Tafadhali usirudie tena kuwaombea wafu. It's a waste of time

Rafiki, kwanza hongera sana kwa kuandika comment yako kisomi. Hiyo seminari yako naona ina walimu wazuri wa communication. Wape maua yao.
Haya, turudi kwenye mada. Andiko ulilonukuu la 2 Timotheo 1:16, 18 halisemi kwamba Onesiforo alikuwa amekufa. Na wewe mwenyewe umekiri kwamba mapokeo ya Kikristo ya kale ndiyo yanayoonesha kwamba Onesiforo alikuwa ameshafariki wakati huo. Sasa tumfuate Kristo au tufuate mapokeo? Hatupaswi kufuata mapokeo. Angalia hapa jinsi Paulo anavyoonya kuhusu mapokeo:
Wakolosai 2:8
Angalieni, basi, mtu asiwapotoshe kwa udanganyifu mtupu wa hekima ya kibinadamu, ambayo chanzo chake ni mafundisho ya mapokeo ya watu... na wala si Kristo mwenyewe!

Sasa tukimfuata Yesu Kristo, tutazingatia sana yale aliyoyasema kuhusu Tajiri na Lazaro (Luka 16:19-31).
Angalia mstari wa 26, Ibrahimu anamwambia yule tajiri aliyekuwa kwenye mateso:
"Na zaidi ya hayo yote, kati yetu sisi na ninyi kuna bonde kubwa, ili wale wanaotaka kutoka huku kwenda kwenu wasiweze, wala watu wa kwenu wasivuke kuja kwetu."
Mstari huu unaonesha kuwa mara baada ya kifo, hatima ya mtu aliye peponi na aliye kuzimu inakuwa imefungwa kabisa. Hakuna "daraja" au nafasi ya kuhama kutoka upande mmoja kwenda mwingine. Kwa msingi huo, maombi ya walio hai hayawezi kumvusha mtu kutoka upande wa mateso kwenda upande wa faraja.

Kumbuka tena, maombi ya tajiri hayakujibiwa. Tajiri akiwa kuzimu aliomba msaada mara mbili: kwanza aletewe tone la maji (mstari wa 24) na pili akaomba Lazaro atumwe duniani kuwaonya ndugu zake (mstari wa 27). Maombi yake yote mawili yalikataliwa. Kwa mantiki hiyo kwakuwa maombi yanayofanywa na watu waliopo kuzimu hayajibiwi, basi ni dhahiri hata walio hai wakiwaombea wafu, maombi yao hayajibiwi.

Wakati tajiri alipoomba ndugu zake walioko duniani wasaidiwe ili wasiende kule matesoni, Ibrahimu alimjibu: "Wanao Musa na manabii; na wawasikie hao" (mstari wa 29). Jibu hilo linasisitiza kuwa fursa pekee ya mtu kubadili hatima yake ipo duniani wakati akiwa hai kwa kutii Neno la Mungu (Musa na manabii). Mtu akishakufa, fursa hiyo inatoweka kabisa, hivyo hakuna msaada wowote wa kidini (iwe sala au sadaka) unaoweza kufanywa na ndugu waliopo duniani utakaobadili hatima yake.
 
If you don't know the tradition of praying for the dead just keep quiet or ask to be enlightened. But you cannot say it's a waste of time. Of course, it's a waste of time to you, but not to me and to others who pray for the dead.
 
Kuna mamb
Haya mambo mtahangaika nayo, lakini hayatawasaidia hata kidogo. Maoni ya mtu hayawezi kuwa basis ya argument ya kulikosoa Kanisa Katoliki.
 
Magobe T said:
If you don't know the tradition of praying for the dead just keep quiet or ask to be enlightened. But you cannot say it's a waste of time. Of course, it's a waste of time to you, but not to me and to others who pray for the dead.
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Mkuu, I appreciate your perspective, and I certainly have no intention of dismissing anyone's convictions. However, theological claims should not be sustained merely by personal preference, inherited tradition, or subjective experience. They must withstand the scrutiny of Scripture.

My position is not that praying for the dead is ineffective simply because I personally do not practise it. Rather, I am challenging the biblical legitimacy of the practice itself. The pertinent question, therefore, is not whether you or others find it meaningful, but whether Scripture provides a sound doctrinal basis for it.

