Napinga hoja ya kuwaombea wafu, maombi hayo hayafanyiwi kazi

[econonist]

Hello!

Naomba nieleweke wazi kuwa, mimi binafsi nalaani vikali kitendo cha kuua watu Kwa risasi za moto Kwa sababu za kijinga kwamba unalinda mali za unaowaua,ambapo ilikuwa inawezekana kuzuia hayo yasitokee Kwa kusikiliza hoja zao na kuzifanyia kazi.

Sasa twende kwenye mada, wafu hawaombewi, kuombea wafu ni ibada ya shetani Kwa sababu Mungu ni Mungu wa walio hai na si wa wafu, hivyo usiende kuombea wafu.

Ikitokea umehudhuria ibada hiyo, badili maombi, wewe omba mwenyezi Mungu airehemu Tanzania, asikie sauti ya damu iliyomwagika bila hatia na kulipa kisasi Kwa wahusika Kwa maana imeandikwa, auaye Kwa upanga, naye atauwawa Kwa huo.

Ikumbukwe pia kuwa kanisa Hilo Lina mtandao mpana wenye matawi mengi kuliko chama tawala hivyo maombi haya yatajibiwa haraka ikiwa wataomba Kwa usahihi.

Aamen

Punguza kiherehere

 

[Footstep]

😅😅Toka hapa eti Yesu ni Mungu

Kukataa Uungu wa Yesu ndio ukafiri wenyewe

 

[Tanganian]

Kukataa Uungu wa Yesu ndio ukafiri wenyewe

Makafiri mnajijua😅😅

 

[Footstep]

Makafiri mnajijua😅😅

Zamani wakati wa mitume "makafiri walitambulika kama watu wa mataifa,au wasioamini,

Kipindi hicho uislamu haupo

 

[Tanganian]

Zamani wakati wa mitume "makafiri walitambulika kama watu wa mataifa,au wasioamini,

Kipindi hicho uislamu haupo

Nikisema kafir mnajijua😅😅

 

[Footstep]

Nikisema kafir mnajijua😅😅

Basi jikite kwenye mada ndugu "kafir

 

[Daudi1]

Katiba hairuhusu kumwabudu shetani bali Mungu.

Hilo liko wazi.

Weka kifungu acha kuongea uongo, kwani katiba inamtambua shetani?

 

[Kiranga]

Hello!

Naomba nieleweke wazi kuwa, mimi binafsi nalaani vikali kitendo cha kuua watu Kwa risasi za moto Kwa sababu za kijinga kwamba unalinda mali za unaowaua,ambapo ilikuwa inawezekana kuzuia hayo yasitokee Kwa kusikiliza hoja zao na kuzifanyia kazi.

Sasa twende kwenye mada, wafu hawaombewi, kuombea wafu ni ibada ya shetani Kwa sababu Mungu ni Mungu wa walio hai na si wa wafu, hivyo usiende kuombea wafu.

Ikitokea umehudhuria ibada hiyo, badili maombi, wewe omba mwenyezi Mungu airehemu Tanzania, asikie sauti ya damu iliyomwagika bila hatia na kulipa kisasi Kwa wahusika Kwa maana imeandikwa, auaye Kwa upanga, naye atauwawa Kwa huo.

Ikumbukwe pia kuwa kanisa Hilo Lina mtandao mpana wenye matawi mengi kuliko chama tawala hivyo maombi haya yatajibiwa haraka ikiwa wataomba Kwa usahihi.

Aamen

Hakuna Mungu wala Shetani.

Ndiyo maana hata wewe huwezi kuthibigmtisha kuwapo kwa Mungu wala Shetani.

Yale maombi huwa yanafanywa na watu wanaoishi, kwa kujifariji wao wanaoishi, wala si kwa ajili ya waliofariki.

Sasa, ukishaelewa hilo, bado utataka kuwanyima wale wanaoishi nafasi yao ya kujifafiji katika dini yao na imani yao waliyochagua wenyewe?

 

[Tanganian]

Basi jikite kwenye mada ndugu "kafir

Sijakuita!

 

[Footstep]

Hakuna Mungu wala Shetani.

