Mkataba (MoU) kati ya Serikali na Kanisa Katoliki na Taasisi nyingine za Kidini

[MaxShimba]

why with serikali ya Ujerumani?

Nawashauri mjifunze kusoma. It will help you guys.

 

[Ogah]

Nawashauri mjifunze kusoma. It will help you guys.

weye uliyesoma tuelimishe basi

 

[Tumain]

Tumain,

..kilichotakiwa kufanyika ni Bakwata,Balukta,Shura ya Maimamu,Bohora,Baniani etc etc kuandaa MOU na serikali.

..inawezekana taasisi hizo zimeona hazihitaji MOU ili kupata msaada na ushirikiano toka serikalini.

..ninavyoelewa mimi serikali imekuwa ikitoa ushirikiano kwa taasisi za madhehebu yote ya kidini bila kubagua. kwa mfano: serikali imetoa majengo ya Tanesco kuwa Chuo Kikuu cha Waislamu, serikali imesaidia mahujaji kwenda hijja baada ya kukwamishwa na ATC, viongozi wakuu wameshiriki fundraising zilizoandaliwa na madhehebu ya Kiislamu, etc etc

..sidhani kama MOU hii inayaweka madhehebu ya kikristo karibu zaidi na serikali kuliko hayo madhehebu mengine.

..kama nilivyokuelekeza hapo juu, serikali imekuwa ikitoa misaada kwa taasisi za Kiislamu, na inaendelea kufanya hivyo. tena majuzi Waziri Mkuu Lowassa, Mkuu wa Majeshi Gen.Mwamunyange alishiriki fundraising kwa ajili ya shule inayodhaminiwa na Mufti Shaaban Simba. je, itakuwa haki kuituhumu serikali na viongozi wakuu kusaidia kueneza Uislamu?

NB:

..binafsi nadhani muda mwingi unatumika kulalamika kuliko kushughulikia matatizo.

..hivi muda mliotumia ku-post hapa si unatosha kubisa kukaa pamoja mkaandaa MOU ya taasisi za Kiislamu na mkaiwasilisha serikalini?

Ndugu, unachotaka kufanya ni mashindano fulani kwamba wakristo na waislamu waanze kuwindani kwakuwa wakristo wameingia mkataba na serikali na waislamu nao wanaandaa wanaingia ...and so on..hiyo hatari yake ni kwamba wafanyakazi serikalini wanakuwa so ancient kuangalia leo dini yao wameingia deal gani na serikali ili wawaambie wenzao hii ni hatari sana.
Mawazo yangu ni kwamba yeyote aliyeandaa mpango huu ni MDINI na hatari sana...japo wazo lako siyo mbaya ila siyo precedent nzuri kufanyia kazi inaonyesha jinsi viongozi wetu wanavyofikiria dini zao kuliko watanzania wote??? ilichotakiwa kufanyika ni kuacha MoU kuwa open to all religious groups (after all) aliyeanzisha angepata share yake then wengine inakuwa ruhusu kutumia mktaba huohuo kama anatoa service zilezili I mean shule, hospitali and so on...
Kuna tofauti kubwa sana kati ya fund raising na MoU ndugu usiwe "mpofu" wa akili. fund raisinig na kuchangia maendeleo ya dini fulani imefanywa sana serikali na viongozi wetu kwa dini zote lakini zaidi kwa wakristo nina data hapa ukiangalia Kikwete na Pinda fund raisinig wazlizofanya kwa shughuli za kanisa 90% christians 10% muslims lakini hiyo siyo hoja Islam does need that ...tunachokataa ni upendeleo tu we don't favour as oppose to christians who need goverment favour
Tanesco ndiyo pekee utakyoleta kuhusu waislamu kusaidia na serikali hakuna nyingine je umeshafanya hesabu za pesa zilizopelekwa kanisani kutoka serikalini inaweza kutengeneza tanesco ngapi??? isitosha shule zote serikali zilizorudishwa mikononi mwa kanisa wakati za waislamu not yet mfano (mazengo sec) ....let stop this nonsense every muslims knows this.

