Suala la Mkaguzi Mkuu wa Hesabu za Serikali (CAG) na Vipengele kadhaa vya Kisheria

Suala la Mkaguzi Mkuu wa Hesabu za Serikali (CAG) na Vipengele kadhaa vya Kisheria

Chige said:
Your interpretation is based on general English use but not a legal definition/interpretation of our own laws! Our INTERPRETATION OF LAWS ACT says:-
Frankly speaking, the word is confusing if there's no legal definition/interpretation, but we have one! It's from this confusion that's why other countries including the United States replace the word SHALL with MUST, but we haven't!

They decided to drop the word SHALL because when the law schools teach SHALL is mandatory, in the common use it's not mandatory!
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No.

Shall, fundamentally, means the same thing across the board.

If it doesn’t, show me where it means something totally different.
 
Kiranga said:
Kwa nini unasema Katiba iko sikent kwenye kumuondoa CAG wakati ime stipulate soecific conditions za CAG kuondolewa, zikiwa ni ugonjwa, umri au impeachment tribunal?

Mbona vioengele viko wazi na vime stipulate very specifically? Kwa maneno yenye ckear logic kama unless.
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Mkuu hiyo impeachment tribunal siyo lazima soma vizuri ibara ya 144 (3) inasema "If the President considers....: Hiyo ibara hamlazimishi kuunda tume. Someni vizuri kwa utulivu.
 
Nyani Ngabu said:
No.

Shall, fundamentally, means the same thing across the board.

If it doesn’t, show me where it means something totally different.
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That's according to your definition... we're talking about legal interpretation here that needs legal references! I have provided you with the Interpretation of Laws Act 53(2)!

Give me yours!
 
magu2016 said:
Umeshasema kuwa wewe ni bush lawyer then sitegemei ukaweza ku interpretate Katiba ya Sheria vizuri. Hii ni professional ya watu mkuu!
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Ulitarajia kwa mtu usielewa kama wewe nikuambie nini?! Hoja ya CAG unaleta Ibara ya Uchaguzi wa Rais... huoni mnapofeli hapo!!
 
Chige said:
That's according to your definition... we're talking about legal interpretation here that needs legal references! I have provided you with the Interpretation of Laws Act 53(2)!

Give me yours!
Click to expand...
Administrative laws interpretation zake ni tofauti mkuu SHALL ina maana ANAWEZA!
 
Nyani Ngabu said:
No.

Shall, fundamentally, means the same thing across the board.

If it doesn’t, show me where it means something totally different.
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Mgogoro wa shall be eligible ni irrelevant kwenye mjadala wa leo wa CAG.

Kwa sababu unaongelea term limits.

Ungekuwa relevant 2024.

Hapa ndipo Magu alipovunja katiba. Sona 144 yote, msisitizo 144 (2) na 144 (3)

144.-(1) Without prejudice to the other provisions of this Article, the
Controller and Auditor-General of the United Republic shall be obliged to vacate
office upon attaining the age of sixty or any other age which shall be prescribed
by a law enacted by Parliament.

Act No.15
of 1984
Art.43
Act No.12
of 1995
Art.19

(2) The Controller and Auditor-General may be removed from office only
for inability to perform the functions of his office (either due to illness or to any
other reason) or for misbehaviour, or for violating the provisions of the law
concerning the ethics of public leaders and shall not be so removed except in
accordance with the provisions of subarticle (4) of this Article.

(3) if the President considers that the question of the removal of the
Controller and Auditor-General from office under the provisions of this Article
needs to be investigated, then the procedure shall be as follows:
(a) the President shall appoint a Special Tribunal which shall consist of
a Chairman and not less than two other members. The Chairman
and at least half of the other members of that Special Tribunal shall
be persons who are or have been Judges of the High Court or of the Court of Appeal in any country within the Commonwealth;
(b) the Special Tribunal shall investigate and submit report to the
President on whole matter and shall advise him whether or not the
Controller and Auditor General should be removed from office in
accordance with the provisions of this Article on the grounds of
inability to perform his functions due to illness or any other reason
or on grounds of misbehaviour.