If you possess compelling biblical evidence demonstrating that prayers offered on behalf of the deceased can alter their eternal destiny or spiritual condition, I would genuinely welcome the opportunity to examine it. An appeal to personal conviction, however sincerely held, cannot substitute for scriptural substantiation.

Respectfully, theological disagreement should be settled through sound biblical examination, not through attempts to silence those who hold a contrary interpretation.
 
Mawazo yako na Elimu yako ya Biblia ipo juu ila Jaribu kuiinterpret kwa undani zaidi na Tafakari maana connotatively…hatulumbani ila itafaa kwamba Imani yako iheshimiwe na za wengine pia ziheshimiwe🙏
 
Magobe T said:
Kuna mamb

o mtahangaika nayo, lakini hayatawasaidia. Maoni ya mtu hayawezi kuwa basis ya argument ya kylikosoa Kanisa Katoliki.
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Ni watawa na makasisi wangapi walisema? Hans Küng, Girolamo Savolanora, kina Malachi Martin, kina Jan Hus kina Martin Luther nandiyo walikuwa watu wenye uelewa mkubwa kabisa na kanisa na wanajua kila kitu ushauri wangu mfatilie sana Hans Küng utanielewa maana yangu ni hivi kila taasisi ina changamoto zake.

Angalizo sikuandika hayo kulikosoa kanisa lolote nimempa huyo mkuu hapo ushauri wao wanajifanya biblia wanaijua sana kuliko hata waliofanya ikawafikia kwasababu bila kanisa katoliki isingekuwa hapo ilipo.

Kwasababu hizo Aprocypha books wakati wa Baraza ndiyo vilitengwa.
 
Magobe T said:
If you don't know the tradition of praying for the dead just keep quiet or ask to be enlightened. But you cannot say it's a waste of time. Of course, it's a waste of time to you, but not to me and to others who pray for the dead.
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Wahenga walisema "tusiandikie mate wakati wino upo." Mleta mada ametoa vifungu vinavyothibitisha kwamba maombi ya wafu ni kupoteza muda. Sasa ingefaa wanaoombea wafu na wao waje na ushahidi unaothibitisha pasina shaka kwamba maombi yao yanajibiwa. Kwa maneno mengine, waeleze kwamba walimuombea fulani aliyefariki kisha akaenda kuzimu lakini baada ya maombi yao, huyo fulani akatolewa kuzimu akapelekwa peponi. Ushahidi huo ukitolewa utafunga kabisa mjadala huu.
 

2 Timothy 1:16–18.

The Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains; but when he arrived in Rome, he sought me out very zealously and found me. The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day—and you know very well how many ways he ministered to me at Ephesus."
 
Setfree said:
Kinasemaje hicho kitabu. Biblia yangu haina hicho kitabu. Hakikubaliki
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Hakikubaliki kwa vigezo gani? Wakristo wamekuwa wakifanya hivyo miaka yote na vitabu hivyo vipo zaidi ya miaka 1517. Luther ndio aliviondoa kwa uamuzi wake.
 
Duh, hoja yako ina uzito.
 
Kwa Hiyo Na Roho Za Wadudu,,Wanyama Mbalimbali,,Tunaowala,,Wanaoliwa Nazo Naamini Zitakuwepo Hiyo Siku Ya Ufufuo Unaosema....​
 
Haya mapepo mnayojivunia kuyafukuza kwa kupiga makelele hovyo usiku kucha huku mkifungulia na muziki kwa sauti ya juu, yana tija gani kwa majirani wasio husika nayo?
 
Kuwaombea ni kitu chema sana. Wewe tuache sisi tufanye hivyo nawe usifanye. Hakuna shida
 
Leo Ntaongea kidogo ila kama utataka tuelewwshane kwa kirefu karibu sana.