 

[MaxShimba]

weye uliyesoma tuelimishe basi

It is not my work to educate muhammadans. Copy hiyo memo peleka kwa shehe mkuu wako akuelezee inavyo sema. Kama na yeye amekua madrasized, peleka kwa mwalimu wako wa darasa la kwanza.

 

[Ogah]

It is not my work to educate muhammadans. Copy hiyo memo peleka kwa shehe mkuu wako akuelezee inavyo sema. Kama na yeye amekua madrasized, peleka kwa mwalimu wako wa darasa la kwanza.

Max.......this is just a forum.......wakati mwingine watu huenda zaidi na kueleimisha.........sasa weye uliye mfuasi wa Yesu....sijui ni mfano gani wajaribu kuuonyesha.......Yesu hakufundisha kuwaacha wale walio na njaa.......in this case njaa ya kutaka kujua...........Yesu alikuja kwa waliopotea....au vipi.......kama mimi nimepotea......basi hapo ndio unanipoteza zaidi.........hebu iga kidogo mifano ya Yesu aisee

 

[X-PASTER]

Pumba tupu umeweka.

Ndio mana tunasema wafu siku zote wataendelea kuzika wafu wenzao!

 

[X-PASTER]

Max.......this is just a forum.......wakati mwingine watu huenda zaidi na kueleimisha.........sasa weye uliye mfuasi wa Yesu....sijui ni mfano gani wajaribu kuuonyesha.......Yesu hakufundisha kuwaacha wale walio na njaa.......in this case njaa ya kutaka kujua...........Yesu alikuja kwa waliopotea....au vipi.......kama mimi nimepotea......basi hapo ndio unanipoteza zaidi.........hebu iga kidogo mifano ya Yesu aisee

Hivi Ogah unategemea mtu aliye potea kuja kukuelekeza njia!?

Wewe ushangai jinsi jazba na povu linavyo watoka kiasi hata ile busara ndogo walizo kuwa nazo zinawakimbia?

 

[MaxShimba]

Max.......this is just a forum.......wakati mwingine watu huenda zaidi na kueleimisha.........sasa weye uliye mfuasi wa Yesu....sijui ni mfano gani wajaribu kuuonyesha.......Yesu hakufundisha kuwaacha wale walio na njaa.......in this case njaa ya kutaka kujua...........Yesu alikuja kwa waliopotea....au vipi.......kama mimi nimepotea......basi hapo ndio unanipoteza zaidi.........hebu iga kidogo mifano ya Yesu aisee

Sasa unataka injili, eeh. Memo of understanding siyo elimu bana, ndio maana nikasema kama hujuwi kidhunghu kamuulize shehe mkuu bana. Au na shehe wenu hajuwi kidhunghu?

 

[JokaKuu]

Ndugu, unachotaka kufanya ni mashindano fulani kwamba wakristo na waislamu waanze kuwindani kwakuwa wakristo wameingia mkataba na serikali na waislamu nao wanaandaa wanaingia ...and so on..hiyo hatari yake ni kwamba wafanyakazi serikalini wanakuwa so ancient kuangalia leo dini yao wameingia deal gani na serikali ili wawaambie wenzao hii ni hatari sana.
Mawazo yangu ni kwamba yeyote aliyeandaa mpango huu ni MDINI na hatari sana...japo wazo lako siyo mbaya ila siyo precedent nzuri kufanyia kazi inaonyesha jinsi viongozi wetu wanavyofikiria dini zao kuliko watanzania wote??? ilichotakiwa kufanyika ni kuacha MoU kuwa open to all religious groups (after all) aliyeanzisha angepata share yake then wengine inakuwa ruhusu kutumia mktaba huohuo kama anatoa service zilezili I mean shule, hospitali and so on...
Kuna tofauti kubwa sana kati ya fund raising na MoU ndugu usiwe "mpofu" wa akili. fund raisinig na kuchangia maendeleo ya dini fulani imefanywa sana serikali na viongozi wetu kwa dini zote lakini zaidi kwa wakristo nina data hapa ukiangalia Kikwete na Pinda fund raisinig wazlizofanya kwa shughuli za kanisa 90% christians 10% muslims lakini hiyo siyo hoja Islam does need that ...tunachokataa ni upendeleo tu we don't favour as oppose to christians who need goverment favour
Tanesco ndiyo pekee utakyoleta kuhusu waislamu kusaidia na serikali hakuna nyingine je umeshafanya hesabu za pesa zilizopelekwa kanisani kutoka serikalini inaweza kutengeneza tanesco ngapi??? isitosha shule zote serikali zilizorudishwa mikononi mwa kanisa wakati za waislamu not yet mfano (mazengo sec) ....let stop this nonsense every muslims knows this.