(4) If the Special Tribunal appointed in accordance with the provisions of
subarticle (3) advises the President that the Controller and Auditor-General be
removed from office on grounds of inability to perform functions of his office due
to illness or any other reason or on grounds of misbehaviour, then the President
shall remove him from office.

(5) If the question of removing the Controller and Auditor-General has
been referred to a Special Tribunal for investigation pursuant to the provisions of
this Article, the President may suspend the Controller and Auditor-General from
office, and the President may at any time rescind the decision to suspend the
Controller and Auditor-General and in any case such decision shall lapse if the
Special Tribunal advises the President that the Controller and Auditor-General be
not removed from office.

(6) A person who holds or who has held the office of Controller and
Auditor-General shall not be appointed to, or act in, any other office in the service
of the Government of the Untied Republic.

(7) The provisions of this Article shall not apply to any person appointed
acting Controller and Auditor-General.
 
Kiranga said:
Kwa nini unasema Katiba iko sikent kwenye kumuondoa CAG wakati ime stipulate soecific conditions za CAG kuondolewa, zikiwa ni ugonjwa, umri au impeachment tribunal?

Mbona vioengele viko wazi na vime stipulate very specifically? Kwa maneno yenye ckear logic kama unless.
Click to expand...
Nilichosema kwenye maelezo yangu ni kuwa katiba ipo silent kwenye tenure of office of CAG.
 
Chige said:
Ulitarajia kwa mtu usielewa kama wewe nikuambie nini?! Hoja ya CAG unaleta Ibara ya Uchaguzi wa Rais... huoni mnapofeli hapo!!
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Naona umeanza kuleta siasa nilifikiri na chat na mtu wa hoja kumbe nyumb... basi umeshinda!
 
magu2016 said:
Ibara hii hamlazimishi Rais kuunda tume soma kwa makini.... inasema If the President considers....!!
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144.

(2) The Controller and Auditor-General may be removed from office only
for inability to perform the functions of his office (either due to illness or to any
other reason) or for misbehaviour, or for violating the provisions of the law
concerning the ethics of public leaders and shall not be so removed except in
accordance with the provisions of subarticle (4) of this Article.
 
Nyani Ngabu said:
Kwa hiyo CAG akishateuliwa haruhusiwi kabisa kuondoka kwenye hiyo nafasi kabla ya kipindi cha miaka mitano? Vipi kama baada ya miaka miwili akaamua kuachia ngazi? Hawezi tu kusema kuwa ‘nimechoka na nimeamua kujiuzulu’ kabla ya miaka mitano kuisha?



So let me get this straight, hapa ni wewe unasadiki, siyo?

Au kuna sehemu umeyatoa haya maelezo?
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Wewe naamini unajua faida za mkataba wa vipindi maalumu maalumu kikazi.Isipokuwa sasa linapokuja suala la CAG kuna factors nyingi inabidi uzikonside.

Kuna vitu unahitaji kubalance kwenye ishu ya mkataba wa kazi wa CAG

Kumpa mtu urahisi wa kuvunja tu mkataba anapojisikia yeye kwa sababu kachoka baada ya miaka miwili siyo productive, ndiyo maana unaweka miaka mingi kidogo wa miaka mitano kwanza ili uweze kuvuna service yake bila kila mara kulazimika kuingia kwenye vetting ndefu na ngumu ya kumtafuta mwingine, lakini at the same time ukizingatia kuwa huyu mtu huenda kweli kachoka na kama akichoka basi nalo pia linasababisha kupungua kwa ufanisi

Lakini pia kumlazimisha mtu aliyechoka anayetaka kupumzika aendelee na miaka mingine mitano nayo siyo productive, hautapata best of him kwa hiyo ni hekima kumpa miaka mitano ya yeye kujifikiria kuwa yuko ready kuendelea au la.

IT IS ALL ABOUT MITIGATING AND BALANCING THINGS UP. It is not a perfect model but kuna hekima ndani yake kuliko kumpa mtu limkataba vuuup la miaka yote 10 once!

