sio ndogo.
Lakini ukimsikiliza unaona anahitaji intervention na huyo rafiki yake Amsterdam ndio anajaribu kutumia kila njia ya kujinyakulia hela Tanzania kupitia mgongo wa Lissu.
Wataishitaki serikali ya Tanzania nje ya nchi kwa shambulio lake kwa kutumia jurisdiction gani? Au international agreement ipo kwa domestic issues.
Halafu kasoma national security acts za Tanzania kweli karibu zote from 1970’s zinaipa mamlaka ya serikali kupewa access za info katika upelelezi wowote.
Huyo mzungu anadai remedy za unfair dismissal, Lissu yeye anataka kugeuza hiyo case about him.
Mnailaumu TiGO bure as if wana option, serikali ikitaka info zako hakuna kampuni ya simu itazuia. Watanzania mnataka kusema kama vile ilitoa info voluntarily tu.
Acha longolongo wewe, nani kakuambia beberu anajali visheria vyenu vilivyoandikwa kwa mkaa, hii kitu iko kwenye beberu jurisdiction na itakuwa prosecuted kwa sheria zao, na TIGO ni shirika lao lina trade London kwa sheria zao so watafunguka, nyie mtaitwa mmoja baada ya mwingine na mama hana protection yeyote juu yenu, kila mtu ajitetee kivyake na mtasema kila kitu, beberu hakurupuki ushahidi anao solid, this time mtaongea tuuVita yake ni internal (psychological), nje anapigana na upepo tu. Unaelewa shambulizi lake sio psychological sio ndogo.
Lakini ukimsikiliza unaona anahitaji intervention na huyo rafiki yake Amsterdam ndio anajaribu kutumia kila njia ya kujinyakulia hela Tanzania kupitia mgongo wa Lissu.
Wataishitaki serikali ya Tanzania nje ya nchi kwa shambulio lake kwa kutumia jurisdiction gani? Au international agreement ipo kwa domestic issues.
Halafu kasoma national security acts za Tanzania kweli karibu zote from 1970’s zinaipa mamlaka ya serikali kupewa access za info katika upelelezi wowote.
Huyo mzungu anadai remedy za unfair dismissal, Lissu yeye anataka kugeuza hiyo case about him.
Mnailaumu TiGO bure as if wana option, serikali ikitaka info zako hakuna kampuni ya simu itazuia. Watanzania mnataka kusema kama vile ilitoa info voluntarily tu.
Hakuna anayekataa usemago, ndio serekali inatakiwa kumpiga risasi badala ya kumpeleka mahakamani kama ana makosa? Au hizo sheria za mwaka 70 ndio zinataka mashambulizi ya vile? Kama ni serekali ndio ilifanya hivyo, hiyo kumtaka dereva wa Lisu ni wanini wakati shahidi tigo yupo.Vita yake ni internal (psychological), nje anapigana na upepo tu. Unaelewa shambulizi lake sio psychological sio ndogo.
Lakini ukimsikiliza unaona anahitaji intervention na huyo rafiki yake Amsterdam ndio anajaribu kutumia kila njia ya kujinyakulia hela Tanzania kupitia mgongo wa Lissu.
Wataishitaki serikali ya Tanzania nje ya nchi kwa shambulio lake kwa kutumia jurisdiction gani? Au international agreement ipo kwa domestic issues.
Halafu kasoma national security acts za Tanzania kweli karibu zote from 1970’s zinaipa mamlaka ya serikali kupewa access za info katika upelelezi wowote.
Huyo mzungu anadai remedy za unfair dismissal, Lissu yeye anataka kugeuza hiyo case about him.
Mnailaumu TiGO bure as if wana option, serikali ikitaka info zako hakuna kampuni ya simu itazuia. Watanzania mnataka kusema kama vile ilitoa info voluntarily tu.
ExactlyKama unajua concept ya universal jurisdiction, usingeweza kuandika hapa mambo ya "vicalicious liability"- acha kuchanganya madesa, ndio maana tunapigwa huko nje na habari za mikataba kwa kuchanganya mambo.
Yafaa ujue ni nini maana ya Universal jurisdiction: The principle of universal jurisdiction provides for a state’s jurisdiction over crimes against international law even when the crimes did not occur on that state's territory, and neither the victim nor perpetrator is a national of that state. The principle allows national courts in third countries to address international crimes occurring abroad, to hold perpetrators criminally liable, and to prevent impunity.
Kama mahakama zetu zimeshindwa, kesi hii ya Lissu yaweza kutumia hiyo principle na mambo yakaendelea kama walivyo mfanyia Milocevic na Charles taylor.
