Suala la Mkaguzi Mkuu wa Hesabu za Serikali (CAG) na Vipengele kadhaa vya Kisheria


That I may agree with.

Ila kwa wale walioleta mambo ya shall be eligible kuwa kwamba ni lazima na hakuna jinsi, sikubaliani nao.

Shall be eligible for renewal doesn’t mean shall be renewed. Period.
 
Mkuu Kiranga,hapa umeonyesha uungwana wa hali ya juu. Pongezi kwako.
 
Sikubaliani na lugha iliyotumika kwenye hiyo sec 3.

Haipo definitive. Hakuna haja ya kuandika shall be eligible.

Andika tu ‘shall be renewed’ na hakuna ubishi.

umeona maneno "... and any decision not to renew his service shall follow the same procedure as that contained in article 144(3) of the constitution..."

Umeiona hiyo part?
 
umeona maneno "... and any decision not to renew his service shall follow the same procedure as that contained in article 144(3) of the constitution..."

Umeiona hiyo part?

Nimeona.

Sina tatizo na hiyo lugha hapo.

Mimi tatizo langu lilikuwa ni kwenye ‘shall be eligible’.

Hilo umekubali kuwa si ishu na kwamba hiyo lugha hailazimishi uteuzi tena.

Kama Magufuli hakufuata taratibu, basi kakosea.
 
That I may agree with.

Ila kwa wale walioleta mambo ya shall be eligible kuwa kwamba ni lazima na hakuna jinsi, sikubaliani nao.

Shall be eligible for renewal doesn’t mean shall be renewed. Period.

yah you are right

Mimi na Kiranga huko mwanzoni tulikuwa na mawazo kama yako kabisa kuhusiana na issue ya "shall be eligible". kwamba that is a non issue at all

Ila tukabadiri mawazo kuhusu uhalali wa uteuzi mpya baada ya kuona kifungu cha sheria kinachosema kuwa kama Raisi hataki kumuongezea CAG mkataba wa miaka mingine mitano basi lazima afuate ibara ya 144(3) yenye masharti magumu ya kumtoa CAG
 
Ila kuna vifungu vingine vya katiba vinavyomtaka Magufuli kuunda impeachment tribunal ili kumuondoa CAG ambaye hajafikisha umri wa kuondoka na wala hana maradhi ya kumfanya asiweze kazi yake.

Hivyo ndivyo vifungu vya katiba alivyovunja Magufuli.
Magufuli hajavunja kifungu chochote cha katiba.

Wanachoshindwa kuelewa watu wengi ni gist ya Ibara ya 144, ambayo lengo lake ni kuweka utaratibu wa kumuondoa CAG ndani ya muda wake alioteuliwa wa miaka mitano.

Katiba linapokuja swal la tenure of office of CAG ipo silent.

Office of CAG ni zao la sheria ya Bunge ambayo ni THE PUBLIC AUDIT ACT,2008, hii ndio imeestablish office of CAG baada ya Constitution kuitambua, hivyo basi kwakua kuna parent ACT inayo establish hiyo office linapokuja swala la tenure ya office of CAG lazima turely na provisions za hiyo parent act.

Sasa parent act kwa office ya CAG imeset time limit ya five years na renewal of another one term only , hivyo kama akifaninkiwa kuwa na term nyingine hapaswi kuzidi ten years,

Kama kusudio la sheria ni kwa CAG Kuserve kwa muda wa miaka kumi ilishindikana nini kusema hivyo katika hicho kipengele. Ili kuondoa utata sheria imgesema wazi kabisa kuwa tenure yake ni two terms of five years each,lkini sheria haijasema hivyo, kilichopo ni fixed period of five years .

Wnachoshn dwa kuelewa hapa hawa watu ni kuwa CAG was not removed from office, his tenure expired thus he was replaced.

Linapokuja swala la replacement sasa huko Ibara ya 144 haihusiki, ila kamma ni rem oval basi section 7 y Public Audit Act, na Ibara ya 144 vinahusika.
 
Mkuu wazo kuu asante ila nina swali kidogo. Unaposema hata BILA uchunguzi Rais anaweza kumuondoa CAG tueleweshane kidogo. Kifungu cha sheria hapo juu kinasema "and shall not be so removed except in accordance with the provisions of sub-article 4 of this article. Huoni hapo rais analazimishwa kufata taratibu za sub-article 4. Tueleweshane tafadhali
 
yah you are right

Mimi na Kiranga huko mwanzoni tulikuwa na mawazo kama yako kabisa kuhusiana na issue ya "shall be eligible".

Pamoja na hizo taarifa ‘mpya’, msimamo wangu kuhusu ‘shall be eligible for renewal’ haujabadilika.

Shall be eligible for renewal siyo sawa na shall be renewed.

Walioleta hapa hicho kipengele hawakuelewa maana yake.

Kwa hiyo hapo bado nasimamia kuwa nipo sahihi.

Ila tukabadiri mawazo baada ya kuona kifungu cha sheria kinachosema kuwa kama Raisi hataki kumuongezea CAG mkataba wa miaka mingine mitano basi lazima afuate ibara ya 144(3) yenye masharti magumu ya kumtoa CAG

Kama Rais hakufuata utaratibu kama inavyotakiwa, basi atakuwa kakiuka sheria.

Mwanzoni watu walitumia zaidi hisia na ndo maana wakaleta vifungu ambavyo sivyo, kama hicho cha shall be eligible nk.

Lakini pia, je, tunajua kwa uhakika kuwa rais hajafuata utaratibu unaotakiwa au tunasadiki tu?

Ni nini kinachofanya watu waseme kuwa rais hajafuata utaratibu unaotakiwa?
 