Ndiyo maananhata wewe huwezi kuthibigisha kuwapo kwa Mungu wala Shetani.

Yale maombi huwa yanafanywa na watu wanaoishi, kwa kujifariji wao wanaoishi, wala si kwa ajili ya waliofariki.

Sasa, ukishaelewa hilo, bado utataka kuwanyima wale wanaoishi nafasi yao ya kujifafiji katika dini yao na imani yao waliyochagua wenyewe?

Wametangaza wanaoombea wafu,

Hawajasema wanajifariji, usiwawekee maneno yako,

Kuhusu uwepo wa Mungu la kikatiba Hilo, Anatambulika Mungu

 

[tpaul]

kumbe yule fala tpaul aje ..Kama fala yaani na nguvu zote wanazojitapa bado wanataka waislamu waingie kwenye ibada za kikafiri.

Hivi kufuga majini wanakofanya waisalamu na kukemea majini wanakofanya wakristo ni upi ukafir kati ya haya matendo mawili mkuu?

 

[Tanganian]

Hivi kufuga majini wanakofanya waisalamu na kukemea majini wanakofanya wakristo ni upi ukafir kati ya haya matendo mawili mkuu?

We kafiri ,uliona wapi mtu akafuga majini wakati hayo majini kila jumapili yanatolewa kanisani😅😅😅.

Kanisani kuna sanamu la Yesu mnaanguka mapepo nyie makafiri.

 

[Kiranga]

Wametangaza wanaoombea wafu,

Hawajasema wanajifariji, usiwawekee maneno yako,

Kuhusu uwepo wa Mungu la kikatiba Hilo, Anatambulika Mungu

Ni hivi, kuombea wafu ndiyo dini yao.

Ndiyo utamaduni wao.

Katika anthropology, katika sociology, katika philosophy, katika utamaduni, kuna mambo yana layers tofauti, ushaelewa hilo?

Kuna maswali fulani hayana majibu , au majibu yake si mazuri kwetu.

Kuna wapendwa wetu tunatenganishwa nao kwa kifo. Hawa wapendwa wetu tunawapenda sana.

Na kifo kinatutenganisha permanently. Hatutawaona tena. Kwa sababu hakuna Mungu, hakuna mbingu, hakuna moto, hakuna Shetani. Hizo zote ni stories tu watu wametunga kupambana na hali zao.

Mtu akifa, ndiyo imetoka hiyo. Hutamuona tena.

Sasa ukweli huu ni mchungu sana. Kuukubali ni tatizo sana.

Ndiyo maana wengi wanakimbilia katika dini. Kule kuna faraja. Kuna kuambiana kwamba tuwaombee wapendwa wetu hawa, waende mbinguni, tukifa na sisi, tukienda mbinguni, siku moja tutakutana nao mbinguni.

Mtu ana haki ya kuchagua imani yake. Hii ni haki ya kikatiba na kibinadamu. Na akichagua imani yake impe faraja akifiwa, wewe hata kama huamini, hata kama imani yake ni ya uongo, hutakiwi kuleta mjadala wa ki theolojia au kifalsafa katika misa ya msiba ya kumpa faraja mfiwa. Utakuwa mkatili na mjinga. Hujui kitu gani ni sahihi wakati gani.

Yani ukileta hoja ya "imani hii si sahihi" msibani, kanisani, unaweza kuwa na hoja sahihi lakini umeshindwa kujua kuwa huu si wakati sahihi wa kuiweka mbele hoja hii. Uneshindwa kujua kuwa hii si sehemu sahihi. Umeshindwa kujali msoba, utakuwa huna emotional intelligence, cultural intelligence wala empathy.

Hoja hii, hata kama ni sahihi, ina wakati na sehemu yake, lakini si kwenye misa ya msiba kukumbuka na kuombea marehemu kanisani.

Kwa hivyo, mtu aliyeelimika, mtu aliyestaarabika, aliyesoma anthropology, sociology, philosophy, science, ataelewa kuwa haya ni mambo ya utamaduni tu. Mungu hayupo, Shetani hayupo, mbingu haipo, ugufuo haupo, hawa waliokufa washakufa, haya maombi hayawasaidii waliokufa, ni sehemu ya hawa waliobaki kukutana, kufarijiana, kupanga mambo ya maisha. Kuoneshana nani anamjali nani.