Na kuhusu Vicarious liability: is a legal principle that holds one party responsible for the actions of another party. It's often used in the context of employer-employee relationships, but can also apply to other contractual relationships.
Bilateral investment treaty (BIT): Hizi zinasaidia sana katika ku- enforce awards katika ISDS cases- Hakuna hata moja (ya hizi BiT -popote pale duniani humu) inayosema kwamba makampuni ya nje yatakingiwa kifua na serikali za nchi zao kwa kwa kufanya illegal acts- rejea kesi ya Tuna Bond - Msumbiji- ambapo kampuni moja lilikuwa linatoa mikopo kwa serikali na wananchi wanalipa mikopo hiyo, baada tu ya serikali kubadirika , kesi ikaaenda mahakamani huko huko London na kampuni likaamuliwa kuilipa serikali billions, ( Soma hapa: Mozambique wins court claim over corrupt Tuna Bonds - Spotlight on Corruption) Pia Rejea ni kwa nini serikali ya uingereza haikuikingia kifua BAE systens kuhusu yale mambo ya rada wakati Chenge...BAE Systems ilishitakiwa kwa kukiuka sheria na Tanzania ikarudishwa change ya rada, soma hapa: BAE criticised by UK MPs over Tanzania corruption . Kwa maana nyingine faini waliyopigwa ilizidi bei ya ra radar, Tanzania ni kama ilipewa bule hiyo kitu.
Nacho taka kusema nini? kama Tigo amehusika kwa namna yeyote ile - doctrine ya occupiers liability inamuhusu na huyo Tigo- hawezi kuchomoka... parent company ni la UK, mtoto wake yuko Tanzania, kafanya majambozi ya kutapanya data za watu bila idhini yao- lazima baba/mama yake ahenyeshwe...Sheria za UK zina yang'ata sana makampuni yao ndio maana huyo bwana kakimbilia kwao kuwashitaki kwa kutumia kinga ya whistleblowers-
Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998: Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998
Ujinga walioufanya Tigo sasa utamfanya Lissu kuwa Billionea kwa masihara yao ya kugawa metadata za mtumiaji wa simu ( Lissu- Bila idhini yake). They should have known better.
It’s just common sense, what’s their interest in sharing their customers information if they were not required by law.Chief,are you certain that Tigo Tz gave such info to gavoo involuntarily?
Umeongea mambo mengi sana nitakujibu vizuri kesho.Kama unajua concept ya universal jurisdiction, usingeweza kuandika hapa mambo ya "vicalicious liability"- acha kuchanganya madesa, ndio maana tunapigwa huko nje na habari za mikataba kwa kuchanganya mambo.
Yafaa ujue ni nini maana ya Universal jurisdiction: The principle of universal jurisdiction provides for a state’s jurisdiction over crimes against international law even when the crimes did not occur on that state's territory, and neither the victim nor perpetrator is a national of that state. The principle allows national courts in third countries to address international crimes occurring abroad, to hold perpetrators criminally liable, and to prevent impunity.
Kama mahakama zetu zimeshindwa, kesi hii ya Lissu yaweza kutumia hiyo principle na mambo yakaendelea kama walivyo mfanyia Milocevic na Charles taylor.
Na kuhusu Vicarious liability: is a legal principle that holds one party responsible for the actions of another party. It's often used in the context of employer-employee relationships, but can also apply to other contractual relationships.
Bilateral investment treaty (BIT): Hizi zinasaidia sana katika ku- enforce awards katika ISDS cases- Hakuna hata moja (ya hizi BiT -popote pale duniani humu) inayosema kwamba makampuni ya nje yatakingiwa kifua na serikali za nchi zao kwa kwa kufanya illegal acts- rejea kesi ya Tuna Bond - Msumbiji- ambapo kampuni moja lilikuwa linatoa mikopo kwa serikali na wananchi wanalipa mikopo hiyo, baada tu ya serikali kubadirika , kesi ikaaenda mahakamani huko huko London na kampuni likaamuliwa kuilipa serikali billions, ( Soma hapa: Mozambique wins court claim over corrupt Tuna Bonds - Spotlight on Corruption) Pia Rejea ni kwa nini serikali ya uingereza haikuikingia kifua BAE systens kuhusu yale mambo ya rada wakati Chenge...BAE Systems ilishitakiwa kwa kukiuka sheria na Tanzania ikarudishwa change ya rada, soma hapa: BAE criticised by UK MPs over Tanzania corruption . Kwa maana nyingine faini waliyopigwa ilizidi bei ya ra radar, Tanzania ni kama ilipewa bule hiyo kitu.