Mkuu JITEGEMEE, ndo nimepitia baada ya wewe kuniwekea hiyo post lakini kama zilivyo posts zingine, naona mkazo umewekwa kwenye neno SHALL!

Hapa ningependa kurudia tena na tena... hakuna anayetafsiri matumizi ya neno SHALL bali neno hilo limetafsiriwa na LAW INTERPRETATION ACT Ibara ya 53(2) kwamba:-
Where in a written law the word "shall" is used in conferring a function, such word shall be interpreted to mean that the function so conferred must be performed.
Sasa haya madai yenu ya mara kwa mara kwamba "tafsiri yetu" mnayatoa wapi?!

Maelezo yangu YOOOTE yamejikita kwa kuangalia vifungu vya sheria yetu wenyewe, na wala sikufanya reference kama vile inavyosema Translegal kwamba:-
(MODAL VERB) when drafting a legal document, the term shall is used to indicate that something must be done, as opposed to the term may which simply means that something is allowed (ie that it can be done, but does not have to be done)

Au kama wanavyosema USLEGAL kwamba:-Shall Law and Legal Definition:-
The word ‘Shall’ has the following meanings: An imperative command; has a duty to or is required to. For example, the notice shall be sent within 30 days. Usually ‘shall’ used here is in the mandatory sense.


Pasipo na interpretation ya kisheria ya neno SHALL always panaleta mkanganyiko lakini sisi tayari tunayo interpretation! Ni kutokana na huo mkanganyiko, ndo maana hata katika sheria za Marekani na nchi zingine wana-drop hilo neno SHALL kwa sababu ni confusing!

Wakati kwenye law schools inafundishwa SHALL ni SHURUTI, kwenye matumizi ya kawaida SHALL sio shuruti! Ni kutokana na huo mkanganyiko ndio maana wenzetu wana-replace neno SHALL na MUST lakini sisi hatujafanya hivyo, na kwahiyo inabaki kama tafsiri yetu kisheria inavyosema kwamba:-
Where in a written law the word "shall" is used in conferring a function, such word shall be interpreted to mean that the function so conferred must be performed.
Kama sio SHURUTI, our Interpretation Law Act Ibara ya 53(1) inakuambia neno linalotumika ni MAY:-
Where in a written law the word "may" is used in conferring a power, such word shall be interpreted to imply that the power so conferred may be exercised or not, at discretion.



AGAIN, hiyo sio "tafsiri yetu" bali ndiyo tafsiri ya kisheria!
 

Halafu, ni kweli Rais hajafuata taratibu au tunasadiki tu kuwa hajafuata taratibu?
 
Mjadala mtamu sana,nimejifunza kitu humu kuwa Watanzania wengi ( hapa naomba niongeze msisitizo "wengi wanaoonekana kuwa ni wasomi" si watu wanaopenda kusoma mara mbili mbili na kuelewa kile walichokisoma) .
Watu wanakurupuka sana.
 
Chige mhenga mwenzangu hongera kwa kusimamia unachokiamini kuwa ni sahihi na kutupa darasa. Kiranga, Nyani Ngabu na wengineo nao pia nawapa heko kwa kutoa somo.
Hii ndio JF ya "Jambo Forum" ninayoikosa.
 

Kwenye "Shall be eligible for renewal" kweli watu walifuata hisia, na nilipambana nao sana humu kuhusiana na hilo kwamba ni kutokana na wao kutoelewa lugha, maana Shall be Eligible inamaanisha Shall be Considered but kuwa Considered haimaanishi It must be you who get a job

lakini baadae nilipoona subsection 3 ya sheria inayosema "....kama hata renew mkataba wake basi sababu za kutorenew zifuate process ya ibara ya 144(3)", then nikatambua sasa kama alivyotambua profesa Shivji kuwa kama hakuna sababu za kumuondoa CAG kwa mujibu wa ibara 1443(3) basi Sheria inataka CAG atumikie mihula miwili.

KWA HIYO JPM amevunja Sheria, Uteuzi wake ni batili ila kwa Mujibu wa Udikteta atafanya naye kazi lakini kwa mujibu wa Sheria huyo CAG mpya ni Feki
 
Mkuu amevunja Katiba ya nchi na pia subsection 3 ya Public Audit Act 2008.Hili halina ubishi.Inasikitisha sana yaani kuona Sheria ya nchi inavunjwa kwa mambo nyeti kama haya.Huwa sina kawaida ya kumjadili Rais negatively,hata akifanya mambo yasiyonifurahisha i opt to keep quiet but hili la kuvunja Katiba hapana.Hatuwezi kulikalia kimya.Ni hatari na anajenga bad precedence.Taifa la watu milioni zaidi ya 50 tukijenga utamaduni wa kutothamini sheria za nchi,then kuna nchi tena hapo?Im dissapointed by him this time.Let me just log off.
 
Halafu, ni kweli Rais hajafuata taratibu au tunasadiki tu kuwa hajafuata taratibu?
Rais amefuata taratibu;

Maamuzi yake yametokana na tafsiri sahihi ya sheria.

Kwakuwa kaongozwa na sheria katika kufanya maamuzi, ni sahihi kusema kuwa amefuata taratibu.
 

Kama sheria inataka CAG atumikie mihula miwili, kwa nini isiseme tu moja kwa moja kuwa hivyo ndivyo itavyokuwa?

Kwanza, kwa nini kuwepo hata na mihula miwili?

Kwa nini term isiwe fixed for 10years?

Sikubaliani na tafsiri ya Shivji.

And yes, I can disagree with him.
 
Mkuu siyo ishu ya Assad kwenda mahakamani. Ni issue ya kwamba tuna Rais mvunja katiba
 
Hakuna Subsection 3 ya section 6 of the Public Audit Act,2008.
 
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