Mimi ni mtu nisiyeamini uwepo wa Mungu, lakini wiki mbili zilizopita nilienda kanisani kwenye memorial mass, misa ya kumbukumbu ya maisha ya baba yake rafiki yangu mmoja, amefariki wiki kadhaa zilizopita Tanzania, lakini amefanyiwa misa wiki mbili zilizopita huku Marekani nilipo.

Kwa nini nimeenda kanisani kwenye memorial mass wakati mimi atheist siamini uwapo wa Mungu?

Kwa sababu najua huyu fafiki yangu anaamini sana Mungu, anaamini sana Ukatoliki. Huu ni msiba wake, si msiba wangu, kwa hiyo nilienda kanisani kum support yeye.

Huko nimesikia historia ya baba yake, jinsi baba yake alivyomlea huyu rafiki yangu. Ninepata hata kumjua zaidi rafiki yangu. Rafiki yangu amefarijika sana kuona mimi na wengine wengi tumekuja katika misa ile. Ameona ana jumuiya ya watu wanaomjali. Hili tu, bila kujali kama yale maombi kwa marehemu yanafanya kazi au la, ni jambo muhimu sana.

Nikapiga three piece suit yangu nyeusi na tai, nikafika kanisani, tukasali. Baada ya hapo tukaenda kwenye ukumbi wa kanisa, tukala, tukanywa, tukajumuika marafiki.

Shughuli ilikuwa ni zaidi ya kusalia marehemu. Sisi wenyewe tulikutana. Tukaongea, tukaona watoto wanakua, wengine wanaanza vyuo, tumepiga picha za pamoja, tukaulizana hali nani anafanya nini, tukaoneshana kwamba tunajaliana na mmoja akifiwa, wengine tutakwenda kum support. Walikuja mpaka waislamu kanisani.

Uwepo wa waislamu kanisani kwenye nisa ya kumbukumbu ya marehemu unaonesha kwamba si lazima uwe unaamini imani ya mfiwa kwenye misa ile ili kumpa moral support kama binadamu tu.

Uwepo wangu mimi atheist mtu nisiyeamini Mungu, nisiyeamini ufufuo, nisiyeamini Shetani, nisiyeamini mbingu, nisiyeamini moto, pale kanisani maana yake ni kwamba sihitaji kuamini dini ili kuwapo pale kumpa moral support mfiwa.

Na ningekuwapo Tanzania, ningeenda kwenye misa ya kuwakumbuka waliouawa kuanzia October 29 2025.

Nisingeenda kwa sababu naamini kuwaombea marehemu, la hasha. Mimi siamini katika dhana nzima ya kuomba Mungu, kwa sababu siamini huyo Mungu yupo. Angekuwapo hata hayo mauaji ya October 29 2025 yasingewezekana kufanyika.

Ila, ningeenda kanisani kifalsafa zaidi, kuonesha mshikamano na Watanzania wanaoona kuwakumbuka marehemu hawa ni muhimu, kuonesha kuwa hatujasahau, kuonesha CCM na serikali kuwa hatujapenda walichofanya. Kuonesha kuwa tunajali haki ya kibinadamu ya watu kuishi.

Hayo mambo ya kuombea marehemu ni utamaduni wa kidini tu, lakini misa hizi zina layers za anthropological and sociological meaning, na kama unataka kuwa mtu shallow wa kulazimisha kila kitu kiwe literal, kwamba misa hizi maana yake ni kuombea marehemu, utakuwa umekosa sophistication, umekosa ustaarabu, umekosa kuelewa utamaduni unavyofanya kazi kwa layers tofauti.

Kwani ukisikia kuna msiba kwa jirani yako, lakininyeye ni Muislamu anaamini tofauti na wewe, utashindwa kwenda kumfariji jirani yako kwa sababu ni Muislamu anaamini tofauti na wewe?

If an atheist or a Muslim can go to church for philosoohical reasons, for human rights and solidarity, anyone can.