Tumain,

..viongozi unaowalaumu kwa kuangalia maslahi ya dini zao tu ni wepi hao?

..MOU hii imesainiwa baina ya serikali iliyokuwa ikiongozwa na Raisi Muislamu na taasisi za Kikristo.

..wazo lako kwamba MOU hiyo iwe open kwa dini zote ni zuri tu. sasa kinachowazuia Waislamu kupeleka ombi hilo serikalini ni nini?

..naendelea kusisitiza kwamba bila hata ya MOU serikali imekuwa ikisaidia madhehebu yote ya dini bila upendeleo.

..binafsi sidhani kama Kikwete au Pinda wanaweza kuitwa kwenye fund raising za Waislamu/Wakristo wakakataa mwaliko. kama kuna tofauti wameshiriki ngapi ni kutokana na tofauti ya idadi ya fundraising kati ya madhehebu haya mawili.

..ninavyoelewa mimi Wakristo walipoteza shule nyingi zaidi kuliko Waislamu kutokana na zoezi la utaifishaji.

NB:

..Shule ya Mazengo ilikuwa shule ya Kanisa[ikiitwa Alliance] na sasa hivi imerudishwa kwa Waanglikana.

 

[MaxShimba]

Hivi Ogah unategemea mtu aliye potea kuja kukuelekeza njia!?

Wewe ushangai jinsi jazba na povu linavyo watoka kiasi hata ile busara ndogo walizo kuwa nazo zinawakimbia?

Astaghafulahi,

 

[Ogah]

Sasa unataka injili, eeh. Memo of understanding siyo elimu bana, ndio maana nikasema kama hujuwi kidhunghu kamuulize shehe mkuu bana. Au na shehe wenu hajuwi kidhunghu?

This is what we call "PUMBA".......kwa sababu unaongowa na jazba...naona "Roho wako Mtakatifu" katimka leo......kwi kwi kwi

 

[MaxShimba]

This is what call "PUMBA".......kwa sababu unaongowa na jazba...naona "Roho wako Mtakatifu" katimka leo......kwi kwi kwi

Sema ni paragraph gani huelewi katika hiyo memo of understanding?

 

[Ogah]

Sema ni paragraph gani huelewi katika hiyo memo of understanding?

.........now you are talking.....Part Four (Obligations)...Article XIII

 

[X-PASTER]

sometimes some people are very funny!

 

[MaxShimba]

Paragraph 4 clearly states that the Gov shall endeavour to include financial assistance to Church run social services in its bilateral negotiations.

The above paragraph is not a guarantee of the financial assistance, it is only when two sides came to certain mutual understanding then the Gov will/may give funds where comes necessary, inter-alia, said paragrah does not say that the Gov is the sole donor and/or underwriter.

.........now you are talking.....Part Four (Obligations)...Article XIII

You got it. Do you see how blind are you. Nilisha weka maeleza ya hiyo. lol

 

[Ogah]

You got it. Do you see how blind are you. Nilisha weka maeleza ya hiyo. lol

Paragraph 4 clearly states that the Gov shall endeavour to include financial assistance to Church run social services in its bilateral negotiations.