Kwanza imani ya Wakatolini ni kuwa tuna Waamini wa namna 3,1.wasafiri -yaani sisi tuliopo Duniani hatujafika lolote laweza kutukuta kukafika safari salama au kinyume chake.
2.Waamini waliopo Toharani -yaani waliokufa wakiwa na Dhambi ndogo au nyepesi hivyo mbinguni hawawezi kwenda moja kwa moja mapaka wapitie mahali kama gereza kwa kulipia na baada ya mateso hayo nao watakuwa sehemu ya Watakatifu.
3.Mwisho ni Motoni yaani Jehanamu au ziwa la Moto.-Hawa waamini welipo sehemu hii hawawezi kutoka kweli kama ulivyo sema ata ufanyeje ni wale waliokufa na Dhambi kubwa au ya mauti.
Hivyo wakatoliki wanaombea kundi hili la pili tu na si vinginevyo.

Nikutafakarishe kwanza ukitaka ushahidi wa maandika tutakwenda bila shida.na ntakupa nuu za kila nulipo zungumzia.
Tafakari sasa>
-Mtu asili ni Roho ,sisi ni roho na Hata siku ya mwisho tutafanana na muumba wetu.
-Bibilia inaturuhusu kuombeana sisi kwa sisi.
-Biblia ilikuwa na vitabu 72 kabla ya Martini Luta kuvipunguza,na siyo 72 tu vilikuwa vingi sana kuna sababu kwanini hivi 72/73.
-Kuzimu haipo tena soma vizuri biblia na fafanua pia maana ya kuzimu Yesu alishaifunga.
-Watakatifu wako wapi na wanafanya nini?

Tafakari alafu njoo hapa sasa tuanze mojamoja kujibu maswali yako ata mengine unayojiuliza
 
Mchungaji usiingilie imani za kikatoliki, wakatoliki wana ibada za kuombea wafu, Usilete uoni wako wa kisiasa humu, we ni mtumishi wa kisiasa acha watu wafanye ibada zao
 
makoye sr said:
Wakatoliki ndo wenye ibada za namna hiyo kumbe ni kupoteza muda kwa mujibu wa bible basi ni heri kushika majembe wakalime kuliko kupoteza muda
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Hakuna Kanisa linaloijua Biblia kulizidi Kanisa Katoliki ambalo ndilo lililoitunza Biblia, maandiko mengi matakatifu, kumbukumbu ya vitu mbalimbali na historia yote ya mapokeo ya ukristo, na ndiyo taasisi ambayo ni the most conservative, lisilobadilika kutokana na nyakati. Toka kale kale, tangu nyakati za Musa, Yakobo, mpaka nyakati za mitume, marehemu waliombewa. Anayeombwa ni Mungu siyo marehemu. Matukio mengine ya matokeo ya Mama bikira Maria, yanathibitisha umuhimu wa kuwaombea marehemu. Mt. Sister Fausta alitokewa na Yesu mara 12, na wakati wote alipewa jumbe mbalimbali. Mt. Lucia wa Fatima alitokewa mfululizo katika kipindi cha miezi 6. Alifundishwa sala mbalimbali, na mojawapo ilikuwa ya kuwaaombea marehemu, na akaambiwa kuwa sala hiyo inaposaliwa mara moja, roho 1,000 zilizopo toharani zinapata msamaha wa dhambi.

Kama hutaki kuwaombea kuwaombea marehemu, acha, lakini usiwafundishe wanaokuzidi uelewa wa neno la Mungu. Matukio yote ya miujiza mikubwa ya Kristo iliyothibitika kisayansi imepatikana kupitia hao wakatoliki unaowadhihaki. Ufahamu kuwa wakatoliki hawafanyi chochote ambacho hakina msingi wa kiimani wa mapokeo toka kwa mababa wa imani. Ndiyo maana wakatoliki hawahangaiki kubishana na yeyote kwa sababu wana uhakika na kile wanachokifanya.
Fuatilia tukio la yule aliyefunga na kuomba ili Mungu amwongeze apate kujua dhehebu gani ndiyo lililo sahihi. Alipotokewa na muujiza, akaambiwa, 'siku ile hutaulizwa ulikuwa dhehebu gani, bali utaulizwa ulifanya nini kwaajili ya jirani yako. Lakini wana heri zaidi wakatoliki kwa sababu nimewajalia sakramenti nyingi".
Cha muhimu ufahamu kuwa hakuna dhambi ya kumwomba Mungu. Wanaomwomba, waache wamwombe, Mungu ndiye mwenye maumuzi, wewe mwanadamu inakuhusu nini?
 
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