And you don't need to be literal about it.

That is a sign of a simpleton.

 

[Detective J]

Kundi linaweza kufanya kimpango wao bila ya kukejeli wengine, and vice versa

Linamkejeli nani wakati wanafanyia kanisani? And umekuwa utaratibu wao wa miaka namiaka kuombea wafu?

 

[Tanganian]

Linamkejeli nani wakati wanafanyia kanisani? And umekuwa utaratibu wao wa miaka namiaka kuombea wafu?

We jamaa unatoka usingizini ,bahati mbaya ukiona mgalatia mwenzio kakejeli unaoita kama unaaga maiti .

Kuna uzi wa huyo kafiri tpaul kasome kwanza.

 

[kitalembwa]

Takataka

 

[Kiranga]

Question

What does anthropology, sociology, philosophy, psychology and science say about praying for the dead, memorial masses and such remembrance?

Answer (Meta AI)

Praying for the dead, memorial Masses, anniversaries — almost every human culture does some version of it. Here is what each field says about why we do it and what it does:

1. Anthropology

Anthropology says this is a human universal, not just Catholic.

• Rites of transition: Arnold van Gennep and Victor Turner showed death is not an instant event but a process. The living have to move the dead from "recently alive" to "ancestor" through rituals. Memorial masses are that liminal work.
• Maintaining the social fabric: In many societies (from Japanese Obon to Azande in Africa to Mexican Día de los Muertos), the dead remain social members. Praying for them reaffirms: "you still belong to us, we still belong to each other."
• Reciprocity: Marcel Mauss — we give prayers, the dead give protection/blessing. It is an exchange that keeps a relationship alive.

Anthropology does not ask if the prayer "reaches" them. It asks what it does for the community — and the answer is: it prevents the dead from being forgotten or becoming feared ghosts.

2. Sociology

• Durkheim — collective effervescence: When you gather for a memorial Mass, you are not just remembering an individual. You are rebuilding society itself. The shared ritual reminds everyone of common values: life matters, we care for each other.
• Social continuity: Memorials mark time (7 days, 40 days, 1 year). They give a socially approved schedule for grief, so people are not left alone with loss.
• Status and belonging: Announcing a Mass, putting a name in the bulletin, inviting relatives — it publicly reaffirms family identity and place in the Church/community. For immigrant communities especially, it is a way of keeping lineage visible.

Sociologists find communities that have regular memorial rituals have lower social anomie after deaths.

3. Philosophy

Three major lines:

• Metaphysical: Plato, Aquinas, and most scholastic philosophy argued if the soul survives death, it can still be affected by love and justice. Aquinas: prayer for the dead is an act of charity that presupposes communion beyond death. If you believe in purgatory/purification, intercession makes logical sense.
• Existential: Heidegger, Jankélévitch — remembrance is how we face our own being-towards-death. Remembering the dead is a practice in learning how to die. It forces us to ask: what of me will be remembered? What is worth living for?
• Analytic / Secular: Philosophers like Bertrand Russell or contemporary humanists say prayer for the dead cannot causally help the dead, but can be ethically meaningful as an expression of continuing love and commitment to the values the person stood for. It is a performative act — you make a promise about how you will live.

Philosophy divides on ontology (do the dead exist to be helped?) but agrees on meaning: remembrance is an act of fidelity.

4. Psychology

This is where the strongest evidence for benefit exists.

• Grief work: Freud (Mourning and Melancholia), then modern grief models (Worden, Klass's "continuing bonds" theory). Healthy grief is not about "letting go" and forgetting, but about finding a new continuing bond. Memorial masses give a structured, culturally sanctioned way to maintain that bond.
• Regulation of emotions: Ritual provides predictability, words to say when you have no words, a container for overwhelming feelings. Studies show ritual participation after a death reduces symptoms of complicated grief, anxiety, and PTSD.
• Meaning-making: Neimeyer's research — people who can make sense of loss and continue to feel connected to the deceased adapt better. Prayer is a meaning-making narrative: "Love does not end at death."
• For the bereaved, not the dead: Psychology does not test if the dead hear it; it tests if the living function better. Answer: yes, when the ritual is chosen, communal, and repeated — not when it is forced or used to avoid grief.