Nacho taka kusema nini? kama Tigo amehusika kwa namna yeyote ile - doctrine ya occupiers liability inamuhusu na huyo Tigo- hawezi kuchomoka... parent company ni la UK, mtoto wake yuko Tanzania, kafanya majambozi ya kutapanya data za watu bila idhini yao- lazima baba/mama yake ahenyeshwe...Sheria za UK zina yang'ata sana makampuni yao ndio maana huyo bwana kakimbilia kwao kuwashitaki kwa kutumia kinga ya whistleblowers-
Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998: Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998
Ujinga walioufanya Tigo sasa utamfanya Lissu kuwa Billionea kwa masihara yao ya kugawa metadata za mtumiaji wa simu ( Lissu- Bila idhini yake). They should have known better.
Hapa ndipo mnapo mfurahisha Lissu na mabeberu yaliyo nyuma yake, the gullibility.Kwahiyo serikali ikitaka taarifa za mtu ili auwawe kampuni iliyoapa kuficha faragha za watu inatoa sio? Fatilia FBI walitaka taarifa za muarabu aliyedondosha simu(iphone) na kampuni ya apple iligoma kutoa taarifa na hakuna kitu FBI walifanya fatilia bhana.
Public opinion ni muhimu katikati ya vita.Hakuna anayekataa usemago, ndio serekali inatakiwa kumpiga risasi badala ya kumpeleka mahakamani kama ana makosa? Au hizo sheria za mwaka 70 ndio zinataka mashambulizi ya vile? Kama ni serekali ndio ilifanya hivyo, hiyo kumtaka dereva wa Lisu ni wanini wakati shahidi tigo yupo.
kaka, una practise sheria wapi? Tuanzie hapo. Pataje, kama ni UK, nina walakini sana na uelewa wako kwa mambo yao ya kisheria. achana na mambo ya emotions, achana kabisa na concept ya sovereignty, huwezi uwa watu halafu ukajifiche kwenye hiyo concept ya sovergity, watakudaka tu hata ukiwa Raisi wa nchi, utadakwa tu bila jinsi.Umeongea mambo mengi sana nitakujibu vizuri kesho.
Iła hata sijui hoja zako unatoa wapi, it’s as nchi hazina sovereignty (na sidhani kama unajua Ina maana gani) kama unadhani sheria za nchi husika aziheshimiki duniani na domestic matters hazina local jurisdiction.
Mtu anapotumia ‘vicarious liability’ ujue kamshindwa au aoni sababu ya kumfungulia kesi mtu aliesababisha damage kwa sababu kadhaa; so anaamia kwa wajuu wake kwa sababu yupo responsible na huyo mtu katika utendaji wake wa kazi (most it’s tort) seeking damages rather than contract.
Kwa kifupi ni kwamba umeandika mambo mengi ambayo uelewa wake unapwaya can’t answer all of them kwa sasa.
Hizi nchi zetu uwezi kusoma degree ya kwanza ya biashara bila ya kusoma business law, contract law, employment and tort (generally).kaka, una practise sheria wapi? Tuanzie hapo. Pataje, kama ni UK, nina walakini sana na uelewa wako kwa mambo yao ya kisheria. achana na mambo ya emotions, achana kabisa na concept ya sovereignty, huwezi uwa watu halafu ukajifiche kwenye hiyo concept ya sovergity, watakudaka tu hata ukiwa Raisi wa nchi, utadakwa tu bila jinsi.
Immunity ina apply tu within our Tanzania jurisdiction, lakini ukisha toka mipakani, usije shangaa kuna warrant of arrest ya Rais wetu- under principle ya universal jurisdiction - UJ principle halafu wewe leta hizo principle za sovereignty uone kama wakuu wa dunia watakusikiliza.
Immunity ni zetu wenyewe tulio jiwekea tu na sovereignty hata kama tunayo, hatukuwatuma viongozi wetu tulio wachagua wakafanye uharifu wa aina yeyote ile.
Halafu ukijibu kesho, tafadhari sema pia ufahamu wako wa hiyo kitu inayoitwa UJ- universal jurisdiction inavyo kuwa applied.
Kwa kukusaidia, kumbuka kwamba hiyo kesi ipo hapo London- kwenye employment tribunal. Hii tribunal iko governed na kitu kinajutwa practice direction: soma hapa ujue namna rules of procedures zinavyo fanya kazi: Rules, Orders, Practice Directions and Guidance - Courts and Tribunals Judiciary Kuna kitabu chake pia ukikitaka sema nikutumie.