The above paragraph is not a guarantee of the financial assistance, it is only when two sides came to certain mutual understanding then the Gov will/may give funds where comes necessary, inter-alia, said paragrah does not say that the Gov is the sole donor and/or underwriter.

Hivi kuna sehemu mtu kasema Govt of tanzania ni sole donor?

wewe uliyesoma vizuri "Kidhungu" kama ulivyoandika hapo awali hili neno "shall" lina maana gani........?....how do you translate it kwenye hiyo article?

pili....umetumia neno Will/may........hebu fafanua ni wakati gani itakuwa "Will" na wakat gani itakuwa "May"......and after all wewe unayejua "Kidhugu".....hayo maneno yanawekwa pamoja kama ulivyoweka wewe?.....ofcourse notwithstanding your words........where comes necessary...............

naomba nielimishe miye........ambaye kwamba nina elimu ya madrass

 

[X-PASTER]

Hivi kuna sehemu mtu kasema Govt of tanzania ni sole donor?

wewe uliyesoma vizuri "Kidhungu" kama ulivyoandika hapo awali hili neno "shall" lina maana gani........?....how do you translate it kwenye hiyo article?

pili....umetumia neno Will/may........hebu fafanua ni wakati gani itakuwa "Will" na wakat gani itakuwa "May"......and after all wewe unayejua "Kidhugu".....hayo maneno yanawekwa pamoja kama ulivyoweka wewe?.....ofcourse notwithstanding your words........where comes necessary...............

naomba nielimishe miye........ambaye kwamba nina elimu ya madrass

Bro Ogah...! Unajuwa kuwa unamshika pabaya mwedhio, Kidhungu icho ...Oh!

 

[MaxShimba]

Hivi kuna sehemu mtu kasema Govt of tanzania ni sole donor?

wewe uliyesoma vizuri "Kidhungu" kama ulivyoandika hapo awali hili neno "shall" lina maana gani........?....how do you translate it kwenye hiyo article?

pili....umetumia neno Will/may........hebu fafanua ni wakati gani itakuwa "Will" na wakat gani itakuwa "May"......and after all wewe unayejua "Kidhugu".....hayo maneno yanawekwa pamoja kama ulivyoweka wewe?.....ofcourse notwithstanding your words........where comes necessary...............

naomba nielimishe miye........ambaye kwamba nina elimu ya madrass

Bilateral negotiations . What are they negotiating? How many percent does a Gov of Tz will donor? What is a donor? When do someone becomes a donor?

There is no place is that paragraph that binds the Gov of Tz to be a donor. The Gov may or may not. That is why they used a word negotiations.

 

[Game Theory]

Federer naye kashinda

 

[Ogah]

Bilateral negotiations . What are they negotiating? How many percent does a Gov of Tz will donor? What is a donor? When do someone becomes a donor?

There is no place is that paragraph that binds the Gov of Tz to be a donor. The Gov may or may not. That is whay they used a word negotiations.

Pamoja na kukwepa kujibu maswali yangu....si neno sana.....anyway tuendelee unavyotaka wewe.....unayejua "Kidhungu"

..........Labda uniambie hiyo MoU is between...."HEWA"........kwenye MoU kunakuwepo na sides.........na unachosema Bilateral negotiation is nothing less.....bali ni maelewano yanayofuata a leading "silabi".......bi......upo hapo Mkuu wangu........sasa wewe unayejua "Kidhungu".....nafikri unaelewa zaidi maana ya "bi..."

nilitegemea wewe unayejua "Kidhungu"....ungenielimisha matumizi ya neno "Shall"......halfu ndio useme............

There is no place is that paragraph that binds the Gov of Tz to be a donor. The Gov may or may not. That is whay they used a word negotiations.

Check tena hiyo article na uone neno "shall"........ unielimishe lina maana gani.........