Risk: if remembrance becomes only rumination — praying obsessively out of guilt — it can maintain anxiety. The healthy form is remembrance that moves — from pain to gratitude.

5. Science / Neuroscience / Biology

• No empirical mechanism for the prayer to affect a deceased brain — once brain activity ceases, there is no receptor for it. So natural science is agnostic/skeptical about metaphysical efficacy.
• What science can measure is the effect on the living:

- Lower cortisol and heart rate during communal ritual
- Activation of reward/bonding systems (oxytocin) when remembering with others
- Synchronized brain activity in congregational singing/praying — measurable social bonding

- Evolutionary view: Remembering ancestors had survival value. Groups that honored ancestors maintained better knowledge transmission (where not to hunt, what ancestors did) and stronger cooperation.

In short:

• Anthropology: You are doing what humans have always done to keep the community whole.
• Sociology: You are rebuilding society after a tear.
• Philosophy: You are asserting that love is stronger than absence.
• Psychology: You are creating a healthy continuing bond that helps you live.
• Science: It does not prove the dead are helped, but it proves you and your community are helped — physiologically and socially — by doing it together.

That is why the Catholic Church calls a memorial Mass both suffragium (help for the dead) and solacium (comfort for the living) — two sides of the same human act.

 

[Footstep]

Question

What does anthropology, sociology, philosophy, psychology and science say about praying for the dead, memorial masses and such remembrance?

Answer (Meta AI)

Praying for the dead, memorial Masses, anniversaries — almost every human culture does some version of it. Here is what each field says about why we do it and what it does:

1. Anthropology

Anthropology says this is a human universal, not just Catholic.

• Rites of transition: Arnold van Gennep and Victor Turner showed death is not an instant event but a process. The living have to move the dead from "recently alive" to "ancestor" through rituals. Memorial masses are that liminal work.
• Maintaining the social fabric: In many societies (from Japanese Obon to Azande in Africa to Mexican Día de los Muertos), the dead remain social members. Praying for them reaffirms: "you still belong to us, we still belong to each other."
• Reciprocity: Marcel Mauss — we give prayers, the dead give protection/blessing. It is an exchange that keeps a relationship alive.

Anthropology does not ask if the prayer "reaches" them. It asks what it does for the community — and the answer is: it prevents the dead from being forgotten or becoming feared ghosts.

2. Sociology

• Durkheim — collective effervescence: When you gather for a memorial Mass, you are not just remembering an individual. You are rebuilding society itself. The shared ritual reminds everyone of common values: life matters, we care for each other.
• Social continuity: Memorials mark time (7 days, 40 days, 1 year). They give a socially approved schedule for grief, so people are not left alone with loss.
• Status and belonging: Announcing a Mass, putting a name in the bulletin, inviting relatives — it publicly reaffirms family identity and place in the Church/community. For immigrant communities especially, it is a way of keeping lineage visible.

Sociologists find communities that have regular memorial rituals have lower social anomie after deaths.

3. Philosophy

Three major lines:

• Metaphysical: Plato, Aquinas, and most scholastic philosophy argued if the soul survives death, it can still be affected by love and justice. Aquinas: prayer for the dead is an act of charity that presupposes communion beyond death. If you believe in purgatory/purification, intercession makes logical sense.
• Existential: Heidegger, Jankélévitch — remembrance is how we face our own being-towards-death. Remembering the dead is a practice in learning how to die. It forces us to ask: what of me will be remembered? What is worth living for?
• Analytic / Secular: Philosophers like Bertrand Russell or contemporary humanists say prayer for the dead cannot causally help the dead, but can be ethically meaningful as an expression of continuing love and commitment to the values the person stood for. It is a performative act — you make a promise about how you will live.

Philosophy divides on ontology (do the dead exist to be helped?) but agrees on meaning: remembrance is an act of fidelity.

4. Psychology

This is where the strongest evidence for benefit exists.