Acha kuchanganya mambo- stay focused- kesi iko London, hawatumii sheria za bongo- elewa Hilo.Hizi nchi zetu uwezi kusoma degree ya kwanza ya biashara bila ya kusoma business law, contract law, employment and tort (generally).
Ukitaka kuwa mwanasheria specialised kwenye biashara unasoma LLM tu. Baada ya hapo unakuwa specialised solicitor.
Wewe maswala ya sheria yanakupiga chenga kama hata nadharia ya national sovereignty na mantiki ya jurisdiction inakupiga chenga.
Halafu mimi nina diploma ya sheria mwaka mmoja ambayo ina deal na criminal law tu; ambayo ilikuwa inaniruhusu kusoma law at university sema it wasn’t my thing.
That is to say nina strong foundation ya law, ukiona naongelea pia oil and gas law ni kwa sababu nimeandika extensively kwa vilaza ambao walikuwa wanafanya hizo degree (management ya oil and gas) kwa miaka mingi sana.
Niulizie huku kijijini kwetu watakwambia huyo hizo report na essay za hayo mambo anafyatua tu.
Contract law, HR laws na tort nazijua generally. Kama ni specialisation basi ni natural resources najua sana. Huko sio sheria tu na terms za mikataba najua, how the entire value chain operates and how to strategise a plan as a company or a nation.
Nikikwambia Lissu hajui sheria za mikataba, hajui; kama wewe na navyokwambia maswala ya sheria yana kupiga chenga. Unajiandikia tu vitu ambavyo huna nitty gritty knowledge navyo.
Ndio maana nilikwambia kiistarabh hoja yako uiache nikujibu sahihi nikipata muda kabla ya kuleta kejeli.Acha kuchanganya mambo- stay focused- kesi iko London, hawatumii sheria za bongo- elewa Hilo.
Huko London ndilo ninako practice sheria- kwenye law firm kubwa sana- yenye vipanga haswa -ifuatilie hadi mwisho Halafu utajua matokeo yake.
Bora ya ujinga,ataonekana punguani Tena Mpumbavu!Hauna point ya maana zaidi ya kuongea kimihemko alafu inaonekana una chuki sana dhidi ya Lissu,
Kesi haijaanza na haujasikiliza wala kuona ushahidi wa aina yoyotr tayari umeshatoa hukumu kicheani kwako na kushutumu lissu na mwanasheria wake kua hawajui sheria wala mikataba
Wewe kama ni mmoja wa wahusika tulia ulipe gharama za uovu kikombe kitakufikia tu,
Hakuna unachojua cha kumzidi Lissu wanaojua kua anajua kuwazidi kuhusu hiyo mikataba walitaka kumuua wewe kinyamlenge ambae hujawai hata kusimama mahakamani kumtetea hata mwizi wa kuku unakuja hapa kukejeli manguli wa sheria waliokuzidi upeo
Punguza mihemko na ujuaji usio na maana mwisho wa siku utaonekana mjinga
Tusubiri majibu ya hiyo case kwanza halafu ndio turudie league.Ndio maana nilikwambia kiistarabh hoja yako uiache nikujibu sahihi nikipata muda kabla ya kuleta kejeli.
Sasa wengine tuna ego na kejeli ujibiwa kwa kwejeli, ustaarabu ujibiwa kwa ustaarabu, na hoja ujibiwa kwa hoja.
Ungesubiri nijibu hoja zako.
Otherwise wewe kuwa London sijui kwenye law firm gani, mimi sio mtu wa kutishiwa nyau. Uwa najibu hoja sijali mtu yupo wapi au anafanya kazi gani.
Na wewe kwenye hoja husika unapwaya, hint you don’t links in legal arguments; you need principles.
Wewe kama unajua sana give me a couple of hours, I’ll entertain you.
Mind you as yet you are not convincing you understand law as yet.
What step did Tigo take to let their customer (Lissu) know that they were " forcefully being forced" to release data to the authorities? Did they object? did they go to court? what were the safeguarding measures taken by Tigo? Hadi sasa wako kimya kama maji ya mtungini...na nimewaambia ...hivi humo Tigo hakunaga Public communication experts....? Ni nani anawasemeaga... ? Limebumburuka na wao wanasubiri upepo uvume...Nimesoma. But my concern was if Tigo tz gave info access to gavoo by being forced or willingly kama mayor alivocoment. Just that Chief