Kwa nini hiyo process hakuachiwa mwenye kuteua ateue anavyotaka baada ya hiyo miaka mitano ya mwanzo? , ni kwa sababu itamfanya CAG kwenye miaka yake mitano ya kwanza afanye kazi kwa uoga, na pengine kumfurahisha mteuzi ili afikiriwefikiriwe kwenye term ya pili
 
Chige said:
That's according to your definition... we're talking about legal interpretation here that needs legal references! I have provided you with the Interpretation of Laws Act 53(2)!

Give me yours!
Click to expand...

Do you know what fundamentally means?
 
stroke said:
Nilichosema kwenye maelezo yangu ni kuwa katiba ipo silent kwenye tenure of office of CAG.
Click to expand...
Katiba haipo sikent katika removal of CAG.

(2) The Controller and Auditor-General may be removed from office only
for inability to perform the functions of his office (either due to illness or to any
other reason) or for misbehaviour, or for violating the provisions of the law
concerning the ethics of public leaders and shall not be so removed except in
accordance with the provisions of subarticle (4) of this Article.
 
Missile of the Nation said:
Wewe unajua faida za mkataba wa vipindi maalumu maalumu kikazi.Isipokuwa sasa kwa CAG kuna factors nyingi inabidi uzikonside.

Kumpa mtu urahisi wa kuvunja tu mkataba anapojisikia yeye kwa sababu kachoka baada ya miaka miwili siyo productive ndiyo maana unaweka miaka mingi kidogo ili uweze kuvuna service yake bila kila mara kulazimika kuingia kwenye vetting ndefu na ngumu ya kumtafuta mwingine

Lakini pia kumlazimisha mtu aliyechoka anayetaka kupumzika nayo siyo productive, hautapata best of him kwa hiyo ni hekima kumpa miaka mitano ya yeye kujifikiria kuwa yuko ready kuendelea au la.

Kwa nini hiyo process hakuachiwa mwenye kuteua ateue anavyotaka baada ya hiyo miaka mitano ya mwanzo? , ni kwa sababu itamfanya CAG kwenye miaka yake mitano ya kwanza afanye kazi kwa uoga, na pengine kumfurahisha mteuzi ili afikiriwefikiriwe kwenye term ya pili
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Unataka kusema kwmba kutokana na performance yake kulikuwa na expectations of renewal?
 
Kiranga said:
144.

(2) The Controller and Auditor-General may be removed from office only
for inability to perform the functions of his office (either due to illness or to any
other reason) or for misbehaviour, or for violating the provisions of the law
concerning the ethics of public leaders and shall not be so removed except in
accordance with the provisions of subarticle (4) of this Article.
Click to expand...
Mkuu hiyo subarticle bado ina refer kama.tume imeundwa kwa mujibu wa subarticle 3..
 
magu2016 said:
Ibara hii hamlazimishi Rais kuunda tume soma kwa makini.... inasema If the President considers....!!
Click to expand...
Ona sasa... hivi nyie watu mmesomea wapi?! Hilo neno "If the President considers" tafsiri yake ni kwamba, CAG na Majaji hawawezi kutumbuliwa hovyo hovyo kama wanavyotumbuliwa wengine. Lakini pale Rais anapotaka kufanya hivyo, ndipo Katiba inamtaka aunde Tume ya Kijaji kuchunguza tuhuma zinazomfanya Rais atake kumwachisha kazi CAG au Jaji!

Kinyume chake (kinyume na sheria), Rais anaweza kumlazimisha Jaji/CAG kujihudhuru lakini CAG/Jaji anaweza kugoma, na hapo Rais hatakuwa na namna zaidi ya kuunda hiyo tume kama anaamini alichofanya CAG/Jaji kinastahili kufukuzwa kazi kwa mujibu wa katiba!!
 
Kiranga said:
Katiba haipo sikent katika removal of CAG.

(2) The Controller and Auditor-General may be removed from office only
for inability to perform the functions of his office (either due to illness or to any
other reason) or for misbehaviour, or for violating the provisions of the law
concerning the ethics of public leaders and shall not be so removed except in
accordance with the provisions of subarticle (4) of this Article.
Click to expand...
Haha mkuu unachanganya mambo hapa, kuna tofauti kati ya tenure of office na removal from office.

Katiba ipo silent kwa tenure of office.
 
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