• Grief work: Freud (Mourning and Melancholia), then modern grief models (Worden, Klass's "continuing bonds" theory). Healthy grief is not about "letting go" and forgetting, but about finding a new continuing bond. Memorial masses give a structured, culturally sanctioned way to maintain that bond.
• Regulation of emotions: Ritual provides predictability, words to say when you have no words, a container for overwhelming feelings. Studies show ritual participation after a death reduces symptoms of complicated grief, anxiety, and PTSD.
• Meaning-making: Neimeyer's research — people who can make sense of loss and continue to feel connected to the deceased adapt better. Prayer is a meaning-making narrative: "Love does not end at death."
• For the bereaved, not the dead: Psychology does not test if the dead hear it; it tests if the living function better. Answer: yes, when the ritual is chosen, communal, and repeated — not when it is forced or used to avoid grief.

Risk: if remembrance becomes only rumination — praying obsessively out of guilt — it can maintain anxiety. The healthy form is remembrance that moves — from pain to gratitude.

5. Science / Neuroscience / Biology

• No empirical mechanism for the prayer to affect a deceased brain — once brain activity ceases, there is no receptor for it. So natural science is agnostic/skeptical about metaphysical efficacy.
• What science can measure is the effect on the living:

- Lower cortisol and heart rate during communal ritual
- Activation of reward/bonding systems (oxytocin) when remembering with others
- Synchronized brain activity in congregational singing/praying — measurable social bonding

- Evolutionary view: Remembering ancestors had survival value. Groups that honored ancestors maintained better knowledge transmission (where not to hunt, what ancestors did) and stronger cooperation.

In short:

• Anthropology: You are doing what humans have always done to keep the community whole.
• Sociology: You are rebuilding society after a tear.
• Philosophy: You are asserting that love is stronger than absence.
• Psychology: You are creating a healthy continuing bond that helps you live.
• Science: It does not prove the dead are helped, but it proves you and your community are helped — physiologically and socially — by doing it together.

That is why the Catholic Church calls a memorial Mass both suffragium (help for the dead) and solacium (comfort for the living) — two sides of the same human act.

Sasa walioua watu Oct 29,walitumwa na shetani kwamba wakiua na kumletea shetani damu, ndipo watatawala vyema,

Hiyo ni mmoja ya ibada ya wafu,

Sasa hii ikome mara moja

 

[Durovic]

Waulize wanaoombea wafu wanatumia kifungu kipi ndani ya Neno la Mungu?


Sasa kama Neno la Mungu ndio katiba, na haijaelekeza Hilo,

Ndipo mimi nainuka kupingana nao,

Waombe Kwa usahihi.

Wewe kama nani unafundisha watu kusali ? Usiingilie imani za watu sisi tutaendelea kuombea roho za marehemu zipumzike mahala pema peponi miili yao ilitolewa uhai ila roho zao zipo na tunaziombea Muumba azipumzishe pahala pema bila kuomba hujui vita vya kiroho wewe!

 

[Lwiva]

Hello!

Naomba nieleweke wazi kuwa, mimi binafsi nalaani vikali kitendo cha kuua watu Kwa risasi za moto Kwa sababu za kijinga kwamba unalinda mali za unaowaua,ambapo ilikuwa inawezekana kuzuia hayo yasitokee Kwa kusikiliza hoja zao na kuzifanyia kazi.

Sasa twende kwenye mada, wafu hawaombewi, kuombea wafu ni ibada ya shetani Kwa sababu Mungu ni Mungu wa walio hai na si wa wafu, hivyo usiende kuombea wafu.

Ikitokea umehudhuria ibada hiyo, badili maombi, wewe omba mwenyezi Mungu airehemu Tanzania, asikie sauti ya damu iliyomwagika bila hatia na kulipa kisasi Kwa wahusika Kwa maana imeandikwa, auaye Kwa upanga, naye atauwawa Kwa huo.

Ikumbukwe pia kuwa kanisa Hilo Lina mtandao mpana wenye matawi mengi kuliko chama tawala hivyo maombi haya yatajibiwa haraka ikiwa wataomba Kwa usahihi.

Aamen

Jagina adriz ..kuna kafiri huku anakataza kumswalia mfu mtume mudi boy